Fam Last Night...

[Silvio Dante]

At Griffin Park last night, I had the unusual experience of being behind the goal (don’t get to too many away and seats are in Dolman). What that did was give a really good view of Famara second half, and to try and get a perspective on why he doesn’t seem to fit currently (note, I know I’m not his biggest fan).

First things first. The chance from the KP through ball just after HT. If you watch Fams run, it’s scattergun. It could be argued he’s taking defenders away but it more looked as if he didn’t know what run to make as he’s in, out, and across in a lot of movement. When the ball came it was in his path but only because he’d arrived there rather than making a specific run (see difference with Afobe pointing). That’s why he didn’t collect, it was because the ball for want of a better term hit him, as opposed to hitting his stride through the run intent.

Next, the positioning from GK/Balls from the back. You could see exactly when Fam was going to win the ball - he got in position early, set himself and ran maybe 4-5 yards towards the ball. When he wasn’t in position early, he didn’t react quickly enough to the ball out to win it. He probably won 50% of balls out from the back, but only when he was set early first.

General work rate - I don’t subscribe to the theory Fam didn’t work last night. I think he did, but the problem was he didn’t anticipate so when we had the ball, he looked off the pace. Plus, anyone would look bad compared to Weimanns work rate.

What all the above says to me is that the main problem Fam has is his anticipation - his game awareness if you like. Give him a set scenario and he’s fine. Ask him to play instinctively, and he struggles. What’s happening is we now have intelligent, probing, fast moving players in midfield (the tempo of Brownhill/Palmer/Massengo is way quicker than Brownhill/Pato/Pack where the latter two played quite deliberately and Fam had more opportunity to “set”). It’s difficult to see how his speed of thought can catch up with KP etc and that’s why he’s not been first choice after Benik got injured - it’s the impact on the rest of the team and the speed of thought we look to play at. He looks worse because of that but he’s not actually playing worse than prior.

I think he’s got a role this season - but even with Benik injured, I find it hard to envisage anything other than impact sub in view of the above,

[spudski]

Think you are spot on in your assessment. He lacks speed of thought and anticipation. Which then translates to his body reaction. He's never on his toes...flat footed and often in the wrong body shape to receive or run into.

This is why as you point out, the ball hits him more often than not, and he struggles to control the ball.

At his age it should be ingrained. Technically he's poor...and at this level you need that speed of mind and technical ability to gain advantage.

Love the lads desire, but imo he's also a player that needs to feel wanted and loved to even perform anywhere near what we need.

Since Afobe and Semenyo starting he looks even a shadow of himself...

My gut instinct is that he will be moved on. And maybe he feels this too...who knows.

He's had long enough to know how we play...he just doesn't fit imo.

[mozo]

The thing that confuses me is that every now and then he'll take a sublime touch and look the part, then his next touch might be to mis-place a pass in a vital moment of an attack, or to mis-time a run. Enigma. In a bad way.

[KingLear]

Yeah probably agree with most of that, you can't fault the guys effort, always puts in 100% but lacks that bit of quality to be top class at this level.

To give him credit though, his run towards the near post for Hunt's cross for the equaliser did draw 2 defenders away and left the space for Weimann to score.

There is a lot of work he puts in that does go unnoticed as of course people are looking for their strikers to score goals at the end of the day.

I do like Fam, and I still think he's a useful commodity to have in the squad, but do wonder if there will be a place for him here when (if) we bring another striker in.

[Victory Park Reds]

When he first signed I anticipated this quick agile striker .

I can remember his first game and have never been so unwhelmed by a performance especially after the massive fee.( not his fault).

Everyone seemed to have run / press /look busy / track back etc however I don’t think that’s part of his game.I just think we’ve bought the wrong player.

I can’t see us getting the fee back for him if we sell him which looks increasingly likely in the recent team lineups.

sorry fam fans buts that’s my opinion.big Wayne Allison all day long for me despite his size 15’s.

[Guest]

His best performances have been away from home when we have had less possession than what we did at home last season. He was a right nuisance, and Weimann and O'Dowda benefitted on the flanks with Diedhiou occupying defenders.

But the way we play now is we need more than that up top. We need movement, pace, technique. But we do also need a bit of that power and strength to cope. Afobe was absolutely perfect. It is very hard to find that striker to partner Weimann, as they need a number of attributes. Semenyo looks like he will be that player at some point - I am hoping it's now.

I would wait and see till January if Fam can do better, or if we can find a way of getting the best out of him.

I think it should suit him more in our current 352, than it does 442, but probably needs more of a runner than Palmer in behind him. A Szmodics or O'Dowda running with Weimann off of Fam in this 352 may work. But he isn't what suits LJ's ideal game plan. We really want to pass the ball to feet, and pass the ball in behind to run onto. 

Palmer in behind Fam has never looked right. Fam needs a runner which Palmer isn't. Palmer needs a technically much better striker ahead of him, with much better movement. Same problem I found with Pato in same side as Fam, they just don't work well in the same side.

Not sure what kind of bid would get Fam. 4 million? I was hoping to make a profit on him but I can't see that happening if he isn't performing.

[downendcity]

56 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

At Griffin Park last night, I had the unusual experience of being behind the goal (don’t get to too many away and seats are in Dolman). What that did was give a really good view of Famara second half, and to try and get a perspective on why he doesn’t seem to fit currently (note, I know I’m not his biggest fan).

First things first. The chance from the KP through ball just after HT. If you watch Fams run, it’s scattergun. It could be argued he’s taking defenders away but it more looked as if he didn’t know what run to make as he’s in, out, and across in a lot of movement. When the ball came it was in his path but only because he’d arrived there rather than making a specific run (see difference with Afobe pointing). That’s why he didn’t collect, it was because the ball for want of a better term hit him, as opposed to hitting his stride through the run intent.

Next, the positioning from GK/Balls from the back. You could see exactly when Fam was going to win the ball - he got in position early, set himself and ran maybe 4-5 yards towards the ball. When he wasn’t in position early, he didn’t react quickly enough to the ball out to win it. He probably won 50% of balls out from the back, but only when he was set early first.

General work rate - I don’t subscribe to the theory Fam didn’t work last night. I think he did, but the problem was he didn’t anticipate so when we had the ball, he looked off the pace. Plus, anyone would look bad compared to Weimanns work rate.

What all the above says to me is that the main problem Fam has is his anticipation - his game awareness if you like. Give him a set scenario and he’s fine. Ask him to play instinctively, and he struggles. What’s happening is we now have intelligent, probing, fast moving players in midfield (the tempo of Brownhill/Palmer/Massengo is way quicker than Brownhill/Pato/Pack where the latter two played quite deliberately and Fam had more opportunity to “set”). It’s difficult to see how his speed of thought can catch up with KP etc and that’s why he’s not been first choice after Benik got injured - it’s the impact on the rest of the team and the speed of thought we look to play at. He looks worse because of that but he’s not actually playing worse than prior.

I think he’s got a role this season - but even with Benik injured, I find it hard to envisage anything other than impact sub in view of the above,

Excellent analysis!

Didn't they used to say of Teddy Sherringham that while he might not have been the quickest across the ground, he made up for it because he made the first 5 yards in his head.

Famara tends to be the reverse.

[pillred]

1 hour ago, Silvio Dante said:

At Griffin Park last night, I had the unusual experience of being behind the goal (don’t get to too many away and seats are in Dolman). What that did was give a really good view of Famara second half, and to try and get a perspective on why he doesn’t seem to fit currently (note, I know I’m not his biggest fan).

First things first. The chance from the KP through ball just after HT. If you watch Fams run, it’s scattergun. It could be argued he’s taking defenders away but it more looked as if he didn’t know what run to make as he’s in, out, and across in a lot of movement. When the ball came it was in his path but only because he’d arrived there rather than making a specific run (see difference with Afobe pointing). That’s why he didn’t collect, it was because the ball for want of a better term hit him, as opposed to hitting his stride through the run intent.

Next, the positioning from GK/Balls from the back. You could see exactly when Fam was going to win the ball - he got in position early, set himself and ran maybe 4-5 yards towards the ball. When he wasn’t in position early, he didn’t react quickly enough to the ball out to win it. He probably won 50% of balls out from the back, but only when he was set early first.

General work rate - I don’t subscribe to the theory Fam didn’t work last night. I think he did, but the problem was he didn’t anticipate so when we had the ball, he looked off the pace. Plus, anyone would look bad compared to Weimanns work rate.

What all the above says to me is that the main problem Fam has is his anticipation - his game awareness if you like. Give him a set scenario and he’s fine. Ask him to play instinctively, and he struggles. What’s happening is we now have intelligent, probing, fast moving players in midfield (the tempo of Brownhill/Palmer/Massengo is way quicker than Brownhill/Pato/Pack where the latter two played quite deliberately and Fam had more opportunity to “set”). It’s difficult to see how his speed of thought can catch up with KP etc and that’s why he’s not been first choice after Benik got injured - it’s the impact on the rest of the team and the speed of thought we look to play at. He looks worse because of that but he’s not actually playing worse than prior.

I think he’s got a role this season - but even with Benik injured, I find it hard to envisage anything other than impact sub in view of the above,

In other words a bit of a waste of £5.3 million pounds?

[downendcity]

5 minutes ago, pillred said:

In other words a bit of a waste of £5.3 million pounds?

Don't think so.

Our main striker for a couple of seasons with a goals per game ratio up there with Assombalonga's, so perhaps it is Assombalonga who is a waste of his transfer fee and huge wages.

[pillred]

2 minutes ago, downendcity said:

Don't think so.

Our main striker for a couple of seasons with a goals per game ratio up there with Assombalonga's, so perhaps it is Assombalonga who is a waste of his transfer fee and huge wages.

Or maybe both of them I think famaras OK but and I know 5.3 million is not much these days blah! blah! but weren't you like me expecting just a bit more I know I was, yes he's scored a few but me I'm still a bit underwhelmed if I'm honest.

[OneTeamInBristol]

12 minutes ago, pillred said:

In other words a bit of a waste of £5.3 million pounds?

Oh dear oh dear

[pillred]

6 minutes ago, OneTeamInBristol said:

Oh dear oh dear

Think he was dear, but dear oh dear is going a bit far don't you think?

[Out of his pie crust]

1 hour ago, mozo said:

The thing that confuses me is that every now and then he'll take a sublime touch and look the part, then his next touch might be to mis-place a pass in a vital moment of an attack, or to mis-time a run. Enigma. In a bad way.

But that’s the thing about classy players....they do the sublime or near to sublime consistently. I’ve trapped the odd 50yd high ball stone dead, but couldn’t do it more than 1 out of ten if I’m lucky. That’s how I see fam...generally good effort and fairly decent goals ratio but not the level of consistent technical ability we need for a starting centre forward.

[OneTeamInBristol]

3 minutes ago, pillred said:

Think he was dear, but dear oh dear is going a bit far don't you think?

30 goal contributions in 73 games before this season says otherwise  

[Silvio Dante]

19 minutes ago, pillred said:

In other words a bit of a waste of £5.3 million pounds?

I wouldn’t say that. 

The fact is, that’s what £5.3m gets you these days. And in the right system, he’s ok at this level - he’s just not right for how we play and probably not top six standard.

If I look at other strikers at this level, Fam is very much mid table for his fee/anticipated fee, and that’s what he is - mid table at this level, but that being dependent on the system.

Not a waste of money. Probably below hopes/expectations (particularly as he’s not really progressed since being here) overall but that’s overly harsh

[pillred]

3 minutes ago, OneTeamInBristol said:

30 goal contributions in 73 games before this season says otherwise  

Think you're in a bit of a minority on here, most seem to be like me he's OK and no more.

[77 punk]

30 in 73 is very good for 5 million until we spend a higher amount this is where we are

[pillred]

2 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

I wouldn’t say that. 

The fact is, that’s what £5.3m gets you these days. And in the right system, he’s ok at this level - he’s just not right for how we play and probably not top six standard.

If I look at other strikers at this level, Fam is very much mid table for his fee/anticipated fee, and that’s what he is - mid table at this level, but that being dependent on the system.

Not a waste of money. Probably below hopes/expectations (particularly as he’s not really progressed since being here) overall but that’s overly harsh

I said A bit of a waste, meaning not a total waste of money but slightly disappointing that's all.

[OneTeamInBristol]

2 minutes ago, pillred said:

Think you're in a bit of a minority on here, most seem to be like me he's OK and no more.

I think he’s good value. You think he’s a waste of £5.3 million. Very good return for that fee

[pillred]

1 minute ago, OneTeamInBristol said:

I think he’s good value. You think he’s a waste of £5.3 million. Very good return for that fee

Just expected a bit more that's all, not a total waste but we probably wont get our money back and that's a disappointment.

[LondonBristolian]

1 hour ago, mozo said:

The thing that confuses me is that every now and then he'll take a sublime touch and look the part, then his next touch might be to mis-place a pass in a vital moment of an attack, or to mis-time a run. Enigma. In a bad way.

I think this ties in with the idea that it is about instinct and speed of thought, rather than ability. Hence him being caught out and suddenly panic reacting to something he did not expect to happen.

4 minutes ago, 77 punk said:

30 in 73 is very good for 5 million until we spend a higher amount this is where we are

Exactly. I agree with @spudski that it may be time for him to move on and I think, even as an impact striker, he just does not work within the team. But I think his scoring record is solid and, over the previous two seasons, there have been times where he has been utterly crucial. We would not have got our two top half finishes in the past two seasons without him and we would not have signed the players we have now signed had we not achieved those finishes and looked like a club on the up.

I'd see him a successful signing we have now outgrown. But I think he is a very good player but one that doesn't fit our style anymore. I'd back him to do well elsewhere and hope he does so. 

[LondonBristolian]

3 minutes ago, pillred said:

Just expected a bit more that's all, not a total waste but we probably wont get our money back and that's a disappointment.

I think we have and we will. We might not directly make a profit if we sell him - though it would not sell me - but, as I say above, I think he has helped grow the club and, through the players we now attract and the increase in profile, we're probably financially better off by having had him here. 

[pillred]

2 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

I think we have and we will. We might not directly make a profit if we sell him - though it would not sell me - but, as I say above, I think he has helped grow the club and, through the players we now attract and the increase in profile, we're probably financially better off by having had him here. 

Fair enough, but not many on here would swap him for Afobe, and he would probably cost us a lot less than £5.3 million, see where your coming from though and mostly agree.

[mozo]

It's normally after threads like this that Fam bags a brace...

[Olé]

1 hour ago, mozo said:

The thing that confuses me is that every now and then he'll take a sublime touch and look the part, then his next touch might be to mis-place a pass in a vital moment of an attack, or to mis-time a run. Enigma. In a bad way.

I thought yesterday he was largely poor but it was a microcosm of the issues expressed in this thread - he had one or two excellent touches, but only when dropped deep in midfield where he had time and the game slows down for him to read. Ball into the front and he struggles, as illustrated by the OP in relation to the gorgeous through ball by Kasey Palmer early in the second half.

He was never a target man in France, he was played the ball in space and went at defenders (and not always particularly organised ones). As well as being our best striker on the end of crosses, I believe he can be similarly dangerous once he has the ball and gets his head up in space in and around the box - unfortunately this is a luxury rarely afforded these days in the Championship.

However he is due some mitigating circumstances - while Semenyo is a young player and not a £5m one, it's telling that he isn't faring any better and in the last two games at least, seems to have a similar desire to drop deeper for simpler balls to feet, rather than offer any threat or play genuinely off the last man. If he'd stayed on I doubt he'd have even got near the Palmer through ball.

As such I'm going to reserve a little judgement here. Yes Fam's not Afobe and we miss Afobe's style of football (as I've said before: we get it - this shouldn't in of itself malign Famara), but until I see anyone playing a convincing role leading the line and/or playing off the last man in this setup, I will wait to write off Diedhiou, as we don't have any obviously better options in my opinion.

[swanker]

10 minutes ago, pillred said:

Fair enough, but not many on here would swap him for Afobe, and he would probably cost us a lot less than £5.3 million, see where your coming from though and mostly agree.

Not many on here were that impressed when we signed Afobe or Williams. Also quite a  few wanted Johnson gone not that long ago  

 

[Major Isewater]

1 hour ago, Victory Park Reds said:

When he first signed I anticipated this quick agile striker .

I can remember his first game and have never been so unwhelmed by a performance especially after the massive fee.( not his fault).

Everyone seemed to have run / press /look busy / track back etc however I don’t think that’s part of his game.I just think we’ve bought the wrong player.

I can’t see us getting the fee back for him if we sell him which looks increasingly likely in the recent team lineups.

sorry fam fans buts that’s my opinion.big Wayne Allison all day long for me despite his size 15’s.

Don’t knock The Chief . 

Their style of play is similar and Allison wasn’t pretty to watch but he had a decent return . 

I feel a bit sorry for Famara , it’s as if we’ve passed him by in our playing style and his gone from King to ‘ exile’ in two seasons.

He needs to fight and make the most of his time here before he moves on .

I like the bloke and wish him well .

 

[IAmNick]

Interesting analysis, and pretty accurate I'd say.

To the person above who said we could get Afobe for less - maybe. But lets not forget, he moved for around £12m less than a year ago, and is now (unfortunately) out for the rest of the season. A players injury record is part of their worth, as unfair as that may be on a personal level. Who would you rather have at the club right now?

Fam has been a great servant to the club. I think the fundamental issue is that as a club we've moved on since he joined in 2017, and he hasn't much. For us, and with the quality around him, mid table championship standard at best is no longer good enough. Look at the signings we've made this summer - no longer are we signing lower championship quality players, hoping they develop into mid or perhaps top ones. We're now, for the most part (Kalas, Dasilva, Massengo, Nagy, Bentley) signing mid/upper level championship players who have the potential to become lower/mid table premiership ones. That's an absolutely massive leap, and I think the players we don't think have this potential (Pack, Paterson) as good as they have been are now being moved on... and I think Famara probably fits into that category. I suspect you could even put Mo Eisa into that category - My guess is the club think he may develop into a lower/mid championship player at best, which is now below our acceptable standard.

He's a solid championship player, no frills, and will probably get you 10-15 goals a season which is no mean feat - but at the moment, as a club we want better. He now has better quality around him, and that's making his deficiencies are more obvious.

[Davefevs]

2 hours ago, spudski said:

Think you are spot on in your assessment. He lacks speed of thought and anticipation. Which then translates to his body reaction. He's never on his toes...flat footed and often in the wrong body shape to receive or run into.

This is why as you point out, the ball hits him more often than not, and he struggles to control the ball.

At his age it should be ingrained. Technically he's poor...and at this level you need that speed of mind and technical ability to gain advantage.

Love the lads desire, but imo he's also a player that needs to feel wanted and loved to even perform anywhere near what we need.

Since Afobe and Semenyo starting he looks even a shadow of himself...

My gut instinct is that he will be moved on. And maybe he feels this too...who knows.

He's had long enough to know how we play...he just doesn't fit imo.

Good starting post @Silvio Dante firstly.

I do get the bit about not anticipating, flat-footed, but of late I’ve not seen the desire, certainly not last night when given 45 minutes to stake a claim for a start on Saturday.  I want to see him at full-tilt.  When he does he can be a fearsome sight for his opponent.  I thought he went through the motions last night.  I’m not giving up on him though.

2 hours ago, mozo said:

The thing that confuses me is that every now and then he'll take a sublime touch and look the part, then his next touch might be to mis-place a pass in a vital moment of an attack, or to mis-time a run. Enigma. In a bad way.

Yes, he has that in his locker.

I do wonder whether he needs a big man alongside him, he doesn’t really enjoy the physical battle and does have good feet at times, e.g. when he cuts in from left side.  He doesn’t suit Weimann nor Palmer....that is a problem, because generally they are our main forward options.

 

[LondonBristolian]

7 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Good starting post @Silvio Dante firstly.

I do get the bit about not anticipating, flat-footed, but of late I’ve not seen the desire, certainly not last night when given 45 minutes to stake a claim for a start on Saturday.  I want to see him at full-tilt.  When he does he can be a fearsome sight for his opponent.  I thought he went through the motions last night.  I’m not giving up on him though.

Yes, he has that in his locker.

I do wonder whether he needs a big man alongside him, he doesn’t really enjoy the physical battle and does have good feet at times, e.g. when he cuts in from left side.  He doesn’t suit Weimann nor Palmer....that is a problem, because generally they are our main forward options.

 

I think you touch on two things on here which are important. Firstly, despite his size, I think a huge issue is that he works best as a support striker and a huge part of the problem is that Weimann and Palmer both want to do that too, and suit our system better. I think he is regularly judged on doing something that is not his natural game.

Secondly, I think his confidence is shot at the moment. I get why that comes across as not having the desire, and in some ways both are effectively the same thing. At the moment he strikes me as someone who is self-conscious whenever he is on the pitch and does not want to get it wrong so does nothing at all. I feel for the guy but it does not change the fact we need someone to deliver on the pitch.