Guest Posted October 6, 2019 Report Share Posted October 6, 2019 4 hours ago, Davefevs said: You’ve said this quite a bit recently. I thought first half today him and Callum worked our left side well. Heres a few charts. We are not the possession side of last season. However, today we made more successful passes in the first half (289) than the whole of Brentford and PNE. We made just 109 in second half today. I think he does alright. He’s not expansive, but today he was also LB rather than LWB - something go bear in mind. And I haven’t included goals, v Brum and Boro (yes he’d moved into midfield) and penalty v Hull. He has a desire to get forward...when it’s right to do so. If he does get forward then he isn't doing a lot when he is forward. I'd like to know how many crosses he puts in in open play. I think the modern full back should really be getting very high up the pitch. Certainly with the way we play. I compare him to Dasilva who we often see right high up on the touchline whilst the ball is on the right waiting for a switch in play. We don't really see Rowe doing that. Of course we do see Rowe high up when the ball has been in and around the opponents box for a while, giving him the time to join in with the attack. For me when O'Dowda moved to left back against Boro he did far more in that short time going forward and was solid defensively. Boro even stopped targeting our left side after that change was made. We don't look so dangerous going forward without Afobe, but I'm also looking at any other areas that can be improved to give us more of an attacking threat. For me Rowe's best performance as far as what he offered the team was when he moved to centre back in a 3 and O'Dowda was left wing back. Swansea I think? He is surprisingly strong, and was winning headers, much better on the ball than Baker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northern Red Posted October 6, 2019 Report Share Posted October 6, 2019 9 hours ago, cityexile said: Just to throw this in to the mix, is the idea we are getting Paterson back in Jan? Quite a few Derby fans seemed to think he was just cover until Rooney arrives, although posts on their forum seem imply he is doing pretty well. If he does come back then he can't go anywhere else as he'd already played for us this season before he left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanterne Rouge Posted October 6, 2019 Report Share Posted October 6, 2019 11 hours ago, cityexile said: Just to throw this in to the mix, is the idea we are getting Paterson back in Jan? Quite a few Derby fans seemed to think he was just cover until Rooney arrives, although posts on their forum seem imply he is doing pretty well. 11 hours ago, BobBobSuperBob said: Watched him for a spell midweek He looked lively and played well tbf And depending on Lawrence and his upcoming court case he may get a lot more game time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Cyril Posted October 6, 2019 Report Share Posted October 6, 2019 13 hours ago, Sir Geoff said: I'd give Massengo a rest. He was neat and tidy today but I didn't think he had his usual energy in closing down and snapping at ankles. 3 games in a week plus travel may just be taking a toll. What is it with the youth of today? When I was a teen, I would happily play football in the street 7 days a week and still have the energy to peruse my extensive collection of grot mags. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted October 6, 2019 Report Share Posted October 6, 2019 4 hours ago, JonDolman said: If he does get forward then he isn't doing a lot when he is forward. I'd like to know how many crosses he puts in in open play. are you expecting him to go past men and get to the bye-line? If so that’s not his game. It’s about moving players around, creating the spaces for others. He’ll get in the box if he can. First half yesterday his link up with O’Dowda was good without him needing to risk over-committing himself. I think the modern full back should really be getting very high up the pitch. Certainly with the way we play. He’s not a modern day full-back...he’s essentially filling in because we have no-one else. You can’t just expect to get high up the pitch. Doing that without strong possession is suicide in the Champ. I compare him to Dasilva who we often see right high up on the touchline whilst the ball is on the right waiting for a switch in play. We don't really see Rowe doing that. you shouldn’t be comparing him to Dasilva, they’re very different players. Dasilva doesn’t ‘bomb’, he progresses up the pitch with the play. Of course he breaks the lines too / more often. What do you do? Ask Rowe to play a way he can’t, or try to get the best out of him by getting him to play to his strengths? Of course we do see Rowe high up when the ball has been in and around the opponents box for a while, giving him the time to join in with the attack. For me when O'Dowda moved to left back against Boro he did far more in that short time going forward and was solid defensively. Boro even stopped targeting our left side after that change was made. we were trying to wrestle a point from 2-1 down...license to bomb. We don't look so dangerous going forward without Afobe, but I'm also looking at any other areas that can be improved to give us more of an attacking threat. what do you lose defensively though by your approach though? It’s a balancing act. Bar the 442 yesterday, the 5212 has been about forcing the opposition outside of the penalty area, either to longer shots or wide, where Rowe has been very solid. For me Rowe's best performance as far as what he offered the team was when he moved to centre back in a 3 and O'Dowda was left wing back. Swansea I think? He is surprisingly strong, and was winning headers, much better on the ball than Baker. ultimately all about opinions, but in mine he has played an integral part of an impressive team set of results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobBobSuperBob Posted October 6, 2019 Report Share Posted October 6, 2019 6 minutes ago, Davefevs said: Good post / points I like the fact that Rowe knows his limitations , when to go and when not to , doesn’t get caught in behind but is normally in a position to put in an early threat / challenge to his man - he’s a very ‘wise’ player in a lot of ways and done a great job IMHO I like JD , lovely footballer , and the future at LB , but I’m not sure that TR isn’t more solid defensively and I don’t think JD would have provided the goals or assists that TR has to date So he’s not doing too bad ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 6, 2019 Report Share Posted October 6, 2019 12 minutes ago, Davefevs said: You kind of make my point that Rowe has his limitations. It's exactly what I'm saying. He hasn't the pace to get up and down. I'd rather go with O'Dowda who according to a poster on here, Roy Keane said that him and O'Neil see him as a left back. Maybe O'Dowda wanted to leave for Forest as maybe like Joe Bryan he sees himself more of an attacking full back than a winger. I had thought Rowe had a fairly solid game defensively yesterday but having watched the highlights back he was caught twice for pace with balls over the top for Meite. One where he went clean through and another where Rowe nudged him and actually probably would have been sent off if the ref could have seen it was a foul as he'd already been booked. And at one point in the second half a Reading player got past him like he wasn't there. His lack of pace he can do nothing about, but it is what it is, he has no pace. I do think Rowe does a good enough job for a player who has his limitations in a position he is not best in. I see him more effective as being a central midfielder, and even looked more comfortable in left of a three at the back. It's a bit like why I did not really rate Pisano at right back, and actually thought his best performances for us were the two centre back games he played. He didn't get forward much as he could not get back when he did. And generally knew how to defend, so often was solid enough, but his lack of pace could let him down at times and he could be caught. Very similar to the way I think of Rowe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted October 6, 2019 Report Share Posted October 6, 2019 2 minutes ago, JonDolman said: You kind of make my point that Rowe has his limitations. so do all players, Dasilva himself. It's exactly what I'm saying. He hasn't the pace to get up and down. I'd rather go with O'Dowda who according to a poster on here, Roy Keane said that him and O'Neil see him as a left back. that’s a leap of faith Jon! If you want to play a system that has an extravagant left back in O’Dowda that’s fine, I quite like the solid base we start from. O’Dowda has a helluva lot to learn about defending, positioning before I would pick him over Rowe in the system(s) LJ is employing. I can see occasions for him at LWB when we need to chase. Would rather Callum focus on his preferred LM/W role first. Thought he looked v.decent yesterday. Pace is becoming more and more important in today’s game but it isn’t the be all and end all. Guile, craft, body positioning, touch, desire, bravery are so important too. Rowe has most of those at a good level. I can’t wait to see Dasilva back fully fit....but I’ll happily have Rowe as my first choice replacement LB in the meantime. Maybe O'Dowda wanted to leave for Forest as maybe like Joe Bryan he sees himself more of an attacking full back than a winger. I don’t believe any player really sees themselves as a full-back. Gary Neville said no kid ever wants to be Neville, a RB! Players who move backwards in position is often because of necessity. Ashley Cole was a striker in Arsenal age group football. I had thought Rowe had a fairly solid game defensively yesterday but having watched the highlights back he was caught twice for pace with balls over the top for Meite. once! The other time was not pace, but he switched off from a quick free-kick. Still at fault, but not because of pace. One where he went clean through and another where Rowe nudged him and actually probably would have been sent off if the ref could have seen it was a foul as he'd already been booked. And at one point in the second half a Reading player got past him like he wasn't there. His lack of pace he can do nothing about, but it is what it is, he has no pace. it happens. It happened to Bryan, it happened to Dasilva. Look how Evaria jinked past O’Dowda in the box, turned him inside out, again and again. It’s effin hard being a fullback one on one with an advancing winger. That’s why so often you need to double up. I think you are expecting too much of a perfect full-back....one that would be top-end Prem if so!! I do think Rowe does a good enough job for a player who has his limitations in a position he is not best in. I see him more effective as being a central midfielder his natural position! , and even looked more comfortable in left of a three at the back. you’re basing that on a small sample of minutes v Boro, when he was good. How would he deal with diags against someone like Gallagher at Blackburn or Matt Smith peeling onto him every chance they got? It's a bit like why I did not really rate Pisano at right back, and actually thought his best performances for us were the two centre back games he played. He didn't get forward much as he could not get back when he did. And generally knew how to defend, so often was solid enough, but his lack of pace could let him down at times and he could be caught. Very similar to the way I think of Rowe. injuries deprived us of seeing a full-flowing Pisano. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobBobSuperBob Posted October 6, 2019 Report Share Posted October 6, 2019 7 minutes ago, Davefevs said: I don’t believe any player really sees themselves as a full-back. Gary Neville said no kid ever wants to be Neville, a RB! Players who move backwards in position is often because of necessity. Ashley Cole was a striker in Arsenal age group football. I was a right back ........or second Centre half I read this and realised you’re right ! poor technically ............right back it is then ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted October 6, 2019 Report Share Posted October 6, 2019 I think Brownhill is playing like he needs a rest. Some of the times he lost the ball on Saturday reminded me of Pack when he was in a similar position. Normally, I'm a big fan of his. When Kalas is back, I'd start him from the bench. Neither Moore or Williams deserve dropping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted October 6, 2019 Report Share Posted October 6, 2019 9 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said: I think Brownhill is playing like he needs a rest. Some of the times he lost the ball on Saturday reminded me of Pack when he was in a similar position. Normally, I'm a big fan of his. When Kalas is back, I'd start him from the bench. Neither Moore or Williams deserve dropping. Think him and Massengo have formed a tough midfield two. Brownhill having to adapt his game with Han-Noah alongside him. We will see a different Josh alongside Nagy....they are all different CMs. He’ll get that rest with the international break. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted October 6, 2019 Report Share Posted October 6, 2019 9 minutes ago, Davefevs said: Think him and Massengo have formed a tough midfield two. Brownhill having to adapt his game with Han-Noah alongside him. We will see a different Josh alongside Nagy....they are all different CMs. He’ll get that rest with the international break. Yer right there. I think Josh is more of a forward or central midfielder than a just-in-front-the-defence kinda guy. He's had to play a position he isn't best suited to, but generally, he's not been too bad at. The strain showed yesterday though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1960maaan Posted October 6, 2019 Report Share Posted October 6, 2019 10 minutes ago, Davefevs said: We will see a different Josh alongside Nagy....they are all different CMs. I wonder.... Bentley Kalas: Moore: Williams/Baker Hunt....... Nagy ........ DaSilva Brownhill ............. HNM Palmer Weimann Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted October 6, 2019 Report Share Posted October 6, 2019 8 minutes ago, 1960maaan said: I wonder.... Bentley Kalas: Moore: Williams/Baker Hunt....... Nagy ........ DaSilva Brownhill ............. HNM Palmer Weimann Was thinking something similar.... 5131 / 3331 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobBobSuperBob Posted October 6, 2019 Report Share Posted October 6, 2019 2 minutes ago, Davefevs said: Was thinking something similar.... 5131 / 3331 I wouldn’t be against this in certain games Solid Hunt. Kalas Williams/Tm JD Brownhill Nagy Massengo Rowe Weimann & take your pick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 6, 2019 Report Share Posted October 6, 2019 3 minutes ago, Davefevs said: Fair enough. I would love to see O'Dowda there getting up and down the line as much as Dasilva, but offering a bit more direct running into space rather than intricate skill of Dasilva. Different attributes. O'Dowda has played a bit at wing back, where he has always looked solid enough defensively imo, and offered a lot going forward, coming from deeper and having more space he can attack which suits him. And we usually play wing backs, so I am surprised LJ has not used him there more than he has there. Every player has his limitations, sure. But for that position I would say i'd maybe accept Rowe being a bit dodgy in one on one defending or balls played behind him if he offered a lot going forward. But he isn't an attacking full back, so I would want someone better defensively if they don't get forward much. Dasilva improved his defensive game a lot last season, but that's obviously where he still needs to improve. But he is so good going forward, and so important in how we build attacks, we continue to accept he has to improve defensively. But I actually think Dasilva is pretty solid enough anyway in defending as he is, but of course will only get better at everything. Players do not get past him very easily, or out pace him. I wouldn't listen to Gary Neville saying no one wants to be a full back, I am pretty sure he hasn't asked everyone! If a player realises that's their best position then I am sure that's where they will want to play. Joe Bryan sees himself as a full back as that is where he always felt could take him furthest, which is probably true even if some people think he is not a full back, it got him a season in the prem. We all have different opinions. It's like the Marlon Pack debate. I was saying for a long time that he is not good enough for how we want to play, and some were not happy with me saying it, but I think I was right there as we look so much more mobile in midfield now. I just hope Dasilva stays fit when he is back, as he has all the attributes I like in a modern day full back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spudski Posted October 6, 2019 Report Share Posted October 6, 2019 When all back fully fit, I'd like to see this... ______________Bents________________ _____Kalas___Williams___Moore______ ______________Nagy________________ Brownhill__HNM____Odowda__DaSilva ______________Palmer______________ ______________Striker_______________ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Red Hat Posted October 6, 2019 Report Share Posted October 6, 2019 I think 352, Kalas Williams, Moore. Central MF3, Josh, Nagy, HNM. Good solid central spine there. Take your pick for the rest, although I'd probably have AW up front somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1960maaan Posted October 6, 2019 Report Share Posted October 6, 2019 9 hours ago, spudski said: When all back fully fit, I'd like to see this... ______________Bents________________ _____Kalas___Williams___Moore______ ______________Nagy________________ Brownhill__HNM____Odowda__DaSilva ______________Palmer______________ ______________Striker_______________ Similar to what I thought, but I think JB would be a little wasted having to cover as WB. And you seem to have spelt Weimann wrong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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