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Watching Michael Keane and considering the other 2 CBs in the squad are Mings and TImori, Adam Webster should be playing next to Maguire.  Put simply, he is superior to all 3 by some way.  He's an upgrade on Stones.  Gomez isn't actually proven in any way.  I can't see a better option.

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8 minutes ago, The Bard said:

Watching Michael Keane and considering the other 2 CBs in the squad are Mings and TImori, Adam Webster should be playing next to Maguire.  Put simply, he is superior to all 3 by some way.  He's an upgrade on Stones.  Gomez isn't actually proven in any way.  I can't see a better option.

Webster an upgrade on stones?

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1 minute ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Yes, - will be with some more Premier Experience

IMHO

 

No chance imo. 

Stones is a year older, Guardiolas first choice centre back with two premier league titles under his belt, multiple England appearances and opportunities on the main stage. 

Webster could very easily be a later bloomer but from what I’ve seen of them both, and the level they’ve both played at. There is little chance Webster will become a better player, even if I put my city tinted glasses on...

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1 minute ago, The Bard said:

Yep.  Stones is a busted flush.  Pushed too hard in order to live up to a standard he can't keep to by Pep.   Webster has a lot of improvement in him.  

Possibly. Not sure if stones is down yet but a dearth of CB options means the class of Webster is surely a better option than keane.

Full backs were possibly a bigger issue tonight . How on earth trippier and rose got the nod ahead of TAA and chilwell is insane. Chilwell’s ace. 

Rice and Henderson is a seriously poor midfield selection too. 

Southgate has done loads right in the last few years but got it totally wrong tonight.....

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3 minutes ago, The Bard said:

Yep.  Stones is a busted flush.  Pushed too hard in order to live up to a standard he can't keep to by Pep.   Webster has a lot of improvement in him.  

Webster does I agree, but so does Stones provided he gets back to full fitness. 

If you were given the choice between a fully fit John stones and a fully fit Adam Webster would you seriously go for Webster?

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1 minute ago, The chief said:

Possibly. Not sure if stones is down yet but a dearth of CB options means the class of Webster is surely a better option than keane.

Full backs were possibly a bigger issue tonight . How on earth trippier and rose got the nod ahead of TAA and chilwell is insane. Chilwell’s ace. 

Rice and Henderson is a seriously poor midfield selection too. 

Southgate has done loads right in the last few years but got it totally wrong tonight.....

Midfield is a massive issue.  Rice is overrated IMHO.  Winks a much better option next to Henderson.

 

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40 minutes ago, JBFC II said:

No chance imo. 

Stones is a year older, Guardiolas first choice centre back with two premier league titles under his belt, multiple England appearances and opportunities on the main stage. 

Webster could very easily be a later bloomer but from what I’ve seen of them both, and the level they’ve both played at. There is little chance Webster will become a better player, even if I put my city tinted glasses on...

Blinded by the one time hype I’d suggest 

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2 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Blinded by the one time hype I’d suggest 

I’d suggest exactly the same for you. 

The one problem being, Stones’ hype has lasted circa 5 years in the premier league and Europe whereas Webster’s has lasted around a season whilst playing in the championship...

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For me Keane and Rose need to be removed from the international set up. I’m not sure how Keane is in there to be honest. Both not good enough.
 

If that’s the standard of our CB then Webster should be banging the door down.

Southgate’s biggest mistake tonight though was playing Henderson and Rice together. Just lacked energy and spark in there!

 

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5 minutes ago, JBFC II said:

I’d suggest exactly the same for you. 

The one problem being, Stones’ hype has lasted circa 5 years in the premier league and Europe whereas Webster’s has lasted around a season whilst playing in the championship...

When’s the last time you saw Stones in a game where he’s impressed ?

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6 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

When’s the last time you saw Stones in a game where he’s impressed ?

I thought he looked good against West Ham to be honest. 

Then again it’s very difficult for him to stand out, this is a Man City side who we know are going to trounce teams and so defensively it’s more impressive when the defenders don’t stand out as you know they’re doing their job properly. 

Compare that to Webster who at Brighton needs to have excellent games to stand out in a side who will be looking to their defence in over half their games. 

Realistically though, Stones has a much better pedigree and is of similar age to Webster, objectively you have to admit he’s a better player and will have probably already achieved more than Webster could dream of and may well continue to go and achieve even more

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3 minutes ago, JBFC II said:

I thought he looked good against West Ham to be honest. 

Then again it’s very difficult for him to stand out, this is a Man City side who we know are going to trounce teams and so defensively it’s more impressive when the defenders don’t stand out as you know they’re doing their job properly. 

Compare that to Webster who st Brighton needs to have excellent games to stand out in a side who will be looking to their defence in over half their games. 

So what about his game & attributes do you think puts him at a different level to Webster then .......

 & Have you actually watched Webster this season ?

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1 minute ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

So what about his game & attributes do you think puts him at a different level to Webster then .......

He’s better on the ball. 

He’s got better positioning. 

He’s more experienced which gives him that extra bit of nous that always helps a defender. 

He’s calmer and seems to know when to bring the ball out better than Webster currently.

Overall, I think you’re kidding yourself if you think Webster is a better defender than John Stones 

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John Stones, according to who scored has an average rating of 6.9 over 181 games in the premier league, World Cup, champions league, Europa league, nations league. 

Adam Webster, over his 5 premier league games has an average rating of 6.87.

So Stones has been consistently better, at a high level, for longer

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1 minute ago, JBFC II said:

He’s better on the ball. 

He’s got better positioning. 

He’s more experienced which gives him that extra bit of nous that always helps a defender. 

He’s calmer and seems to know when to bring the ball out better than Webster currently.

Overall, I think you’re kidding yourself if you think Webster is a better defender than John Stones 

Don’t do your usual and start making silly comments like your final sentence unless you want your usual argument with someone or other

‘Better on the ball’  - lazy generalisation 

Webster is two footed, doesn’t try fancy Cruyff turns a la Stones , doesn’t make the same errors as Stones does on a regular basis , Webster a superior passer so ,I’m far from kidding myself ta

Better Positioning - Neither the best out and out defenders but if you think Stones positioning is good ......well

And calmer ?   Try casual - I’ll refer you back to numerous errors

 

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16 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Don’t do your usual and start making silly comments like your final sentence unless you want your usual argument with someone or other

‘Better on the ball’  - lazy generalisation 

Webster is two footed, doesn’t try fancy Cruyff turns a la Stones , doesn’t make the same errors as Stones does on a regular basis , Webster a superior passer so ,I’m far from kidding myself ta

Better Positioning - Neither the best out and out defenders but if you think Stones positioning is good ......well

And calmer ?   Try casual - I’ll refer you back to numerous errors

 

Again, this is just from what I’ve seen.

Stones is better with the ball at his feet. Let’s not forget, Webster has spent the last few years playing against much worse opponents where the pressing game is less impressive making it easier for players to bring the ball out. Then this season, against Man City he struggled. Who scored gave him a 6.06 rating for that one. Admittedly I didn’t watch the game, but it shows he wasn’t up to the standard needed against the second best side in the country, who John Stones plays for. 

Stones has improved and cut out mistakes, yes they are still there (a la Netherlands in the nations league) but that’s the risk ball playing defenders take. 

To claim Webster ‘doesn’t make the same errors Stones does on a regular basis’ is questionable, when you consider the amount of games he’s played at premier league level. He showed himself out to be a top championship defender, but the premier league is a whole different ball game. Yes he had an excellent game against an abysmal spurs side, but will he be able to do it for 180 games plus whilst making no mistakes? I doubt it.

Lets not forget, Webster was part of a city defence that conceded 53 goals last season, more than one a game. i get that isn’t a fair reflection of his performances, but I would argue that with multiple premier league winning, England international John Stones in our defence, we would have conceded less

Webster a superior passer? Stones regularly has a 90% plus pass completion ratio, I don’t recall Webster having stats like that. 

In fact, Stones has averaged a 91% pass completion ratio since his move to Everton, at the top level of English and international football. Webster’s is at 79.5% since he joined us. That’s a massive difference, and shows that Webster certainly isn’t a ‘better passer’

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46 minutes ago, JBFC II said:

Again, this is just from what I’ve seen.

Stones is better with the ball at his feet. Let’s not forget, Webster has spent the last few years playing against much worse opponents where the pressing game is less impressive making it easier for players to bring the ball out. Then this season, against Man City he struggled. Who scored gave him a 6.06 rating for that one. Admittedly I didn’t watch the game, but it shows he wasn’t up to the standard needed against the second best side in the country, who John Stones plays for. 

Stones has improved and cut out mistakes, yes they are still there (a la Netherlands in the nations league) but that’s the risk ball playing defenders take. 

To claim Webster ‘doesn’t make the same errors Stones does on a regular basis’ is questionable, when you consider the amount of games he’s played at premier league level. He showed himself out to be a top championship defender, but the premier league is a whole different ball game. Yes he had an excellent game against an abysmal spurs side, but will he be able to do it for 180 games plus whilst making no mistakes? I doubt it.

Lets not forget, Webster was part of a city defence that conceded 53 goals last season, more than one a game. i get that isn’t a fair reflection of his performances, but I would argue that with multiple premier league winning, England international John Stones in our defence, we would have conceded less

Webster a superior passer? Stones regularly has a 90% plus pass completion ratio, I don’t recall Webster having stats like that. 

In fact, Stones has averaged a 91% pass completion ratio since his move to Everton, at the top level of English and international football. Webster’s is at 79.5% since he joined us. That’s a massive difference, and shows that Webster certainly isn’t a ‘better passer’

You highlight a flaw in Stones by your own posts

How Long has Stones been hyped you pointed out ? ‘Circa 5 years’

How much has he improved in that time ?

5 years

(I’d say he initially improved and has since digressed , still , regularly making errors)

Webster has the ability and capacity to improve , is on the up atm , and if he does will certainly be a better player than Stones IMHO , if he isn’t already

As for your passing stats - is that how you judge who is the ‘better passer’ ?

You don’t consider or factor ? in things like

options , dependent on quality / movement of teammates , ....passing distances , ......passing ‘risks’ taken ? Etc 

Put Webster in the Man City side and Stones In Brighton’s and you may review your opinion

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2 hours ago, PHILINFRANCE said:

Thank You 👏.

I have just checked, and he was 2.02 metres (6.7 tall) and weighed 106kg!

He retired 10 years ago.

 

I "Czeched"* as well...he was later than '98. More '02 and Euro '04. Still, remember him as a massive lump who Pavel Nedved spent hours and hours trying to find with lofted through balls.

*Sorry

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overpaid tossers the lot of them, who couldn't be bothered to turn up, feel sorry for the fans who did turn up. Couldn't watch no more after HT :gaah:

Just read on beeb the headline 14 English fans were arrested....further down there were 31 arrests making us the minority group..bias against English fans?

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Unless we limit the number of foreign players in our Leagues than the England National team is only ever going to get worse - we have an ever decreasing pool of quality English players to pick from. I really hope not, but I fear we are a Scotland waiting to happen in the long term. 

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I think Roy made a good point about ‘improvement’ and ‘mid twenties’. Do I see Stones improving? Nope. In his comfort zone making the same old sloppy mistakes. Do I see Webster improving? Yes.

Id say little to choose currently between them - excepting Stones having the experience -  but Webster would have it for me on desire, concentration and potential to improve. 

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8 hours ago, JBFC II said:

John Stones, according to who scored has an average rating of 6.9 over 181 games in the premier league, World Cup, champions league, Europa league, nations league. 

Adam Webster, over his 5 premier league games has an average rating of 6.87.

So Stones has been consistently better, at a high level, for longer

Adam Webster can't be that bad if he's only 0.03 on average rating behind John Stones after only 5 PL games....after 176 more PL games, Stones should be miles in front if he's really that good.

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7 hours ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

You highlight a flaw in Stones by your own posts

How Long has Stones been hyped you pointed out ? ‘Circa 5 years’

How much has he improved in that time ?

5 years

(I’d say he initially improved and has since digressed , still , regularly making errors)

Webster has the ability and capacity to improve , is on the up atm , and if he does will certainly be a better player than Stones IMHO , if he isn’t already

As for your passing stats - is that how you judge who is the ‘better passer’ ?

You don’t consider or factor ? in things like

options , dependent on quality / movement of teammates , ....passing distances , ......passing ‘risks’ taken ? Etc 

Put Webster in the Man City side and Stones In Brighton’s and you may review your opinion

Fair enough, if Webster makes a 47 million pound move in the next year to either Man City or Liverpool  then I’ll agree with you. 

Currently though I think John Stones is a much better defender, as the stats, his reputation and past success, the amount of games he’s played at a top level, and trophies he has won. 

Ill return the question, what have you seen from Webster’s first 5 premier league games to make you think he is a better player than Stones?

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25 minutes ago, BanburyRed said:

Adam Webster can't be that bad if he's only 0.03 on average rating behind John Stones after only 5 PL games....after 176 more PL games, Stones should be miles in front if he's really that good.

Not really, anyone can have a good first 5 games. 

Whoscored are seriously harsh on player ratings (massengo is currently on a 6.4 iirc) and yet Stones is consistently getting decent scores

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Morning all, have an easy day with the feet up if you can. Saturdays aren't the same without City.

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