BRISTOL86 Posted October 20, 2019 Report Share Posted October 20, 2019 And another one https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/50117848 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 20, 2019 Report Share Posted October 20, 2019 17 minutes ago, BTRFTG said: Whilst I'm sure some of those sing with racist or inflammatory intent most do not - they haven't given a first thought to what they say or how they behave, it's just a something they blindly follow. Exactly this. Many people will not see the chant as racist regardless of what others views are on the chant itself. Does anyone honestly think these same people who sung that song would happily sing some of the songs from 40 years ago, or throw bananas on the pitch etc. Of course they wouldn't because they know that is racist. As said above nearly every other club this season has fans who have sung it at Luton this season as well, and no doubt at Birmingham etc and it will get sung again whether people like it or not, as many fans just do not see they are doing anything wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Exile Posted October 20, 2019 Report Share Posted October 20, 2019 11 minutes ago, wood_red said: Exactly this. Many people will not see the chant as racist regardless of what others views are on the chant itself. Does anyone honestly think these same people who sung that song would happily sing some of the songs from 40 years ago, or throw bananas on the pitch etc. Of course they wouldn't because they know that is racist. As said above nearly every other club this season has fans who have sung it at Luton this season as well, and no doubt at Birmingham etc and it will get sung again whether people like it or not, as many fans just do not see they are doing anything wrong. hmm...well if the people who don't like it include the people who run the football clubs (and they appear to include Jon Lansdown)...and if those people use CCTV and stewarding to police this, then those doing the singing might find out quite quickly that they are doing something wrong, and lose the chance to do it again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted October 20, 2019 Report Share Posted October 20, 2019 Here's another thing too- which is possibly minor in comparison, but then again perhaps not. People who sing these songs, chant these chants- as well as them basically being wrong verbatim, to do, also set back fans causes somewhat! Gives those who oversee safe standing debates or alcohol in view of the pitch all the ammo they need to kick it into the long grass- what I'm trying to say I guess is that it doesn't do fans or improvement in fan conditions any favours! Likewise it probably doesn't do any thing but create conditions for overzealous risk assessments, policing and stewarding- all that area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulieH Posted October 20, 2019 Report Share Posted October 20, 2019 3 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said: Less than clear from your post which chant you mean, but assume you mean the 'Small Town' one. Overall, I certainly agree with your post but sadly how I see it is that society has a certain % of people who are either racist, or generally prejudiced, football clubs and fanbases are part of that society. Ergo clubs will have a certain % of fans who are racist or generally bigoted/prejudiced. Be it outright or clear ignorance. Mixture of bannings and educational programmes- perhaps a combination of the two for some. I don't think it'll ever be eradicated fully though, sadly. Think the best we can hope for is that banning, education or hybrid approach and that people when they enter a football ground leave political views generally, but specifically racist views or chants at the door. Yes sadly I think that is the case, there will always be a small percentage who will do these types of chants. certainly myself and other football officers are also trying to move into education stage as well as punishment stage but this is not a quick fix and will take time unfortunately Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshtonPark Posted October 20, 2019 Report Share Posted October 20, 2019 1 minute ago, JulieH said: Yes sadly I think that is the case, there will always be a small percentage who will do these types of chants. certainly myself and other football officers are also trying to move into education stage as well as punishment stage but this is not a quick fix and will take time unfortunately Julie, from a law point of view is there any difference between fans chanting small town in wales and a small town in Asia? I’m not saying either is fine to sing, I’m just wondering from a legal point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeAman08 Posted October 20, 2019 Report Share Posted October 20, 2019 Why hasn’t his name been heard at AG or any other away day? The fact his name was being sung in Luton is what made it racist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murraysrightplum Posted October 20, 2019 Report Share Posted October 20, 2019 6 minutes ago, AshtonPark said: Julie, from a law point of view is there any difference between fans chanting small town in wales and a small town in Asia? I’m not saying either is fine to sing, I’m just wondering from a legal point. Taking the word “small” out, the wales one is true surely? Luton is definitely not in Asia and the connections/connotations are based on skin colour alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshtonPark Posted October 20, 2019 Report Share Posted October 20, 2019 3 minutes ago, Murraysrightplum said: Taking the word “small” out, the wales one is true surely? Luton is definitely not in Asia and the connections/connotations are based on skin colour alone. Sorry, I meant for example away fans chanting at us and I imagine rovers being a small town in wales. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCFC Jimmer Posted October 20, 2019 Report Share Posted October 20, 2019 13 minutes ago, AshtonPark said: Julie, from a law point of view is there any difference between fans chanting small town in wales and a small town in Asia? I’m not saying either is fine to sing, I’m just wondering from a legal point. FML. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murraysrightplum Posted October 20, 2019 Report Share Posted October 20, 2019 2 minutes ago, AshtonPark said: Sorry, I meant for example away fans chanting at us and I imagine rovers being a small town in wales. Ah I see. Still nothing to do with skin colour so not racism IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 20, 2019 Report Share Posted October 20, 2019 43 minutes ago, Red Exile said: hmm...well if the people who don't like it include the people who run the football clubs (and they appear to include Jon Lansdown)...and if those people use CCTV and stewarding to police this, then those doing the singing might find out quite quickly that they are doing something wrong, and lose the chance to do it again. Regardless of what me, you, the club and many others think, the bottom line is a huge percentage of those singing that yesterday will not think they have done anything "racist". That was my point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
italian dave Posted October 20, 2019 Report Share Posted October 20, 2019 4 hours ago, JulieH said: Why would you think that though? Is the guy next to you in the crowd part of a paedophille ring? This is the point. Perceived racism comes in all different forms There were no chants aimed at any other fans like that; other than that particular box, yet on the basis of probability there were probably other white paedophilles in the crowd also racist chanting can never be excused Indeed - exactly the point I was trying to make! I believe (you'll know better than me) that most child abuse is perpetrated by family members. Doesn't mean that we demonise all parents! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted October 20, 2019 Report Share Posted October 20, 2019 Thread on the Luton forum about it. Not really read it yet- the layout, format isn't great either! Okay, better format below! https://members.boardhost.com/lutonoutlaws/thread/1571521408.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS2 Red Posted October 20, 2019 Report Share Posted October 20, 2019 22 minutes ago, AshtonPark said: Sorry, I meant for example away fans chanting at us and I imagine rovers being a small town in wales. I guess it could come under xenophobia, but it’s not racist as the English and Welsh are nationalities not races. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richwwtk Posted October 20, 2019 Report Share Posted October 20, 2019 4 minutes ago, wood_red said: Regardless of what me, you, the club and many others think, the bottom line is a huge percentage of those singing that yesterday will not think they have done anything "racist". That was my point. Doesn't change the fact that they have done something "racist". Ignorance really isn't much of a defence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted October 20, 2019 Report Share Posted October 20, 2019 I'm surmising here, but my guess is that @AshtonPark considers the two "Small Town" chants to be equivalent, one and the same? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted October 20, 2019 Report Share Posted October 20, 2019 Specifically on the Tommy Robinson chants, I don't know whether they are racist or not, or the intent of those singing is a racist one or not but it's worth noting that racist or not, they appear to be seen as unacceptable at football currently, because in 2018, the CEO of a certain club asked their fans to stop singing it. Guess which club? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRL Posted October 20, 2019 Report Share Posted October 20, 2019 Fingers crossed allof those involved get picked upon CCTV, banned for life by the club and are dealt with by the police and courts. For me if we are going to get rid of this from football, it should start with points docking,not pointless fines and a slap on the wrist, if points start being docked, and a decent amount of points,maybe this will make the fans self govern if they have the real interest of the club at heart rather than those who go for other reasons. And yes I would be happy for this to come in immediately,if it costs us so be it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poland_exile Posted October 20, 2019 Report Share Posted October 20, 2019 i remember the embarassment I felt when a mate of mine entered the Open End to be met with chants of 'We Hate China' by a small group of lads. Back when I was regular away traveller in the 90s I don't think there was a single visit to Birmingham, Leicester and the like that didn't feature some kind of racially charged chanting, though I think the worst instance I ever saw was the last game of standing in the East End when Wayne Allison was getting absolutely slaughtered by a section of our own crowd behind the goal - not seen this mentioned before, wonder if anyone else remembers. That said, to answer the original question, i'd dispute that racism is a problem at city games. In a big crowd the law of averages dictates there will be some element, but I would like to think we are a club that most people would find comfortable to watch as a home supporter. As for the chants of small town in asia, personally I wouldn't view it as being racist, though I can certainly understand why some people would find it distasteful and provocative. As a song, it should be retired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 20, 2019 Report Share Posted October 20, 2019 3 minutes ago, TRL said: Fingers crossed allof those involved get picked upon CCTV, banned for life by the club and are dealt with by the police and courts. For me if we are going to get rid of this from football, it should start with points docking,not pointless fines and a slap on the wrist, if points start being docked, and a decent amount of points,maybe this will make the fans self govern if they have the real interest of the club at heart rather than those who go for other reasons. And yes I would be happy for this to come in immediately,if it costs us so be it. And charged with what exactly? You honestly think the Police will take people to court for racism because they sang "small town in Asia" in a football ground? Not a chance in hell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redsontour Posted October 20, 2019 Report Share Posted October 20, 2019 2 hours ago, swanker said: Abu Bakr al-Baghadadi might argue with you on that one. He thinks it’s the purest form on Islam! He knows a thing or two about Islam and the Koran. He has a doctorate and phd in Islamic studies. He also has millions of followers. I’m not sure of your point there? Al-Baghadadi is a terrorist, a leader of an organisation that thinks nothing of killing anybody, radical islamists included. Yes ISIL has supporters, certainly not in the millions, and possibly less than 100k. Radicalism, by its very nature is to be far outside of mainstream thinking, Baghadadi is far outside the thinking of the nearly 2 billion followers of Islam as to qualify him an expert on nothing. A PHD doesn’t make you correct, and a PHD from the worlds most radical Islamic university (that he attended because he failed his exams to go elsewhere) is therefor not that helpful. But, you are right, I’m sure he would disagree with me if he wasn’t too busy hidding in a mountain, eating grubs and ducking drones ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lrrr Posted October 20, 2019 Report Share Posted October 20, 2019 18 minutes ago, TRL said: Fingers crossed allof those involved get picked upon CCTV, banned for life by the club and are dealt with by the police and courts. For me if we are going to get rid of this from football, it should start with points docking,not pointless fines and a slap on the wrist, if points start being docked, and a decent amount of points,maybe this will make the fans self govern if they have the real interest of the club at heart rather than those who go for other reasons. And yes I would be happy for this to come in immediately,if it costs us so be it. Could we see the FA doing their 'stamp down on....' initiative punish one team and then it slides off again... that sounds familiar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted October 20, 2019 Report Share Posted October 20, 2019 17 minutes ago, hodge said: Could we see the FA doing their 'stamp down on....' initiative punish one team and then it slides off again... that sounds familiar On this occasion, we'd have a strong- or at least decent- legal case IMO. Depending on the punishment of course, and whether it'd be worth pursuing- even to the CAS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1bristolcity Posted October 20, 2019 Report Share Posted October 20, 2019 2 hours ago, RonWalker said: Which would be fine, but is it possible to be proud and white and English without degrading people who aren’t? I am white and proud to be English, but to use it in a discussion regarding race, it smacks of being, well, racist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Exile Posted October 20, 2019 Report Share Posted October 20, 2019 35 minutes ago, wood_red said: Regardless of what me, you, the club and many others think, the bottom line is a huge percentage of those singing that yesterday will not think they have done anything "racist". That was my point. Point taken. Now, I'd be pretty sure that the intention was racist for the reasons others have stated already, but I equally imagine not many thought about what they were singing before they joined in and so few would think they done much wrong. But I'm old enough to remember when players like Devon White playing for Rovers would be getting casual racist abuse from fans sat in the Dolman...it took a bit of education for such folk to appreciate that times had moved on...and to be more respectful. I'm not sure that the courts would have to be involved for a club to decide to revoke a season ticket...it would be enough to decide that fans had in some way breached ground regulations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Brent Posted October 20, 2019 Report Share Posted October 20, 2019 State of that Bristol City Til I Die Facebook page mind Never realised we had so many shit fans Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted October 20, 2019 Report Share Posted October 20, 2019 11 minutes ago, Red Exile said: Point taken. Now, I'd be pretty sure that the intention was racist for the reasons others have stated already, but I equally imagine not many thought about what they were singing before they joined in and so few would think they done much wrong. But I'm old enough to remember when players like Devon White playing for Rovers would be getting casual racist abuse from fans sat in the Dolman...it took a bit of education for such folk to appreciate that times had moved on...and to be more respectful. I'm not sure that the courts would have to be involved for a club to decide to revoke a season ticket...it would be enough to decide that fans had in some way breached ground regulations. Yes- indeed this can come under civil offences or something similar, either way a lower threshold than the courts. Also worth remembering that tickets and season tickets technically remain the property of the club at all times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maltshoveller Posted October 20, 2019 Report Share Posted October 20, 2019 49 minutes ago, BS2 Red said: I guess it could come under xenophobia, but it’s not racist as the English and Welsh are nationalities not races. Could it not just come under Taking the piss!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 20, 2019 Report Share Posted October 20, 2019 4 minutes ago, Red Exile said: Point taken. Now, I'd be pretty sure that the intention was racist for the reasons others have stated already, but I equally imagine not many thought about what they were singing before they joined in and so few would think they done much wrong. But I'm old enough to remember when players like Devon White playing for Rovers would be getting casual racist abuse from fans sat in the Dolman...it took a bit of education for such folk to appreciate that times had moved on...and to be more respectful. I'm not sure that the courts would have to be involved for a club to decide to revoke a season ticket...it would be enough to decide that fans had in some way breached ground regulations. Therein lies my point. Nobody that sung that yesterday (I very much doubt, and hope anyway) would even attempt to do anything like that nowadays because they KNOW it is classed as racism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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