Is racism a problem at City games?

[marksy]

15 minutes ago, AshtonGreat said:

Yeah cos it's only white people who are racist

Some people actually believe that! 

[Guest]

Seeing as it seems the main opinion on here is "the small town is Asia" is a racist chant, then why was that not booed by all the fans who are saying it is racist and were at the ground?

The only boos I heard was twice when the Tommy Robinson chant started with a couple of boos and only a few chanting it initially, and then the second time it started again with around 30 people singing it (may have been more but I didn't think so) and there were more boos. 

I am just wondering if it so obviously racist then why were so many chanting it and not getting pulled up on it?

[Northern Red]

8 minutes ago, wood_red said:

Seeing as it seems the main opinion on here is "the small town is Asia" is a racist chant, then why was that not booed by all the fans who are saying it is racist and were at the ground?

The only boos I heard was twice when the Tommy Robinson chant started with a couple of boos and only a few chanting it initially, and then the second time it started again with around 30 people singing it (may have been more but I didn't think so) and there were more boos. 

I am just wondering if it so obviously racist then why were so many chanting it and not getting pulled up on it?

Why are you continuing to defend it?

[Rinkadink]

I don't get why it's such a big deal, agree or disagree, how hard is it just to sing/chant something else? If someone says it's racist does it hurt to change it? Best thing would be to come up with something funny, new and original but in the case of them even "Luton's a hole, I wanna go home" requires zero effort and appropriate.

[Mr Popodopolous]

 

41 minutes ago, wood_red said:

Seeing as it seems the main opinion on here is "the small town is Asia" is a racist chant, then why was that not booed by all the fans who are saying it is racist and were at the ground?

The only boos I heard was twice when the Tommy Robinson chant started with a couple of boos and only a few chanting it initially, and then the second time it started again with around 30 people singing it (may have been more but I didn't think so) and there were more boos. 

I am just wondering if it so obviously racist then why were so many chanting it and not getting pulled up on it?

You're basically saying that most were indifferent towards it,  as the chanting occurred- not many people booed?

[Guest]

25 minutes ago, Northern Red said:

Why are you continuing to defend it?

I am surely asking a very valid question aren't I? If I am not, then why not?

Many people have came on here saying that the small town song is racist in their view - yet nobody actually booed that song (none at all from what I heard). Yet the Tommy Robinson one got booed pretty quickly (and rightly so), so on that basis the fans in the ground only seemed to have an issue with the Tommy song.

Why was that? Is it because nobody had an issue with it in the ground?

[Mr Popodopolous]

Why don't we do a poll on the respective songs?? 

Whether they're unacceptable, merely offensive but not to an unacceptable level,  attract indifference or in fact,  okay.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

 

You're basically saying that most were indifferent towards it,  as the chanting occurred- not many people booed?

Nobody booed, that is my point. Yet on here the consensus is everyone being appalled by it, yet they done nothing. Yet the Tommy song starts and people jump straight on it and boo? It is as if nobody in the ground seen it as bad on Saturday yet since we made the news the views have changed.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Why don't we do a poll on the respective songs?? 

Whether they're unacceptable, merely offensive but not to an unacceptable level,  attract indifference or in fact,  okay.

It is obvious that it is viewed as unacceptable, and I accept that to be the general consensus - regardless of my own personal view of what went on on Saturday.

But why didn't anyone boo that particular song on Saturday? Surely it is a valid point isn't it?

[Mr Popodopolous]

23 minutes ago, wood_red said:

Nobody booed, that is my point. Yet on here the consensus is everyone being appalled by it, yet they done nothing. Yet the Tommy song starts and people jump straight on it and boo? It is as if nobody in the ground seen it as bad on Saturday yet since we made the news the views have changed.

Okay thanks.  Keep reading different things,  on here and other platforms! It's hard to tell the exact truth.

Some said the numbers chanting, that it was 20, some said it was less, some range between 100-200- you see my point?

I thought that @RedM stated though that booing was reasonably audible,  but was this only about the TR chants then?

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Okay thanks.  Keep reading different things,  on here and other platforms! It's hard to tell the exact truth.

Some said the numbers chanting, that it was 20, some said it was less, some range between 100-200- you see my point?

I thought that @RedM stated though that booing was widespread,  but was this only about the TR chants then?

My take on the whole episode was I never heard a single person boo the small town chant (maybe I just didn't hear them as a lot were chanting it, but surely you would still boo when it started to peter out wouldn't you to be heard)? At a guess I would say at least 150 were chanting that. The Tommy chant was booed pretty instantly, and I would be amazed if over 30 people were singing it the second time around, the boos were louder within a few seconds of it starting. There were boos the first time around as well but it seemed only a handful of people were trying to get it going - one person close to me shouted "ffs just get behind your team", but he done nothing about the small town chant though whatsoever.

My whole point in this is rightly or wrongly, most people singing that small town song on Saturday will not see it as being classed as racist, and I will stick by that.

[Mr Popodopolous]

15 minutes ago, wood_red said:

My take on the whole episode was I never heard a single person boo the small town chant (maybe I just didn't hear them as a lot were chanting it, but surely you would still boo when it started to peter out wouldn't you to be heard)? At a guess I would say at least 150 were chanting that. The Tommy chant was booed pretty instantly, and I would be amazed if over 30 people were singing it the second time around, the boos were louder within a few seconds of it starting. There were boos the first time around as well but it seemed only a handful of people were trying to get it going - one person close to me shouted "ffs just get behind your team", but he done nothing about the small town chant though whatsoever.

My whole point in this is rightly or wrongly, most people singing that small town song on Saturday will not see it as being classed as racist, and I will stick by that.

Okay thanks- that does offer some context. 

150 and upwards singing it first time around, fell away, booed. 30 sang.

Perhaps I misread things then, from the post by Red M, about what and who the booing was aimed at.

The club really,  really doesn't need this however! Fortunately they've done the right thing. 

The fans in question might not but I suspect the FA,  club and quite possibly the police will have a different view. Seemingly Bedfordshire police are investigating.

Claimed this is investigation is for 'alleged racist and indecent chanting'.

The latter I'd be interested to see a definition of, legally speaking,  as that's a new one on me! 

[Guest]

Sorry I think we got wires crossed.

The first attempt at the Tommy one I would say a handful started and got booed by a couple, a few tried again and I would say around 30 joined in in total and got booed again and louder boos by more people.

150 (my guess) were chanting the small town in Asia chant - this was after the Tommy one, and nobody booed.

[Fatknacker]

I don’t really post that often unless it’s something I actually care about, I regularly attend football at the Amex, Ashton Gate, Wembley, rugby union at Twickenham, Bristol, Quins and league at Wakefield and cricket at the County Ground and Hove along with The Ageas, Lords, Edgbaston...most years I also spend a couple of days at Wimbledon, The Open and the Ladies Open, so I’m quite well qualified to comment on sports crowds.

Football crowds are just different, nowhere is better or worse, it’s tribal, bitter, vicious, racist and has the least sophisticated, most unpleasant supporters...the odd thing is when they go to watch other sports they’re like normal human beings.

[Bristol Oil Services]

1 hour ago, AshtonGreat said:

Yeah cos it's only white people who are racist

"Racism = racial prejudice + power"

Understanding that power is the primary feature of racism is key. If understanding is what you seek.

We live in a society that is structured as a hierarchy. An expression of racial prejudice always originates from somewhere on this hierarchy, and is directed at someone/a group in another location on this hierarchy. Power is a fundamental part of the hierarchy. 

Who has power in our society/country? Generally speaking. People of colour? An understanding of power in the hierarchy that exists in the society we live in is key to understanding racism.

 

Racism:

- occurs when an expression of racial prejudice emerges from a more powerful / privileged location on the hierarchy, and is directed at an individual / group in a less privileged /powerful location;

- occurs when the target of the prejudice has less power than the perpetrator;

- is top-down;

- there are more definitions referring to social structures and systems, and institutions and shit, but for now - let's keep it simple! - try and keep in mind:

Racism = racial prejudice  + power.

 

White people can be the subject of racial prejudice from non-whites but because people of colour in the hierarchy in this society do not generally have power it is considered to be racial prejudice, not racism. It is not "top-down," generally speaking.

Power is key, in racism, remember. 

 

(There's tons more of this stuff, if you want: it's a piece of piss to find on this interweb! )

 

While expressions of racial prejudice directed at white people may hurt the white person / people individually or personally, they do not have the power or authority to affect the white person / people's social/economic/political location (in the hierarchy) and privileges.

Reverse racism is a myth because it tries to ignore the key question of who holds more power and privilege in our society.

 

Some, elsewhere, on here appear to be confused about the difference between the abuse directed at Welsh fans, and that directed at people who are not white. This would be the difference between prejudice and racism. White Welsh people are higher up the hierarchy and have greater power, and privilege. They are not being reminded that they are second class and disadvantaged in all/ other areas of their lives.

Much as we like to think chanting "sheep shaggers" at the Welsh is a "top-down" thing, from a society/hierarchy /privilege and power viewpoint it is not, and no Taff is going to be subject to, or reminded of, the impact of the power imbalance in society and the negative impact this has in their lives beyond football.

 

Hope this helps. It's a start. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Fatknacker]

4 minutes ago, Moments of Pleasure said:

"Racism = racial prejudice + power"

Understanding that power is the primary feature of racism is key. If understanding is what you seek.

We live in a society that is structured as a hierarchy. An expression of racial prejudice always originates from somewhere on this hierarchy, and is directed at someone/a group in another location on this hierarchy. Power is a fundamental part of the hierarchy. 

Who has power in our society/country? Generally speaking. People of colour? An understanding of power in the hierarchy that exists in the society we live in is key to understanding racism.

 

Racism:

- occurs when an expression of racial prejudice emerges from a more powerful / privileged location on the hierarchy, and is directed at an individual / group in a less privileged /powerful location;

- occurs when the target of the prejudice has less power than the perpetrator;

- is top-down;

- there are more definitions referring to social structures and systems, and institutions and shit, but for now - let's keep it simple! - try and keep in mind:

Racism = racial prejudice  + power.

 

White people can be the subject of racial prejudice from non-whites but because people of colour in the hierarchy in this society do not generally have power it is considered to be racial prejudice, not racism. It is not "top-down," generally speaking.

Power is key, in racism, remember. 

 

(There's tons more of this stuff, if you want: it's a piece of piss to find on this interweb! )

 

While expressions of racial prejudice directed at white people may hurt the white person / people individually or personally, they do not have the power or authority to affect the white person / people's social/economic/political location (in the hierarchy) and privileges.

Reverse racism is a myth because it tries to ignore the key question of who holds more power and privilege in our society.

 

Some, elsewhere, on here appear to be confused about the difference between the abuse directed at Welsh fans, and that directed at people who are not white. This would be the difference between prejudice and racism. White Welsh people are higher up the hierarchy and have greater power, and privilege. They are not being reminded that they are second class and disadvantaged in all/ other areas of their lives.

Much as we like to think chanting "sheep shaggers" at the Welsh is a "top-down" thing, from a society/hierarchy /privilege and power viewpoint it is not, and no Taff is going to be subject to, or reminded of, the impact of the power imbalance in society and the negative impact this has in their lives beyond football.

 

Hope this helps. It's a start. 

 

 

 

 

 

I’m sure it helped you and whoever the originator is...cut and paste from where?

[Mr Popodopolous]

**** me- while racism clearly is to be dealt with, some of this is well very inaccurate!!

https://www.change.org/p/bristol-city-football-club-stand-up-to-racism-at-bristol-city-fc

Quote

Racist chants by a large section of Bristol City ‘fans’ were clearly heard at the away game to Luton Town

It was not a large section in the slightest- it was a minority and debates in numbers as to whether it was a small, medium or large minority.

Where is the mention of a club led investigation? Where is the mention of condemnation not just by say a presenter like Lisa Knights but the owner and the chairman SL. No reference to booing of some of the chants, no reference to widespread condemnation by the majority of fans on social media or elsewhere,

The organisation/Tweet in question, highlighting this.

Granted it's followed by somewhere between 10-15 people and a mere 11 have signed the petition to date but the inaccuracy irritates me!

[City Rocker]

1 hour ago, Fatknacker said:

I don’t really post that often unless it’s something I actually care about, I regularly attend football at the Amex, Ashton Gate, Wembley, rugby union at Twickenham, Bristol, Quins and league at Wakefield and cricket at the County Ground and Hove along with The Ageas, Lords, Edgbaston...most years I also spend a couple of days at Wimbledon, The Open and the Ladies Open, so I’m quite well qualified to comment on sports crowds.

Football crowds are just different, nowhere is better or worse, it’s tribal, bitter, vicious, racist and has the least sophisticated, most unpleasant supporters...the odd thing is when they go to watch other sports they’re like normal human beings.

Mate, that is some serious mileage, fair play.

With respect though, I don't buy it. Football fans are, patently, exactly the same as everyone else - a sample section of humanity. You’re not the only who goes to other sporting events and, as has been discussed on here before, many of us have witnessed some shocking violence and thuggery going on at the rugby and cricket. Strangely though, it tends not to be reported.

In fact, it appears the appalling, hateful chants highlighted in this thread have only reached the public attention due to our fellow City fans calling it out, so well done the 99 per cent. It turns out the overwhelming majority of us are rather nice and normal.

Incidentally, I genuinely have no idea who the Yaxley-Lennon fellow is who has been mentioned in this thread, but with that surname I imagine he’ll subscribe to this:

Imagine all the people
Sharing all the world
You may say I'm a dreamer
But I’m not the only one
I hope someday you’ll join us
And the world will live as one

[Mr Popodopolous]

LJ has spoken on it now (the events from Saturday, not the possibly well meaning, but of questionable accuracy petition).

Quote

 

Lee Johnson believes any Bristol City fans caught using racist language should be banned for life from the club as the Robins investigate reports of offensive chanting during the 3-0 loss against Luton Town.

Johnson admits he didn't hear anything at Kenilworth Road as he was focused on the game, but has echoed club owner Steve Lansdown who has vowed to fully investigate the matter and punish any fans who took part with stadium bans.

Johnson, speaking at the pre-match press conference for the visit of Charlton Athletic on Wednesday evening, has faith that any wrongdoing will be picked up and offenders punished by the club.

"Personally I didn't hear anything. I would echo the sentiment of the statement from Steve Lansdown - there is no place for racism in any form in our game. The quicker it is snuffed out the better," he said.

"A full investigation is going to take place and I trust that investigation and hopefully, if any racist language has been used, then those people get banned from football for life.

"It's not something that we want to be associated with at this great football club."

Asked if there was more clubs could do or whether fans are self-policing, Johnson explained that he believes in the City supporters and knows that there are plenty of good people out there.

Johnson expects the police and safety advisers at both clubs to deal with the incidents, with Bristol City regularly filming the away supporters when City are on the road, for social media coverage. The weekend's footage has been handed over to the relevant authorities.

Bristol City and Luton Town are working together to identify any perpetrators with the club receiving a number of complaints from members of the away support.

The alleged incident came on the same day as Yeovil Town's FA Cup qualifier against Haringey Borough was abandoned  amid reports of racial abuse by fans, with two arrests subsequently made.

England players, including Bath-born Tyrone Mings, were also subjected to racist abuse during their Euro 2020 qualifier in Sofia against Bulgaria but remained on the field to win 6-0.

"It's obviously very topical at the moment - there's no denying that there has been an element of racism for a number of years," he said. "But I do believe it's got better.

"That's a personal opinion, as time goes on. But any form of it is unacceptable. The more we can do as football players and managers to educate particularly young supporters that come through the turnstile, they've got to know that that's not acceptable.

"The club do a lot of work as a football club both in the community to educate young kids and also the fans. I believe in the Bristol City supporters - because I've been here a long time and I know there's a lot of good people here.

"If it's proved that there has been any form of racism then everybody will be extremely disappointed with that."

 

[Fatknacker]

14 minutes ago, City Rocker said:

Mate, that is some serious mileage, fair play.

With respect though, I don't buy it. Football fans are, patently, exactly the same as everyone else - a sample section of humanity. You’re not the only who goes to other sporting events and, as has been discussed on here before, many of us have witnessed some shocking violence and thuggery going on at the rugby and cricket. Strangely though, it tends not to be reported.

In fact, it appears the appalling, hateful chants highlighted in this thread have only reached the public attention due to our fellow City fans calling it out, so well done the 99 per cent. It turns out the overwhelming majority of us are rather nice and normal.

Incidentally, I genuinely have no idea who the Yaxley-Lennon fellow is who has been mentioned in this thread, but with that surname I imagine he’ll subscribe to this:

Imagine all the people
Sharing all the world
You may say I'm a dreamer
But I’m not the only one
I hope someday you’ll join us
And the world will live as one

Obviously I’ve missed out on the shocking violence and thuggery at golf, cricket and rugby,  presumably licensing authorities are also unaware which is why they so naively allow supporters of every form of sport other than football, to drink alcohol during the course of a match.

Football is the only sport I’m aware of where supporters are routinely segregated to avoid violence...it’s not an opinion, it’s a fact.

[City Rocker]

2 minutes ago, Fatknacker said:

Obviously I’ve missed out on the shocking violence and thuggery at golf, cricket and rugby,  presumably licensing authorities are also unaware which is why they so naively allow supporters of every form of sport other than football, to drink alcohol during the course of a match.

Football is the only sport I’m aware of where supporters are routinely segregated to avoid violence...it’s not an opinion, it’s a fact.

Well quite.

[RumRed]

1 hour ago, Fatknacker said:

Obviously I’ve missed out on the shocking violence and thuggery at golf, cricket and rugby,  presumably licensing authorities are also unaware which is why they so naively allow supporters of every form of sport other than football, to drink alcohol during the course of a match.

Football is the only sport I’m aware of where supporters are routinely segregated to avoid violence...it’s not an opinion, it’s a fact.

Ever been to the races?

University Rugby games at the Gate?

Golf is a different matter, they just key the other guys Lexus whilst wearing plus fours.

[The Constant Rabbit]

4 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

**** me- while racism clearly is to be dealt with, some of this is well very inaccurate!!

https://www.change.org/p/bristol-city-football-club-stand-up-to-racism-at-bristol-city-fc

It was not a large section in the slightest- it was a minority and debates in numbers as to whether it was a small, medium or large minority.

Where is the mention of a club led investigation? Where is the mention of condemnation not just by say a presenter like Lisa Knights but the owner and the chairman SL. No reference to booing of some of the chants, no reference to widespread condemnation by the majority of fans on social media or elsewhere,

The organisation/Tweet in question, highlighting this.

Granted it's followed by somewhere between 10-15 people and a mere 11 have signed the petition to date but the inaccuracy irritates me!

All we need now is:

A statement of condemnation from the Peoples Front of Judea

A letter from Wolfie Smith

A reference to 'The Battle Of Cable St'

Economic Refugees were so offended by the chanting they want to go home.

Nigel Farage was in the away end.

Nope Not Hate and Antifa are going to 'take' the Dolman next week in retribution.....

 

 

The point has been made, and has turned into the 'endlessly offended on someone elses' behalf', 'it's all brexit's fault' and Bristol is secretly the home of C18  vs  normal peoples views that the chants were bang out of order.

 

Could the mods lock this thread as the pathetic virtue signalling by so many new posters is unbearable. 

Where is the camera phone footage by the outraged?

Where are the Police witnesses?

Which one of you went to a Police Officer, took him to a part of the stand and pointed out the racists in your midst?

Put your hands up now and you will have my eternal gratitude.

The rest of you - leave it to Luton Town, Bristol City and the Police to deal with and stop bickering about who is the most offended.  This is why racism will never end - the nauseating rush of people to be the most outraged - OUTRAGED I TELL YOU - on behalf of other people - whilst doing absolutely **** ing nothing about it while its happening

Enoch Powell even got a mention - ffs what's wrong with some of you people?

[Oh Louie louie]

Now that guy hit the nail right on the head.

Sad thing is anitfa will probaly turn up.

[Dudek123]

Hello everyone.

 

I’ve been lurking on here for over ten years and never felt the need the join but this discussion has  pushed me to join.

 

This will probably be my only post.

 

The MSM have had a monopoly on the public opinion of Tommy Robinson since he came on to the scene. They have manipulated opinions to suit their narrative. Tommy will openly admit that in his younger years he was no angel as he will talk about his hooligan years.  Now, he has kids and the future he sees for those kids is bleak and he feels compelled to speak about that.

 

I have included a YouTube link for Tommy’s oxford union speech where he is given the time to give the facts of his life experience and experiences of others living in close proximity to a dense Muslim population.

 

I challenge anyone to still see things the same way after watching this!

 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_YQ94jFg_4A&t=52s

 

Tommy has had his voice taken away from him on all social media and you can currently find him on the telegram app if you are interested in seeing the issues he is highlighting. 

Or you can visit his website at tr.news.

 

Thanks for reading.

 

 

 

 

[The Constant Rabbit]

@Notbarrymanc  the Rovers emoji proves my point exactly.

You CANNOT STAND anyone with an alternative view. You are right, HAVE to be right 100% of the time - otherwise all the 'Brexit loving racists' that you see on every street corner don't exist and your worldview is wrong.

I believe it was you that bought Enoch Powell into this thread. 

You honestly think that the 'Rivers Of Blood' speech equates to 30 idiots chanting Tommy Robinson?

Really?

 

So besides spout total bollox on here, what did you do at the game? Anything?

Or did you not go? If you didn't go, then why are you posting 15 times in this thread?

People on this thread have called for 2 yr prison sentences, life bans and compared them to Nazi's - I bet half these people chanting about Robinson were either kids or just too thick to even know who he is.

And for that you think that they should go to jail, lose their jobs, their homes, probably their relationships and children.

Really?

 

Racism is a 2 way street - I hope you protest as loudly for the Coptic Christians murdered in their 1000's as you do for the Muslims offended by the incidents on Saturday.

 

Where's your outrage at Black on White crime?  

Genital Mutilation?

The Murder of homosexuals?

The Sultan of Brunei and his new laws?

It's always the thick white working class that get the full-on 'outraged' treatment.

RACISM IS BLOODY RACISM REGARDLESS OF THE COLOUR OF THE VICTIM - If you cannot or WILL NOT  accept that - then you are the PROBLEM not the SOLUTION.

It's like talking to a brick wall with some of you 'anti-fascists', it really is.

 

 

[Redinthehead]

11 minutes ago, SX227 said:

Racism is a 2 way street - I hope you protest as loudly for the Coptic Christians murdered in their 1000's as you do for the Muslims offended by the incidents on Saturday.

 

Where's your outrage at Black on White crime?  

Genital Mutilation?

The Murder of homosexuals?

The Sultan of Brunei and his new laws?

 

 

Are these things happening at Bristol City matches?

 

[BS2 Red]

“We probably ought to stop chants that could be seen as racist”

”YEAH BUT WHAT ABOUT THE SULTAN OF BRUNEI!!!”

[TinMan's left peg]

13 minutes ago, Redinthehead said:

Are these things happening at Bristol City matches?

 

You can’t move in the Landsdown lounge for all the genital mutilation going on  sometimes and I heard that the Sultan of Brunei took away the chips from the dolman market street 

[Cowshed]

9 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

**** me- while racism clearly is to be dealt with, some of this is well very inaccurate!!

https://www.change.org/p/bristol-city-football-club-stand-up-to-racism-at-bristol-city-fc

It was not a large section in the slightest- it was a minority and debates in numbers as to whether it was a small, medium or large minority.

Where is the mention of a club led investigation? Where is the mention of condemnation not just by say a presenter like Lisa Knights but the owner and the chairman SL. No reference to booing of some of the chants, no reference to widespread condemnation by the majority of fans on social media or elsewhere,

The organisation/Tweet in question, highlighting this.

Granted it's followed by somewhere between 10-15 people and a mere 11 have signed the petition to date but the inaccuracy irritates me!

Stand up to Racism are idiots. 

They display a cognitive bias where all in society who do not agree with them are labelled as Fascists. The unfortunate thing is that they are used as a think tank that informs the BBC and the main stream media, and in turn the populace.   

The Bristol City lads who attended the FLA rally last year came from differing backgrounds but were not all exclusively English and white, but according to Stand up to Racism they are racist and fascist. Its an oddball narrative that has consequences. These organisations can ruin peoples lives and reputations with their lies and tactics.