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Is racism a problem at City games?

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5 minutes ago, TinMan's left peg said:

What if it’s tens or hundreds of fans? And if it’s happened on multiple occasions?  I understand your point about penalising clubs for the actions of single fans but I don’t think that’s what @TRL was suggesting 

That’s still punishing players, investors, the Manager and the vast majority of innocent fans, not a method of ‘justice’ I agree with.  

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2 minutes ago, TinMan's left peg said:


I strongly suspect that chanting “paedo” at the Asian family was racially motivated, particularly in the context of the Tommy Robinson chants. 

It clearly is and it’s the message TR and his followers have pushed for a long time. 

The mental contortions some people seem to be going to on here to justify this nonsense is startling.

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47 minutes ago, ChippenhamRed said:

I don’t know what it is about Facebook but it always seems to be the natural home for the illiterate hard-of-thinking.

That and Twitter make even the worst contributions on here seem Nobel prize-winning by comparison.

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5 minutes ago, Redinthehead said:

It clearly is and it’s the message TR and his followers have pushed for a long time. 

The mental contortions some people seem to be going to on here to justify this nonsense is startling.

Sadly I'm not surprised in the slightest. Every single time is the same, be it racism, hooliganism or whatever.

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11 minutes ago, TinMan's left peg said:


I strongly suspect that chanting “paedo” at the Asian family was racially motivated, particularly in the context of the Tommy Robinson chants. 

I strongly suspect the chanting of the paedo was done as in large the fans knew they couldn’t /shouldn’t shout anything racist at him but wanted to offend and upset in the strongest other way possible. These chants started very early in the game whereas the Robinson one in particular was not heard by me until probably around 60 or70 minutes at a guess.

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16 minutes ago, Maesknoll Red said:

That’s still punishing players, investors, the Manager and the vast majority of innocent fans, not a method of ‘justice’ I agree with.  

Interesting one for you.

Koulibaly racist abuse San Siro late December 2018.

Inter Milan sentenced to one game behind closed doors and in addition one game in which their 'Curva' was shut.

Granted the problems in Italy ARE much worse and more entrenched, and I don't known the nature or % of San Siro who were racially abusing the player.

Proportionate...or OTT?

Edited by Mr Popodopolous

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7 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Interesting one for you.

Koulibaly racist abuse San Siro late December 2018.

Inter Milan sentenced to one game behind closed doors and in addition one game in which their 'Curva' was shut.

Granted the problems in Italy ARE much worse and more entrenched, and I don't known the nature or % of San Siro who were racially abusing the player.

Proportionate...or OTT?

Without knowing the context it’s hard to say, whilst that’s still punishing the innocent, it’s a one off game and not a points deduction - which I believe should only happen if the club and not its fans, break laws or football authority rules.

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7 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Twitter has a lot of interesting content too. Good and bad- like many things.

It does, but if you look at the replies to anything the club tweets as an example, probably 90% of it is braindead.

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1 minute ago, Maesknoll Red said:

Without knowing the context it’s hard to say, whilst that’s still punishing the innocent, it’s a one off game and not a points deduction - which I believe should only happen if the club and not it’s fans break laws or football I guess rules.

But one of the laws of football (and the country) is for the players and staff to be able to go to work without being on the end of racial abuse.  The problem is that small fines and slaps on wrists don’t work or at worst give tacit approval to the morons.  

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6 minutes ago, Maesknoll Red said:

Without knowing the context it’s hard to say, whilst that’s still punishing the innocent, it’s a one off game and not a points deduction - which I believe should only happen if the club and not its fans, break laws or football authority rules.

Oh I agree on points deductions, not appropriate for this..

Think there's a wider debate to be had on behind closed doors or partial closure however.

Edited by Mr Popodopolous

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42 minutes ago, TinMan's left peg said:

But one of the laws of football (and the country) is for the players and staff to be able to go to work without being on the end of racial abuse.  The problem is that small fines and slaps on wrists don’t work or at worst give tacit approval to the morons.  

That’s down to the justice system to sort out, I stand by my view, that inflicting draconian punishment on innocent parities, for the actions of others, they have no control over, is wrong.

If a club had been advised of persons breaking the law and they then didn’t take reasonable action to ensure they couldn’t enter the ground, then that would be different and they may then be inviting action.

What if a group of fans (using the term fan, loosely) were stood outside of the clubs grounds and, for instance, racially abused the opposition players (or fans) as they were getting off their coach, should the club be punished for that, should they be punished for fans posting racist or otherwise offensive comments on a SM platform?  Where does the responsibility of the club and the individual begin and end?

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Surprised there’s been no mention of the belter who kept going up and down the walkway near where I was and his various solo chants

My personal favourite was “your kebabs are ****ing sh1t”

Odd chap to say the least - fist bumped the Asian steward who seemed bewildered at one point before starting his next masterpiece

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This is an embarrassment and the fan base are now tarnished nationally. This uncivilised behaviour will cost the club money, and could potentially cost us points through players choosing not to join in the future. 
 

The West Country is considered backwards by the rest of the country and this is exactly why. You people should hang your heads in shame. 
 

Those choosing to condone or trivialise chants through semantics or filibustering are racist. Indirectly racist, maybe, but racist all the same. There is no grey area. 
 

Apropros of nothing, what percentage of those chanting will have voted to leave? 🤔

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20 minutes ago, Notbarrymanc said:

This is an embarrassment and the fan base are now tarnished nationally. This uncivilised behaviour will cost the club money, and could potentially cost us points through players choosing not to join in the future. 
 

The West Country is considered backwards by the rest of the country and this is exactly why. You people should hang your heads in shame. 
 

Those choosing to condone or trivialise chants through semantics or filibustering are racist. Indirectly racist, maybe, but racist all the same. There is no grey area. 
 

Apropros of nothing, what percentage of those chanting will have voted to leave? 🤔

Isn't this a bit of an overreaction?

The decent majority of Bristol City fans don't condone this, more than likely condemn it and sensible people elsewhere will know this!

You raise an interesting point about filibustering and semantics to trivialise, but unconvinced that this is racism.

Don't think Brexit voting patterns and preferences have all that much to do with it.

Edited by Mr Popodopolous
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27 minutes ago, Notbarrymanc said:

This is an embarrassment and the fan base are now tarnished nationally. This uncivilised behaviour will cost the club money, and could potentially cost us points through players choosing not to join in the future. 
 

The West Country is considered backwards by the rest of the country and this is exactly why. You people should hang your heads in shame. 
 

Those choosing to condone or trivialise chants through semantics or filibustering are racist. Indirectly racist, maybe, but racist all the same. There is no grey area. 
 

Apropros of nothing, what percentage of those chanting will have voted to leave? 🤔

What complete and utter tosh.

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I wasn't present at the game yesterday so can not comment fully on what did or did not happen. What I can say is that Luton is the only place out of the many towns and cities I have followed City, where I have been racially abused. The abuse did not happen in the stadium but on the streets surrounding the ground by a local stood on their doorstep, this as a teenager walking down the street with my Grandad in the 04/05 season. With the club going down the route of saying racist language, it seems that things a little more than just chants were going on and that there were racial slurs used or shouted, seems a bit weird of wording, if it was chanting or songs, you would think the wording would be racist chanting. Disappointing that these slurs have taken place and tarnished the club's reputation.

This does not seem to just be a football issue though, since 9/11 and the mainstream emergence of Jihadi terrorist organisations, these sort of incidents and not just at football matches have increased. I remember a game against Leicester at home in the East End not that many years ago, in which there were songs of a racist nature such as I would rather be a Pakistani than a Taff, wheres your poppadom, small town in Asia, England-England etc were all sung, police and stewards were right next to the people starting and singing these chants yet nothing was done and they were left to sing these sort of songs unchallenged, what is the difference between that and what was alleged to have taken place on Saturday. I am not condoning or encouraging this sort of behaviour but just saying there just does not seem to be a consistent approach about how it is handled, correct me if I am wrong but I don't remember there being any arrests or banning orders following that Leicester game.  

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2 hours ago, RedM said:

I strongly suspect the chanting of the paedo was done as in large the fans knew they couldn’t /shouldn’t shout anything racist at him but wanted to offend and upset in the strongest other way possible. These chants started very early in the game whereas the Robinson one in particular was not heard by me until probably around 60 or70 minutes at a guess.

Happened at Brentford- group abuse with one individual being violently obsessed with the abuse. Seems to be a pattern with London orientated games.

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3 hours ago, JulieH said:

There is enough information out there now for fans to realise what is and isn’t racist

Clearly from the responses on this forum that isn't the case. Perhaps you'd care to issue guidelines.

Under Section 5 proving that somebody was being racially abusive or threatening in the knowledge that the subject of such threat or abuse would be cogniscent of said abuse or threat would be difficult to establish at distance. For example, though a fellow supporter might be appalled at a fan's behaviour and might report it, if they themselves were not the target of abuse or threat then that section of the Act wouldn't apply. Somebody in a crowd could easily argue that they were directing their offensive comments to 'the bloke at the back of the terrace at the other end of the pitch in the full knowledge they'd not be able to hear anything shouted at them'. That's why nobody gets nicked when crowds, en masse, create some awful chants.

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Just back from 4 weeks in Japan. Love Bristol City and Bristol Rugby in equal measure. Football can learn a lot from rugby in terms of respect. Nonsense at rugby is self policed. At rugby people get smashed and absolutely no bother. Football is still much more tribal, which can bring out the worst. I love the more boisterous atmosphere at football. Racists can F off though. Don’t need a visa to work in Bulgaria 

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What if the Bulgarians the other night had chanted something along the lines of “you’re a colony of Africa”? (Obviously that would be referring to the number of black players in the team). Anyone think that would be fair game/bantz??

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On 19/10/2019 at 17:56, Andy082005 said:

Thing is mate all these people who have never been to Luton apart from a footy game, or doesn’t know anyone from Luton...really doesn’t understand the place and how it has gone. “You all listen to Tommy Robinson to much”

nah, I’ll listen to my two friends who literally had to move away from the area. Been there a fair few times myself, and it really is shocking 

Intrigued to know how they were "forced" out?

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22 minutes ago, Murraysrightplum said:

What if the Bulgarians the other night had chanted something along the lines of “you’re a colony of Africa”? (Obviously that would be referring to the number of black players in the team). Anyone think that would be fair game/bantz??

That is abusing black players though isn't it, and obviously so.

Singing "you're a small town in Asia" aimed at generally white fans is "bantz" as you put it (in my opinion), and as I have said most of those singing it will not see it as being racist at all, regardless of anyones view on it. Singing "we can see you holding hands" at Brighton fans is also "bantz" and in no way homophobic (in my opinion), but it doesn't stop some saying it is. 

People are trying to see things that just aren't there (on all subjects, not just racism). Mendy/Silva, Danny Baker fiasco, but still nothing to see when it is Jo Brand about throwing acid in someones face or Madonna saying the White House needs bombing because a certain Mr Trump is in it - no doubt all these people were up in arms on those issues?

It is all about "I am holier than thou" unless it doesn't suit the narrative.

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On 19/10/2019 at 18:19, Andy082005 said:

Robinson is a knob head. But criticising an ideology isn't racist. We've made up a word for this....I believe it's 'islamaphobic'

Robinson is a ****, but let's not kid ourselves and believe that integration with Islam is proving to be successful in this country. It's not 

Anyway....**** all that. This is a football page....back to chatting about how shit we were today 

As i said many times before. It was working perfectly well until we went and destroyed iraq...... then syria... then Libya... Then that started a mass of people coming to this country... many of whom were angry....

Before iraq, you had'nt heard of islamic terrorism in this country.

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On 19/10/2019 at 18:17, famouslastword said:

Once again i will reiterate where any of that in the link is racism. There isn’t any. 

Being islamaphobic (which is a made up word) doesn’t mean your racist. It means you have a negative view point of the religion of Islam. 

 

Just like many many people have a negative view point of Christianity. Or an atheist who believes there isn’t a god. 

belter

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10 hours ago, wood_red said:

What complete and utter tosh.

I’ve just looked through your posts. You’re a Robinson apologist. And you’re trying to dictate what is and isn’t racist. 
 

A pejorative statement that highlights a difference in skin colour is racist. Ergo ‘small town in Asia’, is racist.
 

Tommy Robinson is a racist. It’s quite clear. Here he is, not only being a racist and a drug dealer, but also a bit of a ********:

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/tommy-robinson-video-drugs-cocaine-islam-far-right-israel-palestine-edl-a8776991.html

 

If you think that his behaviour is in any way acceptable I would advise you to review your life choices. 

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32 minutes ago, wood_red said:

That is abusing black players though isn't it, and obviously so.

Singing "you're a small town in Asia" aimed at generally white fans is "bantz" as you put it (in my opinion), and as I have said most of those singing it will not see it as being racist at all, regardless of anyones view on it. Singing "we can see you holding hands" at Brighton fans is also "bantz" and in no way homophobic (in my opinion), but it doesn't stop some saying it is. 

People are trying to see things that just aren't there (on all subjects, not just racism). Mendy/Silva, Danny Baker fiasco, but still nothing to see when it is Jo Brand about throwing acid in someones face or Madonna saying the White House needs bombing because a certain Mr Trump is in it - no doubt all these people were up in arms on those issues?

It is all about "I am holier than thou" unless it doesn't suit the narrative.

You’re wrong and you need to get into the 21st century because your archaic opinions are no longer acceptable.

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Recism is part of football how we take the piss out of the Welsh when we play Cardiff and Swansea and even the chant 'I want to go home this place is a s---hole' can be said to be racist, it does go on to be more graphic and we have a racist incident.

What City fans sang was not to bad but abusing stewards because of their race is totally unacceptable.      

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Several themes keep cropping up amongst the apologists on here, one of which seems to be “I’m not a racist I’m just critical of Islam, that’s not racist”.  

- A football match is not the place to be having mass theological discussions.  Football chants are not the best medium for such debates... “we are the boys in red and white, we like to drink and we also believe that organised religion is the opiate of the masses and are concerned for the freedoms of minorities in theocracies in the Middle East”.  Just not very catchy is it 

 

- How did all the people chanting abuse at the Asian family know exactly which religion (if any) they adhere to and which particular views they hold?  
 

- Yes Islamaphobia is racism (white Muslims don’t seem to be targeted so much funnily enough) and is very different from criticism of religion.  Hitler didn’t really care whether the Jews he murdered were agnostic or even atheists.  He wasn’t annoyed about a theological difference of opinion.  

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12 minutes ago, foghornred said:

Recism is part of football how we take the piss out of the Welsh when we play Cardiff and Swansea and even the chant 'I want to go home this place is a s---hole' can be said to be racist, it does go on to be more graphic and we have a racist incident.

What City fans sang was not to bad but abusing stewards because of their race is totally unacceptable.      

Eh??

Edited by Mr Popodopolous
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4 minutes ago, foghornred said:

Recism is part of football how we take the piss out of the Welsh when we play Cardiff and Swansea and even the chant 'I want to go home this place is a s---hole' can be said to be racist, it does go on to be more graphic and we have a racist incident.

What City fans sang was not to bad but abusing stewards because of their race is totally unacceptable.      

With respect when you “take the piss out of the Welsh” you are not being racist.  And racism should not “be a part of football”.  

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11 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Isn't this a bit of an overreaction?

The decent majority of Bristol City fans don't condone this, more than likely condemn it and sensible people elsewhere will know this!

You raise an interesting point about filibustering and semantics to trivialise, but unconvinced that this is racism.

Don't think Brexit voting patterns and preferences have all that much to do with it.

I don’t think it is an overreaction. There is a 0 tolerance  approach to racism and rightly so.
 

This behaviour will cost city money - fact. I will not bring my children to a racist environment, so that is a minor loss. My company, who currently have sponsorships with 5 sports teams and are looking to sponsor more, will not be associated with racism. That is a much more substantial loss. 
 

We’re recruiting from fields afar - if the next Massengo goes on google and sees these reports he’s going to think twice. For that matter, if Dwight Gayle reads these reports he’s going to go to a normal team instead. 
 

But more than that, on a human level this behaviour is just unacceptable and the dinosaurs that promote it need to be brought to account for their actions. 
 

And finally, I’m not saying all brexiteers are racist, but all racists are definitely brexiteers. 

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2 minutes ago, Notbarrymanc said:

I’ve just looked through your posts. You’re a Robinson apologist. And you’re trying to dictate what is and isn’t racist. 
 

A pejorative statement that highlights a difference in skin colour is racist. Ergo ‘small town in Asia’, is racist.
 

Tommy Robinson is a racist. It’s quite clear. Here he is, not only being a racist and a drug dealer, but also a bit of a ********:

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/tommy-robinson-video-drugs-cocaine-islam-far-right-israel-palestine-edl-a8776991.html

 

If you think that his behaviour is in any way acceptable I would advise you to review your life choices. 

Ah bless, someone has a different view so they have to be branded with as a Robinson apologist!! I am disappointed you haven't called me a "far right bigot, Nazi" and racist"  all in one go etc etc. Just because I am not a far left opinionated snowflake person, that then in turn makes me automatically a Tommy Robinson "fan" in your view because I agree with some of the things he has said in the past. I also agree with many things Trump says - but plenty of what they both say is ridiculous. I would also agree with what many people who vote Labour say, and also disagree with a lot of it - it is allowed you know. 

What it is actually called is simply having a different viewpoint, but nowadays nobody is allowed to say anything different than the "left" as they are wrong regardless of what it in the narrative of the far left.

You can have a view, and I can have a view. You just don't like it because it is different to yours, so the easy thing to do is call people what you want that suits your own narrative.

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2 minutes ago, Notbarrymanc said:

I don’t think it is an overreaction. There is a 0 tolerance  approach to racism and rightly so.
 

This behaviour will cost city money - fact. I will not bring my children to a racist environment, so that is a minor loss. My company, who currently have sponsorships with 5 sports teams and are looking to sponsor more, will not be associated with racism. That is a much more substantial loss. 
 

We’re recruiting from fields afar - if the next Massengo goes on google and sees these reports he’s going to think twice. For that matter, if Dwight Gayle reads these reports he’s going to go to a normal team instead. 
 

But more than that, on a human level this behaviour is just unacceptable and the dinosaurs that promote it need to be brought to account for their actions. 
 

And finally, I’m not saying all brexiteers are racist, but all racists are definitely brexiteers. 

I agree- zero tolerance to racism is the way forward.

How often does this happen at AG? Answer, well I don't know because I can't say I've heard it! Of course, it can cost sponsorship.

You are right, but all clubs have a mindless minority. I see where you are coming from.

Agreed- absolutely.

Debate for Non Football Chat IMO.

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The only positive from this, is that with Luton playing in a small stadium and away tickets not making general sale, should the authorities (or club) decide that the behaviour of some supporters no longer be welcome at Ashton Gate, they should be easily identified and whatever action is deemed appropriate can be taken.

If that means a fair number are excluded from games, I won't be weeping about it. If some people reflect on what they thought was banter and understand that their behaviour made a lot of people uncomfortable and learn from it, then society benefits.

It's a football match at the end of the day, not a Nuremberg rally. People attended to be entertained and hope that the multi-national team, of many religions, representing our City, win the game.

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3 minutes ago, wood_red said:

Ah bless, someone has a different view so they have to be branded with as a Robinson apologist!! I am disappointed you haven't called me a "far right bigot, Nazi" and racist"  all in one go etc etc. Just because I am not a far left opinionated snowflake person, that then in turn makes me automatically a Tommy Robinson "fan" in your view because I agree with some of the things he has said in the past. I also agree with many things Trump says - but plenty of what they both say is ridiculous. I would also agree with what many people who vote Labour say, and also disagree with a lot of it - it is allowed you know. 

What it is actually called is simply having a different viewpoint, but nowadays nobody is allowed to say anything different than the "left" as they are wrong regardless of what it in the narrative of the far left.

You can have a view, and I can have a view. You just don't like it because it is different to yours, so the easy thing to do is call people what you want that suits your own narrative.

I haven’t called you anything. I’ve highlighted why your views are wrong. 
 

If you cannot see the holistic position that Tommy Robinson has placed himself into then I feel sorry for you. You’re susceptible and clearly don’t realise that you’re being manipulated. Understand, though, that a person that brags about selling cocaine, and uses language like ‘paki’ is no role model.
 

Also understand that cherry picking a persons soundbites while deliberately ignoring blatant bigotry is being an apologist. 

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Having grown up with terrible racist abuse at games, I had wrongly, clearly, assumed that it was something from the past. All of this has been so sad to go through and read and leaves me disappointed , sad and frustrated that racism is getting worse not better. I personally have not heard any racist comment for well over a decade, and if this becomes more widespread I would stop going to games. It is not something BCFC should ever be associated with or to tolerate. I hope the people responsible are found and banned. 

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2 minutes ago, billywedlock said:

Having grown up with terrible racist abuse at games, I had wrongly, clearly, assumed that it was something from the past. All of this has been so sad to go through and read and leaves me disappointed , sad and frustrated that racism is getting worse not better. I personally have not heard any racist comment for well over a decade, and if this becomes more widespread I would stop going to games. It is not something BCFC should ever be associated with or to tolerate. I hope the people responsible are found and banned. 

I know how you feel mate. The one bright point I’m clinging onto though is the amount of people calling it out.  If that translates into change on the terraces then we could turn this into a positive.  

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11 hours ago, Notbarrymanc said:

This is an embarrassment and the fan base are now tarnished nationally. This uncivilised behaviour will cost the club money, and could potentially cost us points through players choosing not to join in the future. 
 

The West Country is considered backwards by the rest of the country and this is exactly why. You people should hang your heads in shame. 
 

Those choosing to condone or trivialise chants through semantics or filibustering are racist. Indirectly racist, maybe, but racist all the same. There is no grey area. 
 

Apropros of nothing, what percentage of those chanting will have voted to leave? 🤔

Quick lets tarnish all leave voters with the racist card as well! unbelievable! 

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@Furious Custard

Given that it happened away from home, I'm not sure a home game behind closed doors is correct.

Some sort of away restrictions maybe for the next high profile game? Away stewards for certain games to help to more easily identify would be troublemakers- but also to show, to demonstrate that the club are doing all that they reasonably can.

Edited by Mr Popodopolous

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39 minutes ago, Notbarrymanc said:

You’re wrong and you need to get into the 21st century because your archaic opinions are no longer acceptable.

Some might reasonably argue the same citing abhorrent, irrational, restrictive and oppressive religious adherence, which in the case of Islam appears stuck somewhere around the late 8th Century CE (though Christianity and the rest aren't that further advanced.)

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30 minutes ago, Bristol Rob said:

The only positive from this, is that with Luton playing in a small stadium and away tickets not making general sale, should the authorities (or club) decide that the behaviour of some supporters no longer be welcome at Ashton Gate, they should be easily identified and whatever action is deemed appropriate can be taken.

If that means a fair number are excluded from games, I won't be weeping about it. If some people reflect on what they thought was banter and understand that their behaviour made a lot of people uncomfortable and learn from it, then society benefits.

It's a football match at the end of the day, not a Nuremberg rally. People attended to be entertained and hope that the multi-national team, of many religions, representing our City, win the game.

Because of the way tickets were sold, online suddenly and sold out instantly, many tickets ended up being passed around or sold on. City have no idea who ended up with them unfortunately.

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3 minutes ago, RedM said:

Because of the way tickets were sold, online suddenly and sold out instantly, many tickets ended up being passed around or sold on. City have no idea who ended up with them unfortunately.

This- absolutely agree with this.

Was thinking of making similar points myself on Twitter but thought better of it in case it's picked up on in some media outlet! However yes, this sounds spot on.

Edited by Mr Popodopolous

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11 minutes ago, Notbarrymanc said:

So you voted to remain?

I didn't vote.... i was also born in greece and then migrated to this country as a child from Europe. I Just think to say that 52% of the country is racist is a little far fetched just because they have a different viewpoint to yours! 

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