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Is racism a problem at City games?

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11 minutes ago, BTRFTG said:

Some might reasonably argue the same citing abhorrent, irrational, restrictive and oppressive religious adherence, which in the case of Islam appears stuck somewhere around the late 8th Century CE (though Christianity and the rest aren't that further advanced.)

Which football teams are citing these views?

 

How in any way is it relevant?

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Even if we take this thread as a sample size of City fans, there are a handful of people on here that are willing to do the mental gymnastics to justify racism at football matches. They might not openly say "it's okay to discriminate against black people", but when you try to justify it by saying "football has always been this way" or "we do it to the welsh/scottish", then you're helping to normalise this kind of behaviour.

I am absolutely disgusted in my club, and in the westcountry in general. In one weekend, a mere four days after the country slated Bulgaria for open racism, we see at least three separate events in our country - two of which are in the immediate area we're based in.

The one positive is that Yeovil took the right step in abandoning the match, and I felt that their manager spoke well after the match to illustrate that this kind of behaviour should not be tolerated. I can only hope our club takes a similar approach, and does everything in their power to find those involved in the chants and to ban them from attending any football matches. To be frank, while I think it's great that our chairman has spoke out, saying that "we'll investigate" is a blanket gesture that means **** all.

Call it hyperbole all you want, but this kind of stuff sets a football club back several years. Yeovil will be remembered as a racist club for years, and for those that read the Bristol City news we'll probably be branded in the same light. IMO, Bristol City should be doing everything it can to be an inclusive club, and this should the catalyst to really double-down on that goal.

Finally, if these thick ***** are caught, I hope that they are referred to the police, and are forced to go through some kind of educational programme/scheme to help them learn the error of their ways, and to learn that Britain is a multi-cultural and diverse country. IMO, it's the only way to fight the sheer amount of ignorance we see nowadays, and simply punishing people for holding negative views is only going to make things worse. Teach them a lesson by literally teaching them a lesson, and let them re-integrate into society and football as changed people.

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4 minutes ago, Notbarrymanc said:

Which football teams are citing these views?

 

How in any way is it relevant?

Yes, quite.

Political views or bigoted views or otherwise should be left at the door when coming to football- IMO.

Having said that IF people express these views at games, then it makes them easier to identify and root out- either banning, education, prosecution or some combination of all 3.

Edited by Mr Popodopolous
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52 minutes ago, foghornred said:

Recism is part of football how we take the piss out of the Welsh when we play Cardiff and Swansea and even the chant 'I want to go home this place is a s---hole' can be said to be racist  

With all due respect I don’t really think you understand what racism is. 

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3 minutes ago, famouslastword said:

I didn't vote.... i was also born in greece and then migrated to this country as a child from Europe. I Just think to say that 52% of the country is racist is a little far fetched just because they have a different viewpoint to yours! 

I don’t think I did say that though did I mate. 

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21 minutes ago, RedM said:

Because of the way tickets were sold, online suddenly and sold out instantly, many tickets ended up being passed around or sold on. City have no idea who ended up with them unfortunately.

Hadn't given that much thought. Either way, I'm sure there is sufficient CCTV if they are seeking to identify people. 

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3 minutes ago, City Rocker said:

Agreed mate. Early in this thread I mentioned that I hadn't heard overt racism at City for about 30 years. And I meant it, I had been genuinely pleased about the general lack of racial bigotry on show at home and away games since the 90's (with a handful of isolated exceptions). Well now I look a bit daft don't I? 

As a child of the triumphant 2 Tone movement, which had no truck with party politics, I'm bemused that a couple of posters on here are suggesting that taking an anti-racist stance is 'left wing'. Anti-racism is not the preserve of the Left, neither is it 'politically correct'. 

It is just correct.
 

If I could like this twice, I would do.

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7 minutes ago, Notbarrymanc said:

Which football teams are citing these views?

 

How in any way is it relevant?

Your quote was used to call out a poster for not holding the same brainwashed zealotry as yourself. That's the issue with politically correct fascism, others aren't allowed to hold contrary views, which of course is a fundamental principle of major religions ( thou shalt have no other God before Me, indeed....) You suggested the poster join the 21st Century and I highlighted the main reason Saturday happened and will continue to happen is because, as that poster suggested, folks who once used to be sensible enough to see the wheat from the chaff are now coward for fear of not blindly following diktat.

City made the press because of the 'he said - she said' at Haringey. The FA will make something of it because they think they'll have to, but amazing in these days where phones and cameras are omnipresent nobody has yet captured any of the reported incidents. I've no doubt one or two Yeovil fans made reprehensible remarks to some Haringey players, but sufficient for it to escalate to this? Some say that reaction was only in response to the keeper spraying fans with his water bottle. Either way abuse not so bad as to prevent the offended keeper first attempting to save the penalty.....

Methinks I'll read again Wolfe's 'Bonfire of the Vanities' - hard to conceive these days it was written as satire......

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48 minutes ago, Notbarrymanc said:

Is the birthplace of the EDL a racist hot spot? 🤔

I agree with a lot of what you are saying BM but you can’t tarnish a whole city as racist just because that ***t Yaxley Lennon was born and raised there........

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18 minutes ago, BTRFTG said:

Your quote was used to call out a poster for not holding the same brainwashed zealotry as yourself. That's the issue with politically correct fascism, others aren't allowed to hold contrary views, which of course is a fundamental principle of major religions ( thou shalt have no other God before Me, indeed....) You suggested the poster join the 21st Century and I highlighted the main reason Saturday happened and will continue to happen is because, as that poster suggested, folks who once used to be sensible enough to see the wheat from the chaff are now coward for fear of not blindly following diktat.

City made the press because of the 'he said - she said' at Haringey. The FA will make something of it because they think they'll have to, but amazing in these days where phones and cameras are omnipresent nobody has yet captured any of the reported incidents. I've no doubt one or two Yeovil fans made reprehensible remarks to some Haringey players, but sufficient for it to escalate to this? Some say that reaction was only in response to the keeper spraying fans with his water bottle. Either way abuse not so bad as to prevent the offended keeper first attempting to save the penalty.....

Methinks I'll read again Wolfe's 'Bonfire of the Vanities' - hard to conceive these days it was written as satire......

You seem to be trivialising racism. You also show a complete lack of empathy. 

 

Yeovil fans did not do some 'he said she said’. They committed deplorable actions and will be vilified as a result. Don’t try and protect or support this behaviour as it brings you down to their level. 
 

This is not PC gone mad, and this is not over reaction. Enoch Powell should be at the forefront of people’s minds as we are on a slippery slope if we accept this sort of behaviour. 

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@JulieH / Others

The point i was trying to make was,

If someone went up to a welsh person and went

You stupid welsh sheep shagging ****

and then someone went to to someone who was Welsh and had an Asian appearance

You stupid welsh “insert race related comment” sheep shagging ****

Are both offensive? Why does it only become offensive when race for example is mentioned.

The same with if it was

You stupid welsh “Insert homophobic comment” sheep shagging ****

Surely it’s all offensive?

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Racism still happens at footy, still rife in society. Deidhou got called an effing n word by some nob somewhere behind me last year, political climate means people feel comfortable with spouting their small minded views.

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2 hours ago, Notbarrymanc said:

I don’t think it is an overreaction. There is a 0 tolerance  approach to racism and rightly so.
 

This behaviour will cost city money - fact. I will not bring my children to a racist environment, so that is a minor loss. My company, who currently have sponsorships with 5 sports teams and are looking to sponsor more, will not be associated with racism. That is a much more substantial loss. 
 

We’re recruiting from fields afar - if the next Massengo goes on google and sees these reports he’s going to think twice. For that matter, if Dwight Gayle reads these reports he’s going to go to a normal team instead. 
 

But more than that, on a human level this behaviour is just unacceptable and the dinosaurs that promote it need to be brought to account for their actions. 
 

And finally, I’m not saying all brexiteers are racist, but all racists are definitely brexiteers. 

Tosh. Labours anti-semites vote? 

Voting remain is a racist vote. Most of Europe is white.The rest of the World that the EU discriminates against is not. It just as crass a notion as your last line.

A quick google finds this thread -  

The thread was prior to Brexit. It was banter to some then, contentious to others and racist to others. There were other threads similar to this  years before it. Brexit? Give it a rest.

Edited by Cowshed

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41 minutes ago, Notbarrymanc said:

You seem to be trivialising racism. You also show a complete lack of empathy. 

 

Yeovil fans did not do some 'he said she said’. They committed deplorable actions and will be vilified as a result. Don’t try and protect or support this behaviour as it brings you down to their level. 
 

This is not PC gone mad, and this is not over reaction. Enoch Powell should be at the forefront of people’s minds as we are on a slippery slope if we accept this sort of behaviour. 

Now that is a very confused response.

You accuse me of triviality but demonstrate not how that to be the case.

You appear to have more evidence of what happened at Haringey than has otherwise been reported; I trust you've sent this to the authorities such any miscreants might be punished?

You reference Powell, one presumes in particular his speech quoting Virgil, though I'm not sure your reasons for believing him to be at the forefront of people's minds would necessarily accord with some of those chanting Saturday. Famously in that speech he made clear all citizens must be treated equally and his concern that without controls "the native" would end up being  the discriminated. Should you bother to read the text of his speech you'll find many of his predictions prescient, notwithstanding many white racists used his platform to 'justify' their own, perverted beliefs. 

As to the slippery slope, we commenced down that years ago. Your own moral compass appears subject to an inquistion as to reasons and motives for behaving in one lawful manner rather than another? I wonder where I once read that?

Edited by BTRFTG

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2 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

Tosh. Labours anti-semites vote? 

Voting remain is a racist vote. Most of Europe is white.The rest of the World that the EU discriminates against is not. It just as crass a notion as your last line.

I quick google finds this thread -  

The thread was prior to Brexit. It was banter to some then, contentious to others and racist to others. There were other threads similar to this  years before it. Brexit? Give it a rest.

Good god. I’ve seen it all now! 

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15 minutes ago, AshtonPark said:

@JulieH / Others

The point i was trying to make was,

 

If someone went up to a welsh person and went

 

You stupid welsh sheep shagging ****

 

and then someone went to to someone who was Welsh and had an Asian appearance

 

You stupid welsh “insert race related comment” sheep shagging ****

 

Are both offensive? Why does it only become offensive when race for example is mentioned.

 

The same with if it was

 

You stupid welsh “Insert homophobic comment” sheep shagging ****

 

Surely it’s all offensive?

 

They are all offensive.

But only one of those examples is racist. Only one was homophobic. Whereas all of them were xenophobic towards the Welsh.

As soon as you add a racist word in, it becomes racist. As soon as you add a homophobic word in, it becomes homophobic.

The reason the Welsh things are not (usually) racist is because a white Englishman saying something to a white Welshman is not a racist statement. It’s certainly offensive and xenophobic though.

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3 minutes ago, BTRFTG said:

Now that is a very confused response.

You accuse me of triviality but demonstrate not how that to be the case.

You appear to have more evidence of what happened at Haringey than has otherwise been reported; I trust you've sent this to the authorities such any miscreants might be punished?

You reference Powell, one presumes in particular his speech quoting Virgil, though I'm not sure your reasons for believing him to be at the forefront of people's minds would necessarily accord with some of those chanting Saturday. Famously in that speech he made clear all citizens must be treated equally and his concern that without controls "the native" would end up being  the duscriminated. Should you bother to read the text of his speech you'll find many of his predictions prescient, notwithstanding many white racists used his platform to 'justify' their own, perverted beliefs. 

As to the slippery slope, we commenced down that years ago. Your own moral compass appears subject to an inquistion as to reasons and motives for behaving in one lawful manner rather than another? I wonder where I once read that?

What are you doing? :facepalm:
 

Once you get into a conversation with someone who defends Enoch Powell you know it’s time to get out.

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2 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

@Furious Custard

Given that it happened away from home, I'm not sure a home game behind closed doors is correct.

Some sort of away restrictions maybe for the next high profile game? Away stewards for certain games to help to more easily identify would be troublemakers- but also to show, to demonstrate that the club are doing all that they reasonably can.

I understand your point , but in my opinion it needs to be dealt with in the strongest way possible or it's going to have little effect. I don't think more stewards or more policing is going to change the behaviour of these people. However if all their friends and supporters around them are telling them they need to stop , it is going to have a much longer lasting effect. They need to know they arent welcome here or in society any more. 

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16 minutes ago, lenred said:

Good god. I’ve seen it all now! 

Exactly. Its as crass as stating all racists vote leave which is what another poster stated using Will Self's original quote.

 

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1 minute ago, Cowshed said:

Exactly. Its as crass as stating all racists vote leave which is what another poster stated using Will Self's original quote.

 

Except it’s not. But this is a football related thread so I’ll not go any further here on that. 

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3 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

Exactly. Its as crass as stating all racists vote leave which is what another poster stated using Will Self's original quote.

 

We can do a quick straw poll if you want to tell us how you voted?

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3 hours ago, wood_red said:

That is abusing black players though isn't it, and obviously so.

Singing "you're a small town in Asia" aimed at generally white fans is "bantz" as you put it (in my opinion), and as I have said most of those singing it will not see it as being racist at all, regardless of anyones view on it. Singing "we can see you holding hands" at Brighton fans is also "bantz" and in no way homophobic (in my opinion), but it doesn't stop some saying it is. 

People are trying to see things that just aren't there (on all subjects, not just racism). Mendy/Silva, Danny Baker fiasco, but still nothing to see when it is Jo Brand about throwing acid in someones face or Madonna saying the White House needs bombing because a certain Mr Trump is in it - no doubt all these people were up in arms on those issues?

It is all about "I am holier than thou" unless it doesn't suit the narrative.

So it’s racism only if there at playersof that ethnicity playing in the game? Your comment defies any logic. In my example that would be generally white Bulgarian fans ‘insulting’ generally white England fans by saying they live in a place inhabited by lots of black people. Insinuating that is a bad thing. Pretty good example

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27 minutes ago, Notbarrymanc said:

We can do a quick straw poll if you want to tell us how you voted?

Did you have a view on the thread titled small town in Asia from 2012?

Brexit? 

 

27 minutes ago, lenred said:

Except it’s not. But this is a football related thread so I’ll not go any further here on that. 

Yes it is crass. The topic was brought into this thread by another poster so I commented.

Edited by Cowshed

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22 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

Did you have a view on the thread titled small town in Asia from 2012?

Brexit? 

What are you going on about?

 

I didn’t see the thread in 2012. Obviously the chant was racist then and still is now. 

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but a thread in 2013.

One in 2010 too- both v Leicester but cannot find the latter right now- both certainly predated Brexit but especially the 2010 one. Could the Leicester thread about the thread on here, be our own NickJ, common name or username though it is?

https://www.foxestalk.co.uk/topic/69406-leicester-views-wanted-from-bristol-city-fan/

Also.

Related again to that one, ie the 2010 one.

Edited by Mr Popodopolous

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1 hour ago, Notbarrymanc said:

What are you doing? :facepalm:
 

Once you get into a conversation with someone who defends Enoch Powell you know it’s time to get out.

And therein lies the issue.

You're happy to point the finger provided others may not hold an opinion contrary to your own. That's facism.

You choose to believe what you wish to make your point, save of course that wasn't actually what Powell said and your interpretation is as repugnant as the racists who chose to jump on his bandwagon. Not your Eyeless in Gaza beliefs might ever contenance otherwise. In such case I agree further exchange to be pointless.

 

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As I said on something like page 9, call something racist, and everyone wants to argue the toss, about degrees of offence, surely we can all agree it is selfish behaviour and therefore moronic.

But reference "Small Town in Asia". Everyone knows the implication. It isn't banter. In sheep shagging the perceived slight is that you shag sheep. In this one the is that you're simply Asian FFS.

I think it's interesting that people don't go to Millwall or Crystal Palace and sing "Small Town in Africa", when both areas have more afro-carribean people (c.35%+) than Luton has Asian people.

Not only in both cases are we talking about English citizens, the reason you don't get the "banter" against black people is thankfully role models in football, music, TV have diluted such bigotry.

But Asian's lack role models in popular culture and remain the last outpost of fair game prejudice, particularly in football where they're not easily identified with, even if plenty watch the sport.

Katie Hopkins wouldn't dream of walking in St.Pauls or Old Kent Road to film West Indians with captions like "England 2019". She might have done 30 years ago. She does regularly for Asians.

It should be a clue that "Small Town in Asia" stereotypes is only considered  "banter" by people that have legitimised bigotry of Asians that they've long since moved on from for everyone else. 

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9 minutes ago, BTRFTG said:

And therein lies the issue.

You're happy to point the finger provided others may not hold an opinion contrary to your own. That's facism.

You choose to believe what you wish to make your point, save of course that wasn't actually what Powell said and your interpretation is as repugnant as the racists who chose to jump on his bandwagon. Not your Eyeless in Gaza beliefs might ever contenance otherwise. In such case I agree further exchange to be pointless.

 

I spend plenty of time having healthy discussions on a variety of platforms. I’m just not willing to spend my time entertaining the belligerent, and I see no benefit in talking to racists. 

 

You might not think Powell was a racist. You are antiquated, and you are wrong, and you’re old enough to know better. 
 

Wait a sec - I’ve just reread your posts in Rees-Mogg’s voice - it couldn’t be, could it??

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Small town in Africa doesn't rhythm Ole.

Won't roll off the cords.

"But reference "Small Town in Asia". Everyone knows the implication. It isn't banter"

Yes it is.

Just like small Town In Wales is.

Both have a perceived slight.

Or they don't depending on perception.

I find small in Asia offensive to the mind cos decades later from small town in Wales Wurzel hasn't come back with a better come back yet.

That's it.

There is no malice.

Boo hoo .. crap banter.

Grow some or will that offend those transitioning .. !!

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6 minutes ago, Notbarrymanc said:

I spend plenty of time having healthy discussions on a variety of platforms. I’m just not willing to spend my time entertaining the belligerent, and I see no benefit in talking to racists. 

 

You might not think Powell was a racist. You are antiquated, and you are wrong, and you’re old enough to know better. 
 

Wait a sec - I’ve just reread your posts in Rees-Mogg’s voice - it couldn’t be, could it??

It'll be whatever you imagine it to be. You make swathing statements based on nothing other than your prejudice and, laughably, don't even have the capacity to recognise as such.

 

 

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10 minutes ago, BTRFTG said:

It'll be whatever you imagine it to be. You make swathing statements based on nothing other than your prejudice and, laughably, don't even have the capacity to recognise as such.

 

 

I’m not sure what swathing statement you’re referring to, but if it’s whether Powell was a racist, it’s not a prejudice, it’s an opinion provided by degree level education on that period of time. 
 

Anyway, you’ve got somewhere to be matey

 

rees-mogg-lying-down.jpg?itok=ARDf8QSE

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4 minutes ago, Notbarrymanc said:

I’m not sure what swathing statement you’re referring to, but if it’s whether Powell was a racist, it’s not a prejudice, it’s an opinion

Make your mind up. Two posts back you presented that as fact whilst being disparaging as to my years, of which your quality education will have highlighted that to be a protected characteristic under the Equality Act  (2010). Glass houses, eh?

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Im telling you now that the people of st pauls wouldnt attack a women in her 40s for having a camera or a t shirt saying england 2019.

If you lot really think that, thats really sad.

You aint got a clue what you are talking about.

Somebody would step in down there quick time, and if anybody did attack a women, watch what would happen next to them!

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Different organisation and significantly worse, plus as well as larger issues, no doubt, but would be interested to hear the thoughts of @The Gasbuster or @Vincent Vega given they implied UEFA only fine a few grand etc.

https://www.foxsports.com/soccer/story/serbia-punished-by-uefa-for-racist-fan-incidents-102119?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

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1 hour ago, Oh Louie louie said:

Why couldnt you walk through st pauls with say a england 2019 t shirt or sign?

1 hour ago, Oh Louie louie said:

Im telling you now that the people of st pauls wouldnt attack a women in her 40s for having a camera or a t shirt saying england 2019.

If you lot really think that, thats really sad.

It's hardly worth replying if you're that unable to read what I wrote but you've literally invented your own point to argue with - that has nothing to do with what I said.

I was referring to the trend of certain "right wing commentators" like Katie Hopkins to film and tweet videos of certain ethnic areas (but almost always Asian) and then caption them ON SOCIAL MEDIA with "England 2019" as if that is in some way something to be depressed or disgusted about, or some reason for being ashamed that it is England (quite the irony for so called patriots).

I made a point that she wouldn't do it about St. Pauls (and no t-shirt was involved, you've literally imagined that), not because she couldn't walk through the place but because we've moved on from such prejudice about people of Afro-Carribbean origin or their neighbourhoods (believe me, I live in Lewisham, it's great). But she does it for Asians and people sing about them too.

It's not a coincidence.

Anyway, it's whatever, I don't think you're going to get it either way. Might be easier to carry on as you are.

Edited by Olé

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3 hours ago, Notbarrymanc said:

What are you going on about?

 

I didn’t see the thread in 2012. Obviously the chant was racist then and still is now. 

Your posts linking alleged racism at a Bristol City match and Brexit. Then your deflection. 

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54 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Different organisation and significantly worse, plus as well as larger issues, no doubt, but would be interested to hear the thoughts of @The Gasbuster or @Vincent Vega given they implied UEFA only fine a few grand etc.

https://www.foxsports.com/soccer/story/serbia-punished-by-uefa-for-racist-fan-incidents-102119?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

Not enough for me I'm afraid,  30k is insulting .  Ban them from international football bare minimum or at least the tournament they're competing in. Token gesture yet again by gutless UEFA.

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3 minutes ago, Vincent Vega said:

Not enough for me I'm afraid,  30k is insulting .  Ban them from international football bare minimum or at least the tournament they're competing in. Token gesture yet again by gutless UEFA.

You missed the game behind closed doors bit?

Quote

NYON, Switzerland (AP) — UEFA has punished Serbia for racist fan incidents by ordering the stadium to be closed for its next home game in European Championship qualifying.

I agree, the fine aspect is pointless.

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19 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

You missed the game behind closed doors bit?

I agree, the fine aspect is pointless.

Pointless and not far enough . Honestly I find it insulting. Playing a game behind close doors is going to achieve what exactly  ?

https://inews.co.uk/sport/football/uefa-racism-protocol-sanctions-punishments-full-list-clubs-fa-3-point-system-815236

Edited by Vincent Vega

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48 minutes ago, Vincent Vega said:

Pointless and not far enough . Honestly I find it insulting. Playing a game behind close doors is going to achieve what exactly  ?

https://inews.co.uk/sport/football/uefa-racism-protocol-sanctions-punishments-full-list-clubs-fa-3-point-system-815236

Thanks, I'll have a good read of it.

Still if UEFA are weak and below par, what does that often make our own FA in that respect?? 

The last time we had- yes there was one mandated by UEFA- but in domestic competition, a game fully of even partially (a stand let's say) behind closed doors was...?

UEFA did in 1981 order a West Ham UEFA Cup PR Cup Winners Cup behind closed doors at Upton Park but struggling for when our own FA have mandated this even during the height of 1970s or 1980s football! 

Overall yeah, UEFA don't do enough but they're in quite good company- FIFA seem pretty useless on it! Our FA certainly below par.

Edited by Mr Popodopolous
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