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Is racism a problem at City games?


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Not sure what started our fans singing at the Asian man in the box, but they were singing ’paedo’ at him, and ‘keep the kiddies away’, nothing racial. I can only guess he did some sort of exchange had been made as I saw the steward chatting to him at length. He also made ‘giving it all the mouth’ gestures with his hands towards our fans after this which set them off again with the ‘paedo’ chants.

I am not saying anything racist is right in any sense, but from what I heard nothing racist was aimed at any individual. Some Luton fans were taunting us for being Welsh and they were being taunted for being Asian by some fans. The Tommy Robinson chant was started when we were well beaten, out of frustration more than anything. Again I state I was appalled we would stoop so low, I thought we were better than that. How can we be cheering on players like Diedhiou, Ellisson etc and be singing that disgusting chant? Whatever must they have thought? And again I state it was soon snuffed out by our fans. 

It was  nothing like the alleged racist happenings some Yeovil fans are being accused of. Nothing was thrown, no one was spat at and no individual targeted ( with racism). Yes racism is racism and nothing should be tolerated but I don’t think the two instances can be compared.

 

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1 hour ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

I'm surmising here, but my guess is that @AshtonPark considers the two "Small Town" chants to be equivalent, one and the same?

No not at all, I just wondered if in the eyes of the law both are offensive. 

I don’t think I explained myself properly, I just wondered if someone chanted small town in wales would Julie in a professional capacity view it as offensive under some law. 

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Just now, wood_red said:

No, because someone somewhere has to be offended by it, along with any comedians telling a joke that someone doesn't like.

Not condoning it, but in this day and age someone somewhere will get offended at anything said in innocence or not.

People get triggered over anything.

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5 hours ago, wood_red said:

Be prepared to be disappointed then in my opinion. It will be sung at the same predictable matches (and by many clubs fans I expect)  the same as "sheep shaggers" is sung against Swansea/Cardiff and sung at us yesterday by them and others. Regardless of what many people think, I honestly don't think many fans see it as being racist, the same as many fans don't see "we can see you holding hands" sung at Brighton fans as being homophobic.

If this is truly the case then it will be sad that city fans will be perceived as racist at every predictable away game. I don’t want to be thought of like that, and I don’t want other city fans either to be thought of that way. 

There is enough information out there now for fans to realise what is and isn’t racist and whether an individual has their own personal views on it then I would suggest listen to advice regarding what is and isn’t lawful. 

This club and fan base have worked so hard to stamp racism out and become an inclusive club for all, and it genuinely saddens me and other football officers that work on the team when this happens . 

Happy to arrange events with the club to give advice to those who need it about what is and isn’t lawful chanting . 

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1 hour ago, wood_red said:

And charged with what exactly? You honestly think the Police will take people to court for racism because they sang "small town in Asia" in a football ground? Not a chance in hell.

 

Yes if evidence is there then they can be charged to court with racially aggravated Sec 5 public order .

 

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2 minutes ago, JulieH said:

Yes if evidence is there then they can be charged to court with racially aggravated Sec 5 public order .

 

Could you answer a question posed by another poster please?

2 hours ago, AshtonPark said:

Julie,

from a law point of view is there any difference between fans chanting small town in wales and a small town in Asia? 

I’m not saying either is fine to sing, I’m just wondering from a legal point. 

 

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38 minutes ago, AshtonPark said:

No not at all, I just wondered if in the eyes of the law both are offensive. 

I don’t think I explained myself properly, I just wondered if someone chanted small town in wales would Julie in a professional capacity view it as offensive under some law. 

Okay, apologies- I perhaps misinterpreted.

Will be interested to see the answer- my guess us that 'Small Town in Asia' might be seen as more serious under the law due to racial or ethnic dimensions.

Like I say however... No lawyer! Shame as they are on decent cash no doubt!

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1 hour ago, TRL said:

Fingers crossed allof those involved get picked upon CCTV, banned for life by the club and are dealt with by the police and courts.

 

For me if we are going to get rid of this from football, it should start with points docking,not pointless fines and a slap on the wrist, if points start being docked, and a decent amount of points,maybe this will make the fans self govern if they have the real interest of the club at heart rather than those who go for other reasons.

And yes I would be happy for this to come in immediately,if it costs us so be it.

Totally disagree, why should the club, players and innocent fans be punished fo the action of potentially, one person, who may not even be a fan of the club.  It’s the sort of thing that could be used to deny a club promotion or ensure they were relegated.  That smacks of the school teacher who can’t control the unruly pupil and gives the whole class a detention.

If anyone breaks the law at a football match, CCTV, TV camera’s, mobile phones, police spotters, stewards and other witnesses are all available to be used to find and deal with the offender(s) and not just randomly punish the innocent.  

 

 

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12 minutes ago, JulieH said:

Yes if evidence is there then they can be charged to court with racially aggravated Sec 5 public order .

 

I would hope that if a couple of hundred people got charged with a racial aggrevation charge for singing "small town in Asia" in a football ground then they would all plead not guilty and show it up for the farce that it is (in my opinion), and go all the way with it to show what a waste of Taxpayers money it is. 

 

What can people get charged with for calling people fat - is that not an offence, I hear thousands singing that at a time on numerous occasions?

What about the people who sing about Palmer shagging their wives - plenty of people don't like that song?

People wearing Massengo wigs - is that soon to be classed in the 'blacking up' bracket and racist?

Are the Welsh fair game or are people going to get a knock on the door at 6am for the "sheep shagger" song? 

 

Our crime ridden streets are full of thieves, pickpokets and drug dealers, houses and businesses are getting burgled without any investigations whatsoever, it is a free for all when it comes to breaking the law and ruining peoples lives. This country has an epidemic of knife crime and people getting killed on a daily basis. But yes lets spend a load of money taking a load of football fans to court for singing a song that at best was moronic and stupid.

 

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2 minutes ago, JulieH said:

Let me dig out the legislation tomorrow so I can quote it, it’s inportant that I get it right and give out the correct reasoning 👍

Sorry with due respect but in this thread you have stated 

 

43 minutes ago, JulieH said:

There is enough information out there now for fans to realise what is and isn’t racist and whether an individual has their own personal views on it then I would suggest listen to advice regarding what is and isn’t lawful. 

 

You are now stating that you need to dig out the legislation to provide the correct reasoning. 

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29 minutes ago, Maesknoll Red said:

Totally disagree, why should the club, players and innocent fans be punished fo the action of potentially, one person, who may not even be a fan of the club. 

 

 

What if it’s tens or hundreds of fans? And if it’s happened on multiple occasions?  I understand your point about penalising clubs for the actions of single fans but I don’t think that’s what @TRL was suggesting 

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1 hour ago, RedM said:

Not sure what started our fans singing at the Asian man in the box, but they were singing ’paedo’ at him, and ‘keep the kiddies away’, nothing racial. I can only guess he did some sort of exchange had been made as I saw the steward chatting to him at length. He also made ‘giving it all the mouth’ gestures with his hands towards our fans after this which set them off again with the ‘paedo’ chants.

I am not saying anything racist is right in any sense, but from what I heard nothing racist was aimed at any individual. Some Luton fans were taunting us for being Welsh and they were being taunted for being Asian by some fans. The Tommy Robinson chant was started when we were well beaten, out of frustration more than anything. Again I state I was appalled we would stoop so low, I thought we were better than that. How can we be cheering on players like Diedhiou, Ellisson etc and be singing that disgusting chant? Whatever must they have thought? And again I state it was soon snuffed out by our fans. 

It was  nothing like the alleged racist happenings some Yeovil fans are being accused of. Nothing was thrown, no one was spat at and no individual targeted ( with racism). Yes racism is racism and nothing should be tolerated but I don’t think the two instances can be compared.

 


I strongly suspect that chanting “paedo” at the Asian family was racially motivated, particularly in the context of the Tommy Robinson chants. 

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5 minutes ago, TinMan's left peg said:

What if it’s tens or hundreds of fans? And if it’s happened on multiple occasions?  I understand your point about penalising clubs for the actions of single fans but I don’t think that’s what @TRL was suggesting 

That’s still punishing players, investors, the Manager and the vast majority of innocent fans, not a method of ‘justice’ I agree with.  

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2 minutes ago, TinMan's left peg said:


I strongly suspect that chanting “paedo” at the Asian family was racially motivated, particularly in the context of the Tommy Robinson chants. 

It clearly is and it’s the message TR and his followers have pushed for a long time. 

The mental contortions some people seem to be going to on here to justify this nonsense is startling.

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5 minutes ago, Redinthehead said:

It clearly is and it’s the message TR and his followers have pushed for a long time. 

The mental contortions some people seem to be going to on here to justify this nonsense is startling.

Sadly I'm not surprised in the slightest. Every single time is the same, be it racism, hooliganism or whatever.

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11 minutes ago, TinMan's left peg said:


I strongly suspect that chanting “paedo” at the Asian family was racially motivated, particularly in the context of the Tommy Robinson chants. 

I strongly suspect the chanting of the paedo was done as in large the fans knew they couldn’t /shouldn’t shout anything racist at him but wanted to offend and upset in the strongest other way possible. These chants started very early in the game whereas the Robinson one in particular was not heard by me until probably around 60 or70 minutes at a guess.

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16 minutes ago, Maesknoll Red said:

That’s still punishing players, investors, the Manager and the vast majority of innocent fans, not a method of ‘justice’ I agree with.  

Interesting one for you.

Koulibaly racist abuse San Siro late December 2018.

Inter Milan sentenced to one game behind closed doors and in addition one game in which their 'Curva' was shut.

Granted the problems in Italy ARE much worse and more entrenched, and I don't known the nature or % of San Siro who were racially abusing the player.

Proportionate...or OTT?

Edited by Mr Popodopolous
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7 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Interesting one for you.

Koulibaly racist abuse San Siro late December 2018.

Inter Milan sentenced to one game behind closed doors and in addition one game in which their 'Curva' was shut.

Granted the problems in Italy ARE much worse and more entrenched, and I don't known the nature or % of San Siro who were racially abusing the player.

Proportionate...or OTT?

Without knowing the context it’s hard to say, whilst that’s still punishing the innocent, it’s a one off game and not a points deduction - which I believe should only happen if the club and not its fans, break laws or football authority rules.

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1 minute ago, Maesknoll Red said:

Without knowing the context it’s hard to say, whilst that’s still punishing the innocent, it’s a one off game and not a points deduction - which I believe should only happen if the club and not it’s fans break laws or football I guess rules.

But one of the laws of football (and the country) is for the players and staff to be able to go to work without being on the end of racial abuse.  The problem is that small fines and slaps on wrists don’t work or at worst give tacit approval to the morons.  

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6 minutes ago, Maesknoll Red said:

Without knowing the context it’s hard to say, whilst that’s still punishing the innocent, it’s a one off game and not a points deduction - which I believe should only happen if the club and not its fans, break laws or football authority rules.

Oh I agree on points deductions, not appropriate for this..

Think there's a wider debate to be had on behind closed doors or partial closure however.

Edited by Mr Popodopolous
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