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Is racism a problem at City games?

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7 hours ago, forestofdean said:

what I am saying is were all here to debate and hopefully respect each other as city fans.we will all have different opinions right or wrong if some one don't agree with me I still respect their opinion and im not going to call them names

When People start with the name calling, no matter what side there on, they lose the argument.  Abuse when nothing constructive to say and because you dare question  there perceived right to be always right. Some folk just dont like to get there views challenged. So of course that makes the challenger racist, thick, far right, ect ect ect.

Pretty sad really. 

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3 hours ago, Oh Louie louie said:

Theres people on this forum who openly hate christians.

Nobody calls them racist.

 

Please name them and provide samples of their posting as supporting evidence. 

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6 hours ago, Cowshed said:

That is not a fact. It is your opinion. It is a fact that the Attorney General felt that Tommy Robinson had not prejudiced the trial at Leeds. Hence after his successful appeal charges against Tommy Robinson were altered to reflect this . 

His actions, which he was convicted for and served a prison sentence for, came extremely close to collapsing the trial as one of the defendants appealed as a direct result of what he did outside the courtroom. That is a fact 

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2 hours ago, Oh Louie louie said:

Maybe i should report them to jon lansdown he will fix all the worlds religious problems.

This isnt saudi at the end of the day, you can attend a football match and feel free to discuss religion.

 

Saying it’s about religion is such nonsense. People are chanting ‘small town in Asia’ because of the town’s large Asian population. Lots of the other things reported (chanting England at Asian supporters, chanting Tommy Robinson’s name etc.) is racist. People pretending it’s all about religion and they’ve not prejudice towards Asian people but just Muslims - not that that’s ok in the first place - are deluding themselves. Far better to admit that a minority of our fans are racist, and that the club needs to be prepared to do something about that.

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3 hours ago, Oh Louie louie said:

Theres people on this forum who openly hate christians.

Nobody calls them racist.

 

That’s because disliking a religion doesn’t make you racist..?

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I totaly agree dave, therefore they are no better than tommy robinson.

One team in keynsham one poster here even suggested christians are quote fair game.

I dont wish to name and shame him, because this would be unchristian.

I even invited him to a church i attend twice a month in st pauls to discuss his issues with us.

This is documented here .

I

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4 minutes ago, Oh Louie louie said:

I totaly agree dave, therefore they are no better than tommy robinson.

One team in keynsham one poster here even suggested christians are quote fair game.

I dont wish to name and shame him, because this would be unchristian.

I even invited him to a church i attend twice a month in st pauls to discuss his issues with us.

This is documented here .

I

If it is documented then link the post(s). Otherwise I am taking your post to be bullsh1t.

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14 hours ago, joe jordans teeth said:

It’s difficult for me because I had family who grew up in Luton and were forced out and what has happened to that place is disgusting and if you go there and speak to the locals you would know,so no comment 

When you say 'forced out' what happened exactly?

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So, based on the support shown at Luton,  and on here for known racists and racist organisations, the answer to the question from the original post is,

Yes,

racism is a problem at city games... 

This does reflect a wider trend in society- populism and vilification of foreigners- encouraged by the right wing media, which is supported by a lot of the population.

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14 hours ago, joe jordans teeth said:

I don’t mind you asking but I’d rather not say

I didn't realise someone had asked the same question. I find it difficult to believe that they were 'forced out'. No longer felt comfortable in the area maybe, but forced out?

I know a catholic family who lived in a staunchly protestant area of Cookstown in Ireland. In the early 90's the only other catholic family's house in the area was firebombed and sectarian graffiti sprayed on it. Both families moved away from the area within days, that is being forced out.

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20 minutes ago, Oh Louie louie said:

I totaly agree dave, therefore they are no better than tommy robinson.

One team in keynsham one poster here even suggested christians are quote fair game.

I dont wish to name and shame him, because this would be unchristian.

I even invited him to a church i attend twice a month in st pauls to discuss his issues with us.

This is documented here .

I

Tommy Robinson doesn’t just ‘dislike’ Islam, he’s discriminatory against it. 
 

There is a massive difference

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9 minutes ago, JBFC II said:

Tommy Robinson doesn’t just ‘dislike’ Islam, he’s discriminatory against it. 
 

There is a massive difference

absolutely. And that discrimination applies to some of our players too. Whatever you think of Diedhiou the footballer, be surprised if many would argue about his professionalism to the club, his commitment and the fantastic way he is with the fans. Songs like this embarrass our club.

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How the hell has this thread become about religion??

Tommy Robinson is a convicted criminal. He has served time for, amongst other things, violent assault as well as mortgage fraud. He has previously been banned from football grounds for 3 years, and is about to be banned again.

So, ignoring the fact that he holds abhorrent views that some people on this thread support, what kind of person holds a man with his track record up as some kind of Messiah?
 

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2 minutes ago, redsontour said:

How the hell has this thread become about religion??

Tommy Robinson is a convicted criminal. He has served time for, amongst other things, violent assault as well as mortgage fraud. He has previously been banned from football grounds for 3 years, and is about to be banned again.

So, ignoring the fact that he holds abhorrent views that some people on this thread support, what kind of person holds a man with his track record up as some kind of Messiah?
 

Morons?

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Guys just out of intrest can somebody who was there estimate how many people were chanting this?

20 people? 3 people? half the stand? out of the say i dunno was it 2000 there?

Thanks somebody must have been close by.

Im guessing its 10 or twenty ?

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Most of the morons involved wouldn't know the difference between hindu, Seek, Muslim etc, so this religion argument is rubbish. At the very best its ignorance, which, unfortunately leads to racism and other forms of discrimination. 

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51 minutes ago, One Team In Keynsham said:

If it is documented then link the post(s). Otherwise I am taking your post to be bullsh1t.

I think he’s talking about me.

I never said Christians were fair game though, I said Christianity was fair game when it comes to jokes. And I certainly don’t hate Christians.

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3 minutes ago, BS2 Red said:

I think he’s talking about me.

I never said Christians were fair game though, I said Christianity was fair game when it comes to jokes. And I certainly don’t hate Christians.

Ta. Figured it was BS.

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Clearly, as at every club, we have a small minority who are openly racist. It might only happen occasionally, but it does happen.

It's also clear that we have a much bigger minority who, though they might not publicly partake in this behaviour, will happily look to deflect, defend, deny and excuse it when it does happen.

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1 hour ago, Kid in the Riot said:

His actions, which he was convicted for and served a prison sentence for, came extremely close to collapsing the trial as one of the defendants appealed as a direct result of what he did outside the courtroom. That is a fact 

No that is incorrect. One of the child rapists appealed using the defence that Tommy Robinson had prejudiced the Leeds trial. The appeal was unsuccessful as the judge stated there was no evidential basis to support the claim. Tommy Robinson successfully made an appeal against his contempt sentence. In the court summary it again states Tommy Robinson did not prejudice the trial. The attorney general felt new charges could be used but again stated Tommy Robinson did not prejudice the Leeds. trial. These really are facts and were part of why alternative charges were used.

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I haven’t read much of this thread but I’d like to give a different viewpoint ,shoe on the other foot if you want.

Im not condoning anything that happened yesterday and never would, and I wasn’t there yesterday and would never go there again. Luton does attract a right wing element , I read we’re the 4th away set of fans that has sung anti Islamic songs This season. 

Back in 2002/3 ish can’t quite remember and not that long after 9/11 we had Luton away. I’d never been before and didn’t know about the asian population there . I had a England shirt on and was stopped by the police and asked if I was there to incite racial hatred 😳. I asked the copper what the hell he was talking about and genuinely didn’t have a clue what his concerns were . 
walking to the ground along the high st there were posters stuck to shop windows written in three languages. In capital letters in English were the words. 
KILL THE INFIDELS 

RISE UP FOR JIHAD.

That is a act of treason , those posters were not taken down but proudly adorned on these shop windows. This imo is why Luton attracts a right wing element to it . 
Its not right and neither is a showing of intimidation from Islamic radicals either. My point is , it wasn’t just ********* being ********* . There was a far right wing element attached to it. 

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So if anyone mocks islam they should be banned from ashton gate you guys say yes.

Well surely then bs2 should be for doing so.

How many muslims do you know who would find a joke about nudity in their holy building remotely funny?

We need to stamp this out full stop.

 

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Yesterday I was ashamed of a large section of our 'fans' who decided to chant England and then Tommy Robinson it was not just a few of them it was a large section of them as it did resound around the ground,these 'supporters' should think very carefully before chanting those sort of chants as the two stewards in front of me said that they were going to report it,it's a pity that we cant ban them but if it was just one or two they would be thrown out.   

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10 minutes ago, steviestevieneville said:

I haven’t read much of this thread but I’d like to give a different viewpoint ,shoe on the other foot if you want.

Im not condoning anything that happened yesterday and never would, and I wasn’t there yesterday and would never go there again. Luton does attract a right wing element , I read we’re the 4th away set of fans that has sung anti Islamic songs This season. 

Back in 2002/3 ish can’t quite remember and not that long after 9/11 we had Luton away. I’d never been before and didn’t know about the asian population there . I had a England shirt on and was stopped by the police and asked if I was there to incite racial hatred 😳. I asked the copper what the hell he was talking about and genuinely didn’t have a clue what his concerns were . 
walking to the ground along the high st there were posters stuck to shop windows written in three languages. In capital letters in English were the words. 
KILL THE INFIDELS 

RISE UP FOR JIHAD.

That is a act of treason , those posters were not taken down but proudly adorned on these shop windows. This imo is why Luton attracts a right wing element to it . 
Its not right and neither is a showing of intimidation from Islamic radicals either. My point is , it wasn’t just ********* being ********* . There was a far right wing element attached to it. 

Thats the problem or was. Many times TM said about things like you've posted where Muslims in Luton openly expressing radical beliefs and the police doing nothing yet you walk through with an England top on and you're the one potentially causing trouble. I think if you've never lived in those types of places you've no idea how bad things are. The police and government are only fueling right wing hate towards Islam by not dealing with these issues. 

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46 minutes ago, Oh Louie louie said:

Guys just out of intrest can somebody who was there estimate how many people were chanting this?

20 people? 3 people? half the stand? out of the say i dunno was it 2000 there?

Thanks somebody must have been close by.

Im guessing its 10 or twenty ?

It started in the section I was sat/stood in, I was in the front row. Probably about 40 or 50 chanting TR aimed at a group of Luton fans in a very nearby box, one guy in particular had been engaging with City fans. Then the block towards the goal joined in, maybe more like 80 to 100 of them.

One furious older lady came down and complained to a steward, he was black and she was apologising to him. He shrugged like he'd seen it all before, sadly.

Earlier a City fan had cone down and demanded the steward go and speak to the asain guy in the box, which the main steward did. I though it a bit rich as he was getting paedo chanted at him by quite a few city fans and was certainly getting more than he was giving.

Personally I only heard the TR chant and an England one, both aimed at the Asians, although I've heard much worse, I and many many others were saddened to hear it, it left a bad taste, I really thought we as a club and a City were better than that. 

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Sounds like those involved will be easily identified if the club has any desire to do so.

I suppose then, the onus falls on the club to decide what, if any, action they choose to take.

I assume that chanting the name of a right wing activist isn't illegal and therefore of no interest to the police, so the club would need to make a decision about if they wanted people with these views associated with the club.

I fully expect City to ignore this and sweep it under the carpet, rather than taking a lead.

The fact that Jon Lansdown said 'contact the SLO' rather than 'as a senior exec, I will take ownership of this as this isn't the sort of behaviour we want or expect from supporters' says a lot.

 

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2 minutes ago, Bristol Rob said:

Sounds like those involved will be easily identified if the club has any desire to do so.

Well that would be around 200 fans at least i reckon half not even knowing who TR was. I thought for a moment that it might be mocking luton for one of their fans being TR but doubt it. The chants aimed directly at the asian family to the left was disgusting as well.

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46 minutes ago, foghornred said:

Yesterday I was ashamed of a large section of our 'fans' who decided to chant England and then Tommy Robinson it was not just a few of them it was a large section of them as it did resound around the ground,these 'supporters' should think very carefully before chanting those sort of chants as the two stewards in front of me said that they were going to report it,it's a pity that we cant ban them but if it was just one or two they would be thrown out.   

so singing England and tommy Robinson is now racist,how does that work

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39 minutes ago, Cider red said:

Most of the morons involved wouldn't know the difference between hindu, Seek, Muslim etc, so this religion argument is rubbish. At the very best its ignorance, which, unfortunately leads to racism and other forms of discrimination. 

Is that hide and SEEK?, or do you mean Sikh? That fine body of men an women from India. And it's a religion like the others you noted, not a Race.

Edited by stevep38

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7 minutes ago, forestofdean said:

so singing England and tommy Robinson is now racist,how does that work

Singing it because of the Asian community present is discriminatory and therefore racist.

Pretty obvious really. 

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Only just reading through this thread and i see old Tommy Robinson’s name is being mentioned..I must admitt i always went along with the narrative that ‘’Tommy Robinson’’ was a racist and a thug. Being mixed race myself it was/is the easiest opinion to have of the man really.. its a hard one as i think MANY on the ranks of the EDL have racist views and many have jumped on their bandwagon especially as the National Front have got less popular over recent years.. but i must admitt MANY of what Robinson says about radical Islam is 100% spot on and in Quite a few occasions when he has been given air time on national TV to express is he views he has come across very well.. the way the leftist media especially the BBC have gone after him on certain shows has been pretty out of order IMO.

The bottom line is the left in this country will always victimise the likes of Robinson but you have to applaud the guy for wanting to tackle and talk about the clear problems that radical islam threatens this country with.

Edited by bris red
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3 minutes ago, Taunton_BCFC said:

Some of that Chats to the Asian guy to left when there was 4 or 5 kids around him was absolutely disgusting and embarrassing.

 

Horrible to hear that. People complain British Asians don't integrate themselves with British culture, yet when they do something that is predominantly white, like watch football, they are hounded. Pathetic.

My mate Bello is white, but he lives in Hong Kong and he is always deeply tanned. When he was back last, he went to see Dagenham & Redbridge. On the way out the ground, he was surrounded by little chavs who told him to f-off and called him an Afghan. Utter ******* morons.

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2 minutes ago, bris red said:

Only just reading through this thread and i see old Tommy Robinson’s name is being mentioned..I must admitt i always went along with the narrative that ‘’Tommy Robinson’’ was a racist and a thug. Being mixed race myself it was/is the easiest opinion to have of the man really.. its a hard one as i think MANY on the ranks of the EDL have racist views and many have jumped on there bandwagon especially as the National Front have got less popular over recent years.. but i must admitt MANY of what Robinson says about radical Islam is 100% spot on Quite a few occasions when he has been given air time on national TV to express is he views he has come across very well.. 

The bottom line is the left in this country will always victimise the likes of Robinson but you have to applaud the guy for wanting to tackle and talk about the clear problems that radical islam threatens this country with.

There is a massive difference between Jihadists (militant extremists who claim to be Muslim) and Muslims. 
 

What Robinson doesn’t do is highlight that difference, instead he takes Muslims with the same brush as those who are militant extremists. He may come across well but he gives a very one sided, and quite frankly wrong, opinion of a religious group that itself wants to steer well clear of those who use violence wrongly in the name of Allah. 

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14 hours ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Wasn't there today but if it's true that the Yaxley-Lemon chants were aimed at a couple of Asian families sat near the away end then that is completely unacceptable and indefensible. 

I was, and yes they were. Along with the paedophile chants, interspersed with the odd comment about Rotherham. 

Ive read this depressing thread and it seems to me that your question/comment and the answer sum up what some people can't see or accept, that demonising a whole race (as paedophiles,  Un-"English" etc) is fundamentally what racism is. 

The parallel with J Saville has been made: funny how Yaxley Lennon doesn't conclude from the latter that all white Yorkshiremen are paedophiles and should be sent home? 

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On a prior thread about this subject, I believe @WolfOfWestStreet made a few posts regarding chants at the 4-0 v Leicester that saw the end of McInnes- interesting to see if they still consider this to be the case.

On a separate note yet by a similar token, I reckon there will have been some posters who post on here who either actively sang the songs, or merely joined in with it on spur of moment- a defence of their position would he interesting to see!

Edited by Mr Popodopolous

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1 hour ago, forestofdean said:

so singing England and tommy Robinson is now racist,how does that work

i imagine in the same way that if you were to chant about hitler in a positive manner and make nazi salutes it would be considered by most as being racist.  I imagine that most of the people in the box were born in Britain and consider themselves British albeit with a cultural background and have a different colour skin to yourself.

being from the forest of dean I can see why you would be intimidated by new blood coming into an area from outside and that you believe there is nothing wrong with this sort of behavior, but to be British with brown skin and being subjected to a bunch of morons directing chants at you of "England" and "Tommy Robinson" is 100% racist and has no place in a civilised society.

 

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https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/bristol-city-respond-allegations-racist-3447510

Let's hope the national media don't pick up on it.

Would almost certainly IMO have been included in referees report. The club are blameless here however, the blame lies with a minority- yes, clearly a minority of people.

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15 hours ago, AshtonGreat said:

If we're going on the dictionary definition of racism – that the prejudice is based on the belief that one's own race is superior – then I'm not sure the 'small town in Asia' chant accurately fits that bill. I don't think people chanting that genuinely think whites are superior to Asians (unlike the white people who used black people as slaves, for example). This strikes me as being more about tribalism than racism – so in a way, it is quite similar to chants against the Welsh, French, etc. Not that that excuses it – it still creates misery and can lead to bullying and violence, etc – but I think this kind of thinking, especially among men, is innate to an extent. 

On a separate (and rather depressing) note, for all the talk of 'stamping out racism', I'm not convinced it's actually racism that's being stamped out, but people openly expressing racist views

 

I never seen all the press/social media/news outlets shouting from the rooftops when a certain Anthony Joshua said exactly this about black people...

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52 minutes ago, italian dave said:

I was, and yes they were. Along with the paedophile chants, interspersed with the odd comment about Rotherham. 

Ive read this depressing thread and it seems to me that your question/comment and the answer sum up what some people can't see or accept, that demonising a whole race (as paedophiles,  Un-"English" etc) is fundamentally what racism is. 

The parallel with J Saville has been made: funny how Yaxley Lennon doesn't conclude from the latter that all white Yorkshiremen are paedophiles and should be sent home? 

Was Saville part of a huge paedophile ring who raped hundreds of children then? I thought he was alone in what he done and it was just covered up by people in the BBC and higher up? That is a surely a completely different scenario isn't it?

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2 minutes ago, Eddie Hitler said:

This is surely overdue a move to the Non-Football forum.

@Maesknoll Red @phantom

Dunno.

Bits of it are, perhaps, ie the wider political/racial/religious points, Tommy Robinson. Bits specific as to whether we as a club/fanbase have a problem I'd say while uncomfortable, need to stay up here IMO.

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