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Yeovil Game abandoned.

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6 minutes ago, Up The City! said:

I do agree with you to a certain extent. No doubt for some their singing of the song is absolutely racist.

My understanding is people sing the song as a way to voice their displeasure that some communities have a large variation of differing cultures in this country. The UK is very welcoming to different nationalities and their cultures and that's a good thing. but is it necessarily racist if communities don't want to see their local Identity drastically changed? I personally don't think it has anything to do with skin colour or religion, although racism isn't just limited to them two things.

You started off wanting to discuss the chant in isolation and now seemed to have gone on to discuss the context in which fans are singing the song? In which case the fact it followed chants relating to Tommy Robinson and other racist obscenities suggests to me it is entirely racist.

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4 minutes ago, Up The City! said:

That's my opinion, I'm not the only way to hold that opinion. Many former black players also said England should have walked off, many also said playing on was right.

For some staying on and playing was the correct thing to do, for others walking off was the correct thing to do. 

You have blown your own comment out of the water. The fact that the “correct” course of action could not be agreed by everyone proves that the issue is a matter of opinion and how you feel at the time and NOT BOTTLING IT.......

Edited by Numero Uno
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5 minutes ago, Up The City! said:

That's my opinion, I'm not the only way to hold that opinion. Many former black players also said England should have walked off, many also said playing on was right.

For some staying on and playing was the correct thing to do, for others walking off was the correct thing to do. 

That's not the same as saying they bottled it, which I've not heard any former player say.

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6 minutes ago, Up The City! said:

That's my opinion, I'm not the only way to hold that opinion. Many former black players also said England should have walked off, many also said playing on was right.

For some staying on and playing was the correct thing to do, for others walking off was the correct thing to do. 

Those former black players who said England should have walked off

Are they the same players who walked off every week when they had racial abuse thrown at them when they were playing?

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34 minutes ago, RedRobin13 said:

But everyone else is racist as well so it’s okay...

That’s not what I said.......but it’s wrong to point the finger of racism at only Bristol City fans - a point obviously lost on you......:facepalm:

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3 minutes ago, Robbored said:

That’s not what I said.......but it’s wrong to point the finger of racism at only Bristol City fans - a point obviously lost on you......:facepalm:

I’m pointing the fingers at City fans because they were racist today and this is a City forum? What would you have preferred?

Edited by RedRobin13

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10 minutes ago, Maltshoveller said:

Those former black players who said England should have walked off

Are they the same players who walked off every week when they had racial abuse thrown at them when they were playing?

No they talk bollocks,it’s all very well saying I would do this and that but they never did so they should shut up,first sign of racial abuse towards any player they should walk forget the 3 steps BS that FIFA have set

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21 minutes ago, RedRobin13 said:

You started off wanting to discuss the chant in isolation and now seemed to have gone on to discuss the context in which fans are singing the song? In which case the fact it followed chants relating to Tommy Robinson and other racist obscenities suggests to me it is entirely racist.

With due respect you seem like a young un,are you part of the extinction rebellion lot as well 

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This thread is getting a little muddled. 
 

I thought it was supposed to be discussing the alleged incident involving someone at the Yeovil Town game.

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4 minutes ago, joe jordans teeth said:

With due respect you seem like a young un,are you part of the extinction rebellion lot as well 

My gammon alarm is ringing.

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51 minutes ago, Robbored said:

That’s been chanted at Kenilworth Rd by virtually every set of away fans - encouraged no doubt by all the Asians living right next door and easily visible by fans enter the away end.

How would you know that?

 

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7 minutes ago, joe jordans teeth said:

With due respect you seem like a young un,are you part of the extinction rebellion lot as well 

All these younguns wanting to criticise racists - what hippies!

Edited by Redinthehead
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9 minutes ago, joe jordans teeth said:

With due respect you seem like a young un,are you part of the extinction rebellion lot as well 

The fact that you think being Anti-Racist or indeed concerned about the state of the environment is a ‘young un’ thing does not particularly place you in a good light. There are plenty of ‘old uns’ who don’t make a strange point of trying to defend/excuse racism...

Edited by RedRobin13
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14 minutes ago, RedRobin13 said:

I’m pointing the fingers at City fans because they were racist today and this is a City forum? What would you have preferred?

I’m a Bristol City fan and I’ve not been racist today. Nor were any of the other hundreds of City fans in the sports bar today (that I heard) 

So please don’t start branding all Bristol City fans as racists, just because a few racist happen to support Bristol City. 
 

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8 minutes ago, 054123 said:

This thread is getting a little muddled. 
 

I thought it was supposed to be discussing the alleged incident involving someone at the Yeovil Town game.

It was but a chant that had been sang for about 30 years takes priority over a black player being racially abused and feeling the need to walk off the pitch 

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2 minutes ago, Bar BS3 said:

I’m a Bristol City fan and I’ve not been racist today. Nor were any of the other hundreds of City fans in the sports bar today (that I heard) 

So please don’t start branding all Bristol City fans as racists, just because a few racist happen to support Bristol City. 
 

That reply was said in the context of Robbored’s post. I had hoped that was clear but apologies if not.

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6 minutes ago, RedRobin13 said:

The fact that you think being Anti-Racist or indeed concerned about the state of the environment is a ‘young un’ thing does not particularly place you in a good light. There are plenty of ‘old uns’ who don’t make a strange point of trying to defend/excuse racism...

Very true but those old uns are always a bit weird 

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1 minute ago, joe jordans teeth said:

It was but a chant that had been sang for about 30 years takes priority over a black player being racially abused and feeling the need to walk off the pitch 

Black players have been racially abused for a lot longer than 30 years, just because something’s been going on for a while doesn’t make it acceptable. This thread has been somewhat derailed, because an issue involving city has been considered more noteworthy on a city forum than an issue involving a different club. I agree with the poster above saying that it is somewhat off topic though

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6 minutes ago, MarcusX said:

A lot of Yeovil fans rang in to say that whilst there was a lot of abuse from fans behind the goal and bottles thrown, apparently none of it was racist.

according to callers it was started by the goalkeeper spraying fans behind the goal with his water bottle. I’m going purer on what was covered by the radio but I think there needs to be some evidence before we start throwing a team out of a competition etc. 
 

 

Another interesting conversation to be had there. Let me start by saying this, any act that is carried out because of someone's skin colour, or culture or religion etc I totally deplore in the strongest possible way.

Obviously I wasn't at the Yeovil game, so can't really comment if racial slurs were made or not.

But is the act of calling a black goalkeeper not very good racist? Is throwing a bottle at a black goalkeeper racist? Is booing a black goalkeeper racist? White players get that same treatment in every game from fans so it's very hard to distinguish if someone is actually being racist or not if there is no vocal or visual signs to it.

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17 minutes ago, joe jordans teeth said:

It was but a chant that had been sang for about 30 years takes priority over a black player being racially abused and feeling the need to walk off the pitch 

Think you’re already discussing it here.

Back to Yeovil, very brave of the opposition players to walk off at the behest of the goalie. Nobody seems to know what definitely happened there today.

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9 minutes ago, 054123 said:

Think you’re already discussing it here.

Back to Yeovil, very brave of the opposition players to walk off at the behest of the goalie. Nobody seems to know what definitely happened there today.

Exactly my point let’s keep this about proper racism 

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45 minutes ago, Northern Red said:

That's not the same as saying they bottled it, which I've not heard any former player say.

Maybe they didn't use that term, but their sentiments were similar. 

42 minutes ago, Maltshoveller said:

Those former black players who said England should have walked off

Are they the same players who walked off every week when they had racial abuse thrown at them when they were playing?

They bottled it too but I think it is important to understand that we live in different times. If just one England player had walked off the rest would have followed and the whole country and footballing world would have supported them.

30 or so years ago I don't think the same would have happened. If a black plsyer walked off he would have been walking off by himself and received criticism from fans as racism was very widespread back then in this country and that's very sad that black players back then didn't receive the support that players of today do, even tho there is still more that can be done.

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Well, I say reports seem unclear, I’d avoid twitter if your looking for actual information of use. I’m amazed news outlets are allowed to report things in the manner they do.

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2 hours ago, Robbored said:

That’s been chanted at Kenilworth Rd by virtually every set of away fans - encouraged no doubt by all the Asians living right next door and easily visible by fans enter the away end.

Does that make it right?

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2 hours ago, Up The City! said:

I agree, Yeovil should be kicked out of the competition and Haringey receive a bye into the 1st round , and those identified as responsible should face life time bans and the force of the law.

Why? What have Yeovil done wrong in this instance? I don’t condone any form of abuse like this, but first things first facts need to be established. What’s happened today appears to be very different to Bulgaria for example, where hundreds of fans very openly made nazi/similar salutes, monkey chants etc and then the coach tried to defend it.

here Yeovil have not defended what happened, and there appears to be no witnesses so far that can back up what’s happened? I’m not going to say the GK made it up, but if only he heard it - especially if it was chanting as someone has suggested he said - then there needs to be an investigation but I don’t think you’ll get an answer. Yeovil should be warned and the game replayed, if anything reoccurs then Yeovil could be seen to have not dealt with it, but they can’t be held to account for not preventing something that they have never been associated with before (as far as I know)

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3 minutes ago, MarcusX said:

Why? What have Yeovil done wrong in this instance? I don’t condone any form of abuse like this, but first things first facts need to be established. What’s happened today appears to be very different to Bulgaria for example, where hundreds of fans very openly made nazi/similar salutes, monkey chants etc and then the coach tried to defend it.

here Yeovil have not defended what happened, and there appears to be no witnesses so far that can back up what’s happened? I’m not going to say the GK made it up, but if only he heard it - especially if it was chanting as someone has suggested he said - then there needs to be an investigation but I don’t think you’ll get an answer. Yeovil should be warned and the game replayed, if anything reoccurs then Yeovil could be seen to have not dealt with it, but they can’t be held to account for not preventing something that they have never been associated with before (as far as I know)

Let me say I have no idea what actually went on , but how come he didn't walk off the moment he heard that, rather than waiting to see if he could save the pen?

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1 hour ago, Up The City! said:

Another interesting conversation to be had there. Let me start by saying this, any act that is carried out because of someone's skin colour, or culture or religion etc I totally deplore in the strongest possible way.

Obviously I wasn't at the Yeovil game, so can't really comment if racial slurs were made or not.

But is the act of calling a black goalkeeper not very good racist? Is throwing a bottle at a black goalkeeper racist? Is booing a black goalkeeper racist? White players get that same treatment in every game from fans so it's very hard to distinguish if someone is actually being racist or not if there is no vocal or visual signs to it.

I think we agree here? Though in your last post you said Yeovil should be kicked out?

Abusing someone who is black in ways and for reasons that have nothing to do with their skin colour is not racist and that’s why I think there needs to be an investigation into what was said and done before Yeovil are nailed to the cross.

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2 hours ago, MarcusX said:

What do you think they were insinuating with that chant?

At a guess I’d say that chant was insinuating the amount of Asians living so close to Kenilworth Rd.

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3 minutes ago, slartibartfast said:

Let me say I have no idea what actually went on , but how come he didn't walk off the moment he heard that, rather than waiting to see if he could save the pen?

I’ll be honest I only know what I heard on the radio from the callers so I don’t even know the timings around the penalty etc.

if that’s true then no idea? Seems strange. The only thing I would say at the level Yeovil are now at, some non league grounds are very “intimate”. Keepers can be closer to the fans than they are the edge of the box in some places, Security isn’t what it is at bigger grounds and I’ve seen things watching non league you’d never see at higher levels (players in the back of the net after a scrambled goal being attacked by fans, GKs being very aggressively abused etc).

100% pure conjecture here but I looked at the photos and this looks like a typical non league ground with fans very close to the pitch. It could be that the GK felt like his safety was at risk? Unlike in Bulgaria for example where, although much worse, none of the players were realistically at risk of physical harm.

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I still don’t know what happened.

All I know is it’s a

axing the headline and story I can write as long as somewhere in amongst it all, I use ‘alleged’.

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1 hour ago, MarcusX said:

I think we agree here? Though in your last post you said Yeovil should be kicked out?

Abusing someone who is black in ways and for reasons that have nothing to do with their skin colour is not racist and that’s why I think there needs to be an investigation into what was said and done before Yeovil are nailed to the cross.

I totally agree with you.

Apologies I'm not sure if I said that if it is found to be racist. 

In my life I've had it where I've called people an insult, something like a knob or whatever yet when it comes to someone from a different ethnic background to myself I will not insult them incase I am accused of being a racist for calling them a knob etc when the reality is I'm calling them a knob simply because I think they are a knob, skin colour or religion has nothing to do with it.

It seems that any act towards a person of a different ethnic background is immediately considered racist, even tho there is no evidence of it being racially motivated. Sorry for going around the bushes with this but yes I agree, we shouldn't be so quick to jump to conclusions that it was racially motivated unless there is evidence. 

The sad reality is if there was in actual fact no Racism used by Yeovil fans, and this was a white GK, we wouldn't even be talking about a GK being abused as abusing the GK is part and parcel of attending games, no matter their ethnicity.

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15 minutes ago, Up The City! said:

I totally agree with you.

Apologies I'm not sure if I said that if it is found to be racist. 

In my life I've had it where I've called people an insult, something like a knob or whatever yet when it comes to someone from a different ethnic background to myself I will not insult them incase I am accused of being a racist for calling them a knob etc when the reality is I'm calling them a knob simply because I think they are a knob, skin colour or religion has nothing to do with it.

It seems that any act towards a person of a different ethnic background is immediately considered racist, even tho there is no evidence of it being racially motivated. Sorry for going around the bushes with this but yes I agree, we shouldn't be so quick to jump to conclusions that it was racially motivated unless there is evidence. 

The sad reality is if there was in actual fact no Racism used by Yeovil fans, and this was a white GK, we wouldn't even be talking about a GK being abused as abusing the GK is part and parcel of attending games, no matter their ethnicity.

True, and really abuse of any kind should be discouraged and stamped out but many will say it’s part and parcel of football. It can be particularly bad at that level like I alluded to earlier with the “intimate” grounds and close proximity of fans to the pitch.

having read a bit more it seems like the keeper was abused and then another player whilst collecting the ball from the net after the penalty, and it was the manager who pulled the team off the pitch to protect them.

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2 hours ago, MarcusX said:

Why? What have Yeovil done wrong in this instance? I don’t condone any form of abuse like this, but first things first facts need to be established. What’s happened today appears to be very different to Bulgaria for example, where hundreds of fans very openly made nazi/similar salutes, monkey chants etc and then the coach tried to defend it.

here Yeovil have not defended what happened, and there appears to be no witnesses so far that can back up what’s happened? I’m not going to say the GK made it up, but if only he heard it - especially if it was chanting as someone has suggested he said - then there needs to be an investigation but I don’t think you’ll get an answer. Yeovil should be warned and the game replayed, if anything reoccurs then Yeovil could be seen to have not dealt with it, but they can’t be held to account for not preventing something that they have never been associated with before (as far as I know)

See both sides,can you punish a club for a few morons being tits or do the FA make a stance to stop future morons doing it at other clubs and chuck them out the cup

Edited by joe jordans teeth

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25 minutes ago, joe jordans teeth said:

See both sides,can you punish a club for a few morons being tits or do the FA make a stance to stop future morons doing it at other clubs and chuck them out the cup

The latter opens a can of worms IMO, because what is therefore to stop fans of let's say Club X going to a game involving Club Y- he they bitter local rivals, or perhaps more likely a key relegation/promotion or even title rival, and causing an abandonment of disruption with racist chanting or similar.

Club Y gets docked points, due to fans of Club X- who benefit significantly, perhaps even decisively in a relegation/promotion/title battle- or a Cup tie if away fans buy in home end or vice versa especially if major underdogs, or up against a bitter rival.

So it's a hard one and though well intentioned and would send a major message..it isn't without pitfalls either.

Edited by Mr Popodopolous

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24 minutes ago, joe jordans teeth said:

See both sides,can you punish a club for a few morons being tits or do the FA make a stance to stop future morons doing it at other clubs and chuck them out the cup

It won't stop it happening, be they past.present or future morons.

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3 hours ago, MarcusX said:

What’s happened today appears to be very different to Bulgaria for example, where hundreds of fans very openly made nazi/similar salutes, monkey chants etc and then the coach tried to defend it.

 

I was in Sofia on Monday night and to say hundreds of fans were doing it is wide of the mark, in my humble view. It was a group of about 50 who seemed to be causing all the problems. 
 

I couldn’t hear any abuse from where I was in the stadium (partly due to bad acoustics in the ground, and partly because the 50 or so fans in question were at the other end of the stadium from us). The players and referee could obviously hear it, but from reading the England fans’ message boards it seems I wasn’t alone among the travelling fans in not being able to hear any of it. 

Not defending or condoning what happened in any way, and those responsible should be heavily punished, but some of the press stories in the aftermath would have you believe the whole stadium were doing it and that Bulgaria is an openly racist place. From my two visits there, that’s wide of the mark. 

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6 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

The latter opens a can of worms IMO, because what is therefore to stop fans of let's say Club X going to a game involving Club Y- he they bitter local rivals, or perhaps more likely a key relegation/promotion or even title rival, and causing an abandonment of disruption with racist chanting or similar.

Club Y gets docked points, due to fans of Club X- who benefit significantly, perhaps even decisively in a relegation/promotion/title battle- or a Cup tie if away fans buy in home end or vice versa especially if major underdogs, or up against a bitter rival.

So it's a hard one and though well intentioned and would send a major message..it isn't without pitfalls either.

It`s the old argument about fans of Club X trying to get the game stopped be it through crowd trouble, pitch invasions or whatever and benefitting as a result. If points were docked then it would happen all the time and that would not solve the problem but only make it worse.

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10 hours ago, slartibartfast said:

Let me say I have no idea what actually went on , but how come he didn't walk off the moment he heard that, rather than waiting to see if he could save the pen?

1. The keeper did not decide to walk off. The Haringey Manager took the decision to take the team off as he felt the level of abuse was unacceptable and he did not want his players put through it. The decision was taken after the penalty due to the fact that, after the penalty, Haringey’s number six was racially abused and it was his reaction that was the reason the manager decided he wanted his players off, not just the abuse of the keeper

2. The Haringey Manager was also very clear that he does not want Yeovil kicked out the competition. He said the Yeovil manager and players tried to talk to the fans and defuse things and were insistent that they too walked off with the Haringey players in an act of solidarity.

3. The fact Yeovil did the above suggests they too perceived racial abuse was taking place. Whatever went on, it was not just something the goalkeeper heard or chose to act on. Players on both sides were obviously upset by it.

Edited by LondonBristolian
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8 hours ago, Up The City! said:

I totally agree with you.

Apologies I'm not sure if I said that if it is found to be racist. 

In my life I've had it where I've called people an insult, something like a knob or whatever yet when it comes to someone from a different ethnic background to myself I will not insult them incase I am accused of being a racist for calling them a knob etc when the reality is I'm calling them a knob simply because I think they are a knob, skin colour or religion has nothing to do with it.

It seems that any act towards a person of a different ethnic background is immediately considered racist, even tho there is no evidence of it being racially motivated. Sorry for going around the bushes with this but yes I agree, we shouldn't be so quick to jump to conclusions that it was racially motivated unless there is evidence. 

The sad reality is if there was in actual fact no Racism used by Yeovil fans, and this was a white GK, we wouldn't even be talking about a GK being abused as abusing the GK is part and parcel of attending games, no matter their ethnicity.

Similar to the Bernardo silva situation I guess,when he was charged by stating that mendy in his youth looked like a cartoon character on a crisp packet. There's been lookalikes banter going round for years. 

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9 hours ago, Up The City! said:

I totally agree with you.

Apologies I'm not sure if I said that if it is found to be racist. 

In my life I've had it where I've called people an insult, something like a knob or whatever yet when it comes to someone from a different ethnic background to myself I will not insult them incase I am accused of being a racist for calling them a knob etc when the reality is I'm calling them a knob simply because I think they are a knob, skin colour or religion has nothing to do with it.

It seems that any act towards a person of a different ethnic background is immediately considered racist, even tho there is no evidence of it being racially motivated. Sorry for going around the bushes with this but yes I agree, we shouldn't be so quick to jump to conclusions that it was racially motivated unless there is evidence. 

The sad reality is if there was in actual fact no Racism used by Yeovil fans, and this was a white GK, we wouldn't even be talking about a GK being abused as abusing the GK is part and parcel of attending games, no matter their ethnicity.

See above. The abuse towards the keeper was not the only, or even the main, reason the manager took the players off.

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13 hours ago, Up The City! said:

I'm on the fence. I don't necessarily think it is a racist chant and would like a conversation to establish if it is of not.

I wasn't there today, so I don't know in what context these chants were sung so I'm going to just concentrate on the chant rather than it being chanted today.

The question is, is singing a chant that a town is full of Asians racist or not? Or is it something else like Xenophobic etc? 

Assuming they’re ‘Asians’ not British based on the colour of their skin (which is what you are also doing) and chanting that at them in a derogatory way. Yeah pretty clear cut actually 

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11 hours ago, Robbored said:

At a guess I’d say that chant was insinuating the amount of Asians living so close to Kenilworth Rd.

“Asians”? Not British then? If they were predominantly black would you call them “Africans”?

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6 hours ago, Murraysrightplum said:

“Asians”? Not British then? If they were predominantly black would you call them “Africans”?

What would an Asian or black person describe themselves as?

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17 hours ago, Robbored said:

:dunno:

You decide.

Well they’re clearly mocking it, which is why it’s such a disgusting chant. Was just trying to give you some logic to go with that but it appears it was wasted.

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