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Pessimistic maybe but...midfield


Mr Popodopolous

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I've been wondering about this for a little while.

Given the fact that Smith still injured, was loaning out BOTH of Morrell and Walsh plus selling Pack the best move? 

The Nagy injury the big problem  and added factor here but I'm (wrongly?) worried that Brownhill and Massengo will be run into the ground, 2 centrally at this level is very demanding. 

Now I know that Palmer is central but he's more of a 10 and CM, unconvinced. I'd have been inclined to keep one of Morrell or Walsh- think we need a CM 3 anyway, would help to ease the load on our central pair, either through rotation or 3 in CM vs sides who often play that helps with security and control.

On the flipside, our injuries have been beyond ridiculous! You get outnumbered, outmanoeuvred- played around in central areas these days at this level, you can have trouble.

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Loaning out Morrell wasn’t a wise move I agree. Massengo was awful today but that’s mainly because of how much football he’s played recently, especially when you consider he’s only 18. Brownhill was slightly better but still way under the level you’d expect of him. 
 

Let’s just hope Nagy comes back fully fit ASAP

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I think they are trained to pass backwards and sideways. So frustrating, but when you've got no movement up front, what else can you do?

Looks like the players have just taken 2 weeks off for the break and haven't been in for training or they have beem stuffing their faces with junk food.

BTW, what is the point of putting on 2 wingers and taking off your striker?

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1 minute ago, wendyredredrobin said:

I think they are trained to pass baclwards and sideways. So frustrating, but when you've got no movement up front, what else can you do?

Looks like the players have just taken 2 weeks off for the break and haven't been in for training or they have beem stuffing their faces with junk food.

BTW, what is the point of putting on 2 wingers and taking off your striker?

We took off our striker for another striker?

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11 minutes ago, wendyredredrobin said:

So banging in crosses to someone who is 5'10" is going to work.

Movement as you mentioned is important.

'Banging in crosses'- depends what you mean by banging in I guess. Low drilled crosses say, to Weimann and Rodri- we know Weimann makes good runs, Rodri dunno so much about.

That could've been interesting, but then losing numbers centrally up v a diamond also would set us back especially when chasing the game. Surely more effective than banging them in though!

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10 hours ago, JBFC II said:

Loaning out Morrell wasn’t a wise move I agree. Massengo was awful today but that’s mainly because of how much football he’s played recently, especially when you consider he’s only 18. Brownhill was slightly better but still way under the level you’d expect of him. 
 

Let’s just hope Nagy comes back fully fit ASAP

10-15 days I think

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2 hours ago, JBFC II said:

Considering he scored off of one I’d say it did.

As @Mr Popodopolous said, height doesn’t matter when it comes to crossing, movement is what’s important. And I thought he looked sharp yesterday which is only a good thing

The other thing about crosses. Lower drilled and also do we aim for byline out wide or width of penalty area?

I'd suggest the latter for games like yesterday, for players like Weimann and in time who knows, maybe Rodri.

High crosses from wide vs a packed central area, packed defensive zone, they only play into the hands of the defending side, quite often!

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On 19/10/2019 at 23:21, Mr Popodopolous said:

I've been wondering about this for a little while.

Given the fact that Smith still injured, was loaning out BOTH of Morrell and Walsh plus selling Pack the best move? 

The Nagy injury the big problem  and added factor here but I'm (wrongly?) worried that Brownhill and Massengo will be run into the ground, 2 centrally at this level is very demanding. 

Now I know that Palmer is central but he's more of a 10 and CM, unconvinced. I'd have been inclined to keep one of Morrell or Walsh- think we need a CM 3 anyway, would help to ease the load on our central pair, either through rotation or 3 in CM vs sides who often play that helps with security and control.

On the flipside, our injuries have been beyond ridiculous! You get outnumbered, outmanoeuvred- played around in central areas these days at this level, you can have trouble.

Yes i agree we need a ball winner whilst Naggy is injured joe morrell just may have been that player.

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13 minutes ago, RobintheRed Red said:

Yes i agree we need a ball winner whilst Naggy is injured joe morrell just may have been that player.

Was feeling a little bit pessimistic about Morrell as Lincoln seemed to have stagnated a bit recently. 

I had a look at his stats on whoscored.com and was pleasantly surprised however. He has statistically the highest average rating for Lincoln with 7.05, the only player on the team to have over 7.

Furthermore he is averaging 2.3 tackles a game, and 2.1 interceptions in midfield with an 80.1% average pass completion percentage. 

For comparison purposes Josh Brownhill offers a 7.08 average rating, with 2.2 average tackles a game, 1.6  avg. interceptions and 79% pass completion, he also has a goal and an assist which will explain the marginally higher rating than Morrell who has none. 

Massengo has an 6.39 average rating, avg. 1 tackle a game, 0.8 interceptions and 80.9% pass completion, with no goals or assists. 

In hindsight, it looks like Morrell would actually improve our team currently, yes there is a gap between League 1 and Championship but he is demonstrating some very impressive stats. If we would have had him sitting in front of the defence while Nagy was out it could have given Brownhill a bit more room to express himself in the middle. 

To open another can of worms, Liam Walsh is also the highest rated player for coventry with an average rating of 7.25, averaging per game 2.1 tackles, 2.3 interceptions, 83.1% avg. pass completion, and a goal to top it off.

I do also wonder if this also means the beginning of the end for Korey Smith, Morrell and Walsh have shown themselves capable of breaking up the play albeit in a lower division, and Morrell has also started to be called up for the Wales senior squad. Morrell seems to play a bit deeper than Walsh and LJ may see a ready made replacement ready to slot in and compete with Nagy for that position? Recall for one in January perhaps?

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19 minutes ago, Chris_Brown said:

I expect Rowe was thought to have been cover for midfield as well, but obviously is occupied elsewhere. 

Not having a recognised reserve left back could prove to be the biggest clanger of this season?

Although sending Morrell on loan, whilst giving him lots of game time, is also, IMO, a wrong decision. The injury to Nagy, means we are not using Brownhill to full effect as a defensive midfielder.

Too many pegs in the wrong shaped holes at moment.

Easy to be right in hindsight.

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On 20/10/2019 at 08:28, Hampshire reds said:

our young superstar in the making needs a rest. not one of his better games yesterday. without Naggy its time for COD to step up. 

I’ve not seen anything in 3 full seasons to believe COD is anywhere near an answer for us. 

Time to trust Eliasson IMO and even if that means it unbalances the team slightly- he could almost just drift between left and right wings with 1 main striker (arguably Fam for this scenario due to lack of options). 

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11 hours ago, marcofisher said:

In hindsight, it looks like Morrell would actually improve our team currently, yes there is a gap between League 1 and Championship but he is demonstrating some very impressive stats. If we would have had him sitting in front of the defence while Nagy was out it could have given Brownhill a bit more room to express himself in the middle. 

These are great stats thank you.

The big problem as you say if the gulf between Championship and League one - it's bigger than a gap - just look at Eisa and Taylor. Probably the latter is a better benchmark as we gave him loads of chances. Even the most avid Matty Taylor fan will admit his goals per mins were not enough.

Joe playing for Wales gives some hope for experience but is he mobile, fast or strong enough even compared to a slightly off form Massengo? I'm not convinced he is the solution - Nagy clearly is.

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11 hours ago, marcofisher said:

Was feeling a little bit pessimistic about Morrell as Lincoln seemed to have stagnated a bit recently. 

I had a look at his stats on whoscored.com and was pleasantly surprised however. He has statistically the highest average rating for Lincoln with 7.05, the only player on the team to have over 7.

Furthermore he is averaging 2.3 tackles a game, and 2.1 interceptions in midfield with an 80.1% average pass completion percentage. 

For comparison purposes Josh Brownhill offers a 7.08 average rating, with 2.2 average tackles a game, 1.6  avg. interceptions and 79% pass completion, he also has a goal and an assist which will explain the marginally higher rating than Morrell who has none. 

Massengo has an 6.39 average rating, avg. 1 tackle a game, 0.8 interceptions and 80.9% pass completion, with no goals or assists. 

In hindsight, it looks like Morrell would actually improve our team currently, yes there is a gap between League 1 and Championship but he is demonstrating some very impressive stats. If we would have had him sitting in front of the defence while Nagy was out it could have given Brownhill a bit more room to express himself in the middle. 

To open another can of worms, Liam Walsh is also the highest rated player for coventry with an average rating of 7.25, averaging per game 2.1 tackles, 2.3 interceptions, 83.1% avg. pass completion, and a goal to top it off.

I do also wonder if this also means the beginning of the end for Korey Smith, Morrell and Walsh have shown themselves capable of breaking up the play albeit in a lower division, and Morrell has also started to be called up for the Wales senior squad. Morrell seems to play a bit deeper than Walsh and LJ may see a ready made replacement ready to slot in and compete with Nagy for that position? Recall for one in January perhaps?

With respect, whilst those numbers are indeed interesting, you're not comparing apples with apples.  There's a huge gap between league one and the Championship, so you would expect a Championship ready players to be showing those figures at the level below.  Arguably indeed, you could expect higher than the ratings and stats they're showing as in theory they are a class above the opposition they're facing.  Likewise, Brownhill and Massengo have a tougher task at the moment as the quality of opposition is so much better.

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2 hours ago, Dullmoan Tone said:

These are great stats thank you.

The big problem as you say if the gulf between Championship and League one - it's bigger than a gap - just look at Eisa and Taylor. Probably the latter is a better benchmark as we gave him loads of chances. Even the most avid Matty Taylor fan will admit his goals per mins were not enough.

Joe playing for Wales gives some hope for experience but is he mobile, fast or strong enough even compared to a slightly off form Massengo? I'm not convinced he is the solution - Nagy clearly is.

 

2 hours ago, Steve Watts said:

With respect, whilst those numbers are indeed interesting, you're not comparing apples with apples.  There's a huge gap between league one and the Championship, so you would expect a Championship ready players to be showing those figures at the level below.  Arguably indeed, you could expect higher than the ratings and stats they're showing as in theory they are a class above the opposition they're facing.  Likewise, Brownhill and Massengo have a tougher task at the moment as the quality of opposition is so much better.

Absolutely it has to be taken with a pinch of salt. But at the same time currently these players are statistically the best players in their team even if it is the league below. If they are doing that why would they not deserve to be competing for first team places? Eisa has a very high rating at 7.26 which suggests we might have been wrong to let him go. Taylor’s however is only 6.56 despite scoring 3 goals suggesting that he doesn’t offer all that much and he has very much found his level.

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There's also another point about those 2.

Took a quick look at a few of their games, setups etc- they appear to play in a midfield 3 or a 4-1-4-1...a luxury they were never afforded here a lot of the time!

Maybe, just maybe- modern players are more suited, especially in footballing sides, to a CM 3. I've gone on about it often but still think this brings the best out of a midfield such as that- and arguably, a midfield such as ours. 

Note- When I say a midfield 3, I don't necessarily include Palmer, or before him, Paterson in that sense- different types of player!

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6 hours ago, cidered abroad said:

Not having a recognised reserve left back could prove to be the biggest clanger of this season?

Although sending Morrell on loan, whilst giving him lots of game time, is also, IMO, a wrong decision. The injury to Nagy, means we are not using Brownhill to full effect as a defensive midfielder.

Too many pegs in the wrong shaped holes at moment.

Easy to be right in hindsight.

We are much weaker at left back without Kelly. Of course we take the money for him, but we should really have 2 in each position. Rowe should always have been an emergency 3rd choice left back, just like we have Wright or Korey (when back fit) who can cover right back if Hunt and Pereira are out. 

As for Morrell loan, I think it was the right decision as I doubt he would have even kicked a ball for us by now if he'd stayed here. But then had we brought in a left back, or if O'Dowda was to be trusted at left back, then we would then have Rowe as an option in his position of centre midfield.

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On 20/10/2019 at 08:11, JBFC II said:

Considering he scored off of one I’d say it did.

As @Mr Popodopolous said, height doesn’t matter when it comes to crossing, movement is what’s important. And I thought he looked sharp yesterday which is only a good thing

Thank you

On 19/10/2019 at 23:47, Mr Popodopolous said:

Movement as you mentioned is important.

'Banging in crosses'- depends what you mean by banging in I guess. Low drilled crosses say, to Weimann and Rodri- we know Weimann makes good runs, Rodri dunno so much about.

That could've been interesting, but then losing numbers centrally up v a diamond also would set us back especially when chasing the game. Surely more effective than banging them in though!

Thank you

On 20/10/2019 at 09:25, steviestevieneville said:

It’s not about height really it’s about good movement and fam just doesn’t have it 

Thank you

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18 hours ago, JonDolman said:

We are much weaker at left back without Kelly. Of course we take the money for him, but we should really have 2 in each position. Rowe should always have been an emergency 3rd choice left back, just like we have Wright or Korey (when back fit) who can cover right back if Hunt and Pereira are out. 

As for Morrell loan, I think it was the right decision as I doubt he would have even kicked a ball for us by now if he'd stayed here. But then had we brought in a left back, or if O'Dowda was to be trusted at left back, then we would then have Rowe as an option in his position of centre midfield.

I agree 100% on Kelly. The club's argument of course is that without that early sale we wouldn't have been in a position to bring in Kalas or Dasilva, which would of course have created similar/identical problems. 

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