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ziderheadarmy

Racism at the darts?

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Just watching Gerwyn Price v Michael Van Gerwen, sections of the crowd are chanting sheep, sheep, sheep sh&£@r at Price who is obviously Welsh.

Is this racist? Banter? Harmless fun? 

Will these darts fans be identified by cctv and banned from future events?  

Double standards? 

Edited by ziderheadarmy
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8 minutes ago, ziderheadarmy said:

Just watching Gerwyn Price v Michael Van Gerwyn, sections of the crowd are chanting sheep, sheep, sheep sh&£@r at Price who is obviously Welsh.

Is this racist? Banter? Harmless fun? 

Will these darts fans be identified by cctv and banned from future events?  

Double standards? 

There's a lot of Gerwyns in there

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14 minutes ago, ziderheadarmy said:

Just watching Gerwyn Price v Michael Van Gerwen, sections of the crowd are chanting sheep, sheep, sheep sh&£@r at Price who is obviously Welsh.

Is this racist? Banter? Harmless fun? 

Will these darts fans be identified by cctv and banned from future events?  

Double standards? 

Idiot 

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4 minutes ago, city1983 said:

Idiot 

@city1983 Intelligent post. Well done. 

1 minute ago, Torpey'sBigToe said:

Not really. It’s a valid question. Where would you draw the line?

Thank you, this is my question in essence. You need a line I expect but what’s funny to one person could well upset another.

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42 minutes ago, ziderheadarmy said:

 

 

43 minutes ago, ziderheadarmy said:

Just watching Gerwyn Price v Michael Van Gerwen, sections of the crowd are chanting sheep, sheep, sheep sh&£@r at Price who is obviously Welsh.

Is this racist? Banter? Harmless fun? 

Will these darts fans be identified by cctv and banned from future events?  

Double standards? 

If you seriously can't differentiate between national rivalry/banter and racism then God help you.

11 minutes ago, redsquirrel said:

is it any different to paddy,jock and taff though? or are they swear words now too?

I've heard Paddy get used in a discriminating way but its not quite comparable to racism.

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2 minutes ago, Torpey'sBigToe said:

Exactly. If a welsh Cardiff (or other team) player complain to the officials at being called a sheep fondler, would the game be stopped/abandoned? For consistency, it should be.

Yes this was my point. 

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I made this point on another thread. Is sheep shagger a racist comment or just observational humor aimed at a particular culture. 
 

To be frank most of us know what is banter and where the line is. Some don’t!

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7 minutes ago, Neutral said:

 

If you seriously can't differentiate between national rivalry/banter and racism then God help you.

If you think that every individual that you might aim a particular term at would all deem it to be banter, as opposed to derogatory, then god help you. 

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Going to give people the benefit of the doubt here and assume everyone is well meaning.  The difference is hundreds of years of genocide and oppression based on white supremacy.  Context is important. Taunting Welsh people with stereotypes might not be the pinnacle of wit but no, it’s not the same as racist chanting.   

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If you think chanting things like that at Welsh people is really offensive the easiest thing to do is not to chant it.

This odd double standards argument that pops up on here makes no sense unless you take enjoyment in mocking towns and cities for having large Asian populations.

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10 minutes ago, TinMan's left peg said:

Going to give people the benefit of the doubt here and assume everyone is well meaning.  The difference is hundreds of years of genocide and oppression based on white supremacy.  Context is important. Taunting Welsh people with stereotypes might not be the pinnacle of wit but no, it’s not the same as racist chanting.   

I see what you’re trying to say, but you make it sound like the English never spent years fighting and persecuting the welsh, Scottish or Irish at any point... ‘white supremacy’ is a little blinkered.

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13 minutes ago, !james said:

Context.

These are the sort of people who's Twitter bio says: 

 

IMG_20191020_210101.jpg

Nice belly, Alan.

Divorced? Surely not

Edited by AppyDAZE
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This country really does seem to appear more and more to consist of the haves and have nots these days...

 

and we're talking brains by the way , in case you wondered

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28 minutes ago, Torpey'sBigToe said:

If you think that every individual that you might aim a particular term at would all deem it to be banter, as opposed to derogatory, then god help you. 

The thing is mate, I don't aim those terms. I'm half Irish with Welsh family. I can just clearly see the difference.

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1 hour ago, Torpey'sBigToe said:

The problem, I think, is that ‘racism’ seems to be defined by abuse of people of a different ethnicity, not nationality. Is that differentiation not in itself racist?

Let me spell this out in language you may understand, given recent events:

1) How often have Asian/black/people of colour folk been the victims of hate or discriminated against for their ethnicity?

2) How often have Welsh people been victims of hate or been discriminated against for their ethnicity?

You're welcome, you can stop pretending to be ignorant now. It’s not funny.

Edited by RonWalker
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1 hour ago, ziderheadarmy said:

Just watching Gerwyn Price v Michael Van Gerwen, sections of the crowd are chanting sheep, sheep, sheep sh&£@r at Price who is obviously Welsh.

Is this racist? Banter? Harmless fun? 

Will these darts fans be identified by cctv and banned from future events?  

Double standards? 

I've got an answer for you...

It depends on precedent.

So, it depends on what's gone on before.

Why is the 'n' word so bad? Because it was used during slavery and racist attacks.

Why is the 'p' word so bad? Because it was used by racist aggressors.

Alternatively...

Why is 'pom' not an especially bad word? Well because the English have never been subordinated, attacked or dehumanised by Australians (cricket fans may disagree).

So, when you consider using the word 'taff' or the sheep accusations, just consider first whether there is a current context, or a precedent, that would make the use of the word particularly cruel.

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All I know is, I learned this at an early age....

...you gotta stay out of the Black and into the Red cos you get nothin' in this game for two in a bed!  

 

 

 

(cant help myself, I'm still well into the Red!)

 

Edited by WhistleHappy

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7 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

:D

Parody account surely!

 

37 minutes ago, !james said:

Context.

These are the sort of people who's Twitter bio says: 

 

IMG_20191020_210101.jpg

Voted OUT and he's from Brighton...  and before you accuse me of insinuating anything dodgy, I've said nothing btw

But you can only imagine this guy's views on THOSE people

Edited by AppyDAZE

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41 minutes ago, REDOXO said:

I made this point on another thread. Is sheep shagger a racist comment or just observational humor aimed at a particular culture. 
 

To be frank most of us know what is banter and where the line is. Some don’t!

What you been observing?!

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12 minutes ago, RonWalker said:

Let me spell this out in language you may understand, given recent events:

1) How often have Asian/black/people of colour folk been the victims of hate or discriminated against for their ethnicity?

2) How often have Welsh people been victims of hate or been discriminated against for their ethnicity?

You're welcome, you can stop pretending to be ignorant now. It’s not funny.

That doesn’t mean it’s not racist... It’s contextual, which is the point. You’re welcome.

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37 minutes ago, REDOXO said:

I made this point on another thread. Is sheep shagger a racist comment or just observational humor aimed at a particular culture. 
 

To be frank most of us know what is banter and where the line is. Some don’t!

Sheep shagger is not a racist remark but an allusion to what is thought to be someone's sexual preference. Luton fans chanted it at us yesterday and, whatever they may think, Bristol is not in Wales. For all I know perhaps England Rugby fans could have chatted it at the Australian fans yesterday in Japan and could chant it towards the All Black's next Saturday. After all both Australia and New Zealand farm more sheep than the Welsh   

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3 minutes ago, Torpey'sBigToe said:

That doesn’t mean it’s not racist... It’s contextual, which is the point. You’re welcome.

If you think there’s no context to racism then good luck to you.

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The only question is

Why is this ***** thread on a Bristol City Forum and Football Sub Forum 

Too many on keyboards

 ‘I’m changing the world ‘

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The responses on this thread basically show what I was getting at in my original post. 

Its all so subjective it’s a complete minefield these days.

Is “you’re just a small town in Asia” any different from “you’re just a small town in wales” ? 

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5 minutes ago, ziderheadarmy said:

The responses on this thread basically show what I was getting at in my original post. 

Its all so subjective it’s a complete minefield these days.

Is “you’re just a small town in Asia” any different from “you’re just a small town in wales” ? 

Of course , you could have posted this **** on the pages and pages of posters wanting to be the most moral on the other thread instead of starting yet another thread of *******

This forum has had one ***** weekend

 

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1 hour ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

The only question is

Why is this ***** thread on a Bristol City Forum and Football Sub Forum 

Too many on keyboards

 ‘I’m changing the world ‘

Being on the wrong forum is a technical irrelevancy, the world ain’t gonna end.

no problem with people trying to inform and educate idiotic backwards opinions on a keyboard, every little helps and all that

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10 hours ago, city1983 said:

Idiot 

I suggest you visit the Welsh valleys and pop in one of the locals on a Saturday night and start shouting sheep sheep and see what type of welcome you receive?

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11 hours ago, ziderheadarmy said:

sections of the crowd are chanting sheep, sheep, sheep sh&£@r at Price who is obviously Welsh.

Is this racist? Banter? Harmless fun? 

Because (apart from presumably perhaps weirdos exchanging pictures in the far reaches of the dark web) no one actually has sex with sheep, the chant is by its nature comical because it couldn't possibly be true. The other chants you are presumably comparing to don't have any comical element and instead refer simply to Asians (who do exist) as the source of great shame.

In one chant the implication you're Welsh and therefore shag sheep (comical) and so considered inferior.

In the other chants the implication is simply that you're Asian and on that basis alone considered inferior.

One is lampooning one is bigoted. Hope this helps.

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10 hours ago, !james said:

Context.

These are the sort of people who's Twitter bio says: 

 

IMG_20191020_210101.jpg

Foreners? Foreners?

in the gym I was talking to a mate about this post.

 

i asked him if he could spell foreigner.. he got it right.

 

oh he’s Polish, is an electrician, earns double what I do , pays higher rate tax and NI. Is still married to his English missus of 10 years, both his kids consider themselves dual nationality, speaking polish and English impeccably

 

which one would I rather have a pint with????

Edited by gl1
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8 hours ago, Fjmcity said:

Being on the wrong forum is a technical irrelevancy, the world ain’t gonna end.

no problem with people trying to inform and educate idiotic backwards opinions on a keyboard, every little helps and all that

 

Yes , it gives yourself and others a chance to put the World right and show personal and political stances on the Internet on two threads instead of one

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3 minutes ago, Oh Louie louie said:

 

They call us worzels, anyone got a problem with scarecrows here?

Doubt it. The scarecrow was looking for a brain so I’d imagine quite a few people who’ve posted would find some common ground with him.

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38 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

 

Yes , it gives yourself and others a chance to put the World right and show personal and political stances on the Internet on two threads instead of one

sorry for airing my personal view that racism is morally reprehensible in a football forum, imagine my embarrassment.

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12 hours ago, ziderheadarmy said:

Just watching Gerwyn Price v Michael Van Gerwen, sections of the crowd are chanting sheep, sheep, sheep sh&£@r at Price who is obviously Welsh.

Is this racist? Banter? Harmless fun? 

Will these darts fans be identified by cctv and banned from future events?  

Double standards? 

Racism is a movable feast which is one of its main problems. Only some races/nationalities apply. 

Say I went in holiday with 3 mates. One a Welshman, one a Frenchman, one a Nigerian. I get home and I'm telling some other friends about my holiday in the pub. During my anecdote I do an impression of each of my friends. 

You know the rest. 

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1 hour ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

 

Yes , it gives yourself and others a chance to put the World right and show personal and political stances on the Internet on two threads instead of one

By ‘two threads instead of one’ I presume you are referring to the thread about the racism at Luton Town?

Does that therefore mean you think the songs chanted there were fine and nobody should be complaining about them?

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