054123 Posted October 21, 2019 Report Share Posted October 21, 2019 ..Because of reports of racism at Luton Town. Ive no doubt that a very small minority hold deeply offensive views and opinions, but I’ll also cling onto to the hope that, with football as it is, a number of people just join in aiming to antagonise, provoke etc. (Often younger fans). I don’t believe that those people are inherently racist, just lacking in thought and need to be brave enough to realise that it’s not hard and just not acceptable. I don’t know how, but we also need to demonstrate as a fan base overall it’s not acceptable. Really quite disappointed this morning and I’m a miserable, moaning middle aged fan who has seen and heard it all before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobBobSuperBob Posted October 21, 2019 Report Share Posted October 21, 2019 Yes Ironically following Social Media and the news over the weekend it is actually the rush of outrage and posturing by our own outraged fans desperate to say so all over social media that has highlighted the incidents and subsequent news storm and has us plastered all over the news Congratulations to all Another new thread to set them all off again always helps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogkev Posted October 21, 2019 Report Share Posted October 21, 2019 I'm of the firm opinion that there will always be a small percentage of white people who are racist, it doesn't matter where they're from, who they support, what they do etc, they are intolerant to people who are different to them. These people are a disgusting scar on the face of humanity, but they will always exist. Yet we always seem appalled and shocked by this. Unfortunately, just like any other club in the land, Bristol City will also have some supporters with this warped mind-set. Every time they rear their ugly heads, ban them and imprison them for at least 2 years. The lesson will soon be learnt that they need to silence their hideous views - and this is the way to handle all racists, in all wakes of life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoons Posted October 21, 2019 Report Share Posted October 21, 2019 4 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said: Yes Ironically following Social Media and the news over the weekend it is actually the rush of outrage and posturing by our own outraged fans desperate to say so all over social media that has highlighted the incidents and subsequent news storm and has us plastered all over the news Congratulations to all Could always sweep it under the carpet Bob ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobBobSuperBob Posted October 21, 2019 Report Share Posted October 21, 2019 1 minute ago, Spoons said: Could always sweep it under the carpet Bob ? Who’s swept what under a carpet ? Our fans fighting and queuing to be the most moral is intriguing though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoons Posted October 21, 2019 Report Share Posted October 21, 2019 4 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said: Who’s swept what under a carpet ? Our fans fighting and queuing to be the most moral is intriguing though Agree with the second part but clearly the issues raised by our own fans at Luton should be dealt with head on. This will mean national media coverage. But agree with the moral high ground issue as they issues aren't new. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
054123 Posted October 21, 2019 Author Report Share Posted October 21, 2019 7 minutes ago, reddogkev said: I'm of the firm opinion that there will always be a small percentage of white people who are racist, it doesn't matter where they're from, who they support, what they do etc, they are intolerant to people who are different to them. These people are a disgusting scar on the face of humanity, but they will always exist. Yet we always seem appalled and shocked by this. Unfortunately, just like any other club in the land, Bristol City will also have some supporters with this warped mind-set. Every time they rear their ugly heads, ban them and imprison them for at least 2 years. The lesson will soon be learnt that they need to silence their hideous views - and this is the way to handle all racists, in all wakes of life. I wouldn’t limit racism to skin colour. Racial, religious and sexuality intolerance exist on every continent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
054123 Posted October 21, 2019 Author Report Share Posted October 21, 2019 6 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said: Who’s swept what under a carpet ? Our fans fighting and queuing to be the most moral is intriguing though Mate, I agree with 99% of what you usually post. We both know that as humans there are a small minority whose views are awful and can’t be changed. But hopefully really highlighting the issue might help younger fans realise that they don’t have to join in and thar it’s not acceptable. Its not about being self righteous it’s just about trying to help people who aren’t inherently racist realise it’s not acceptable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobBobSuperBob Posted October 21, 2019 Report Share Posted October 21, 2019 8 minutes ago, Spoons said: Agree with the second part but clearly the issues raised by our own fans at Luton should be dealt with head on. This will mean national media coverage. But agree with the moral high ground issue as they issues aren't new. Whatever happened can be dealt with in the appropriate way TWO sections of our fans have pushed us into the National news and massive negative publicity , disproportionate I’d suggest to the actual incidents as I understand them At least three separate threads on this currently running says it all There was and is , a willy waving competition on the main thread as to who could prove to have the best and most outraged morals and who demonstrate their political views stronger We are doing a fantastic job at shooting ourselves in the foot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobBobSuperBob Posted October 21, 2019 Report Share Posted October 21, 2019 5 minutes ago, 054123 said: Mate, I agree with 99% of what you usually post. We both know that as humans there are a small minority whose views are awful and can’t be changed. But hopefully really highlighting the issue might help younger fans realise that they don’t have to join in and thar it’s not acceptable. Its not about being self righteous it’s just about trying to help people who aren’t inherently racist realise it’s not acceptable I’m not so sure In my life experience over reaction merely creates more of a divide and fuels the fire Fed up with the whole issue and the reactions too This forum has degenerated into a Political and moral dick waving contest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted October 21, 2019 Report Share Posted October 21, 2019 Suspect it may still have made the news, because when one outlet picks up on something, it can gain traction quickly from there. This era of 24/7 media, news especially. Plus even had it not been mentioned by any of our fans, who is to say that Luton fans wouldn't have Tweeted on it and therefore it spreads from there? Or a local paper- either here or in Luton. This week of all weeks too- where our (England) players suffered horrible racist abuse in Bulgaria. Our FA and even Boris Johnson getting involved in (rightly) pushing for heavy sanctions. Well of course there will be a spotlight on the UK game too, football returning post international break in that. One more thing- dunno if this was the first mention but a Luton fan I believe flagged it on Saturday afternoon. This was the original Tweet being highlighted by a City fan. So yes, it may still have gained traction- however that user deleted their Tweet but someone on Twitter took a screenshot of it- the timing is confusing as it says 17:59 yet is posted ass if it is live and as if during the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unan Posted October 21, 2019 Report Share Posted October 21, 2019 How thick can you be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
054123 Posted October 21, 2019 Author Report Share Posted October 21, 2019 4 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said: I’m not so sure In my life experience over reaction merely creates more of a divide and fuels the fire Fed up with the whole issue and the reactions too This forum has degenerated into a Political and moral dick waving contest I agree to a point. A couple of people have been arrested following the yeovil game. I expect Yeovil and there fans completely back this course of action and yet some are asking for Yeovil FC to be severely punished??? In our case I just feel that you have to realise the ramifications of your actions and that you just can’t do it. My point more is I think the majority are hangers on caught up in the tribalism of the match. I can fully envisage my 13 year old joining in for 30 seconds because everyone else around him is. He’s not racism, he’s the nicest person i know but he needs to know you shouldn’t. That’s mostly my job, but he’ll also look and see what others fans are doing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
054123 Posted October 21, 2019 Author Report Share Posted October 21, 2019 6 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said: Suspect it may still have made the news, because when one outlet picks up on something, it can gain traction quickly from there. This era of 24/7 media, news especially. Plus even had it not been mentioned by any of our fans, who is to say that Luton fans wouldn't have Tweeted on it and therefore it spreads from there? Or a local paper- either here or in Luton. This week of all weeks too- where our (England) players suffered horrible racist abuse in Bulgaria. Our FA and even Boris Johnson getting involved in (rightly) pushing for heavy sanctions. Well of course there will be a spotlight on the UK game too, football returning post international break in that. The bottom part of your post is spot on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Brent Posted October 21, 2019 Report Share Posted October 21, 2019 34 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said: Yes Ironically following Social Media and the news over the weekend it is actually the rush of outrage and posturing by our own outraged fans desperate to say so all over social media that has highlighted the incidents and subsequent news storm and has us plastered all over the news Congratulations to all Another new thread to set them all off again always helps Yep..nothing to do with the racists.. We could pretend it didn’t happen if you prefer. Personally I’d rather it was highlighted and sorted. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chappers Posted October 21, 2019 Report Share Posted October 21, 2019 As someone who was there, it was not that pleasant. Not up with the Bulgaria stuff, but not what you expect to see/hear at a football match. Certainly bad timing as it’s a hot media topic right now. At the end of the day it happened, it was not acceptable, and let’s make sure it doesn’t happen again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eastside Moonwalker Posted October 21, 2019 Report Share Posted October 21, 2019 There are always a bunch of knuckledraggers at the games, this doesn't surprise me as this seems to happen a lot at Luton but all fans should be banned, no place for it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
italian dave Posted October 21, 2019 Report Share Posted October 21, 2019 44 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said: Yes Ironically following Social Media and the news over the weekend it is actually the rush of outrage and posturing by our own outraged fans desperate to say so all over social media that has highlighted the incidents and subsequent news storm and has us plastered all over the news Congratulations to all Another new thread to set them all off again always helps Sorry Bob, can't agree with you in any way on this. So we're supposed to tolerate racism and bigotry in our midst just in case it gets the club in trouble or seen in a bad light? If anything, I think there's a positive in the fact that this is making the news as a result of City's own fans calling it out. Unlike the Yeovil incident, where it's taken the players themselves to walk off, and their fans seem to be adopting the approach of the Bulgarian manager (which presumably is what you think we should do), in the City case it's the fact that it's the fans themselves raising the issue and calllling it out that should give us some hope. I don't see calling out racism as "posturing". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBFC II Posted October 21, 2019 Report Share Posted October 21, 2019 43 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said: I’m not so sure In my life experience over reaction merely creates more of a divide and fuels the fire Fed up with the whole issue and the reactions too This forum has degenerated into a Political and moral dick waving contest There is no such a thing as an ‘over reaction’ when it comes to racism. People have quite rightly stood up about some of the sick and embarrassing songs sung at Luton, if we went down your path and tried to brush it under the carpet that would just make things worse. There are so many examples in history of people just getting on with things and ‘dealing with it’ when there was an obvious injustice, nowadays though that is most definitely not the way to do it. Personally I think it’s spot on that people have brought this up and the club is looking into it and hopefully any perpetrators can be dealt with accordingly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
And Its Smith Posted October 21, 2019 Report Share Posted October 21, 2019 As a fan base we need to show that it won’t be accepted, not all keep quiet to hope it goes away like it’s some PR exercise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobBobSuperBob Posted October 21, 2019 Report Share Posted October 21, 2019 47 minutes ago, David Brent said: Yep..nothing to do with the racists.. We could pretend it didn’t happen if you prefer. Personally I’d rather it was highlighted and sorted. Cheers 32 minutes ago, italian dave said: Sorry Bob, can't agree with you in any way on this. So we're supposed to tolerate racism and bigotry in our midst just in case it gets the club in trouble or seen in a bad light? If anything, I think there's a positive in the fact that this is making the news as a result of City's own fans calling it out. Unlike the Yeovil incident, where it's taken the players themselves to walk off, and their fans seem to be adopting the approach of the Bulgarian manager (which presumably is what you think we should do), in the City case it's the fact that it's the fans themselves raising the issue and calllling it out that should give us some hope. I don't see calling out racism as "posturing". 16 minutes ago, JBFC II said: There is no such a thing as an ‘over reaction’ when it comes to racism. People have quite rightly stood up about some of the sick and embarrassing songs sung at Luton, if we went down your path and tried to brush it under the carpet that would just make things worse. There are so many examples in history of people just getting on with things and ‘dealing with it’ when there was an obvious injustice, nowadays though that is most definitely not the way to do it. Personally I think it’s spot on that people have brought this up and the club is looking into it and hopefully any perpetrators can be dealt with accordingly My point is simple If people are , as they like to express on the Internet so outraged , fine , do something about it (Not fight a queue to express their views on a Internet Forum) How many of those , who are expressing outrage and disgust at what happened at Luton recorded the behaviour and have contacted the Club or the Police with their footage , how many have offered themselves as witnesses ? Ranting on a forum about it is easier There are plenty in this world who walk by something that is criminal or what they regard as outrageous , the courageous step forward there and then , not on the Internet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBFC II Posted October 21, 2019 Report Share Posted October 21, 2019 6 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said: My point is simple If people are , as they like to express on the Internet so outraged , fine , do something about it (Not fight a queue to express their views on a Internet Forum) How many of those , who are expressing outrage and disgust at what happened at Luton recorded the behaviour and have contacted the Club or the Police with their footage , how many have offered themselves as witnesses ? Ranting on a forum about it is easier There are plenty in this world who walk by something that is criminal or what they regard as outrageous , the courageous step forward there and then , not on the Internet The club have been made fully aware of the incidents and so there is no need for ‘witnesses’ or for anyone to get in touch with the club. In fact, I reckon officials will be reading the forum seeing what people have to say, so the fact that people are putting their views across about how disgraceful this behaviour is is only a good thing. If we did take your route and just shut up about it, push it to non football and try to forget about it, then that would be the worst form of action possible imo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
italian dave Posted October 21, 2019 Report Share Posted October 21, 2019 14 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said: My point is simple If people are , as they like to express on the Internet so outraged , fine , do something about it (Not fight a queue to express their views on a Internet Forum) How many of those , who are expressing outrage and disgust at what happened at Luton recorded the behaviour and have contacted the Club or the Police with their footage , how many have offered themselves as witnesses ? Ranting on a forum about it is easier There are plenty in this world who walk by something that is criminal or what they regard as outrageous , the courageous step forward there and then , not on the Internet Bob, that was happening at the game. Look at the Luton tweet above. Look at the many comments on the other thread about people reporting things to stewards, telling others to shut up and so on. But the fact is that we live in the social media world and that's where people go to discuss things afterwards. Personally, my only 'social media' is the relatively sane and reasonable world of OTIB, but there's plenty of less savoury places and comments and the racists should be challenged there too. I just find it odd that your own outrage in this instance seems to be reserved for those who call out racism, not those who espouse it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayne allisons tongues Posted October 21, 2019 Report Share Posted October 21, 2019 Hasn’t helped being on national news.Live and work in Manchester and been mentioned a few times, didn’t know your fans were racist. My boss has asked me did I go and was I involved, told him I didn’t go, but seems this is gaining momentum. Really bad publicity for the club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRISTOL86 Posted October 21, 2019 Report Share Posted October 21, 2019 Personally I’m glad it’s being talked about tbh, it’s been swept under the carpet too long. The more attention this gains the more chance of the scum being driven away from being anything to with Bristol City which can only be a good thing. I’d rather we were known as a fan base that collectively condemns it - even if it paints us in a negative lights - than one who silently pretend it’s not an issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted October 21, 2019 Report Share Posted October 21, 2019 Now here is a question. HAVE the national news reported SL's statement on it as well? Quite forceful and clear- if not, then why not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Exile Posted October 21, 2019 Report Share Posted October 21, 2019 I agree with you on so many things Bob - and sorry to single you out - but not this. so...I have called out racism at Ashton Gate. Some years ago. Stood up and called out a chap who - on his own - was chanting racist abuse at a linesman. I didn't think too much about it - just did it there and then. The reaction of people around me was tutting about me making a fuss - 'ark at ee' type comments - directed at me. At half time the chap chanting (who shut up sharpish) came and sat by me and told me he couldn't be a racist because he had black mates at work. The lasting effect was that we never heard a peep from him again, but I felt uncomfortable for the rest of the season sitting with a bunch of people who felt more comfortable with racist chanting than with reporting it. It can't be left to individuals. This is scary stuff. Puts the complaining individual at personal risk. I'm hoping the club acts. A membership scheme for away travel would address many problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted October 21, 2019 Report Share Posted October 21, 2019 4 minutes ago, Red Exile said: I agree with you on so many things Bob - and sorry to single you out - but not this. so...I have called out racism at Ashton Gate. Some years ago. Stood up and called out a chap who - on his own - was chanting racist abuse at a linesman. I didn't think too much about it - just did it there and then. The reaction of people around me was tutting about me making a fuss - 'ark at ee' type comments - directed at me. At half time the chap chanting (who shut up sharpish) came and sat by me and told me he couldn't be a racist because he had black mates at work. The lasting effect was that we never heard a peep from him again, but I felt uncomfortable for the rest of the season sitting with a bunch of people who felt more comfortable with racist chanting than with reporting it. It can't be left to individuals. This is scary stuff. Puts the complaining individual at personal risk. I'm hoping the club acts. A membership scheme for away travel would address many problems. Were it to become a recurring theme, then maybe worth looking at- but I don't believe it to be proportionate at this stage. At all. It's only right it's being called out by fans, by club- but let's not have knee jerk reactions for a single, albeit clearly offensive and unacceptable, incident. You're right too, it can definitely put people at risk- how many years ago out of interest? Game has changed significantly in last 10, 20, 30 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
italian dave Posted October 21, 2019 Report Share Posted October 21, 2019 4 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said: Now here is a question. HAVE the national news reported SL's statement on it as well? Quite forceful and clear- if not, then why not? Agree. And have they reported that it's been City's own fans who've generated the concern about the small minority among us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Exile Posted October 21, 2019 Report Share Posted October 21, 2019 6 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said: Were it to become a recurring theme, then maybe worth looking at- but I don't believe it to be proportionate at this stage. At all. It's only right it's being called out by fans, by club- but let's not have knee jerk reactions for a single, albeit clearly offensive and unacceptable, incident. You're right too, it can definitely put people at risk- how many years ago out of interest? Game has changed significantly in last 10, 20, 30 years. less than 10 years...not so long ago sadly. Amongst the problems an away membership would solve would be the inability for regular away fans to purchase tickets...but that's another issue - to be faced again in a few minutes when Cardiff tickets go on sale! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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