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26 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

 

 

My point is simple

If people are , as they like to express on the Internet so outraged , fine , do something about it (Not fight a queue to express their views on a Internet Forum)

How many of those , who are expressing outrage and disgust at what happened at Luton recorded the behaviour and have contacted the Club or the Police with their footage , how many have offered themselves as witnesses ?

Ranting on a forum about it is easier

 

There are plenty in this world who walk by something that is criminal or what they regard as outrageous , the courageous step forward there and then , not on the Internet 

I wasn't there Bob but I am still upset at the actions of a small minority at the game. You know as well as I do that it takes very little for people to go from "small minority" to "all" when talking about groups of people. You can't be surprised surely at the need for people to distance themselves from the actions of a few idiots as quickly as possible? You rightly ask about who is reporting the incidents and some say that there were reports made at the time, and we can only hope there will be people supplying evidence now it's being requested.

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3 minutes ago, Red Exile said:

less than 10 years...not so long ago sadly. Amongst the problems an away membership would solve would be the inability for regular away fans to purchase tickets...but that's another issue - to be faced again in a few minutes when Cardiff tickets go on sale!

Technically there are workarounds but I certainly wouldn't know of these! To most things though, there are workarounds.

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3 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Essentially, we as a nation are pushing the issue at UEFA about racism.

Spotlight on UK football partially due to this- timing and mentality of those who sang/chanted these chants, putting aside the fact it is unacceptable in any case, is incredible.

Yes I agree. It was a deeply regrettable thing to happen, but surely it's simply a case of dealing with the culprits and moving on

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2 minutes ago, AshtonGreat said:

Yes I agree. It was a deeply regrettable thing to happen, but surely it's simply a case of dealing with the culprits and moving on

As I'm sure the club will. Will also have to actively be showing this to be the case- ie not just doing the right thing but seen to be doing so to cover all bases.

Still, this sort of thing at this time will always attract publicity- perhaps more than usual due to the racism in Bulgaria.

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Actually I’m glad this has happened. Pressure from society and other fans against this kind of behaviour will have a stronger effect than a token fine from a football association. 

It’s not about the moral high ground for me, it’s about standing up to and calling it out. The time for turning a blind eye has to stop.

It’s up to the authorities to police and sanction, not the public - but it’s up to us as a society to make it unacceptable. It sounds like some City fans stood up to it at the time, so well done to them.

Sticking our heads in the sand or covering it up - just to stop some people making it political - is not the way the forward in my opinion. 

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1 hour ago, italian dave said:

Bob, that was happening at the game. Look at the Luton tweet above. Look at the many comments on the other thread about people reporting things to stewards, telling others to shut up and so on.

But the fact is that we live in the social media world and that's where people go to discuss things afterwards. Personally, my only 'social media' is the relatively sane and reasonable world of OTIB, but there's plenty of less savoury places and comments and the racists should be challenged there too.

I just find it odd that your own outrage in this instance seems to be reserved for those who call out racism, not those who espouse it.

I’ll put your ‘oddness’ back in its box

Just because I don’t wish to get involved in the political posturing and ranting on a thread which is 12 pages and still full of arguing and posturing doesn’t mean I in anyway approve or accept what appears to have occurred at Luton.

As I’ve pointed out  there is a hot running thread multi page thread about the subject which is toxic and sufficient as a place for those that wish to engage to do so

Since then we’ve reignited the same subject on a thread about ******* darts

And now fans surprised that the social media outrage has hit national headlines , or rather the incidents , not fans condemnations , which is unsurprising and a negative from the Clubs perspective

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Sorry if i seem passionate about this but I have lived with racism for many years living in Australia. I have always been classed as a whinging Pomm, have witnessed verbal and physical abuse in the work place from all walks of life. Australia has a massive cross section of ethnic back grounds in all states and territories and all we want to do is make a living and make a successful life for our families and I know it sounds a bit corny “we need to live in harmony and respect others”

There has always been racism in football but we need to embrace the skill of players from many countries from around the world. Football is the world game and football needs to be Pivotel in cracking hard with racism.

I’m fairly new to OTIB for other reasons but I have in my short term picked up on many threads on Brexit of which I think should be put to bed. However everyone has there point of view.

lets cut out racism on OTIB or references to racism in other ways.

COYR.

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I'm massively opposed to the economic madness of Brexit, but singing "Brexit songs" (God, what a dull album that would be!) is not racist, nor, necessarily is "we want our country back", depending on the context.

"Small town in Asia" is naff, dated and definitely on the borderline of acceptability, while "Oh Tommy Robinson" is both showing support for a racist - and in the context of being in Luton - pretty moronic.

Genuinely though, why do people feel the need to sing political songs at a football match? Things go horribly wrong when football and politics mingle. 

Last Saturday, there was enough to concern us on the pitch, without chanting about some shit that has no relevance to where you were.

Thank God I never hear that shit at AG. And I didn't hear it at the one away game I was able to get to this season either.

I understand the point about not airing the club's dirty laundry in public, but to be quite honest, it has to be stamped out before it's seen as "normal". 

If that means a bit of pain and embarrassment for the club, so be it.

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1 hour ago, Port Said Red said:

I wasn't there Bob but I am still upset at the actions of a small minority at the game. You know as well as I do that it takes very little for people to go from "small minority" to "all" when talking about groups of people. You can't be surprised surely at the need for people to distance themselves from the actions of a few idiots as quickly as possible? You rightly ask about who is reporting the incidents and some say that there were reports made at the time, and we can only hope there will be people supplying evidence now it's being requested.

I was at the game saturday and "Small minority" isn't the correct term believe me.
It started off as a small chant about tommy robinson involving a few idiots which escalated into must have been about 100-200 fans singing it. Loudest song of the day was that which tells the story. All came within the last 20-30 minutes when people were extremely frustrated with the teams performance, however that isn't an excuse for the vile chants. 

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4 minutes ago, Robson said:

I was at the game saturday and "Small minority" isn't the correct term believe me.
It started off as a small chant about tommy robinson involving a few idiots which escalated into must have been about 100-200 fans singing it. Loudest song of the day was that which tells the story. All came within the last 20-30 minutes when people were extremely frustrated with the teams performance, however that isn't an excuse for the vile chants. 

I don't doubt your account- you were there after all.

A problem though is depending on what you read, where you read the numbers seem to range from a handful, to 20 to 100-200! A bit like the Swansea game last season where a late escort arriving kicked in- seemed to range from 200-800 and anything in between! So we really cannot tell for sure at this stage.

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32 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

I’ll put your ‘oddness’ back in its box

Just because I don’t wish to get involved in the political posturing and ranting on a thread which is 12 pages and still full of arguing and posturing doesn’t mean I in anyway approve or accept what appears to have occurred at Luton.

As I’ve pointed out  there is a hot running thread multi page thread about the subject which is toxic and sufficient as a place for those that wish to engage to do so

Since then we’ve reignited the same subject on a thread about ******* darts

And now fans surprised that the social media outrage has hit national headlines , or rather the incidents , not fans condemnations , which is unsurprising and a negative from the Clubs perspective

So you don't wish to get involved in a thread you've now posted multiple times in?

Am I missing something here?

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1 minute ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

I don't doubt your account- you were there after all.

A problem though is depending on what you read, where you read the numbers seem to range from a handful, to 20 to 100-200! A bit like the Swansea game last season where a late escort arriving kicked in- seemed to range from 200-800 and anything in between!

Yes you are not wrong. I usually range the amount of people by the loudness of the songs. 
20 people singing tommy robinson wouldn't be that loud then compare it to 100 people singing it and it would be a lot louder. I suppose that comes from going to a lot of away games. I hope this is solved very quickly and the club can move on from it, this negative media isn't doing any good for the club. 

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4 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

I'm massively opposed to the economic madness of Brexit, but singing "Brexit songs" (God, what a dull album that would be!) is not racist, nor, necessarily is "we want our country back", depending on the context.

"Small town in Asia" is naff, dated and definitely on the borderline of acceptability, while "Oh Tommy Robinson" is both showing support for a racist - and in the context of being in Luton - pretty moronic.

Genuinely though, why do people feel the need to sing political songs at a football match? Things go horribly wrong when football and politics mingle. 

Last Saturday, there was enough to concern us on the pitch, without chanting about some shit that has no relevance to where you were.

Thank God I never hear that shit at AG. And I didn't hear it at the one away game I was able to get to this season either.

I understand the point about not airing the club's dirty laundry in public, but to be quite honest, it has to be stamped out before it's seen as "normal". 

If that means a bit of pain and embarrassment for the club, so be it.

Problem is, Rob, as I mentioned elsewhere, it's not really racist ideology that's being 'stamped out', it's the acceptability of expressing those views in public. So when a bunch of likeminded blokes (and it is usually blokes) get together, have a bit too much to drink and stand on a football terrace, those views come out. 

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2 minutes ago, AshtonGreat said:

Problem is, Rob, as I mentioned elsewhere, it's not really racist ideology that's being 'stamped out', it's the acceptability of expressing those views in public. So when a bunch of likeminded blokes (and it is usually blokes) get together, have a bit too much to drink and stand on a football terrace, those views come out. 

Leaving all specifics behind, singing political songs should have no place in football.

I'm not going to stand up on Wednesday and try and get a chant going of "I want a liberal democracy with a more reflective voting system and a mixed economy" - even if I could think of a tune to set that to.

Happily debate politics on here, as you know, but inside a ground it has no place. It's as inappropriate in a stadium as it would be in a supermarket.

Throw in the racial element and you get - inevitably - bad publicity for the club,  and ordinary supporters like me being angry at being tarred by association.

I'm 4th generation City. It runs through me like the words on a stick of rock.

But if I thought we had a large number of racist supporters and were getting a reputation as a racist club, I'd stop going. I'd not want to be thought I was condoning it by my toleration of it.

As it happens I don't think we're a racist club or have lots of racist supporters.  Far-right parties and movement's usually get nowhere in Bristol. 

But that's why we need to tackle the small pockets of rot before it spreads.

We need to set boundaries of acceptable behaviour.

 

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24 minutes ago, JBFC II said:

So you don't wish to get involved in a thread you've now posted multiple times in?

Am I missing something here?

The thread I was referring to is not this thread which I’ve posted in

Apologies if that was so difficult to understand for an academic

 

Hope  that helps

Go and take your experienced know it all attitude elsewhere , you normally find someone 

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Gotta collectively make a stand against this behaviour … call em out, make them uncomfortable and unwelcome, theres power in numbers and I suspect after a bit of resistance the cretins will melt away and find another rock to crawl under well away from Ashton Gate...  While they exist among us sadly, wrongly, as always, the vast majority of ordinary decent fans become guilty by association and are in danger of being unfairly tarred by the same brush.

It only takes a few particularly rotten apples to ruin the cider!  

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12 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

Leaving all specifics behind, singing political songs should have no place in football.

I'm not going to stand up on Wednesday and try and get a chant going of "I want a liberal democracy with a more reflective voting system and a mixed economy" - even if I could think of a tune to set that to.

Happily debate politics on here, as you know, but inside a ground it has no place. It's as inappropriate in a stadium as it would be in a supermarket.

Throw in the racial element and you get - inevitably - bad publicity for the club,  and ordinary supporters like me being angry at being tarred by association.

I'm 4th generation City. It runs through me like the words on a stick of rock.

But if I thought we had a large number of racist supporters and were getting a reputation as a racist club, I'd stop going. I'd not want to be thought I was condoning it by my toleration of it.

As it happens I don't think we're a racist club or have lots of racist supporters.  Far-right parties and movement's usually get nowhere in Bristol. 

But that's why we need to tackle the small pockets of rot before it spreads.

We need to set boundaries of acceptable behaviour.

 

I agree with you, I'm just trying to analyse why it occurs :)

 

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4 hours ago, 054123 said:

Mate, I agree with 99% of what you usually post. We both know that as humans there are a small minority whose views are awful and can’t be changed.

But hopefully really highlighting the issue might help younger fans realise that they don’t have to join in and thar it’s not acceptable.

Its not about being self righteous it’s just about trying to help people who aren’t inherently racist realise it’s not acceptable 

Seconded, both in terms of liking a lot of Bob’s posts but also that this has to be tackled head on. We would not have got this far in changing society’s views if people had left it unchallenged.

It doesn’t mean that people highlighting it think they’re perfect either.

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4 hours ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Yes 

Ironically following Social Media and the news over the weekend it is actually the rush of outrage and posturing by our own outraged fans desperate to say so all over social media that has highlighted the incidents and  subsequent news storm and has us plastered all over the news 

 

Congratulations to all

 

 

Another new thread to set them all off again always helps  

 

Agree, and like I said previously, now is the time for these people who were in attendance to stick their heads above the parapet and genuinely help the club identify the culprits like any decent person would do if they saw something that genuinely outraged them. Surely you wouldn’t just moan about it for your own self satisfaction and do nothing.

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1 hour ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

The thread I was referring to is not this thread which I’ve posted in

Apologies if that was so difficult to understand for an academic

 

Hope  that helps

Go and take your experienced know it all attitude elsewhere , you normally find someone 

Didn’t take you long to turn personal did it?

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