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spudski

Famara 'Rant'...

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... haven't seen it mentioned elsewhere, but thought it was very telling from LJs quotes about Famaras performance at Luton.

Apparently heated debate continued after game. And LJ didn't think Famaras passionate argument was reasonable.

Some very interesting comments about doing the basics right and having to play better and right preparation.

Thought it would be better than all the racism talk...

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2 minutes ago, spudski said:

... haven't seen it mentioned elsewhere, but thought it was very telling from LJs quotes about Famaras performance at Luton.

Apparently heated debate continued after game. And LJ didn't think Famaras passionate argument was reasonable.

Some very interesting comments about doing the basics right and having to play better and right preparation.

Thought it would be better than all the racism talk...

Also picked out Palmer for the special treatment.  He knows what he's doing , a fired up Fam is exactly what we need at the moment.  Fully expect him to start Wednesday. 

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It's strange because I thought Deidhiou actually had one of his best games for a while against Luton, albeit without really threatening their goal (but then none of our players managed that). Looked to me as though he was dropping a bit deeper than usual though, and he played well in close quarters, getting free of his marker on a couple of occasions. Perhaps he just didn't follow LJ's instructions in the second half though. LJ often talks about the simple things but then often argues for "that little bit of magic" being needed to unlock defences.

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I don't really get the Palmer and Diedhiou selection. It has always looked like they should be playing for completely different sides in how they link up. Surely LJ can see this, or is he just hoping it improves.

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11 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

I don't really get the Palmer and Diedhiou selection. It has always looked like they should be playing for completely different sides in how they link up. Surely LJ can see this, or is he just hoping it improves.

Think he's been hamstrung since Afobes injury...and hoping certain players raise their game.

I thought the whole Army quote about preparing correctly was interesting. There was also mention of preparation in rest, nutrition, pre prep before a game.

Obviously some things have come to the fore.

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Players with enough experience and passion dare to let the gaffer know they don’t agree with him!  Not new is it?

What does this say about the streaky nature of the last few seasons? History about to repeat itself? I sincerely hope not!

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50 minutes ago, Vincent Vega said:

Also picked out Palmer for the special treatment.  He knows what he's doing , a fired up Fam is exactly what we need at the moment.  Fully expect him to start Wednesday. 

What we really need is a striker instead of Fam. Let's hope it happens at last in January.

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2 minutes ago, dave36 said:

Players with enough experience and passion dare to let the gaffer know they don’t agree with him!  Not new is it?

What does this say about the streaky nature of the last few seasons? History about to repeat itself? I sincerely hope not!

I think LJ is a very honest coach...he praises when it's due and isn't scared to criticise openly.

If LJ though Famaras passionate response was fair, he would have said. 

In this case, it came across that he wasn't happy and that Famara had no right to complain.

That speaks volumes to me...and also that the debate continued.

I understand LJs frustration and also his frustration at Palmer.

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12 minutes ago, Redrascal2 said:

What we really need is a striker instead of Fam. Let's hope it happens at last in January.

Yep , someone new to smash the ball 40yards up top to.

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Afobe had the balls hoofed up to him ... difference was he could control them and lay them off .. They ricochet off Fammy

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He likes it when Fam’s angry , looks like he’s pushing his buttons.

Hopefully he will take it out on Charlton’s defence .

 I like LJ’s honesty though sometimes wonder if he says too much .

 

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20 minutes ago, wendyredredrobin said:

That assumes he can be bothered to make a run towards them, of course.

When he’s not flat footed and on his heels you mean ? 

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His heat map from the Luton game speaks volumes imo... didn't even show him in the opposition's box it was that limited and only 39 touches all game.

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I thought he was decent first half and was one of our better players - a bit frustrating at times with his refusal to run in behind (it would help Palmer as well if he did). However, he was holding the ball up well enough and went on a couple of runs where he beat a few of their players... didn't stop the blokes behind me blaming him for absolutely everything mind, we could lose the ball 50 yards from Fam and it would be his fault for not spinning his man.

Second half he didn't show up (I thought the blokes behind me were going to implode) but realistically none of our players showed up with the exception of Bentley (with an Honorable mention for Taylor Moore who was our next best player imo),

Truth be told I was more concerned by how poor Brownhill was and how nonexistent Weimann was for the majority. I don't want to be critical of Massengo as he is a young lad who is still developing physically but he was muscled out the game by Luton and definitely needed more help from those around him, I think this was probably why Famara kept dropping deeper and deeper - but by this point he was playing so poorly that he was probably more of a hindrance than a help.

Anyways... My point being is that LJ could have voiced his disapproval at 8 or 9 of our starting 11 and they couldn't really have many complaints.

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I think the fact that Fam was subbed gave the opportunity for them to both express their disapproval of each other in the heat of the moment - not always the best time. I don't think LJ is the sort to hold grudges against a player who's forthright in their views, even if he disagrees.

That said, I'd be very surprised if we don't see Rodri given a good run on Wednesday; either starting or as a fairly early sub.

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A player like Fam shouldn't need firing up. He's a big lad and should be giving defences a hard time but in so many games he gets beaten in the air a lot, knocked off the ball and doesn't move much. And surely he can improve his touch with some training sessions? If he could improve his control and run at defenders he'd be hard to play against 

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4 minutes ago, paul_fox said:

A player like Fam shouldn't need firing up. He's a big lad and should be giving defences a hard time but in so many games he gets beaten in the air a lot, knocked off the ball and doesn't move much. And surely he can improve his touch with some training sessions? If he could improve his control and run at defenders he'd be hard to play against 

Most of us have been saying that since he came here, but he won’t get better without good support and I think that was the issue Saturday, he got taken off when his most consistent provider came on, most of us agree that Elliasson should start, the best crosser we have, ok defensively he still has to improve but we need more goals! Palmer seems to be echoing the same failings as a number of recent loanees that have become permanent, showed lots of promise on loan and then.......one for the Psychologists perhaps!

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2 hours ago, JonDolman said:

I don't really get the Palmer and Diedhiou selection. It has always looked like they should be playing for completely different sides in how they link up. Surely LJ can see this, or is he just hoping it improves.

LJ sees what he sees, it sure ain’t what we see, rarely has been!

I could understand it if he had no options, but he sees them in training and then what we see on the pitch has to be something very different or they would not have been selected! Will it change? I don’t think so, the fans frustrations don’t interest him and his  decisions and tactics are to say the least, weird!

10 games unbeaten was a hell of a good run, for most of those matches our midfield was ok and the defence fairly solid, but the midfield has become poor and the attack toothless.  Our opponents see our tactics as a weakness they can easily exploit - it’s bloody frustrating being a city fan!

 

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I don’t think Diedhiou will change. He has been here a couple of years now and unless we play differently and give him a partner he can click with we will get more of the same.

Afobe did highlight his shortcomings, I totally agree @Sturny. I had forgotten what pkayingvwith a striker that could hold up the ball and bring others into the game was like until Afobe.

I guess I was surprised Diedhiou got the nod on Saturday, having been on international duty the other side of the world. He often looks jaded at the best of times. But what real choice did we have I guess?

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3 minutes ago, dave36 said:

LJ sees what he sees, it sure ain’t what we see, rarely has been!

I could understand it if he had no options, but he sees them in training and then what we see on the pitch has to be something very different or they would not have been selected! Will it change? I don’t think so, the fans frustrations don’t interest him and his  decisions and tactics are to say the least, weird!

10 games unbeaten was a hell of a good run, for most of those matches our midfield was ok and the defence fairly solid, but the midfield has become poor and the attack toothless.  Our opponents see our tactics as a weakness they can easily exploit - it’s bloody frustrating being a city fan!

 

Think that's really harsh...not many teams will have done as well with so many injuries to vital players.

LJ knows we needed a striker...Nketiah did one and Afobe was doing awesome and then got injured.

Fam got dropped... he's really not taken his chance since and as LJ pointed out, not even doing the basics well.

Add that to players having to play every game to cover the injuries...we can all see where the failings lie.

I know not everyone likes the XG league...but we sit firmly bottom by miles.

We just don't create chances...and it will catch up with us, as it did against Luton.

I'm fearing the worst against Charlton.

 

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2 minutes ago, spudski said:

Think that's really harsh...not many teams will have done as well with so many injuries to vital players.

LJ knows we needed a striker...Nketiah did one and Afobe was doing awesome and then got injured.

Fam got dropped... he's really not taken his chance since and as LJ pointed out, not even doing the basics well.

Add that to players having to play every game to cover the injuries...we can all see where the failings lie.

I know not everyone likes the XG league...but we sit firmly bottom by miles.

We just don't create chances...and it will catch up with us, as it did against Luton.

I'm fearing the worst against Charlton.

 

If we don’t play WITH our front man the we should not have a front man! Simple, we did it before and it worked really well!

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3 minutes ago, dave36 said:

If we don’t play WITH our front man the we should not have a front man! Simple, we did it before and it worked really well!

Let's see how Rodri works out and hopefully we get someone decent in January.

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2 minutes ago, spudski said:

Let's see how Rodri works out and hopefully we get someone decent in January.

100% with you on that, different kind of player and that’s the point with Fam, who needs service!
Rodri looks more of a footballing forward

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I don’t get this our players are fatigued, Luton’s looked ok and have played the same number of games.

LJ needs to change the team if players are fatigued.

Bsker at lb frees Rowe for Cm

Plsy Eliasson more, even play 2 up front. Players are there, COD, Watkins, Wright, Pereria have hardly played. 
Why keep subbing Moors, take off someone else to freshen it up.

LJ loves making excuses but never changes things, think he’s a bit like SC and is to stubborn with his formations.

Would be nice if we played a game and got the formation right for once instead of changing it endlessly during the match.

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There’s no need for any professional sportsman to be “fatigued” if they’re fit...more of the usual bull from a football manager/coach rather than admitting we didn’t play well.

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1 hour ago, cider-manc said:

I thought he was decent first half and was one of our better players - a bit frustrating at times with his refusal to run in behind (it would help Palmer as well if he did). However, he was holding the ball up well enough and went on a couple of runs where he beat a few of their players... didn't stop the blokes behind me blaming him for absolutely everything mind, we could lose the ball 50 yards from Fam and it would be his fault for not spinning his man.

I thought he was decent enough first half too, but nothing second half.  It’s not difficult to notice that Palmer plays better without Fam in the side, and I think Fam doesn’t suit Weimann that well either.  Problemo.

Second half he didn't show up (I thought the blokes behind me were going to implode) but realistically none of our players showed up with the exception of Bentley (with an Honorable mention for Taylor Moore who was our next best player imo),

agree, those two were our shining lights on Saturday.  Why hook Moore, and not Baker (or Williams for that matter)?  His advancing with the ball was one of the encouraging things from my perspective.

Truth be told I was more concerned by how poor Brownhill was and how nonexistent Weimann was for the majority. I don't want to be critical of Massengo as he is a young lad who is still developing physically but he was muscled out the game by Luton and definitely needed more help from those around him, I think this was probably why Famara kept dropping deeper and deeper - but by this point he was playing so poorly that he was probably more of a hindrance than a help.

From watching Robinstv I thought JB and HNM didn’t play as a horizontal pair, like they had in previous games, it was more HNM in advance.  It meant we weren’t as compact as usual and offered less protection to the back 3.  That 2 filling the gaps in front of the 3xCBs has been key to solidity.

Anyways... My point being is that LJ could have voiced his disapproval at 8 or 9 of our starting 11 and they couldn't really have many complaints.

he could indeed.  Hopefully a one in ten game, and we bounce back on Wednesday.  The eleven on Wednesday will be interesting.

 

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2 hours ago, paul_fox said:

A player like Fam shouldn't need firing up. He's a big lad and should be giving defences a hard time but in so many games he gets beaten in the air a lot, knocked off the ball and doesn't move much. And surely he can improve his touch with some training sessions? If he could improve his control and run at defenders he'd be hard to play against 

O’Driscoll once said that players ability to control and pass is what it is at around 21 years of age. After that you can’t really improve it. What you can improve is their footballing brain, movement, patterns of play and the like.  I’ve thought a lot about that since and as he is a top coach and I’m not maybe he is correct and if he is that means Fam is as good as he gets in those areas 

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1 hour ago, dave36 said:

Most of us have been saying that since he came here, but he won’t get better without good support and I think that was the issue Saturday, he got taken off when his most consistent provider came on, most of us agree that Elliasson should start, the best crosser we have, ok defensively he still has to improve but we need more goals! Palmer seems to be echoing the same failings as a number of recent loanees that have become permanent, showed lots of promise on loan and then.......one for the Psychologists perhaps!

Elliasson has never managed a consistent 90 minutes - I think that's why he's mainly used as an impact sub.

In Palmer's case I think we're seeing exactly the player we had on loan.

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28 minutes ago, Sleepy1968 said:

Elliasson has never managed a consistent 90 minutes - I think that's why he's mainly used as an impact sub.

In Palmer's case I think we're seeing exactly the player we had on loan.

Palmer, yes a player who, once signed,  with preparation and improved fitness would be the Messiah, not happening though!

Almost every time he tries his fancy footwork the opposing player stands off and robs him when he breaks.

too slow and inconsistent no end effect too often.

Elliasson, impact yes but he is able to disrupt defences and we don’t have another player that can do that and provide the killer pass, so why are we having to wait until the game is gone before he gets his chance?  It’s crazy football when we play a lumbering 9 with no proper support! Luton we took that 9 off when we introduced that supporting  player, sorry but that’s a coach running out of ideas.

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1 hour ago, dave36 said:

Palmer, yes a player who, once signed,  with preparation and improved fitness would be the Messiah, not happening though!

Almost every time he tries his fancy footwork the opposing player stands off and robs him when he breaks.

too slow and inconsistent no end effect too often.

Elliasson, impact yes but he is able to disrupt defences and we don’t have another player that can do that and provide the killer pass, so why are we having to wait until the game is gone before he gets his chance?  It’s crazy football when we play a lumbering 9 with no proper support! Luton we took that 9 off when we introduced that supporting  player, sorry but that’s a coach running out of ideas.

Palmer and Elliason both still young: Both also nearly fantastic. Could well progress quickly from here 

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Two points:

LJ said he wants to see Fam play angry  maybe he is winding him up so he performs as he could ?

Lucky we only paid 5 million for him . We should easily get that back if we were to sell him . That is peanuts for an established Championship forward and International.

 

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6 hours ago, dave36 said:

Palmer, yes a player who, once signed,  with preparation and improved fitness would be the Messiah, not happening though!

Almost every time he tries his fancy footwork the opposing player stands off and robs him when he breaks.

too slow and inconsistent no end effect too often.

Elliasson, impact yes but he is able to disrupt defences and we don’t have another player that can do that and provide the killer pass, so why are we having to wait until the game is gone before he gets his chance?  It’s crazy football when we play a lumbering 9 with no proper support! Luton we took that 9 off when we introduced that supporting  player, sorry but that’s a coach running out of ideas.

Don’t forget that Palmer is only 22 . 

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8 hours ago, Davefevs said:

 

Interesting point about the midfield duo. 

To be honest from where i was stood it was impossible to tell if they were in a line as i spent most the game either ducking or standing on my toes to see past the crossbar! 

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I wondering if Fam's performances stay the same would this be his last season with us? Does his contract finish this season or next? 

Be interesting to know what he's valued. I'll be surprised if we get above what we paid but you never know with MA. 

Edited by Sturny

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14 hours ago, RedDave said:

He was awful on Saturday. My biggest annoyance is inconsistency. Much rather a 7/10 every week than a player who is 9 one week and 5 the next 

That's easy to solve. 

Play him one week, drop him the next and so on...

Guaranteed 9/10 performances every time he plays :D 

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As I've posted previously, LJ has every right to demand more from his players. They simply have to perform. I would agree though that there has to be a spot for Eliasson if we have Diedhiou up front.

As far as partnerships are concerned, if you're good enough then you should be able to play with anybody you're partnered with.

We never had a problem with Wilbs in that situation and I seem to recall how Peter Beadle used to play well with whoever he was partnered with.

 

I think there is another issue here in that we are moving up to the next level with recruiting better players and our forward line is just not up to the mark.  

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Saw this on Twitter - Famara taking the time to chat to a Big Issue seller and then gave her a sizeable amount of money apparently. If that's how it transpired - what a nice thing to do. So many footballers make a big show of charity, but the small unnoticed gestures (where they don't realise they're being photographed) are more significant for me.

https://twitter.com/BcfcPezza/status/1186942996547342337?s=20

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1 hour ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Saw this on Twitter - Famara taking the time to chat to a Big Issue seller and then gave her a sizeable amount of money apparently. If that's how it transpired - what a nice thing to do. So many footballers make a big show of charity, but the small unnoticed gestures (where they don't realise they're being photographed) are more significant for me.

https://twitter.com/BcfcPezza/status/1186942996547342337?s=20

One of the good ones isn't he.

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On 21/10/2019 at 23:12, dave36 said:

Palmer, yes a player who, once signed,  with preparation and improved fitness would be the Messiah, not happening though!

Almost every time he tries his fancy footwork the opposing player stands off and robs him when he breaks.

too slow and inconsistent no end effect too often.

Elliasson, impact yes but he is able to disrupt defences and we don’t have another player that can do that and provide the killer pass, so why are we having to wait until the game is gone before he gets his chance?  It’s crazy football when we play a lumbering 9 with no proper support! Luton we took that 9 off when we introduced that supporting  player, sorry but that’s a coach running out of ideas.

I love Elliasson - his crossing can be sublime, and certainly if he's on it no amount of defenders are going to get in the way. From what Spud has said few chances are created from crossing, but maybe with the new goal-poaching striker in we'll have a combination that pops a few goals in from them.

Anyway at time of writing all I've heard is that Moore starts and Baker is benched. I've no idea what the front of the team is looking like. I'm off out the door now. #COYR

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