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What sort of abuse is this?


BigAl&Toby

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So we sit behind the goal. We enjoy the view, being close to whatever action we get to see and to - let’s say at this stage - engage with the players - particularly the keeper.

Now last home game and at the start of the second half Mr Cabral takes his position on the line.

As many do he points to the sky. 
 

Someone shouts out. “There’s no-one there. He doesn’t exist. We’ve all evolved from monkeys”.

At which point, like Mr Benn, a steward appears from nowhere. He who shall remain nameless is told to stop shouting out and - I can’t recall the word used now - to stop being abusive. 

Others who have had similar “shout outs” have simply turned and laughed. Or waved. Or engaged in similar inter-actions. On this occasion the linesman when checking the net actually turned and laughed!

Be interested to hear views. What is abuse? When is it ever acceptable?
 

 

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54 minutes ago, CyderInACan said:

It's pretty factual if you ask me. Perhaps the steward simply took umbrage at hearing the truth?  Or at the aspersion that the mythical creator is apparently male?

Quite. That was my thinking. But then again when asked the steward said it was offensive to the keepers religion.....

Then again another steward took umbrage when said supporter shouted out to Keogh “Keogh you inbred. Breathe through your nose”.

Apparently inbred is offensive. Not here in Frome it’s not ?

My point? What a minefield..... When did what some might consider “banter” become something so offensive?

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I'm not a believer but I have no problem with people who have deeply held beliefs that do not accord with my own views. I'm unlikely to get involved in any banter or whatever with anyone about it mind. Each to their own. It's like putting Clotted Cream on your Scone before the Jam. I say that's thoroughly right & proper yet some will swear blind the the Jam goes on first.

As I said, each to their own, eh . . . 

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1 hour ago, BigAl&Toby said:

So we sit behind the goal. We enjoy the view, being close to whatever action we get to see and to - let’s say at this stage - engage with the players - particularly the keeper.

Now last home game and at the start of the second half Mr Cabral takes his position on the line.

As many do he points to the sky. 
 

Someone shouts out. “There’s no-one there. He doesn’t exist. We’ve all evolved from monkeys”.

At which point, like Mr Benn, a steward appears from nowhere. He who shall remain nameless is told to stop shouting out and - I can’t recall the word used now - to stop being abusive. 

Others who have had similar “shout outs” have simply turned and laughed. Or waved. Or engaged in similar inter-actions. On this occasion the linesman when checking the net actually turned and laughed!

Be interested to hear views. What is abuse? When is it ever acceptable?
 

 

Without going into other hot topics at the moment, I am guessing the steward would have to be pretty close to clearly hear what was said?

Maybe only partly heard what was said and reached the wrong conclusion?

Or the other aspect is the steward is a deeply religious person and too offence?

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The slightly ironic part of the OP is that Yeovil (if they win) have drawn Hartlepool. They are nicknamed the “Monkey Hangers”, their mascot called Hangus. Named as such because a monkey washed up ashore many moons ago, was assumed to be French...and hanged!!!

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7 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

The slightly ironic part of the OP is that Yeovil (if they win) have drawn Hartlepool. They are nicknamed the “Monkey Hangers”, their mascot called Hangus. Named as such because a monkey washed up ashore many moons ago, was assumed to be French...and hanged!!!

I love that story! (not that I advocate the murder of defenceless animals, even if they are French spies. And especially not children, again, French or otherwise) *

https://www.historic-uk.com/HistoryUK/HistoryofEngland/The-Hanging-of-the-Hartlepool-Monkey/

*covering my bases there 

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13 minutes ago, phantom said:

Without going into other hot topics at the moment, I am guessing the steward would have to be pretty close to clearly hear what was said?

Maybe only partly heard what was said and reached the wrong conclusion?

Or the other aspect is the steward is a deeply religious person and too offence?

Was my initial conclusion too. And that could have been considered offensive and racist. 

Thing is that’s not what the steward said. When asked after the game he said what was said was offensive to the keeper’s religion.

Yet the only obvious reaction at the time the comment was hollered was from the linesman. Who looked up and laughed.....

Some things are clearly offensive and said in a way and using language that sets out to offend.

Some things are said so as to unsettle and have a laugh. 

Common sense differentiates the two to my mind. 

The only person I’d have thought would have been offended by this exchange would have been Charles Darwin himself...

What do you mean steward my good man? Are you saying my theory is bollocks? 

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46 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

The slightly ironic part of the OP is that Yeovil (if they win) have drawn Hartlepool. They are nicknamed the “Monkey Hangers”, their mascot called Hangus. Named as such because a monkey washed up ashore many moons ago, was assumed to be French...and hanged!!!

You omitted the most important part of the story, Davefevs, yes they assumed the monkey to be a French spy and he was hanged, however he was prior to that given the option of managing Hartlepool United. He declined. This is where the saying "Wise Monkey" originates from.

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59 minutes ago, CyderInACan said:

I'm not a believer but I have no problem with people who have deeply held beliefs that do not accord with my own views. I'm unlikely to get involved in any banter or whatever with anyone about it mind. Each to their own. It's like putting Clotted Cream on your Scone before the Jam. I say that's thoroughly right & proper yet some will swear blind the the Jam goes on first.

As I said, each to their own, eh . . . 

I like to think of myself as a reasonably tolerant person. But anyone putting jam on first deserves some heinous punishment. 

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1 hour ago, CyderInACan said:

I'm not a believer but I have no problem with people who have deeply held beliefs that do not accord with my own views. I'm unlikely to get involved in any banter or whatever with anyone about it mind. Each to their own. It's like putting Clotted Cream on your Scone before the Jam. I say that's thoroughly right & proper yet some will swear blind the the Jam goes on first.

As I said, each to their own, eh . . . 

If you're in Cornwall its cream first, and Devon its jam first. They get quite funny about it. Me ? I just get offended.

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Who can say he was pointing to a deity?

Perhaps the keeper is a bit of an ornitholigist and saw a rare bird. Or perhaps he's a bit of a physics fan and saw an unusually shaped cirrus cloud. 

My point is, someone pointing to the sky for whatever reason, has absolutely zero effect on you and I. So why shout a response?

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55 minutes ago, BigAl&Toby said:

Was my initial conclusion too. And that could have been considered offensive and racist. 

Thing is that’s not what the steward said. When asked after the game he said what was said was offensive to the keeper’s religion.

Yet the only obvious reaction at the time the comment was hollered was from the linesman. Who looked up and laughed.....

Some things are clearly offensive and said in a way and using language that sets out to offend.

Some things are said so as to unsettle and have a laugh. 

Common sense differentiates the two to my mind. 

The only person I’d have thought would have been offended by this exchange would have been Charles Darwin himself...

What do you mean steward my good man? Are you saying my theory is bollocks? 

So what if you were offensive to his religion? He could've just asked his imaginary friend to have forgiven you!

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8 minutes ago, Septic Peg said:

Who can say he was pointing to a deity?

Perhaps the keeper is a bit of an ornitholigist and saw a rare bird. Or perhaps he's a bit of a physics fan and saw an unusually shaped cirrus cloud. 

My point is, someone pointing to the sky for whatever reason, has absolutely zero effect on you and I. So why shout a response?

Same reason we shout anything I guess?

Same reason we shout “mind my face” during the run up for a penalty.

Same reason we shout “he wants 12” when the keepers trying to arrange his wall.

Same reason we shout out “he doesn’t trust you” when the full back who sliced his pass last time wants it from the keeper the next time.

Same reason we shouted out to Grealish “pull your socks up” - in that instance he looked at us, smiled and did it.

It’s what we do. A lot of the collective us. Why do we do it? Why does anyone do what they do?

But that’s not the point really. My point was about the irony.

Of the person who had “the abuse” directed at him who chose to ignore - and probably thought “what an asshole” ?About the steward who took it upon himself to get involved. About the match official who laughed.

Compare that to the disgraceful scenes in Bulgaria. Tyrone Mings has enough. He brings it to the attention of a match official. The game is stopped.

Where does it end and where does it start?  Or are we now all expected to sit in silence. 
 

Whether we’re praising our Lord, twitching about birds, watching cloud formations or watching football?

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My favourite interaction I saw with a keeper was at Bramall Lane in 2008, when Paddy Kenny came out for the second half. 

Someone a few rows back was tucking into a picnic and shouted at Kenny “oi fatty, want a pork pie?”

He smiled and said “yeah go on then!” and then ate the one they chucked him!

Good sense of humour goes a long way :) 

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2 hours ago, CyderInACan said:

I'm not a believer but I have no problem with people who have deeply held beliefs that do not accord with my own views. I'm unlikely to get involved in any banter or whatever with anyone about it mind. Each to their own. It's like putting Clotted Cream on your Scone before the Jam. I say that's thoroughly right & proper yet some will swear blind the the Jam goes on first.

As I said, each to their own, eh . . . 

You pronounce it scone not scone... 

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15 minutes ago, BigAl&Toby said:

Same reason we shout anything I guess?

Same reason we shout “mind my face” during the run up for a penalty.

Same reason we shout “he wants 12” when the keepers trying to arrange his wall.

Same reason we shout out “he doesn’t trust you” when the full back who sliced his pass last time wants it from the keeper the next time.

Same reason we shouted out to Grealish “pull your socks up” - in that instance he looked at us, smiled and did it.

It’s what we do. A lot of the collective us. Why do we do it? Why does anyone do what they do?

But that’s not the point really. My point was about the irony.

Of the person who had “the abuse” directed at him who chose to ignore - and probably thought “what an asshole” ?About the steward who took it upon himself to get involved. About the match official who laughed.

Compare that to the disgraceful scenes in Bulgaria. Tyrone Mings has enough. He brings it to the attention of a match official. The game is stopped.

Where does it end and where does it start?  Or are we now all expected to sit in silence. 
 

Whether we’re praising our Lord, twitching about birds, watching cloud formations or watching football?

Sh*tting on someone's religion seems like a bad thing to do, no? I don't know how a linesman getting a laugh from it makes it clearly fine and dandy. And a steward choosing to say, 'Maybe don't, mate,' hardly seems unreasonable.

Your comparison to calling out to players for them to miss a shot or for having their socks a bit low is weak. Surely you felt that writing them out?

"Are we now all expected to sit in silence" -- you don't see a huge gaping space between sh*tting on someone's religion and being banned from saying anything?

I don't think the right to shout distasteful sh*t needs defending. Hardly what makes a good atmosphere.

"Where does it end and where does it start?" Seems like you're asking for something you don't want -- some sort of handy guide that polices what is and what isn't acceptable banter? Doesn't it just take some common sense and a bit of thought? And, if you disagree with someone's opinion of, 'Maybe don't,' -- what are you even losing there? Why do you need to fight that? Just find a player who's tucked his shirt in a bit funny if you really need to heckle.

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You wouldn’t go into a Church or Mosque when people are praying and shout about how God doesn’t exist. Not sure why if someone is praying before a football match should be treated any differently.

You see Salah praying on the halfway line before a game. If an opposition player got up in his face, interrupting him and moving his hands about, would that be acceptable?

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2 hours ago, myol'man said:

circa 1978 ish, First Division match vs can't remember;

well known East End character whom we shall call 'Bert', got ejected from the ground for shouting "Poisonous Sponge" at the opposition keeper ?

This keeper - called Bob?

spongebob.jpg.edbbbf7c9a021de970249bb1b97e2104.jpg

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3 hours ago, redsince1994 said:

I like to think of myself as a reasonably tolerant person. But anyone putting jam on first deserves some heinous punishment. 

Cut the scone or scone in half horizontally, but jam on one half and cream on the other, or the other way round, reassemble the said scone or scone with either jam or butter uppermost,  then eat. Simps. Enjoy.

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