Mo Eisa - the clinical striker we are missing?

[BRISTOL86]

32 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

He wasn't given a proper chance, B86.

We know he can find the back of the net. Defences are much weaker in L1 and L2, but the goal isn't any bigger.

If you're a natural goal poacher, you're worth more of a try than one late sub appearance.

I'm not saying Eisa "would have been" the answer. I'm just saying - given our paucity of strikers - it looks like a mistake to have released him.

Someone said he "looked lost" in his limited time on the pitch. Well compared to Semenyo's recent start he looked like Pele!

People who are, rightly, pointing out that Semenyo might learn and improve with age, do not seem to extend this courtesy to Eisa, another young player. 

 

I’m just saying if he was consistently poor in training it’s hardly going to translate into being given a run in the team. 

Personally I trust that LJ and the team saw enough to draw the conclusions they drew. Did they get it right?

Who knows, but they know infinitely more than any of us given that they take training every day. 

I suspect the fee we were offered was simply too good to turn down on a player that we had doubts about. 

[Red-Robbo]

5 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

I thought Eisa looked poor in every appearance. Semenyo at least has played well a couple of times. 

Seems to me loaning out Taylor may have been the mistake. Or just bringing in another striker. Hoping rodri is that striker.

I must've missed these impressive Semenyo appearances. It doesn't alter the fact that Mo Eisa was given substantially less chance to show what he can do.

5 minutes ago, BRISTOL86 said:

I’m just saying if he was consistently poor in training it’s hardly going to translate into being given a run in the team. 

Personally I trust that LJ and the team saw enough to draw the conclusions they drew. Did they get it right?

Who knows, but they know infinitely more than any of us given that they take training every day. 

I suspect the fee we were offered was simply too good to turn down on a player that we had doubts about. 

We thought we have Benik all season and that pushed Mo too far down the pecking order to justify keeping him. We were wrong on the first count. 

[1bristolcity]

12 hours ago, bcfcnick said:

Credit to Lee Johnson and Mark Ashton for a lot of the recent transfer dealings (including the loan signing of Afobe) but I feel they got this one badly wrong.  Mo Eisa is an instinctive and prolific goal scorer who averages about 1 in 2 at every level he has played at.  These type of natural goal scorers can usually replicate what they do right up to Championship and even Premier level as well.

Mo Eisa:-   10 goals, 1 assist , a goal every 104 mins on the pitch, 25 shots and 18 (72%) on target 

Our most successful striker Andi Weimann:- 4 goals, 2 assists, 21 shots and 6 (29%) on target

Weimann adds other positives to the front line and presses more but there is little doubt that we could have done with someone as clinical in front of goal as Mo Eisa. His transfer value must be a significant multiple to the circa £1m City got for him. 

It's an odd one that he was offloaded especially as the number one target was Nketiah who is similar in the sense that he has that natural striker instinctive right place at the right time eye for goal.  Obviously Nketiah has had a more traditional route through at a high level but Eisa was our own player and was 'owned' at a fraction of a cost of the potential striker loan fees. 

I believe, given game time, he would be towards the top of the championship goals stats and be the much needed player that converts  a higher % of the chances that we create. 

 

 

From the off I thought Mo was a good prospect, I have seen him a few times before his move here, there was enough to show then and should have been enough when we had him. Very poor business by the Club to let him go, and to depend on the summer window  given who we are, we were never going to get a big name here. Afobe was a stroke of luck, and then terrible misfortune, but it does seem we need to sharpen things up as far with these sort of dealings. 

The OP got it right Mo was our player, young goal scorer, what on Earth was the thinking? 

[wayne allisons tongues]

Didn’t we sell Eisa end of May start of June same time as Kelly. Maybe it was to meet FFP rules or give us that bit of breathing space regards FFP. 
 

To me it seemed an unusual time to sell him, didn’t even get the chance to impress pre season.

[BRISTOL86]

8 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

I must've missed these impressive Semenyo appearances. It doesn't alter the fact that Mo Eisa was given substantially less chance to show what he can do.

We thought we have Benik all season and that pushed Mo too far down the pecking order to justify keeping him. We were wrong on the first count. 

Am I missing something? Eisa left long before Afobe was even a thought didn’t he? 

[The Journalist]

I always find it strange the anger and frustration some fans feel when players aren't given much of a run in the team.

Mo Eisa, like Gustav Engval, was a player Lee Johnson signed. I'm sure he was absolutely desperate for him to do well, encouraged and cajoled him and gave him every chance in training to shine. Sometimes it just doesn't work out.

[Xiled]

20 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

We thought we have Benik all season and that pushed Mo too far down the pecking order to justify keeping him. We were wrong on the first count. 

But not at the time when the decision was made. Recovering the money spent on Eisa would be a tempting scenario for a player who barely featured during last season and was ineffective when he did play.

There's an argument that Afobe might have been seen as a risk (with his previous injury record) but we gambled on Webster when his injury record was equally patchy at Ipswich.

It's clear from everything in the "public record" that Eddie Nketiah was our no. 1 striker target in the summer. Afobe was a late loan (8th August) over two months after the decision to sell Eisa (1 June).

I fully accept that our striker situation is weak and Mo Eisa might yet prove to be a cheap sale. But in the known chronology of events, I don't think it's fair to blame the club for mistakes. Hindsight can make anyone look wise.

[Red-Robbo]

9 minutes ago, BRISTOL86 said:

Am I missing something? Eisa left long before Afobe was even a thought didn’t he? 

What I meant was negotiations for a "name" striker would have pushed Eisa down the list. Yet until we got Rodri our striker cupboard was looking bare.

[Red-Robbo]

3 minutes ago, Xiled said:

But not at the time when the decision was made.

I know. I'm not slating the club. Just saying it would've been good to have had an extra club in the bag at a time when we were short of forward cover.

[Major Isewater]

51 minutes ago, Rob k said:

This has always been what I’ve said - they have an eye for a striker do Peterborough, i can’t imagine we needed a million that badly so we will see in a couple of seasons weather we were premature with letting him go 

How about the club being fair to the player knowing that he’d be low down the pecking order for game time.

His brief time at City can’t have been described as a success either for him or the club so it was a good idea to let him move on , recover our outlay and let  Posh develop our sell on fee nicely.

 

[Xiled]

6 minutes ago, Major Isewater said:

How about the club being fair to the player knowing that he’d be low down the pecking order for game time.

His brief time at City can’t have been described as a success either for him or the club so it was a good idea to let him move on , recover our outlay and let  Posh develop our sell on fee nicely.

Football is a merciless business and there's little worse than seeing a young player rot in the reserves of any team. I would rather see Eisa succeed at Peterborough than think Bristol City had inadvertently damaged the career of a promising young striker.

[BobBobSuperBob]

37 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

I thought Eisa looked poor in every appearance. Semenyo at least has played well a couple of times. 

Seems to me loaning out Taylor may have been the mistake. Or just bringing in another striker. Hoping rodri is that striker.

Wow

In what was it - a grand total of 18 ? Minutes 

[Red-Robbo]

7 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Wow

In what was it - a grand total of 18 ? Minutes 

I looked it up, Bob. He got 25 minutes in 5 league games, three of which he came on in the 89th minute.

He started a league cup game in which the entire team looked dire.

 

[maxjak]

Mmmmmmmmm!  Now let  me ponder this?   Who do I trust?  A coaching staff of experienced former relatively high end players who saw Eisa in training every day,  in and out for 12 months?  Or OTIB contributers who occasionally saw him appear for brief periods in the first team, and believe because he has started to score goals in a Division, in which Fam would be scoring for fun, would suddenly become the New Bob Taylor ?   People need to move on, there are numerous examples of strikers who were unable to make the step up.  Mo Eisa is a competent Division 1 striker who will score goals regularly in that level of football where defenders afford space and make mistakes............the Championship is a whole different world, full of near Premiership quality footballers who know how to defend, and in which chances for strikers tend to be few and far between.   Good Luck Mo. I wish you well, but you are not good enough to play at Championship level. IMHO

[ashton_fan]

Eisa was in the same bracket as Adelakun (who we still have), young player who had success in the lower leagues. Unfortunately neither has impressed when selected for the first team, the better players make an immediate impression (eg Massengo). Championship football shows up weaknesses in players, if they're not good enough someone else will get the shirt next time it's a cutthroat business

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Red-Robbo said:

I must've missed these impressive Semenyo appearances. It doesn't alter the fact that Mo Eisa was given substantially less chance to show what he can do.

We thought we have Benik all season and that pushed Mo too far down the pecking order to justify keeping him. We were wrong on the first count. 

Semenyo was outstanding away at Preston last season. Players bouncing off of him. One amazingly powerful shot with his weaker foot and he generally helped change the game.

Thought he was looking really good in the recent Preston game too before being subbed. Apparently played decent away at QPR, though I didn't see that one. And even Brentford away game he was decent at times, held it up well and helped in creating the Palmer one on one first half. He looked more suited to Weimann than Diedhiou imo in his style of play. Maybe not ready to be trusted yet. He's 19 and so far shown fantastic potential. Being a youth player allows him to be on the bench as our 7th sub.

Going back to Eisa. LJ rated Taylor much more and we have loaned him out. So I don't get why he would want to keep Eisa. If he looks awful in training, not up to the standard, then how can LJ pick him? He looked so poor in that Plymouth game and as lost as Semenyo did recently when coming off the bench. 

But with Semenyo we can already see the attributes he has, what he can do. And is so much younger with so many years ahead of him.

Mo is still fairly young at 25. But if his touch is not that good, if he is a bit lightweight at this level, and if he isn't the best at linking up or any other general things strikers need to do, then he isn't going to magically turn up on matchday a be strong, quicker, technically much better than what he is in training.

If anything wouldn't it be even harder when taking on players pumped up for it with the pressure of the crowd etc. Matches are surely a lot harder to impress than in training. Performing in training should be essential in getting game time.

I expect what I saw of him is what LJ saw every day in training.

 

[Red-Robbo]

17 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

 

Mo is still fairly young at 25. But if his touch is not that good, if he is a bit lightweight at this level, and if he isn't the best at linking up or any other general things strikers need to do, then he isn't going to magically turn up on matchday a be strong, quicker, technically much better than what he is in training.

 

 

 

He's scored 10 goals already, suggesting that his touch is OK and - as L1 defenders are often big, brawny lumps - I don't think there's a problem with his strength.

Maybe he wouldn't have ever been "a solution" as the OP suggests, but we're judging Eisa on two league appearances of just 22 minutes (his other three subs were last seconds of the game time-wasters).  By contrast, this season Semenyo's played 213 minutes of league football for us in 6 games, but with no end product.

I'm not writing Semenyo off, merely suggesting that maybe we did too quickly with Eisa: particularly considering that one injury meant we were looking short of options up front.

[Eddie Notgetinya]

We ripped league one apart in a 3-5-2, couldn’t buy a win in the championship. The gap in class is massive. Trust the clubs decision and move on 

[Natchfever]

52 minutes ago, maxjak said:

Mmmmmmmmm!  Now let  me ponder this?   Who do I trust?  A coaching staff of experienced former relatively high end players who saw Eisa in training every day,  in and out for 12 months?  Or OTIB contributers who occasionally saw him appear for brief periods in the first team, and believe because he has started to score goals in a Division, in which Fam would be scoring for fun, would suddenly become the New Bob Taylor ?   People need to move on, there are numerous examples of strikers who were unable to make the step up.  Mo Eisa is a competent Division 1 striker who will score goals regularly in that level of football where defenders afford space and make mistakes............the Championship is a whole different world, full of near Premiership quality footballers who know how to defend, and in which chances for strikers tend to be few and far between.   Good Luck Mo. I wish you well, but you are not good enough to play at Championship level. IMHO

So do fans therefore accept everything this coaching staff apparently experienced and of high end playing calibre come up with ? Shut the forum then if their judgement can't occasionally be questioned..

Apply your same point to why LJ sets the team up sometimes in bizarre ways or makes untimely or odd substitutions and then comes up with utter tosh as to why he did it -but of course  he sees players in training we only see them matchday

Just remember that this same coaching team would have been involved in Eisa's recruitment (at relatively high cost) but that's ok because clearly they saw a footballer in there but couldn't get him to perform at expected levels once they got hold of him. Lets ponder on that for a moment.

If Afode stayed fit then we wouldn't be having this conversation but 2 previous ACL's is an accident waiting to happen. Therefore, considering how impotent we appear to be at present, I agree with those who say it was an error to offload him when we did.

The fact he played it appears 25 minutes of Champ football sually as a last minute sub doesn't with respect enable fans to make a decision about his capabilities at this level either way.

We don't make so many errors as we used to in the market, so I genuinely hope you and LJ are right about Eisa.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Red-Robbo said:

 

He's scored 10 goals already, suggesting that his touch is OK and - as L1 defenders are often big, brawny lumps - I don't think there's a problem with his strength.

Maybe he wouldn't have ever been "a solution" as the OP suggests, but we're judging Eisa on two league appearances of just 22 minutes (his other three subs were last seconds of the game time-wasters).  By contrast, this season Semenyo's played 213 minutes of league football for us in 6 games, but with no end product.

I'm not writing him off, merely suggesting that maybe we did too quickly with Eisa: particularly considering that one injury meant we were looking short of options up front.

He might be strong enough and touch might be good enough for league one. But not for championship according to LJ.

Maybe he will improve a lot and be a late developer. I guess we have to take chances and predict how far he will go and LJ must feel he won't ever make it to the standard we want, which is very high now.

[BRISTOL86]

16 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

 

He's scored 10 goals already, suggesting that his touch is OK and - as L1 defenders are often big, brawny lumps - I don't think there's a problem with his strength.

Maybe he wouldn't have ever been "a solution" as the OP suggests, but we're judging Eisa on two league appearances of just 22 minutes (his other three subs were last seconds of the game time-wasters).  By contrast, this season Semenyo's played 213 minutes of league football for us in 6 games, but with no end product.

I'm not writing Semenyo off, merely suggesting that maybe we did too quickly with Eisa: particularly considering that one injury meant we were looking short of options up front.

Fair points. But we’re realistically only having the discussion because of Afobe’s injury. Best laid plans and all that! 

[Mr Popodopolous]

13 minutes ago, NorwichbasedWurzel said:

We ripped league one apart in a 3-5-2, couldn’t buy a win in the championship. The gap in class is massive. Trust the clubs decision and move on 

It's not an exact science though is it?

Look at Sheffield United- look at Bournemouth. Look at teams albeit ones with more history of top flight or yoyoing who have gone up 2 divisions in a row from 3rd tier to PL.

Sheffield United's team that beat Arsenal:

1. O'Connell
2. Basham
3. Fleck

All played for them or joined them in League One! Lundstram only played 10 Championship games for them last season yet is playing regularly in PL. Granted Sharp is experienced and played at a variety of levels, and didn't start that one. Stevens until he joined them had played as per Wiki a mere 20 games above League One so hardly vastly experienced- Baldock not many more.

Certainly think our side, our squad should have done somewhat better than they did on the step up- surprisingly weak performance all told, and a number have gone on to perform well elsewhere, yet was our side at the start of 2015/16 really so inferior to Sheffield United's players that did so well on their step up?

[maxjak]

14 minutes ago, Loon plage said:

So do fans therefore accept everything this coaching staff apparently experienced and of high end playing calibre come up with ? Shut the forum then if their judgement can't occasionally be questioned..

Apply your same point to why LJ sets the team up sometimes in bizarre ways or makes untimely or odd substitutions and then comes up with utter tosh as to why he did it -but of course  he sees players in training we only see them matchday

Just remember that this same coaching team would have been involved in Eisa's recruitment (at relatively high cost) but that's ok because clearly they saw a footballer in there but couldn't get him to perform at expected levels once they got hold of him. Lets ponder on that for a moment.

If Afode stayed fit then we wouldn't be having this conversation but 2 previous ACL's is an accident waiting to happen. Therefore, considering how impotent we appear to be at present, I agree with those who say it was an error to offload him when we did.

The fact he played it appears 25 minutes of Champ football sually as a last minute sub doesn't with respect enable fans to make a decision about his capabilities at this level either way.

We don't make so many errors as we used to in the market, so I genuinely hope you and LJ are right about Eisa.

You are entitled, on a forum to your point pf view.  I happen to disagree with you, and prefer to trust in the professional opinion of people who are paid to make important decisions, because of their knowledge and experience.  If I was given a year in a new job, and proved to be not up to it, then I can hardly complain that i wasn't given a chance?   The coaches who gave Eisa an opportunity....also gave Massengo, Kalas, Taylor Moore, Dasilva, Palmer, Nagy and Bentley opportunities?  I guess you can't get it right everytime?

[Davefevs]

18 hours ago, bcfcnick said:

Credit to Lee Johnson and Mark Ashton for a lot of the recent transfer dealings (including the loan signing of Afobe) but I feel they got this one badly wrong.  Mo Eisa is an instinctive and prolific goal scorer who averages about 1 in 2 at every level he has played at.  These type of natural goal scorers can usually replicate what they do right up to Championship and even Premier level as well.

Mo Eisa:-   10 goals, 1 assist , a goal every 104 mins on the pitch, 25 shots and 18 (72%) on target 

Our most successful striker Andi Weimann:- 4 goals, 2 assists, 21 shots and 6 (29%) on target

Weimann adds other positives to the front line and presses more but there is little doubt that we could have done with someone as clinical in front of goal as Mo Eisa. His transfer value must be a significant multiple to the circa £1m City got for him. 

It's an odd one that he was offloaded especially as the number one target was Nketiah who is similar in the sense that he has that natural striker instinctive right place at the right time eye for goal.  Obviously Nketiah has had a more traditional route through at a high level but Eisa was our own player and was 'owned' at a fraction of a cost of the potential striker loan fees. 

I believe, given game time, he would be towards the top of the championship goals stats and be the much needed player that converts  a higher % of the chances that we create. 

 

 

It’s interesting how stats can be used and I’m not having a go at you, because I think there is good and bad in the stats we see above.

4 goals from 12 games - extrapolates out at 15 in a season.  I think most of us would be pretty happy with that.  He’s not meant to be an out and out goalscorer in our system, Afobe was our 20+ man....and now we don’t have him.  I wouldn’t say Weimann is used as an out and out striker either, but I think if you played him up top every game he would get you those 15 goals.  Fam probably would do too, but we have different expectations of what we want them to contribute in their given roles.  Would 30 between them be good enough?  Depends where the rest of the goals come from too!

2 assists, would give you 8 assists over a season.  Not bad either.

Shots on target at 29% looks poor.  It probably is.  But how easy were those 21 chances.  According to Wyscout, from those chances he should’ve scored 3.12 goals, suggesting his chances have been tough, yet he’s achieved more (4 goals).

 

Re Eisa and Woodrow....neither were given a proper chance.  We can only speculate why they didn’t.

 

[Silvio Dante]

What I find interesting is this:

Last season, the most common comment on any thread about Eisa was that there had to have been some skullduggery with city paying over the odds for him to do GJ a favour. People saying he was a genuine top end championship striker (which is what we want) were few and far between to non existent

Now, we’ve sold him for a profit and he’s banging them in at L1. Fair play to him - but where were these people defending him as a potential champ level striker last year when a common narrative developed?

I’ll stick with my position. He was a punt. £1m- £1.5m at this level, like Moore, like Watkins, is a punt. I didn’t see anything in his (admittedly limited) game time that suggested he could make the step up - which I saw with Moore. He wasn’t going to be in the 18 this year barring what we’ve had - a really unfortunate injury run. But if we didn’t sell him this summer, he had no value at his age and what would be two years sans football.

Also agree that the L1-Champ gap is a huge gulf, so form at that level comes with no guarantees.

In short - right decision to buy, right decision to sell. Astounded if no sell on just because of how we work but ask yourself this - if the window was open and we signed Eisa to replace Afobe, how many would think it was a great move and how many would worry about an unproven at this level player...?

[bcfcnick]

Yes, agreed , Weimann isn't a like for like comparison by any means beyond being the top scorer for us this season.

I think a more accurate comparison is the Nketiah category of player. LJ was desperate to get him for his goals as he is an instinctive goal scorer.   Leeds haven't played Nketiah from the start because Bielsa wants a player who leads the line with more strength from Bamford.  Lee Johnson likes his 'busy bees' up front and I don't think Mo Eisa comes into that category just as Leeds have kept Nketiah on the bench in favour of a more physical presence.

There are players who will score at any level.  I remember from years ago a prolific footballer called Derek Hales.  Aside from scoring (and he got an England cap I think) he was a poor footballer but a prolific goal scorer who was born with that natural instinct for being in the right place at the right time to put the ball in the net.  Again the only comparison is the 'natural goal-scorer' tag because I think Mo Eisa looks a decent footballer.  

Anyway, I think Mo will get his chance in the Championship and I am sure he will continue to score plenty of goals.   It's only then that the question will be answered. Even then players have to be played in the right position.  Swansea got the best out of the free spirited Lee Trundle but Gary Johnson tried to put him out wide and we only saw glimpses of his brilliance and goal scoring ability.

[Guest]

Just scored injury time equaliser. Is that 11 now for him? 

Hopefully we get a good sell on for him.

[77 punk]

he looks very competent at that level i wish we kept him and put him on the bench i think he is so much better than semenyo

[Shtanley]

If Afobe hadn't got injured this thread and talking point would likely not exist.

[Davefevs]

On 23/10/2019 at 18:44, Silvio Dante said:

What I find interesting is this:

Last season, the most common comment on any thread about Eisa was that there had to have been some skullduggery with city paying over the odds for him to do GJ a favour. People saying he was a genuine top end championship striker (which is what we want) were few and far between to non existent

Now, we’ve sold him for a profit and he’s banging them in at L1. Fair play to him - but where were these people defending him as a potential champ level striker last year when a common narrative developed?

I’ll stick with my position. He was a punt. £1m- £1.5m at this level, like Moore, like Watkins, is a punt. I didn’t see anything in his (admittedly limited) game time that suggested he could make the step up - which I saw with Moore. He wasn’t going to be in the 18 this year barring what we’ve had - a really unfortunate injury run. But if we didn’t sell him this summer, he had no value at his age and what would be two years sans football.

Also agree that the L1-Champ gap is a huge gulf, so form at that level comes with no guarantees.

In short - right decision to buy, right decision to sell. Astounded if no sell on just because of how we work but ask yourself this - if the window was open and we signed Eisa to replace Afobe, how many would think it was a great move and how many would worry about an unproven at this level player...?

Although everything undisclosed, you can bet with Peterborough's record for producing / nurturing strikers, City will have a sell-on percentage.  Cheltenham have, so in our interests to have one, if only to cover what we might owe the other Robins in the future.

I'm not surprised he's scoring in Lg1.  He is a cool finisher...a placer, rather than a blaster, he's at a very attack minded Peterborough, he's got a big, athletic striker alongside him in Toney, and Lg1 defences are much more lapse than Champ defences.

He could score at Champ level, but I think LJ went into the season planning one up top, and I don't think that would've been the best utilisation of Eisa.

Glad he's doing well....partly because I have Peterborough at 12-1