Mo Eisa - the clinical striker we are missing?

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, 77 punk said:

he looks very competent at that level i wish we kept him and put him on the bench i think he is so much better than semenyo

LJ doesn't think so. Peterborough fans generally say Mo is lightweight, not very good touch and is not very good in the air. Obviously though he is superb at scoring goals at that level, with superb service of Maddison and Toney alongside him.

Ivan Toney is the striker id like here from Peterborough. He is much stronger, quicker, much better on the ball and works harder. And he looks a goalscorer too. 

Like some others have said above, at this level a striker needs much more than being a poacher with little else.

[Roe]

1 hour ago, Shtanley said:

If Afobe hadn't got injured this thread and talking point would likely not exist.

I dunno about that.  Regardless of how well we we're doing, it's still an interesting talking point whenever one of our former players is in good form.  It's even more interesting when it's a player that was given little chance in the first team

[forbespm]

4 hours ago, Shtanley said:

If Afobe hadn't got injured this thread and talking point would likely not exist.

It was discussed when he left for posh,before afobe in another thread and on facebook

[Shtanley]

8 minutes ago, forbespm said:

It was discussed when he left for posh,before afobe in another thread and on facebook

I think it's been exacerbated by the injury though don't you think? 

I reckon we'd be flying with Afobe still fit and Eisa would be at the back of our minds. 

We may regret it in some sense but I guess he was always going to leave anyway.

[pillred]

On ‎23‎/‎10‎/‎2019 at 15:59, maxjak said:

You are entitled, on a forum to your point pf view.  I happen to disagree with you, and prefer to trust in the professional opinion of people who are paid to make important decisions, because of their knowledge and experience.  If I was given a year in a new job, and proved to be not up to it, then I can hardly complain that i wasn't given a chance?   The coaches who gave Eisa an opportunity....also gave Massengo, Kalas, Taylor Moore, Dasilva, Palmer, Nagy and Bentley opportunities?  I guess you can't get it right everytime?

So are you admitting they may have got it wrong this time or not?

[RobintheRed Red]

On 22/10/2019 at 23:56, Mr Popodopolous said:

I've always thought that once you get up to this level you need a stronger all-round game- let alone above, but certainly this level.

Perhaps I'm wrong! Or maybe Eisa is just brilliant and excelling in League One, but not good enough that next step up- there is a definite gap between the 2, though it isn't unbridgeable either- both for teams and individuals. Higher you go, the more you need surely.

Do wonder though, had we loaned him to say a Charlton, a Portsmouth or perhaps a Sunderland last season- and he had been scoring well, whether he would have come back ready to hit the ground running at this level, confidence up- shown that he could do it. Especially Charlton though given that they were riding quite high and his links to Greenwich.

Well Rowe hasnt had a problem stepping up .

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, RobintheRed Red said:

Well Rowe hasnt had a problem stepping up .

Rowe has played over 100 games in the Championship....albeit earlier in his career.

[maxjak]

5 hours ago, pillred said:

So are you admitting they may have got it wrong this time or not?

I am saying that not every player signed by City, especially players from the lower leagues make it at this level.  Then they might need to move on.  Some are successful, like Rowe, some are not, like Eisa. But it would appear that they all get the chance to make an impression, if good enough, Eisa wasn't...........so he has dropped a level.  The true test will be if Peterboro get promoted, then he will get the opportunity to try again. But I trust our coaches opinion, so they got it right.

[Guest]

8 hours ago, RobintheRed Red said:

Well Rowe hasnt had a problem stepping up .

But Eisa did have a problem stepping up, - he wasn't good enough in training against championship players.  In LJs opinion he is worse than Matty Taylor.

People say we don't know how good he might have been, well we also don't know how crap he might have been!

[Mr Popodopolous]

10 hours ago, RobintheRed Red said:

Well Rowe hasnt had a problem stepping up .

Very true.

It's an inexact science, isn't it. Why for example did we flounder under Cotts but Sheffield United under Wilder, a side with big similarities us under Cotts, do so well?

Fair to say Eisa didn't get a proper chance though. Plus not loaning him in January- same goes for Adelakun, either January or now- well IMO it hasn't done much for their development!

Could argue similar about recalling Semenyo from Newport but with Chelsea seemingly keen, we had to do something there. Time is on his side more though!

[Guest]

29 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Very true.

It's an inexact science, isn't it. Why for example did we flounder under Cotts but Sheffield United under Wilder, a side with big similarities us under Cotts, do so well?

Fair to say Eisa didn't get a proper chance though. Plus not loaning him in January- same goes for Adelakun, either January or now- well IMO it hasn't done much for their development!

Could argue similar about recalling Semenyo from Newport but with Chelsea seemingly keen, we had to do something there. Time is on his side more though!

Sheffield United have attacking centre backs that get covered well by their wing backs when they get forward. We were wide open and also we had Flint who was badly exposed on the break. Also not sure Ayling or Williams were ever good enough at this level at centre back.

So I guess it could be argued we had a very attacking side with 3 vulernable centre backs, and Little who was not championship quality, Bryan who isn't great defensively. Also we had Pack who could not get back when teams hit us on the break. It was a complete mess that first season in championship.

I think the Eisa thing is all to do with what he did in training. He looked poor when he had a few chances, and maybe LJ thought well how can I pick a player who is so poor on the training ground. He isn't going to magically be physically strong or quicker or technically better on match day.

Also apparently he wasn't putting the work in on the training ground and reading Peterborough fans comments, he doesn't always seem to be trying his hardest or put the work in that Toney does.

If Eisa is just a striker that is great in the box, then that is clearly not enough for what LJ wants for a striker. Even that poaching ability he may not have at championship level. LJ would surely know what he can and can't do at this level based on training.

[Davefevs]

18 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

Sheffield United have attacking centre backs that get covered well by their wing backs when they get forward. We were wide open and also we had Flint who was badly exposed on the break. Also not sure Ayling or Williams were ever good enough at this level at centre back.

Williams has become a Championship regular for Blackburn.  Don’t disagree about Ayling, but would’ve like to have seen his he did in a 4 at CB.  His positioning and cover was v.good (ignore the marauding forward, that’s very different).  But he is a v.good RB.  I think we missed experience...namely Wade Elliott.

So I guess it could be argued we had a very attacking side with 3 vulernable centre backs, and Little who was not championship quality, Bryan who isn't great defensively. Also we had Pack who could not get back when teams hit us on the break. It was a complete mess that first season in championship.

We did sign Fredericks, but agree with what you say.

I think the Eisa thing is all to do with what he did in training. He looked poor when he had a few chances, and maybe LJ thought well how can I pick a player who is so poor on the training ground. He isn't going to magically be physically strong or quicker or technically better on match day.

I don’t think the 3 month injury helped him at the start of the season.  He’d got a few minutes in those early games, and momentum (if he had any) was gone.  One up top didn’t help either.

Also apparently he wasn't putting the work in on the training ground and reading Peterborough fans comments, he doesn't always seem to be trying his hardest or put the work in that Toney does.
I’m never quite convinced by the “training ground” stories, he never struck me at CTFC as a Duracell bunny...but he can finish...given chances.  At Champ level, we don’t know.

If Eisa is just a striker that is great in the box, then that is clearly not enough for what LJ wants for a striker. Even that poaching ability he may not have at championship level. LJ would surely know what he can and can't do at this level based on training.

interesting, that given he signed him from his dad, he might not be aware of his capabilities or fit into our side.  I thought we paid a bit much (£1.5m), but appears it was £1.0, so about right.  We made a profit, and will undoubtedly have a sell-on...so not all bad.

 

[City oz]

32 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

Sheffield United have attacking centre backs that get covered well by their wing backs when they get forward. We were wide open and also we had Flint who was badly exposed on the break. Also not sure Ayling or Williams were ever good enough at this level at centre back.

So I guess it could be argued we had a very attacking side with 3 vulernable centre backs, and Little who was not championship quality, Bryan who isn't great defensively. Also we had Pack who could not get back when teams hit us on the break. It was a complete mess that first season in championship.

I think the Eisa thing is all to do with what he did in training. He looked poor when he had a few chances, and maybe LJ thought well how can I pick a player who is so poor on the training ground. He isn't going to magically be physically strong or quicker or technically better on match day.

Also apparently he wasn't putting the work in on the training ground and reading Peterborough fans comments, he doesn't always seem to be trying his hardest or put the work in that Toney does.

If Eisa is just a striker that is great in the box, then that is clearly not enough for what LJ wants for a striker. Even that poaching ability he may not have at championship level. LJ would surely know what he can and can't do at this level based on training.

JD, respect your comments and references to city players in training. Where you getting your info from ? Are you the lawn mower guy ?

[JBFC II]

We weren’t high scorers last season, and a top class goal scorer may have pushed us into the play offs. There has to be a reason that Eisa wasn’t given more game time, which makes me think he didn’t show enough in training and LJ didn’t see him as being ready for the championship, which at 24 doesn’t give him much time. 
 

Being a decent goal scorer at league one level means little really

[Davefevs]

2 minutes ago, City oz said:

JD, respect your comments and references to city players in training. Where you getting your info from ? Are you the lawn mower guy ?

JD you need a new avatar.

[Phileas Fogg]

Very easy to see letting him go as a mistake given the injury situation.

Personally I wanted to see what he could do with regular game time, but it's hard to turn down the money Peterborough offered.

There are so many players who seem excellent goalscorers at lower level but can't quite make the step up and score regularly at this level. Taylor is a good example of that. 

In hindsight, perhaps we should've loaned Semenyo out and kept Eisa.. but very easy to say that now. 

[City oz]

[Prinny]

1 minute ago, Phileas Fogg said:

In hindsight, perhaps we should've loaned Semenyo out and kept Eisa.. but very easy to say that now. 

This is the problem with this point of view. You can't directly compare them as Semenyo is our home grown player. We lose a sub if we don't have that home grown player and Semenyo is the closest one to genuinely make it into the 18. People saying they'd rather have Eisa now have to find the solution to the home grown player situation. You want to stop Morrell playing? Or O'Leary? Perhaps you want six subs? All to accommodate at best a fourth choice striker who didn't do enough in training for the same manager to pick him the previous season.

If Eisa and Semenyo were close in training in terms of effectiveness, then you go with the younger, home grown player to keep.

The intent this off season was clearly to sign a player like Eisa (Nketiah) who LJ thought was better. If there was a mistake it was selling Eisa before a replacement was confirmed. But since we signed Afobe, then it'd have still been the same situation. Eisa would have been 5th choice (6th behind Taylor) and nowhere near our team.

I believe the Peterborough chairman said they beat a championship team to sign Eisa. So not only have we missed out, so have 22 other teams missed out on this superstar striker who only cost just north of a million. Now it does happen, but not very often do so many teams get it so so wrong. Now I'm not going to slaughter LJ EVEN IF Eisa proves himself to be this great championship striker in the future. Because he watched him for a year of training, and decided based on that to move him on. Is Luke Ayling the one mistake we made in terms of letting a player go who has gone on to do better than our team has? (I'm not counting us selling to Prem teams for lots of money) Pretty good record if you ask me.

We've seen lots of smaller quick strikers who can finish flourish in league one and fail in the championship. He really has to do it at this level before I can consider this a mistake.

[Phileas Fogg]

16 minutes ago, Prinny said:

This is the problem with this point of view. You can't directly compare them as Semenyo is our home grown player. We lose a sub if we don't have that home grown player and Semenyo is the closest one to genuinely make it into the 18. People saying they'd rather have Eisa now have to find the solution to the home grown player situation. You want to stop Morrell playing? Or O'Leary? Perhaps you want six subs? All to accommodate at best a fourth choice striker who didn't do enough in training for the same manager to pick him the previous season.

Actually yep very good point. Didn't think of that at all. That might well explain it actually. 

16 minutes ago, Prinny said:

If Eisa and Semenyo were close in training in terms of effectiveness, then you go with the younger, home grown player to keep.

The intent this off season was clearly to sign a player like Eisa (Nketiah) who LJ thought was better. If there was a mistake it was selling Eisa before a replacement was confirmed. But since we signed Afobe, then it'd have still been the same situation. Eisa would have been 5th choice (6th behind Taylor) and nowhere near our team.

I believe the Peterborough chairman said they beat a championship team to sign Eisa. So not only have we missed out, so have 22 other teams missed out on this superstar striker who only cost just north of a million. Now it does happen, but not very often do so many teams get it so so wrong. Now I'm not going to slaughter LJ EVEN IF Eisa proves himself to be this great championship striker in the future. Because he watched him for a year of training, and decided based on that to move him on. Is Luke Ayling the one mistake we made in terms of letting a player go who has gone on to do better than our team has? (I'm not counting us selling to Prem teams for lots of money) Pretty good record if you ask me.

We've seen lots of smaller quick strikers who can finish flourish in league one and fail in the championship. He really has to do it at this level before I can consider this a mistake.

Very good points, agree with all of that. 

As I said, very easy to criticise the selling of Eisa in hindsight, but you can't account for season ending injuries and situations like Nketiah happening.

[RobintheRed Red]

4 hours ago, JonDolman said:

But Eisa did have a problem stepping up, - he wasn't good enough in training against championship players.  In LJs opinion he is worse than Matty Taylor.

People say we don't know how good he might have been, well we also don't know how crap he might have been!

We will never know he gave him four minutes at Bolton nearly scored last minute perhaps johnson didnt like his attitude but with the problems we had with injury an suspension he could have tried him the same as the striker he let go to Belguim .

[RobintheRed Red]

2 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Very true.

It's an inexact science, isn't it. Why for example did we flounder under Cotts but Sheffield United under Wilder, a side with big similarities us under Cotts, do so well?

Fair to say Eisa didn't get a proper chance though. Plus not loaning him in January- same goes for Adelakun, either January or now- well IMO it hasn't done much for their development!

Could argue similar about recalling Semenyo from Newport but with Chelsea seemingly keen, we had to do something there. Time is on his side more though!

Yes agree we have a lot rotting in the reserves Hadalukin Watkins he needs to get rid if he thinks they dont have a part to play watkins on a good wage.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Davefevs said:

 

I really don't think LJ wanted him Dave. He described it as 'a club signing'. He doesn't desribe any others in that way. 

It really could have been a case of bring him in and we make money on him no matter what..but of course if he can adapt to championship standard then great. We've gained financially so it is good business.

[Prinny]

51 minutes ago, RobintheRed Red said:

We will never know he gave him four minutes at Bolton nearly scored last minute perhaps johnson didnt like his attitude but with the problems we had with injury an suspension he could have tried him the same as the striker he let go to Belguim .

They both played around six games for us?

Gustav Engvall has a goal a game in the Belgian top flight. (2 in 2 according to google)

Is he the  clinical striker we've been missing?

[RobintheRed Red]

1 hour ago, Prinny said:

They both played around six games for us?

Gustav Engvall has a goal a game in the Belgian top flight. (2 in 2 according to google)

Is he the  clinical striker we've been missing?

Just saying we will never know with Afobe and Big Dave out think we are well light.

[Talk Of The Town]

What’s happened to the lad from Scunthorpe?

[Guest]

Peterborough fans had enough of him. Saying he is lazy, always offside. And saying he should be dropped.

 

[Roe]

5 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

Peterborough fans had enough of him. Saying he is lazy, always offside. And saying he should be dropped.

 

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Roe said:

My point is even a mid table league one set of fans don't think he should be in their team. So all those that said we should have kept him maybe wrong.

[HoldenBall]

2 hours ago, JonDolman said:

Peterborough fans had enough of him. Saying he is lazy, always offside. And saying he should be dropped.

 

Don't see his name on the score sheet much these days.

Do you know how many he's scored for the season now?

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Ron Swanson said:

Don't see his name on the score sheet much these days.

Do you know how many he's scored for the season now?

He's scored loads overall. But general play is poor. Their fans even said this when he was scoring. Basically good in the box at finishing at league one level and doesn't seem to have much else to his game.