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DavidNoble

When’s Nagy back fit?

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6 minutes ago, DT The Optimist said:

LJ  said on Saturday he had a steroid injection and at LEAST another 10 days

Bummer. Think Massengo could do with a rest. Relying on him heavily and really dont want him to burn out or pick up an injury. 

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Massengo definitely needs protecting, there’s no way they expected him to be playing so much already at his age. Someone on another thread suggested Nagy needs another operation?? Pretty devastating if true. Injuries might just scupper this season for us.  

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Wouldn’t surprise me if Callum plays LB on Sunday and Rowe moves into CM.

Just take him out of the firing line...especially against a physical Wigan.  Started 10 games on the spin, as well as French u19 games too.  The Champ is tough.  He’s set a high bar so far....players in their early 20s are inconsistent, let alone an 18 year old, in a new country.

Not trying to give him excuses, just think he needs carefully managing, even if it needs a bit of a tactical change to rest him, whilst Nagy isn’t quite fit.

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7 minutes ago, TinMan's left peg said:

Massengo definitely needs protecting, there’s no way they expected him to be playing so much already at his age. Someone on another thread suggested Nagy needs another operation?? Pretty devastating if true. Injuries might just scupper this season for us.  

That’s news, have not heard that one, may well be fake news.  From a knock in August to almost November and still out, bear in mind the Hungary business, is concerning but no hint of an Op from LJ when asked about his return 

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2 minutes ago, ark_at_ee_mind said:

Is Korey closer to a return to the first team than Nagy?

He said earlier he was glad to be running outside now but hasn't even joined in with training yet so he's miles off by the sounds of it. :(

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5 minutes ago, ark_at_ee_mind said:

Is Korey closer to a return to the first team than Nagy?

"Before Christmas" Korey said a week or two back. Surely Nagy will be back before December time.

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14 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Wouldn’t surprise me if Callum plays LB on Sunday and Rowe moves into CM.

Just take him out of the firing line...especially against a physical Wigan.  Started 10 games on the spin, as well as French u19 games too.  The Champ is tough.  He’s set a high bar so far....players in their early 20s are inconsistent, let alone an 18 year old, in a new country.

Not trying to give him excuses, just think he needs carefully managing, even if it needs a bit of a tactical change to rest him, whilst Nagy isn’t quite fit.

We could move Taylor Moore into defensive midfield with Baker or Wright coming in. Is Callum a good enough defender for left back? Leave Rowe there.

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8 minutes ago, cidered abroad said:

We could move Taylor Moore into defensive midfield with Baker or Wright coming in. Is Callum a good enough defender for left back? Leave Rowe there.

That’s an option I hadn’t considered.  The similarities with Erik Dier are forming in my mind!

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31 minutes ago, DT The Optimist said:

That’s news, have not heard that one, may well be fake news.  From a knock in August to almost November and still out, bear in mind the Hungary business, is concerning but no hint of an Op from LJ when asked about his return 

No, LJ said in an interview this week that Nagy could need an operation to remove his extra bone

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58 minutes ago, Eastside Moonwalker said:

Rumour is he's out again? I liked what I saw from him at Brum but thats taking the piss a bit. Doing wonders for HNM who is getting way more game time than he probably expected though

I'm not sure that's doing HNM any favours now, he needs a break. He's looking quite weary, which isn't a surprise, and last night I thought looked very frustrated. 

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4 minutes ago, italian dave said:

I'm not sure that's doing HNM any favours now, he needs a break. He's looking quite weary, which isn't a surprise, and last night I thought looked very frustrated. 

agreed, I didn't see him last night but its obvious he needs a few games off. 

 

What I meant was it's allowed us to see what he can do a lot quicker than expected

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9 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Wouldn’t surprise me if Callum plays LB on Sunday and Rowe moves into CM.

Just take him out of the firing line...especially against a physical Wigan.  Started 10 games on the spin, as well as French u19 games too.  The Champ is tough.  He’s set a high bar so far....players in their early 20s are inconsistent, let alone an 18 year old, in a new country.

Not trying to give him excuses, just think he needs carefully managing, even if it needs a bit of a tactical change to rest him, whilst Nagy isn’t quite fit.

I think that’s an excellent shout re: Sunday. Plonking a proper experienced leader in the middle against a team like Wigan makes a lot of sense.

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9 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Wouldn’t surprise me if Callum plays LB on Sunday and Rowe moves into CM.

Just take him out of the firing line...especially against a physical Wigan.  Started 10 games on the spin, as well as French u19 games too.  The Champ is tough.  He’s set a high bar so far....players in their early 20s are inconsistent, let alone an 18 year old, in a new country.

Not trying to give him excuses, just think he needs carefully managing, even if it needs a bit of a tactical change to rest him, whilst Nagy isn’t quite fit.

O'Dowda at LB could be an interesting move for sure- was wondering about it myself earlier- even Rowe could come in and help out, form a 3 with Massengo and Brownhill which wouldn't necessarily then mean you need to rest him- 2 in CM can knacker players but 3 can give a bit more control and ability to rest in possession- know we had a fair bit of possession last night, especially 2nd half, but 2 doing the work of what is often 3 centrally is tough for anyone- let alone, as you say, an 18 year old, in a new country!

These injuries are off the charts though- incredible how well we've done to date tbh.

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12 minutes ago, paul_fox said:

He's got an extra bone? 

He has a Os Trigonum, The os trigonum is an extra (accessory) bone that sometimes develops behind the ankle bone (talus). It is connected to the talus by a fibrous band. The presence of an os trigonum in one or both feet is congenital (present at birth)

I found out recently I have the same, I went over on my ankle and needed an x-ray, I was then told about having this extra bone and also having an broken bone in my foot, which was not connected to the reason I was there. The extra bone they said does not normally cause any problems but can cause complications with foot injuries and the doctor had to contact a specialist for advice on treatment, so maybe this is why Naggy's return is complicated.

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38 minutes ago, Eastside Moonwalker said:

agreed, I didn't see him last night but its obvious he needs a few games off. 

 

What I meant was it's allowed us to see what he can do a lot quicker than expected

Oh, completely agree with you; it's given him a fantastic opportunity that he wouldn't have had, and he's taken it and more. And if Nagy had been back about now, as anticipated, that would have been perfect timing.

And he still showed what he's capable of last night: not least a great pass to Eliasson who was cynically brought down as he ran onto to.

But last night, and at Luton, I was thinking back to QPR and Derby, when his strength and composure defied his age and sight frame, when opposition fans were singing his praises, when he dominated games. He's still OK but not doing that any more, and last night especially I felt he looked like he was losing confidence.

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58 minutes ago, italian dave said:

Oh, completely agree with you; it's given him a fantastic opportunity that he wouldn't have had, and he's taken it and more. And if Nagy had been back about now, as anticipated, that would have been perfect timing.

And he still showed what he's capable of last night: not least a great pass to Eliasson who was cynically brought down as he ran onto to.

But last night, and at Luton, I was thinking back to QPR and Derby, when his strength and composure defied his age and sight frame, when opposition fans were singing his praises, when he dominated games. He's still OK but not doing that any more, and last night especially I felt he looked like he was losing confidence.

Anyone see the long talk LJ had with Massengo during one of the injury breaks in the first half? Massengo then walked to the centre circle where Williams carried on talking to him with his arm around him. I suspect Massengo was getting something tactically wrong they were trying to correct.  

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1 hour ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

O'Dowda at LB could be an interesting move for sure- was wondering about it myself earlier- even Rowe could come in and help out, form a 3 with Massengo and Brownhill which wouldn't necessarily then mean you need to rest him- 2 in CM can knacker players but 3 can give a bit more control and ability to rest in possession- know we had a fair bit of possession last night, especially 2nd half, but 2 doing the work of what is often 3 centrally is tough for anyone- let alone, as you say, an 18 year old, in a new country!

These injuries are off the charts though- incredible how well we've done to date tbh.

I've been annoying many on here by suggesting this all season! Most are happy with Rowe there but for me he hasn't the mobility needed for the modern day full back.

Decent enough for sure if there's no other options, but I've always thought O'Dowda would be the better option there, and would really suit him attacking space full backs get compared to wingers in a 4 who often lack space to attack. Much prefer Rowe in central midfield.

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2 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

I've been annoying many on here by suggesting this all season! Most are happy with Rowe there but for me he hasn't the mobility needed for the modern day full back.

Decent enough for sure if there's no other options, but I've always thought O'Dowda would be the better option there, and would really suit him attacking space full backs get compared to wingers in a 4 who often lack space to attack. Much prefer Rowe in central midfield.

Technically, yes! Attacking outlet? Definitely!

Defensively though, that's my reservation.

Rowe definitely is playing out of position and all credit to him that he has done as well as he has covering IMO- think Rowe can be a bit more cautious which helps. It's a whole new position or would be for O'Dowda though- and that too makes me wonder a bit. Then again, Reid was never a striker until one pre season summer 2017- no Tammy, Tomlin on the way out- Kodjia gone a year before...and what a tactical move that was.

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3 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Technically, yes! Attacking outlet? Definitely!

Defensively though, that's my reservation.

Rowe definitely is playing out of position and all credit to him that he has done as well as he has covering IMO- think Rowe can be a bit more cautious which helps. It's a whole new position or would be for O'Dowda though- and that too makes me wonder a bit. Then again, Reid was never a striker until one pre season summer 2017- no Tammy, Tomlin on the way out- Kodjia gone a year before...and what a tactical move that was.

I think in the right set up a modern day full back can be very attacking, almost like a winger. We could have Pereira as our Walker of Man City who comes inside more. And O'Dowda or Dasilva when he returns can really get forward. Kalas and Moore shift across at times and makes it like a 3 at the back. Rather like Peps tactics at times with Man City with Mendy getting so far forward.

As for his defensive attributes, I don't think he's the bad defensive player people have said on here. And he has that pace in one on ones, which Rowe doesn't. Rowe is the stronger physical player though. But I just think we have nothing down our left. Especially when Baker was left centre back by Rowe. 

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2 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

I think in the right set up a modern day full back can be very attacking, almost like a winger. We could have Pereira as our Walker of Man City who comes inside more. And O'Dowda or Dasilva when he returns can really get forward. Kalas and Moore shift across at times and makes it like a 3 at the back. Rather like Peps tactics at times with Man City with Mendy getting so far forward.

As for his defensive attributes, I don't think he's the bad defensive player people have said on here. And he has that pace in one on ones, which Rowe doesn't. Rowe is the stronger physical player though. But I just think we have nothing down our left. Especially when Baker was left centre back by Rowe. 

Oh yeah he's not bad defensively- for sure. Bit of a step to go from say being good defensively on left wing or similar, or the left of a '3' in a 4-2-3-1- to LB. I just wonder. Dasilva definitely, and yep I can see the possibility of a shft into a back 3 in certain circs with that.

We definitely have a lot of tactical possibilities with this squad- fluidity and flexibility.

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3 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Oh yeah he's not bad defensively- for sure. Bit of a step to go from say being good defensively on left wing or similar, or the left of a '3' in a 4-2-3-1- to LB. I just wonder. Dasilva definitely, and yep I can see the possibility of a shft into a back 3 in certain circs with that.

We definitely have a lot of tactical possibilities with this squad- fluidity and flexibility.

The thing that makes me optimistic about it is he has played wing back a fair amount and always looked solid when pushed back defending. And even played left back against Boro second half and coped very well. Also set up Rowe's goal by beating his man and crossing. Rowe had moved into central midfield when scoring that header.

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DE9541A1-9484-4254-8ACF-86FF9CF6F533.thumb.jpeg.a0992c89f225208b44bd5545cd9e6cbe.jpeg5521F704-0B57-4B3C-B7F3-31D2517A0638.thumb.jpeg.0666772acaeef698a91c3fa43021d29c.jpeg

I don’t think Rowe’s heatmap for last night was too bad at all.  He gets in the box, and he got all the way down the left side too.  I’m surprised how often he does pop up in or around the box....doesn’t always get the ball either.  He doesn’t hug the touchline in patterns of play either, he rotates his position well, coming inside to create angles.

I’m only suggesting playing Callum LB to give Massengo a rest.  I do wonder whether Lee might go diamond again now in Sunday, in which case he’ll probably want O’Dowda as his left sided point, Brownhill at the base....but who on the right and at the top?

Could we see something like this?

8C9CBE57-CBAC-4C92-BC50-7F239E3C1A47.jpeg.f90ad1614fca18211e6af4bebfc8f14e.jpeg

 

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19 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

DE9541A1-9484-4254-8ACF-86FF9CF6F533.thumb.jpeg.a0992c89f225208b44bd5545cd9e6cbe.jpeg5521F704-0B57-4B3C-B7F3-31D2517A0638.thumb.jpeg.0666772acaeef698a91c3fa43021d29c.jpeg

I don’t think Rowe’s heatmap for last night was too bad at all.  He gets in the box, and he got all the way down the left side too.  I’m surprised how often he does pop up in or around the box....doesn’t always get the ball either.  He doesn’t hug the touchline in patterns of play either, he rotates his position well, coming inside to create angles.

I’m only suggesting playing Callum LB to give Massengo a rest.  I do wonder whether Lee might go diamond again now in Sunday, in which case he’ll probably want O’Dowda as his left sided point, Brownhill at the base....but who on the right and at the top?

Could we see something like this?

8C9CBE57-CBAC-4C92-BC50-7F239E3C1A47.jpeg.f90ad1614fca18211e6af4bebfc8f14e.jpeg

 

Not sure whether Massengo will be rested.

3 games with a week between each, then an International break.

Think Sunday will be your team, but Massengo playing and not Sammy.

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5 minutes ago, spudski said:

Not sure whether Massengo will be rested.

3 games with a week between each, then an International break.

Think Sunday will be your team, but Massengo playing and not Sammy.

He might not be, but I think he needs a rest....and would rather do it for a home game.

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1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

He might not be, but I think he needs a rest....and would rather do it for a home game.

I know I'm to Massengo what Shtanley is to Semenyo, but I think the Massengo needs a rest theory is only that; a theory. His perceived drop in performance levels could be due to anh number of reasons, and while it stacks up that he's played an awful lot of minutes, many top youngsters do too.

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18 minutes ago, mozo said:

I know I'm to Massengo what Shtanley is to Semenyo, but I think the Massengo needs a rest theory is only that; a theory. His perceived drop in performance levels could be due to anh number of reasons, and while it stacks up that he's played an awful lot of minutes, many top youngsters do too.

Not many 18 year olds do in the Championship in the centre of midfield though! 😀

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1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

Not many 18 year olds do in the Championship in the centre of midfield though! 😀

I'm watching back the Luton game and just paused at half time. Massengo almost flawless so far. Lost the ball twice, but generally decent on and off the ball, with a few stand out moments. 

Moore pretty flawless too. Weimann and Palmer losing possession a lot with intricate passes, but both working their socks off. Our press is good and we're reasonably solid. What can go wrong 2nd half?!

Edited by mozo
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8 minutes ago, mozo said:

I'm watching back the Luton game and just paused at half time. Massengo almost flawless so far. Lost the ball twice, but generally decent on and off the ball, with a few stand out moments. 

Moore pretty flawless too. Weimann and Palmer losing possession a lot with intricate passes, but both working their socks off. Our press is good and we're reasonably solid. What can go wrong 2nd half?!

For me, Luton was a player positioning problem, not so much what we did on the ball first half.  We lacked a bit of balance positionally and Luton were able to run / advance with the ball deep into our half.  Possibly because Luton overload wide, although I think they created their probs 10-15 yards inside.

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On 24/10/2019 at 23:08, Davefevs said:

For me, Luton was a player positioning problem, not so much what we did on the ball first half.  We lacked a bit of balance positionally and Luton were able to run / advance with the ball deep into our half.  Possibly because Luton overload wide, although I think they created their probs 10-15 yards inside.

Missed this post but yes, there was that- also notable how light in the centre we were too though!

Their 2nd goal...worth watching back in depth, several times- a clear downside of a 4-4-2 at this level, which I think we switched to at 1-0- especially when chasing a game away from home vs a side who had a fairly filled up centre.

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22 minutes ago, Eastside Moonwalker said:

Cause for concern it he’s not at least on the bench tonight? 

Definitely - it’s massively affecting my Football Index profit level!!

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Before the Charlton game (I think) LJ said he'd had an injection to sort the problem and it would be ten days. I guess that would be next game, maybe an U23 runout first.

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