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Stewards (Vs Charlton Athletic)


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1 hour ago, Fordy62 said:

Many years ago as a uniformed officer doing matches I always liked to try and interact with fans, it was nice for them and made my day pass more quickly. 
 

Sadly not everyone is the same and you’re going to get introverts and bellends in all walks of life. Obviously I take no issue with introverts, that’s their nature, but some people completely change in persona as soon as they get something high vis on. Sad really. 

Agreed.

Would also add, unrelated to that 2nd point- people say they aren't always the most cheery- they should be more so, though some will indeed be introverts and that's how they are.

Additionally, Chicken and egg- perhaps some are less than cheery because people have been known to smuggle alcohol in, or similar- let alone pyros etc (I use the term broadly to cover anything from coloured smoke to a flare) and the like and if stuff like alcohol gets in, that doesn't look good on the club. In theory they could smell bottles to see if say a bottle of coke contains alcohol on entry but that would be mental- albeit would technically push trying to uphold regulations to their limit.

OTOH, @AshtonPark has questioned the efficiency and effectiveness of open coat policy. Well if everyone had a pat down on entry (except under 16's of course as I don't see how that could be allowed), as well as the bag search thing then that would undoubtedly detect stuff more readily- but would people then be less happy about it? I think some might! How long would that take too if 6 stewards out the front and the obvious redirection of female supporters to female stewards!

Any thoughts on this general subject ie the stewarding debate @myol'man @The Horse With No Name ?

(Not necessarily the bottle sniffing theoretical though)!

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27 minutes ago, matalan12 said:

I'm SO glad to hear that i'm not the only one that feels like this. its actually quite refreshing to read, i was starting to think it was just me that felt this way.

i find the stewards at our ground, awful. like really awful. like theyve all been hired or trained under the same mindset, where they appear to be as intimidating as possible for no reason what so ever.

when i go to a football game, i really dont even need to see a steward, let alone talk to one. i know where im going, i know what im doing, dont talk to me. stewards are there for assistance, or at least they should be. polite, friendly, approachable, but they are more like security bouncers, who look like they would much rather wish you werent there.

walking from the dolman entrance to s82, it can sometimes feel like a mission to get to my spot. and this really needs to change, its been like this for too long. Against Reading, I was even told off for resting my feet on the chair in front, at half time, with no one around me. Never heard such nonsense.

Rant over, apologies.

If someone has a jacket/coat/hoodie, whatever zipped up, then yes, they will be searched. Likewise if someone carries a bag- just how it is these days.

Likewise, if someone (not saying you personally) takes a pint to their seat then yes, either their pint will be confiscated or they will be allowed to go/sent back to the concourse to finish it. A possible breach of licensing laws AFAIK and all on CCTV so if they don't do this, they will be deemed as somewhat negligent potentially.

Rights and wrongs are a different debate but I can't see those policies going away personally- especially the search ones. The alcohol laws surrounding football though arelong overdue reform!

@JulieH could perhaps advise on my licensing laws theory and the accuracy (or otherwise)?

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Is it only the approach from Ashton Park that stewards check bags etc?  I ask as I usually use that end and always see a line of stewards checking bags and, as mentioned last night, asking for jackets to be opened.  But for the QPR and Swansea games I got the train to Parson Street (the Swansea train "experience" which ended up with me getting  a taxi home from Temple Meads as the WSM-Parkway train was due to stop at Lawrence Hill but was abandoned at TM, but that is for another thread!) I noticed that going through the turnstiles at the South Stand end there were no stewards checking any bags or anything being brought in at all! Which may explain smoke bombs/flares going off at the QPR game!

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40 minutes ago, New Dazzler said:

Is it only the approach from Ashton Park that stewards check bags etc?  I ask as I usually use that end and always see a line of stewards checking bags and, as mentioned last night, asking for jackets to be opened.  But for the QPR and Swansea games I got the train to Parson Street (the Swansea train "experience" which ended up with me getting  a taxi home from Temple Meads as the WSM-Parkway train was due to stop at Lawrence Hill but was abandoned at TM, but that is for another thread!) I noticed that going through the turnstiles at the South Stand end there were no stewards checking any bags or anything being brought in at all! Which may explain smoke bombs/flares going off at the QPR game!

I could easily take multiple smokes into Ashton Gate and that is via the dolman stand with the clubs "checks", they are utterly pointless in the manner they are doing them in.

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3 hours ago, BTRFTG said:

Every game entering the Dolman its the same:

"Open your jacket."

(Ignore & walk through with no response from the prepubescent youth in oversized hi-viz.)

They may be friendly meet and greet types. Should it ever kick off they'd serve little or no purpose. 

Probably an unintended consequence of Disclosures and Barring but in the day I knew many City stewards who were not only fans but we're also of the ability to 'handle themselves' should the need arise (as their 'CVs attested.)

Indeed.

Back in the days of what was then the Open End, one of their stewards was also a bus driver, and he drove me in coaches and mini-buses to many away games.

I recall one eventful trip to Wolverhampton, when his prowess with bottles was such that I am sure he had previous experience as a milkman ?.   

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4 hours ago, italian dave said:

This has been touched on on another thread - the only reason I'm not posting on there is because it's not really on subject, and I don't want "bottle thrown" to become the legacy of last night's game, especially after the threads that dominated after Luton!

But it's reassuring that I'm not alone in getting increasingly fed up with the miserable experience that our stewards create, especially when arriving at the ground nowadays. @BTRFTG describes them as joyless jobsworths on that thread, which is a pretty good description I'd say.

At the park end of the Dolman, where I enter, they are worse than that, bordering  aggressive. I really don't get this 'open your jacket' thing we have; does any other club do that - certainly none I've been to with City this season. And, in the ten yards as you approach then all you get is a bellowed instruction and a line of stewards who, quite literally, jostle you as you try to walk past

And then, go through the turnstile and another line of miserable looking individuals who now seem to be instructed to stare closely at everyone, and disbelievingly at anyone who has the temerity to be using anything other than an adult ticket.

Contrast Brentford, where you're greeted with smiles, "welcome to Brentford", high fives, even hugs from one steward this year. At Luton they were welcoming, happy to have a joke and a smile as they checked people over, in fact I can't think of anywhere I've been this season where I've been made to feel so unwelcome as I have arriving at Ashton Gate.

It's such a shame, because other than that the "match day experience" at Ashton Gate is now so good.

Other clubs? Worth asking FSA Faircop- they usually know about these things. I'd be surprised if we're the only club.

It's a condition of entry I believe. Technically, entry can be refused if an individual refuses to submit to the searches.

Result of people using the 'wrong' tickets maybe? Plus threads on here alerting the club to this- we all need to remember that this is an open forum, and just because the club don't engage on here, doesn't mean they don't check up!

Hypocrisy but that's the way of things and an open forum gives the perfect opportunity for that.

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3 minutes ago, PHILINFRANCE said:

Indeed.

Back in the days of what was then the Open End, one of their stewards was also a bus driver, and he drove me in coaches and mini-buses to many away games.

I recall one eventful trip to Wolverhampton, when his prowess with bottles was such that I am sure he had previous experience as a milkman ?.   

That wouldn’t of been Eastville coaches would it,went on that particular coach a few times and the driver was well up for it.

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Personally the stewards I regularly see don’t hesitate to greet my family and I, some even make a point of stopping to say hello in the stand.  Did note yesterday there were some new steward faces amongst the fans toward the end of the match, it looked like they were there to police the crowd in what was a very hostile atmosphere, pity they did not have the power to remove the officials causing that unrest!

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3 hours ago, BRISTOL86 said:

Never had a single problem. Yes they’re a bit miserable but I would be too droning out ‘open your jacket’ on repeat for 2 hours in the pissing rain for minimum wage. 

Never had any issues at turnstiles in the south stand, generally seem polite on the rare occasion they need to actually do anything. 

Same.

I'd go further and say the guy who is usually on the Raynes Rd gate is almost unfailingly cheerful.

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2 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Which stand are you in out of interest @dave36

Only reason I ask is because there appear to be significant differences in terms of standard of stewarding, or strictness, or consistency depending on where you are in the ground! (Away end will likely be different, granted).

Lower landsdown, no problems at all right from the search line by the ticket office, couple of weeks ago when the unannounced turnstile changes were introduced, they could not have been more helpful in clearing the massive queues caused by that debacle, opening the gates where possible to allow quicker access  while still checking tickets.

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3 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Orange jacketed ones are worse in my experience.

The worst I have seen are the guys in the blue tops. There has been three instances I have witnessed where they have physically over the top in dealing with people 

20 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

Same.

I'd go further and say the guy who is usually on the Raynes Rd gate is almost unfailingly cheerful.

Agree whenever I enter through that entrance he's always polite and friendly 

Equally from the park end of the Dolman Stand there are a couple in yellow that always say Hello and strike up a friendly conversation 

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https://www.bcfc.co.uk/fanzone/supporter-guides/club-charter/

Am not going to post it as it's long, but under Ground Regulations, look through.

Do the club and stewards enforce all to the letter? I'd say thankfully not!

There are a lot of them things could certainly be worse. Happy to highlight examples of them later.

@phantom

Yep, blue top ones can IMO cause more issues than they solve. Orange jacketed ones too at times.

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4 hours ago, BTRFTG said:

Every game entering the Dolman its the same:

"Open your jacket."

(Ignore & walk through with no response from the prepubescent youth in oversized hi-viz.)

They may be friendly meet and greet types. Should it ever kick off they'd serve little or no purpose. 

Probably an unintended consequence of Disclosures and Barring but in the day I knew many City stewards who were not only fans but we're also of the ability to 'handle themselves' should the need arise (as their 'CVs attested.)

 

 

Re: (Ignore & walk through with no response from the prepubescent youth in oversized hi-viz.):

No doubt whistling this on the way through...

 

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5 hours ago, AshtonPark said:

The stewards were so over the top and heavy handed, how it doesnt get classed as assult is beyond me.

 @JulieH Surely this is something you should be able to look into? At one point it looked like headlocks were being used etc.

The event was captured on cctv

3 males were ejected with no offences / complaints reported by either party 

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1 hour ago, AshtonPark said:

I could easily take multiple smokes into Ashton Gate and that is via the dolman stand with the clubs "checks", they are utterly pointless in the manner they are doing them in.

I reckon I could smuggle a horse in.....not that I have one of course.

The 'checks' are a complete waste of time and effort.

 

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1 hour ago, NOTBLUE said:

That wouldn’t of been Eastville coaches would it,went on that particular coach a few times and the driver was well up for it.

I don't recall seeing 'Eastville' on any of the livery - the driver in question was from further afield, more 'Big Tits Lil, from Sodbury Hill' territory.

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I've looked at the ground regs in full based on the Club Charter. Would be particularly interested in the thoughts of @AshtonPark and  @BTRFTG as they are regular critics in this respect, plus @italian dave and @matalan12 as they both expressed strong views on this thread.   

Quote

The use of threatening behaviour, foul or abusive language is strictly forbidden and will result in arrest and/or ejection from the Ground. The Club may impose a ban for one or more Matches.

Some may say chants which contain swearing would come under foul and abusive language? Yet some certainly do!

Quote

The chanting of anything of an indecent or racialist nature.

Could some argue that part of the Kasey Palmer chant is indecent?  I don't think so myself and nor do most people I expect, but by the letter?

Quote

Nobody may stand in any seating area whilst play is in progress. Persistent standing in seated areas whilst play is in progress is strictly forbidden and may result in ejection from the Ground.

Top rows of the Dolman and South Stand! ?

Quote

Attempting to enter the Ground or being inside the Ground whilst drunk;

Nobody inside a football stadium is ever drunk eh?? ?

Quote

Save as set out in paragraph 16 above, no person (other than a person who holds an appropriate licence) may capture, log, record, transmit, play, issue, show or otherwise communicate (by digital or other means) any Material in relation to the Match, any players or other persons present in the Ground and/or the Ground, nor may they bring into the Ground or use within the Ground (or provide to, facilitate or otherwise assist another person to use within the Ground) any equipment or technology which is capable of capturing, logging, recording, transmitting, playing, issuing, showing or otherwise communicating (by digital or other means) any such Material. Copyright, database rights and any other intellectual property rights in any unauthorised recording or transmission is assigned (by way of present assignment of future rights) to the Club and The EFL. You further agree (if and whenever required to do so by the Club and/or The EFL) to promptly execute all instruments and do all things necessary to vest the right, title and interest in such rights to the Club and The EFL absolutely and with full title guarantee.

Anyone recording bits of the game then?? Or in fact, recording anything without permission- you see lots of examples of heavy handed stewarding on Social Media- technically if an individual records it, then that individual is in breach!

Quote

 Tickets are not transferable and may not be offered for sale without the prior written permission of the Club. Any tickets that are transferred are transferred subject to these Ground Regulations. Any tickets offered for sale may be confiscated by any steward, officer of the Club or any police officer. The Club reserves the right to refuse admission to or eject from the Ground, any person who has transferred his/her ticket in contravention of the relevant ticket terms and conditions (and/or the holder of any ticket that has been transferred in contravention of the relevant ticket terms and conditions.) Tickets remain the property of the Club at all times.

So when people sell tickets AT FACE VALUE because they cannot make it, or loan their Season card to a mate as again they cannot make it, is this not allowed? 

Quote

At all times whilst present in the Ground, persons must comply with any and all instructions of any steward or officer of the Club and/or any police officer. Failure to comply with any instruction may lead to immediate ejection from the Ground.

How many ejections per game would this lead to?

Oh yes, and last but by no means least: 

Quote

All persons seeking entrance to the Ground acknowledge the Club's right to search any person entering the Ground and to refuse entry to or eject from the Ground any person refusing to submit to such a search.   

IF someone will refuse open coat policy etc, then someone can be refused admission is the layman's terms explanation of this. 

Things could be much worse in short!

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There's nothing there that's a big surprise @Mr Popodopolous, I'd imagine pretty standard ground rules that are probably displayed more prominently at some other grounds.

There's also nothing there I'd fundamentally object to. I don't especially like being searched, but I understand why, and as someone who has been quite open about my dislike of flares I especially understand why at AG, or at City away games. I'd share @BTRFTG 's view that the open coat policy at AG seems pretty ineffective and pointless, but I don't have a problem opening my coat if that's what they want.

I guess it's all about how those rules are interpreted and enforced. As I've said in this thread, I've been searched (far more thoroughly at AG) and had my ticket checked at Brentford, and I think that their stewards are fantastic - to the point where I've written to the club to say so. Because they are welcoming, smiling, engaging. Maybe I'm just unlucky, maybe it's my face (it's certainly not because I refuse to open my coat) but at AG they are the polar opposite.

Same with the other stuff: I have been known to swear, sometimes loudly, usually at a referee! I've never been asked not to, but if someone had a quiet word I wouldn't object. And I'd shut up! I wouldn't expect to be ejected. But at the same time if someone launches into a stream of abusive language and won't shut up then that's the rule that enables the club to do something.

I don't think the KP song is obscene: just a statement of fact (maybe tongue in cheek for one or two, I don't know!!). The HNM one certainly involves foul language, but again it's not something that anyone would really object to is it? Whereas someone repeatedly using that word in a different context maybe.

I just think it's about common sense about the right attitude and culture. I don't think it's too much to expect that when you arrive at the ground you're treated to something a bit more friendly than someone bellowing "open your coats" at you repeatedly as you approach them and deliberately stepping into the path of people walking past them. 

On a more positive note, have to say that since they finished the concourse and the new food outlets, we now have some of the friendliest and most helpful people working there than at any other ground I go to. I'd imagine they're on minimum wage too - so that's no excuse for the stewards. 

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48 minutes ago, italian dave said:

There's nothing there that's a big surprise @Mr Popodopolous, I'd imagine pretty standard ground rules that are probably displayed more prominently at some other grounds.

There's also nothing there I'd fundamentally object to. I don't especially like being searched, but I understand why, and as someone who has been quite open about my dislike of flares I especially understand why at AG, or at City away games. I'd share @BTRFTG 's view that the open coat policy at AG seems pretty ineffective and pointless, but I don't have a problem opening my coat if that's what they want.

I guess it's all about how those rules are interpreted and enforced. As I've said in this thread, I've been searched (far more thoroughly at AG) and had my ticket checked at Brentford, and I think that their stewards are fantastic - to the point where I've written to the club to say so. Because they are welcoming, smiling, engaging. Maybe I'm just unlucky, maybe it's my face (it's certainly not because I refuse to open my coat) but at AG they are the polar opposite.

Same with the other stuff: I have been known to swear, sometimes loudly, usually at a referee! I've never been asked not to, but if someone had a quiet word I wouldn't object. And I'd shut up! I wouldn't expect to be ejected. But at the same time if someone launches into a stream of abusive language and won't shut up then that's the rule that enables the club to do something.

I don't think the KP song is obscene: just a statement of fact (maybe tongue in cheek for one or two, I don't know!!). The HNM one certainly involves foul language, but again it's not something that anyone would really object to is it? Whereas someone repeatedly using that word in a different context maybe.

I just think it's about common sense about the right attitude and culture. I don't think it's too much to expect that when you arrive at the ground you're treated to something a bit more friendly than someone bellowing "open your coats" at you repeatedly as you approach them and deliberately stepping into the path of people walking past them. 

On a more positive note, have to say that since they finished the concourse and the new food outlets, we now have some of the friendliest and most helpful people working there than at any other ground I go to. I'd imagine they're on minimum wage too - so that's no excuse for the stewards. 

Oh I know they are standard across the country @italian dave just pointing out that there is scope to be more anal and annoying- pointlessly so on their part but the scope exists!

Open coat or a pat down? Guessing the latter would be more effective if anything- or a wand search! If the open coat one done well, it may be of use in detecting things. They're looking for all kinds of things I suspect.

Is an interesting one. Believe that in general our stewards in the away end are not so bad (I don't include last night's OTT reaction!)- I believe that there is generally more tolerance to away fans at a lot of grounds these days in some respects, allowed to persistently stand, allowed to do things that home fans regularly are not owing to crowd management and pragmatism, ie to enforce the same regs in the same way would risk disorder- Brentford ones sound exemplary however! You read some horror stories from away fans at clubs about stewarding on Twitter...seldom at AG!

You see, that shows pragmatism- albeit pragmatism that is generally on display across the country. I suspect that if hypothetically, that if we had our stewards all replaced with bouncers from Security firms tomorrow, we'd see quite a different approach and it would not be one to the liking of the fans- would actually probably cause serious crowd disorder sooner rather than later!

Agreed.

Yes indeed- no problem with either of those songs at all personally. If looked at to the letter though and that's the point I'm trying to make. Ending chants in "you c***s" as one section of the ground is known to do definitely fits this though! ;)

It's a condition of entry- problem is when people try to evade things, and this is human nature, you get a reaction- which is what you describe. People will always push the boundaries and over time, this might rightly or wrongly piss people off. However at the same time, I don't disagree that this can be improved and yes, should be.

Back to the single point about coat open policy- I bet @AshtonPark and @BTRFTG would be complaining if stewards got in the way to an extent that evade or try to evade search, you don't get in! As technically the regs allow for.

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7 hours ago, supercidered said:

To be honest I saw their fans trying to punch stewards after they ran down to the front after scoring. The stewards ran in to get it sorted which I Thought was fair enough!

Hate to say this is nonsense 

I just watched the game back, one of the Charlton supporters is over the barrier celebrating but gets stopped before he gets to the electronic advertising boards by two stewards. 

He then climbs back over the barrier onto the steps where a second Charlton supporter is also celebrating. 

At this point one of the stewards is pulling the arm of the second supporter trying to pull him through the barriers gate.

In this action the supporter is clearly struggling to break free and get back up into the stand.

THIRTEEN stewards are now grabbing these TWO supporters. Three get one supporter onto the area between the barriers and the advertising where the remaining TEN stewards are now dragging the remaining supporter into the same area. 

There are CLEARLY NO PUNCHES THROWN but seems a MASSIVE overreaction in needing THIRTEEN stewards to physically drag the TWO supporters out of the stand. 

Only ONE left the stand the other was on the steps 

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Three lairy cockneys didn't get to kiss their goal-scorer, well boo-*******-hoo.

Who gives a s***! Not sure why any City fan would be weeping over this.

They could've watched the rest of the match if they'd returned to their seats when asked and not decided to struggle with the stewards.

Football grounds are highly controlled environments. That often is quite frustrating for us fans, but we all know why the game has ended up like that. If someone tells you to return to your seat in an away ground, return to the area you're meant to be in and celebrate from there. Don't be a d***. You aren't Rambo. You're just a tosser who now has to wait around outside the ground for your mates for three-quarters of an hour while your team loses.

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5 hours ago, JulieH said:

The event was captured on cctv

3 males were ejected with no offences / complaints reported by either party 

Incident is clear on the TV coverage, certainly didn't look good for our stewards. Interesting as only looked like two Charlton fans were removed and of these one of them never left the stand

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Technically, they probably had the right to eject- and use proportionate force in doing so.

However I do doubt that the right level of force was on here.  That many stewards and security for a start??

Yet,  had said fans got onto the pitch I don't think it'd have been a good look for the club given the added scrutiny post Luton! Any footage on YouTube or similar?

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