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Premier League My Arse - based on last 4 games


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29 minutes ago, Alex_BCFC said:

WBA who are top have failed to beat Charlton and Barnsley at home this week. Wonder if it is doom and gloom there too!

Yes but WBA have also battered sides you’d expect them to beat. For me, performances have been ordinary at best all season. Think that is the difference

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26 minutes ago, JoeAman08 said:

Yes but WBA have also battered sides you’d expect them to beat. For me, performances have been ordinary at best all season. Think that is the difference

I wouldn’t say that looking at their results. Mostly close games with a fair few draws and narrow wins in there. 

There is hardly anything between the top and bottom of this league - once we have our players back then we will have games we do dominate but until then it will be a struggle. Just grateful to see us hanging in there for now. 

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3 minutes ago, Alex_BCFC said:

I wouldn’t say that looking at their results. Mostly close games with a fair few draws and narrow wins in there. 

There is hardly anything between the top and bottom of this league - once we have our players back then we will have games we do dominate but until then it will be a struggle. Just grateful to see us hanging in there for now. 

True. I am grateful we are up in the mix. Just want some better performances to make it feel we are legitimate contenders. We have the talent and ability but rarely seen to put it together. That said, that is why we are a championship club and not higher up. 

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13 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

4 pts from 2 home was about what I was deep down expecting.

Wouldn't say it was a disaster, but still 2 dropped today- but then I thought it might be beat Wigan, be held by Charlton.

6th with half a team out and still to return- and surely this run of injuries will turn soon, it's beyond ridiculous- is not a terrible place to be.

What do you think LJ will do differently if he gets everyone back?

I'm not sure he will change his approach at AG  to be honest. 

Pretty much since Wolves a couple of years ago treating games like a chess match.

It's hard to watch when you don't get 3 points but people need to accept this is how it is going to be.

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27 minutes ago, Loon plage said:

What do you think LJ will do differently if he gets everyone back?

I'm not sure he will change his approach at AG  to be honest. 

Pretty much since Wolves a couple of years ago treating games like a chess match.

It's hard to watch when you don't get 3 points but people need to accept this is how it is going to be.

Here's what I hope he will do- and there are many ways he can make it work IMO if we get most, or everyone, back.

Version 1.

                 Bentley

Hunt Kalas Moore Dasilva

          Nagy Massengo

  Brownhill Palmer Eliasson

              Weimann

Now there is a concern about being exposed on our left yes. There though would be a lot of positives to this shape though IMO- Brownhill can drop into 3 as and when, that will help with control and those 3 as a barrier. Perhaps even more so if injuries haven't wrecked him, dropping Smith into that central 2 for Massengo- experience too- Brownhill can perhaps in some phases too help support Hunt.

Version 2.

The same- except for some games, maybe Brownhill central and O'Dowda wide- those 2 can mix their positions, and their support.

Or for some, perhaps O'Dowda, Brownhill and Eliasson- O'Dowda has been passable defensively in the past, in terms of supportinjg his full back, perhaps Brownhill the other side- plus the flexibility for Brownhill to drop easily back into that 3. 

Maybe Version 4.

               Bentley

Hunt Kalas Moore Dasilva

Brownhill Nagy Massengo OR Smith Eliasson OR O'Dowda

                 Palmer 

                Weimann

We have a real myriad of options to take control, to get a greater spark. Even for some games, Pereira for Hunt so we can switch to a back 3 as and when in game, with a bit more conservative right hand side- albeit technically better than, higher ceiling than Pisano. My doubts about LJ stem from a certain rigidity at times.

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14 hours ago, Marina's Rolls Royce said:

The season we got to the play offs V Hull was not exactly like watching Brazil- I remember a number of matches we won or drew and thought how the **** did that happen?

IF we can be 6th after nearly a third of the season gone , playing not that well overall, with some very very good players to return AND a window to come.......

 

I'd say the OP is an arse and needs to celebrate being 1 win from the leaders.

I'd say there's no need to make unnecessary personal comments - the op's points are valid imo. 

You don't 'celebrate' (another) poor performance and scraping a home point you didn't deserve against very limited opposition.

We have matches where we simply don't turn up and should we somehow get to the play off final again playing like this, as you seem to suggest we might above, we can almost guarantee that like Hull, the final would be another disappointing 'off day', another of those days where City inexplicably create very little and under perform.

We're all content with our league position but it's clear if we don't find some consistency, and especially if we don't start putting very average opposition to the sword at AG, we won't be up there for long.

Whatever our league position the fact that so many home performances have been completely unsatisfying, lacking both excitement and entertainment, for a long time is going to lead to post match frustration, and understandably so.

When I get home post match the comment all too often is, 'oh, dear that sounded really bad on the radio, nothing seemed to be happening and the atmosphere sounded flat' and I can't disagree.

Despite injuries - yes, we seem to have been particularly unfortunate but let's not pretend other clubs don't have them - we could, and should be doing better imo, and could start by at least setting up the team with the intention of taking the game to the opposition at AG and give the fans something to shout about.

 

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3 minutes ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

I'd say there's no need to make unnecessary personal comments - the op's points are valid imo. 

You don't 'celebrate' (another) poor performance and scraping a home point you didn't deserve against very limited opposition.

We have matches where we simply don't turn up and should we somehow get to the play off final again playing like this, as you seem to suggest we might above, we can almost guarantee that like Hull, the final would be another disappointing 'off day', another of those days where City inexplicably create very little and under perform.

We're all content with our league position but it's clear if we don't find some consistency, and especially if we don't start putting very average opposition to the sword at AG, we won't be up there for long.

Whatever our league position the fact that so many home performances have been completely unsatisfying, lacking both excitement and entertainment, for a long time is going to lead to post match frustration, and understandably so.

When I get home post match the comment all too often is, 'oh, dear that sounded really bad on the radio, nothing seemed to be happening and the atmosphere sounded flat' and I can't disagree.

Despite injuries - yes, we seem to have been particularly unfortunate but let's not pretend other clubs don't have them - we could, and should be doing better imo, and could start by at least setting up the team with the intention of taking the game to the opposition at AG and give the fans something to shout about.

 

Other clubs do have them yes, but not to this extent! We're unlucky in other ways too- remember the Wright simulation ban and the Diedhiou 6 game ban, no real precedent, in one case no clear evidence in the second.

Interesting to know your blueprint here.

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10 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Other clubs do have them yes, but not to this extent! We're unlucky in other ways too- remember the Wright simulation ban and the Diedhiou 6 game ban, no real precedent, in one case no clear evidence in the second.

Interesting to know your blueprint here.

My blueprint as far as OTIB is concerned is posters shouldn't be labelled an arse, or their post a '****w*t for making valid points just because others disagree with them.

Those who actually go to games, while satisfied by our league position, may be understandably far from satisfied with home performances.

This forum is for debate - let's not close that debate down with rude and dismissive comments.

Do you keep an eye on other clubs' injury lists for comparison btw?

I've said ours seems particularly bad - but those coming in as replacements are deemed Championship quality players, are they not?

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2 minutes ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

My blueprint as far as OTIB is concerned is posters shouldn't be labelled an arse, or their post a '****w*t for making valid points just because others disagree with them.

Those who actually go to games, while satisfied by our league position, may be understandably far from satisfied with home performances.

This forum is for debate - let's not close that debate down with rude and dismissive comments.

Do you keep an eye on other clubs' injury lists for comparison btw?

I've said ours seems particularly bad - but those coming in as replacements are deemed Championship quality players, are they not?

Agreed.

At times I do, yes- think Leeds often have it quite bad, but ours seems even worse than theirs. Reading betting previews it often states injuries and injury lists.

Agreed,

I'd say our home displays more of a mixed bag- remember too, there are two sides on the pitch, there are two tactical blueprints- we've pl;ayed a number of high riding sides at home, but Leeds, QPR, Swansea and Charlton in the first 7- it's not an easy start, given the last 3 are surprise packages and the first one are one of the best sides in the League.

Blueprint, I mean tactically speaking.

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53 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Here's what I hope he will do- and there are many ways he can make it work IMO if we get most, or everyone, back.

Version 1.

                 Bentley

Hunt Kalas Moore Dasilva

          Nagy Massengo

  Brownhill Palmer Eliasson

              Weimann

Now there is a concern about being exposed on our left yes. There though would be a lot of positives to this shape though IMO- Brownhill can drop into 3 as and when, that will help with control and those 3 as a barrier. Perhaps even more so if injuries haven't wrecked him, dropping Smith into that central 2 for Massengo- experience too- Brownhill can perhaps in some phases too help support Hunt.

Version 2.

The same- except for some games, maybe Brownhill central and O'Dowda wide- those 2 can mix their positions, and their support.

Or for some, perhaps O'Dowda, Brownhill and Eliasson- O'Dowda has been passable defensively in the past, in terms of supportinjg his full back, perhaps Brownhill the other side- plus the flexibility for Brownhill to drop easily back into that 3. 

Maybe Version 4.

               Bentley

Hunt Kalas Moore Dasilva

Brownhill Nagy Massengo OR Smith Eliasson OR O'Dowda

                 Palmer 

                Weimann

We have a real myriad of options to take control, to get a greater spark. Even for some games, Pereira for Hunt so we can switch to a back 3 as and when in game, with a bit more conservative right hand side- albeit technically better than, higher ceiling than Pisano. My doubts about LJ stem from a certain rigidity at times.

Palmer only as an influential sub.

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1 hour ago, Loon plage said:

What do you think LJ will do differently if he gets everyone back?

I'm not sure he will change his approach at AG  to be honest. 

Pretty much since Wolves a couple of years ago treating games like a chess match.

It's hard to watch when you don't get 3 points but people need to accept this is how it is going to be.

Well versus QPR when he had nearly everyone fit, it was a much better performance than any other home one this season against a side near the top 6. I mean not amazing but a million miles better than the last 2 home games so at least he was trying to address it.

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On a recent thread someone has said Boro fans were relieved not to be playing Pulisball and probably didn’t care about their league position yet.

i have to say I think I would feel the same about City. Chasing the Premier league is not the only objective but sadly as we are run  as a business, it probably is for Bristol Sport. I “think” I would (happily) accept more defeats for much more entertainment and finish mid table.

its easy to be shut up with people quoting injuries and yes we are sixth, but shouldn’t it be a fun season, where the journey was fun rather than just the destination? Or is this unrealistic?

i can’t remember a run of three exciting home performances in a row since Bobby left?

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16 hours ago, scrumpy88 said:

I think the problem is although we are all happy we are currently in a play off position. (Only October I know) the football we have been playing in the last 12/18 months has been boring and painful to watch. 

Why can’t we start each half fast and attack the opposition instead of slow ponderous play allowing the opposition to get settled especially when we are at home. 

 

Totally agree 

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I have to admit, we looked like a team from the bottom 6, not the top 6 yesterday.

We saved a point because Wigan looked like they couldn't score from open play in a million years. 

The only time we came out on top was after the against-the-run-of-play equaliser. Then our superior fitness told, we were pressing, and it was unfortunate that late Weimann shot was pushed onto the bar and went over, when it could've easily bounced back into play.

We WILL improve, once injured players start returning, but putting our eggs in an Afobe-shaped basket in the summer will probably mean we'll almost certainly be looking at Championship fixtures in 2020-21. 

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48 minutes ago, Dullmoan Tone said:

On a recent thread someone has said Boro fans were relieved not to be playing Pulisball and probably didn’t care about their league position yet.

Go to the Boro forum - they have no faith in Woodgate and are just as angry now as when they were when Pulis was in charge. Except this season they might go down.

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1 hour ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Agreed.

At times I do, yes- think Leeds often have it quite bad, but ours seems even worse than theirs. Reading betting previews it often states injuries and injury lists.

Agreed,

I'd say our home displays more of a mixed bag- remember too, there are two sides on the pitch, there are two tactical blueprints- we've pl;ayed a number of high riding sides at home, but Leeds, QPR, Swansea and Charlton in the first 7- it's not an easy start, given the last 3 are surprise packages and the first one are one of the best sides in the League.

Blueprint, I mean tactically speaking.

Tactically speaking you pick a team and set them up to attempt to dominate the opposition and attack at home.

LJ used to do this when he first took over.

That half season after Cotts left, mixed results as you'd expect in the Championship, but a 6 week period of home games included:

Bolton W 6-0

Sheff. Weds. W 4-1

Huddersfield W 4-0

LJ sending out his team to take the opposition by the throat and attacking from the off.

Exciting, entertaining football, and, not surprisingly, a great atmosphere in the ground.

LJ seems to have changed his philosophy to be more negative and responsive at AG.

Perhaps he's stagnated a bit tactically or is over thinking things?

Certainly far more tentative at AG it seems to me.

 

 

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6 minutes ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

Tactically speaking you pick a team and set them up to attempt to dominate the opposition and attack at home.

LJ used to do this when he first took over.

That half season after Cotts left, mixed results as you'd expect in the Championship, but a 6 week period of home games included:

Bolton W 6-0

Sheff. Weds. W 4-1

Huddersfield W 4-0

LJ sending out his team to take the opposition by the throat and attacking from the off.

Exciting, entertaining football, and, not surprisingly, a great atmosphere in the ground.

LJ seems to have changed his philosophy to be more negative and responsive at AG.

Perhaps he's stagnated a bit tactically or is over thinking things?

Certainly far more tentative at AG it seems to me.

 

 

2016/17 was mixed for me.

2017/18 was pretty good at home.

Since then? Yeah, more reactive for sure!

Interested in the specifics of what you suggest though- setup, shape- formation, yet a need to negate and counteract will remain too. Football at higher levels is becoming more chess like.

Different country but fairly high calibre game, admittedly April 2010- and there are a couple of examples I can pull tbh.

http://www.zonalmarking.net/2010/03/27/roma-2-1-inter-tactics-de-rossi-milito-toni/

Look how many times both sides changed tactics in that one though!

Also google Mournho comments on Gasperini. Changed tactics multiple times to counteract in game!

Still though, do you want wingers- do you want to flood the centre? 4-3-3, 4-4-2- how do you go about achieving that dominance?

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I agree with the OP that the last 4 performances have not been convincing, but they gave us 7 points and we are right up there in the mix. 

It’s important to remember that we have been decimated by injuries to first-choice players, so LJ’s choice has been restricted to fielding players that would probably not have started had we got a fully fit squad to choose from. Diedhiou, love him or hate him, is also not an option now for the next 2 games, so we are even more restricted than we already were. 

6th place with a reserve squad is pretty bloody good in my opinion. 

Just imagine what we will do with Kalas, Nagy, Smith and co fully fit!!!!

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17 hours ago, Alex_BCFC said:

WBA who are top have failed to beat Charlton and Barnsley at home this week. Wonder if it is doom and gloom there too!

As usual "current form" can be a good indication of what's happening..

As stands today we're 13th,,which I believe looks about right on performances over the last month or so..............

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We talk about concerns and rightly we should have some, but I question how durable other clubs are up the top end.

  1. West Brom- have some questions about them, though less than other sides.
  2. Swansea- More flexible than last season, but still you wonder- depth?
  3. QPR- Are they actually top 6 material?
  4. Charlton- Newly promoted and great momentum, but how long can they keep it up?
  5. Sheffield Wednesday- Big unknown as to what sanctions they might face. Plus one or 2 reservations about them.
  6. Nottingham Forest- Points outstripping performances.

I'd say minimum of 2, and possibly 4 or even all 6 of these are vulnerable!

Conversely, expect Fulham to rise- their squad is great. Cardiff could yet, but something seems not right there- squad seems stronger than last season. Brentford if they get some consistency- also like a number of Blackburn's players, but they seem not to be at the level they should be- yet a midfield of Holtby-Johnson with Dack just in front has a lot of potential. Birmingham could yet surprise a few, Derby- well their away form is letting them down somewhat, but OTOH sometimes a court case can create a bit of a siege mentality and if you get that spark then you can kick on! Definitely expect Fulham to go on a strong run though.

For what it's worth however, the Expected Goals table has us in quite a different position.

2019-10-27-2-ch.png?w=860&h=947

Certainly don't take it as a given but an interesting take!

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So this logic is based on our current squad with half the first team best players missing? Wait until they are back before writing our chances off, this patched up team has done exceptionally well to keep going and pick up points. There are 32 matches left, and we are 6th, and yet according to some we are not good enough, can you imagine if we were 6th bottom just what it would be like on here?

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21 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

We talk about concerns and rightly we should have some, but I question how durable other clubs are up the top end.

  1. West Brom- have some questions about them, though less than other sides.
  2. Swansea- More flexible than last season, but still you wonder- depth?
  3. QPR- Are they actually top 6 material?
  4. Charlton- Newly promoted and great momentum, but how long can they keep it up?
  5. Sheffield Wednesday- Big unknown as to what sanctions they might face. Plus one or 2 reservations about them.
  6. Nottingham Forest- Points outstripping performances.

I'd say minimum of 2, and possibly 4 or even all 6 of these are vulnerable!

Conversely, expect Fulham to rise- their squad is great. Cardiff could yet, but something seems not right there- squad seems stronger than last season. Brentford if they get some consistency- also like a number of Blackburn's players, but they seem not to be at the level they should be- yet a midfield of Holtby-Johnson with Dack just in front has a lot of potential. Birmingham could yet surprise a few, Derby- well their away form is letting them down somewhat, but OTOH sometimes a court case can create a bit of a siege mentality and if you get that spark then you can kick on! Definitely expect Fulham to go on a strong run though.

For what it's worth however, the Expected Goals table has us in quite a different position.

2019-10-27-2-ch.png?w=860&h=947

Certainly don't take it as a given but an interesting take!

Leeds  have only scored 5 at home this season. Twice as boring as us!

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8 minutes ago, The Original OTIB said:

Leeds  have only scored 5 at home this season. Twice as boring as us!

They generally dominate sides and at home especially, so I don't know how you work that one out. Some long ball teams down the years have been known to be fairly free scoring- entertaining?

Goals=entertainment is one way to interpret it. Not one I'd go for at times, but an interpretation definitely!

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4 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

They generally dominate sides and at home especially, so I don't know how you work that one out. Some long ball teams down the years have been known to be fairly free scoring- entertaining?

Fact: only 5 at home. Second part, a joke/flippant remark based upon that, nothing more. Ain't stats a funny thing ...

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