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Mr Popodopolous

Afobe- costs, terms and insurance- impact on January budget?

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Apologies for a separate thread- perhaps stick it in the original Afobe thread if necessary but feel it needs a bit of prominence as it covers a few things.

Does anyone know the following, either for sure or as near as we can get?

  1. Afobe loan fee- whether there was one, and size of it?
  2. Do we get a partial reimbursement on any loan fee that there may have been, given he was injured about 1/3 of the way through?
  3. What % of his wages we are/were paying?
  4. Who pays his wages post the long term injury and whether it would end in January.
  5. Has he insurance that would help to mitigate this?
  6. How much is left in the pot if one or more of these are negative for us!

Would be interesting to see, as clearly he will need replacing- the question is, can we actually do so!

Edited by Mr Popodopolous

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53 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Apologies for a separate thread- perhaps stick it in the original Afobe thread if necessary but feel it needs a bit of prominence as it covers a few things.

Does anyone know the following, either for sure or as near as we can get?

  1. Afobe loan fee- whether there was one, and size of it?
  2. Do we get a partial reimbursement on any loan fee that there may have been, given he was injured about 1/3 of the way through?
  3. What % of his wages we are/were paying?
  4. Who pays his wages post the long term injury and whether it would end in January.
  5. Has he insurance that would help to mitigate this?
  6. How much is left in the pot if one or more of these are negative for us!

Would be interesting to see, as clearly he will need replacing- the question is, can we actually do so!

I'll give this a bash.  I have no inside knowledge. 

1. No idea 
2. I'd imagine not.  We technically broke him, so I don't see why we would get any money back.  We have lowered his value too. 
3. No idea
4. We will have to pay his wages as per the contract
5. No idea
6. Nobody would know that apart from SL. He would have a budget, but that depends if we are contenders in January I would imagine.  If we are there or there abouts, I'm sure he would want to capitalise on that with some free cash. But thats just total guesswork. 

Nobody apart from MA and SL would really know the answer to most of these questions.  We do need a replacement for BA, but as usual we will only do so if the right player comes along at the right price. I think that has always been and always will be the case.  Our main focus is SSP, but we're at the beginning of a new SSP cycle. 

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9 minutes ago, Badger08 said:

I'll give this a bash.  I have no inside knowledge. 

1. No idea 
2. I'd imagine not.  We technically broke him, so I don't see why we would get any money back.  We have lowered his value too. 
3. No idea
4. We will have to pay his wages as per the contract
5. No idea
6. Nobody would know that apart from SL. He would have a budget, but that depends if we are contenders in January I would imagine.  If we are there or there abouts, I'm sure he would want to capitalise on that with some free cash. But thats just total guesswork. 

Nobody apart from MA and SL would really know the answer to most of these questions.  We do need a replacement for BA, but as usual we will only do so if the right player comes along at the right price. I think that has always been and always will be the case.  Our main focus is SSP, but we're at the beginning of a new SSP cycle

Thanks.

  1. Likewise.
  2. Sounds about right!
  3. Likewise.
  4. Wonder for how long.
  5. Likewise.
  6. Likewise.

Ah yes, FFP- or as it in Championship is technically known apparently P&S- Profit and Sustainability- pretty ironic name given the lack of the former at most clubs!

New cycle? Thought it was rolling...nonetheless this season is to an extent maybe a free hit for us provided that there are no in-season points deductions as we've almost certainly got a strong position from the sales of Kodjia in 2016, Reid, Bryan, Flint in 2018- Magnússon and Djuric also removed some amortisation and maybe a profit in the first, plus Kelly and Webster summer just gone. It's if there are in-season deductions as was mooted a year or 2 ago where we need to think twice. The other reason is that if we do go up with a hefty breach, a points penalty is meant to follow you up to the PL under this system- it's unclear though! Plus of course if we go for broke and fail, then we would have the big loss in 2017/18 as our new starting point, at just the time at the EFL look like they are clamping down significantly.

We could sell the ground or inflate assets for sale and leaseback but EFL are investigating, with future legal action by the EFL vs those clubs not ruled out if those clubs have taken the piss- that's quite the possible double punishment if guilty!

Intrigued by the new cycle thing though!

Edited by Mr Popodopolous

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3 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Thanks.

  1. Likewise.
  2. Sounds about right!
  3. Likewise.
  4. Wonder for how long.
  5. Likewise.
  6. Likewise.

Ah yes, FFP- or as it in Championship is technically known apparently P&S- Profit and Sustainability- pretty ironic name given the lack of the former at most clubs!

New cycle? Thought it was rolling...nonetheless this season is to an extent maybe a free hit for us provided that there are no in-season points deductions as we've almost certainly got a strong position from the sales of Kodjia in 2016, Reid, Bryan, Flint in 2018- Magnússon and Djuric also removed some amortisation and maybe a profit in the first, plus Kelly and Webster summer just gone. It's if there are in-season deductions as was mooted a year or 2 ago where we need to think twice. The other reason is that if we do go up with a hefty breach, a points penalty is meant to follow you up to the PL under this system- it's unclear though! Plus of course if we go for broke and fail, then we would have the big loss in 2017/18 as our new starting point, at just the time at the EFL look like they are clamping down significantly.

We could sell the ground or inflate assets for sale and leaseback but EFL are investigating, with future legal action by the EFL vs those clubs not ruled out if those clubs have taken the piss- that's quite the possible double punishment if guilty!

Intrigued by the new cycle thing though!

SSP!!! hahaha.  

Totally mean FFP.  

Maybe Afobe is on SSP!! jesus, long day already. 

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4 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Thanks.

  1. Likewise.
  2. Sounds about right!
  3. Likewise.
  4. Wonder for how long.
  5. Likewise.
  6. Likewise.

Ah yes, FFP- or as it in Championship is technically known apparently P&S- Profit and Sustainability- pretty ironic name given the lack of the former at most clubs!

New cycle? Thought it was rolling...nonetheless this season is to an extent maybe a free hit for us provided that there are no in-season points deductions as we've almost certainly got a strong position from the sales of Kodjia in 2016, Reid, Bryan, Flint in 2018- Magnússon and Djuric also removed some amortisation and maybe a profit in the first, plus Kelly and Webster summer just gone. It's if there are in-season deductions as was mooted a year or 2 ago where we need to think twice. The other reason is that if we do go up with a hefty breach, a points penalty is meant to follow you up to the PL under this system- it's unclear though! Plus of course if we go for broke and fail, then we would have the big loss in 2017/18 as our new starting point, at just the time at the EFL look like they are clamping down significantly.

We could sell the ground or inflate assets for sale and leaseback but EFL are investigating, with future legal action by the EFL vs those clubs not ruled out if those clubs have taken the piss- that's quite the possible double punishment if guilty!

Intrigued by the new cycle thing though!

You could be right Sir.  I might have dreamt it but I though they did it over a period of time and then it resets again.  I could be totally wrong mind you.  I'm sure someone with better knowledge than me could put me straight. 

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1 minute ago, Badger08 said:

You could be right Sir.  I might have dreamt it but I though they did it over a period of time and then it resets again.  I could be totally wrong mind you.  I'm sure someone with better knowledge than me could put me straight. 

Tbh, they have been known to tinker with it- pretty sure it is rolling though, but happy to be corrected!

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6 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Apologies for a separate thread- perhaps stick it in the original Afobe thread if necessary but feel it needs a bit of prominence as it covers a few things.

Does anyone know the following, either for sure or as near as we can get?

  1. Afobe loan fee- whether there was one, and size of it? Yes, I reckon £2m+ (My xls has £2.5m based on the rumoured low(ish) option to buy fee.
  2. Do we get a partial reimbursement on any loan fee that there may have been, given he was injured about 1/3 of the way through? I very much doubt it
  3. What % of his wages we are/were paying? I reckon we’ll be paying £20-25k per week (whatever percentage that is of his wages
  4. Who pays his wages post the long term injury and whether it would end in January. We signed him on a season loan, so will be responsible for wages until end of season.  Stoke would be stupid to activate any recall in January.
  5. Has he insurance that would help to mitigate this? @Coppello reckons injury insurance is rare, my contact says some clubs will insure a player at a major tournament.
  6. How much is left in the pot if one or more of these are negative for us!  I reckon we have a budget of £3-5m in January, unless we trade.  But will be good to see annual accounts to check a few of my figures.

Would be interesting to see, as clearly he will need replacing- the question is, can we actually do so!

I’ll have a stab above, and then let @Kid in the Riot make me look stupid! 😜

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8 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I’ll have a stab above, and then let @Kid in the Riot make me look stupid! 😜

Thanks- that sounds pretty decent range- but a good set of answers- appreciate the detail!

It I fear will cost us quite dear then...£3-5m in January, that's decent- if we're creative, and more than decent if we trade! Assuming too pricy for a Gayle loan as there would surely be a loan fee...Adams isn't getting much game time at Southampton, I wonder? McGoldrick could help link the good attributes of Weimann and Palmer and may not even cost all that much. Vydra? Some gametime but not a huge amount- would definitely fit the way we apparently would like to play, moving forwards.

Course, if Leeds don't want Nketiah...or don't sufficently use him, maybe they lose him.

Edited by Mr Popodopolous
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6 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I’ll have a stab above

 

6 minutes ago, Davefevs said:
  1. Afobe loan fee- whether there was one, and size of it? Yes, I reckon £2m+ (My xls has £2.5m based on the rumoured low(ish) option to buy fee.
  2. Do we get a partial reimbursement on any loan fee that there may have been, given he was injured about 1/3 of the way through? I very much doubt it
  3. What % of his wages we are/were paying? I reckon we’ll be paying £20-25k per week (whatever percentage that is of his wages
  4. Who pays his wages post the long term injury and whether it would end in January. We signed him on a season loan, so will be responsible for wages until end of season.  Stoke would be stupid to activate any recall in January.
  5. Has he insurance that would help to mitigate this? @Coppello reckons injury insurance is rare, my contact says some clubs will insure a player at a major tournament.
  6. How much is left in the pot if one or more of these are negative for us!  I reckon we have a budget of £3-5m in January, unless we trade.  But will be good to see annual accounts to check a few of my figures.

Would be interesting to see, as clearly he will need replacing- the question is, can we actually do so!

Hard to argue as the club won't release the figures unless it has to, but I would put one counter possibility. 
Stoke would be keen to get BA off of the wage bill, and eventually out of the club. If mark Ashton really put it too them, and allowing for the fact it was late in the day we signed him, we may well have got him for less. Hard to gauge wages but a quick look on Tinternet suggests low £30k a week, if we offered 50-75% (not too far off your figures) and offered and escape at the end, I would think Stoke would be happy. 

As I said, I'm basing this on nothing more than the lateness of our bid, and the fact they were paying Prem wages to some players, while sitting at the bottom of the League. Said Berahino was rumoured to be on £70k and had his contract terminated, so I could see them keen to offload a player who was another high earner.

The rest is what I would think. I'm majorly disappointed for him and us, I said at the time I thought he was a better fit than EN, and it looked to be turning out that way. Time will tell if he ends up here, just hope he can get over this latest injury.

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Is it just me that thinks he might make a Greg Halford-type miraculous recovery and be fit during February?!

once again the club have not put any timescale on it ( as far as im aware ) so im holding out for the injury being a tear rather than rupture so a quicker recovery. Plus they did say if he could play again this year then he’d stay with us. 
my money is on no signings in Jan and waiting for BA to be fit in Feb!!!

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13 minutes ago, ashtonphil mk2 said:

I have been reliably informed ( by Benik himself) that he will be fit again in April. Don't know if that's April 2nd or April 30th..

But that;s what he told me

 

That's great news for him but no way would we be signing him now after two identical serious knee injuries . Sad but that's business.

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Didn't I read he was due for a scan and update soon, then the club would make a decision on whether he would stay with us or go back to Stoke.

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The only person who knows the true figures is Mark Ashton.  Fortunately he has made a statement: 

A lot of supporters have asked about the Afobe deal so let me give absolute clarity on this deal. I've been working at the very top of this industry for over 20 years and it's absolutely paramount that the CEO provides transparency and clarity. First and foremost any deal I'm involved in for this football club has to be right for all parties - it has to be right for the player, his representatives, the loaning club , the Head Coach and most importantly for this football club. I will never do any deal that doesn't put the interests of this football club first and of course every deal is done with the support and backing of the Lansdown family. Specifically with this deal and with any deal I have to ensure we protect ourselves financially but also ensure I balance the risk with bold action to ensure we continue to improve our quality going forward. Let me be absolutely clear that this particular loan, and indeed every loan, is structured to ensure we protect our financial exposure whilst simultaneously giving Lee and his staff the very best chance of achieving our shared goals. I hope I have given you the clarity you seek and be assured how much your support is valued at this football club.

Mark Ashton CEO

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15 minutes ago, OldlandReddies said:

That's great news for him but no way would we be signing him now after two identical serious knee injuries . Sad but that's business.

Different knees though isn`t it?

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24 minutes ago, 1960maaan said:

Didn't I read he was due for a scan and update soon, then the club would make a decision on whether he would stay with us or go back to Stoke.

We'd likely still have to pay his wages until May though, wouldn't we?

However to have him back for a month- if true- maybe he could be properly match fit by the playoffs...would be a major boost momentum wise at least.

Edited by Mr Popodopolous

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"Specifically with this deal and with any deal I have to ensure we protect ourselves financially but also ensure I balance the risk with bold action to ensure we continue to improve our quality going forward. Let me be absolutely clear that this particular loan, and indeed every loan, is structured to ensure we protect our financial exposure whilst simultaneously giving Lee and his staff the very best chance of achieving our shared goals. I hope I have given you the clarity."  Crystal clear!!

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11 minutes ago, swampy said:

"Specifically with this deal and with any deal I have to ensure we protect ourselves financially but also ensure I balance the risk with bold action to ensure we continue to improve our quality going forward. Let me be absolutely clear that this particular loan, and indeed every loan, is structured to ensure we protect our financial exposure whilst simultaneously giving Lee and his staff the very best chance of achieving our shared goals. I hope I have given you the clarity."  Crystal clear!!

Hmmm @swampy.

Read the post again, then perhaps check with the official site. 

Do you see MA's statement anywhere?

Have you ever heard of Private Eye or The Daily Mash?

They often contain what are known as 'spoof' articles.

Now read the post again 😉.

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11 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Apologies for a separate thread- perhaps stick it in the original Afobe thread if necessary but feel it needs a bit of prominence as it covers a few things.

Does anyone know the following, either for sure or as near as we can get?

  1. Afobe loan fee- whether there was one, and size of it?
  2. Do we get a partial reimbursement on any loan fee that there may have been, given he was injured about 1/3 of the way through?
  3. What % of his wages we are/were paying?
  4. Who pays his wages post the long term injury and whether it would end in January.
  5. Has he insurance that would help to mitigate this?
  6. How much is left in the pot if one or more of these are negative for us!

Would be interesting to see, as clearly he will need replacing- the question is, can we actually do so!

The answer is 42. Now you need to get the question right. 

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2 hours ago, OldlandReddies said:

That's great news for him but no way would we be signing him now after two identical serious knee injuries . Sad but that's business.

⬇️

2 hours ago, Lanterne Rouge said:

Different knees though isn`t it?

Yes, my understanding too....which means the other knee has successfully gone 6 years without recurrence.

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6 hours ago, Davefevs said:

I’ll have a stab above, and then let @Kid in the Riot make me look stupid! 😜

Dave I have always found I have no need for anyone to make me look stupid, I seem very good at doing it myself.

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8 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

We'd likely still have to pay his wages until May though, wouldn't we?

However to have him back for a month- if true- maybe he could be properly match fit by the playoffs...would be a major boost momentum wise at least.

Can't recall where I read it , but the list was , it was thought he might be back earlier than expected but they were waiting to see results. If he was confirmed out most of the season he would go back to his parent club. 
I guess its' wait and see.

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2 hours ago, 1960maaan said:

Can't recall where I read it , but the list was , it was thought he might be back earlier than expected but they were waiting to see results. If he was confirmed out most of the season he would go back to his parent club. 
I guess its' wait and see.

True.. All depends on the fine detail of the contractual terms- I guess.

Generally with this stuff, if we don't need to cover his wages until end of season. Well I'd be pleasantly surprised.

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