Frustrated with City results ? Dont be

[ExiledAjax]

54 minutes ago, Robbored said:

A win and Barnsley on Friday and everyone will be happy...............

Honestly I care little about the result on Friday (although of course my preference would be that we win). As you say it's a long season so there'll be time to make up any points dropped.  I'm far more interested in us putting together a coherent performance where we at least attempt to control midfield and play some positive football. If one more sloppy backwards pass on the halfway line from Palmer or Brownhill gets intercepted I'll blow my top.

[Natchfever]

14 minutes ago, old_eastender said:

It seems to me that away from home LJs cautious approach to counter the opposition largely works, but at home he seems to take the same approach - too much worrying about the opposition and not enough picking a team to take the game to them and let them worry about us!

 

[Red 90]

Nobody expects to win every game, especially in a division like the Championship. You will also have days where teams play you off the park which happens but I think where the frustration comes is when teams rock up and easily take points off us but don't even have to play that well to do it.

[cidered abroad]

47 minutes ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

I think our poor performance made Wigan look better than they are. They must have been surprised City were so awful.

Delighted if we beat Barnsley, of course, but we need to be a lot more positive, entertaining and convincing at home.

 

Spot on!

[Nogbad the Bad]

1 hour ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Particularly interested in the desired tactical setup of @Nogbad the Bad- attacking is one thing, but in what structure- what view? 2 up front, wingers- condense midfield, control? How do we reach that desired point, control and dominance?

Remember too, the opposition do- will- have a tactical blueprint and idea of their own- this division is a lot more tactically sophisticated and varied than even 10 years ago!

I don't pretend to be a tactical expert Mr. P.

To answer your question my suggestion is LJ picks a team and sets them up in a way that shows his utter determination to get that first goal that he often says is so vital.

Get at the opposition's throats from the off and keep applying pressure until they wilt: once in the lead the support from the home fans will carry the team through on most occasions.

The players can't enjoy playing so ponderously, and sometimes seemingly aimlessly at home - LJ needs to let them off the leash at AG and stop worrying about the opposition. 

Let them worry about us, and all the more for them to worry about if they're a goal down in front of a boisterous celebratory AG crowd baying for more and they need to change their formation/tactics/blueprint to try and get back in the game.

As for a 'tactical blueprint' - I don't see one embedded in LJ's City team, do you?

So what have we got to lose by being more adventurous at AG?

 

 

[Mr Popodopolous]

Just now, Nogbad the Bad said:

I don't pretend to be a tactical expert Mr. P.

To answer your question my suggestion is LJ picks a team and sets them up in a way that shows his utter determination to get that first goal that he often says is so vital.

Get at the opposition's throats from the off and keep applying pressure until they wilt: once in the lead the support from the home fans will carry the team through on most occasions.

The players can't enjoy playing so ponderously, and sometimes seemingly aimlessly at home - LJ needs to let them off the leash at AG and stop worrying about the opposition. 

Let them worry about us, and all the more for them to worry about if they're a goal down in front of a boisterous celebratory AG crowd baying for more and they need to change their formation/tactics/blueprint to try and get back in the game.

As for a 'tactical blueprint' - I don't see one embedded in LJ's City team, do you?

So what have we got to lose by being more adventurous at AG?

 

 

I'd like a more positive tactical approach too, Nogbad.

That's true- get the fans on side, a positive approach does help.

Agree to a point- but unsure I fully do so, because I am wary of opening us up to a quick break- or being outnumbered in the centre, either in dominance terms or quick breaks.

Definitely the first goal is often important.

True- he seems to tinker somewhat.

I don't know...certainly while we are so hamstrung by injuries, I feel that until we have key players back, we may need to battle through a bit- when we have key players back, yeah the platform will be to go up a level or 2, through the gears- play a shape that can excite, control and dominate at home.

[McNasty Filth]

Home form is not a surprise, its being going on since the start of last season. Because it's been going on for so long, this is definitely a coaching/tactics issue with LJ and his staff.

This season seems to be even worse in the case of our ability to retain possession, and string more than five or six passes together when on the opposition half.

[Mr Popodopolous]

1 minute ago, jaydee=inspiration said:

Home form is not a surprise, its being going on since the start of last season. Because it's been going on for so long, this is definitely a coaching/tactics issue with LJ and his staff.

This season seems to be even worse in the case of our ability to retain possession, and string more than five or six passes together when on the opposition half.

Nagy returning should be of assistance there.

Just generally though, until he bites the bullet and gets a proper 3 centrally in midfield to help or aim to control the game, I fear this will be a recurring theme- perhaps even gets worse. This also helps to ease pressure on the defence- or would do if we played that way!

[JoeAman08]

48 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

I'd like a more positive tactical approach too, Nogbad.

That's true- get the fans on side, a positive approach does help.

Agree to a point- but unsure I fully do so, because I am wary of opening us up to a quick break- or being outnumbered in the centre, either in dominance terms or quick breaks.

Definitely the first goal is often important.

True- he seems to tinker somewhat.

I don't know...certainly while we are so hamstrung by injuries, I feel that until we have key players back, we may need to battle through a bit- when we have key players back, yeah the platform will be to go up a level or 2, through the gears- play a shape that can excite, control and dominate at home.

But like @Nogbad the Bad set up for how we want to play. Counters will happen but we have heavily invested in midfield and defense to counter these breaks.
 

Preston have conceded 9 at home in 8 games. Most sides would take an away goal(the avg they concede). Difference is they have scored 22(we have scored 22 all season)at home. They make momentum and often keep it.

It may mean we are a bit more open but I could argue against Wigan more possession would have helped our defense as we conceded from set pieces. 

Our results have been borderline brilliant with out injuries but our performances aren’t that of a top 6 side. Top 6 is really the only way we can say we have improved this season so the performances are important imo. 

[RedEyez]

We’ve lost the 2nd fewest in the league. 

The most competitive league in the world and we are competing .

4 points separate 2nd and 12th!!

[The chief]

Whilst some performances are a bit woeful, to dominate teams week in week out is not possible for any team in this league.

With the exception of Luton and Leeds we’ve been in with shout of winning or at least getting points in every game we’ve played, no matter how badly we’ve played, which is very positive in such a competitive league.

We are also scoring a lot of important late goals which perhaps suggests lee is happy for us to not be too energetic and play the high press or dominate teams from the outset. This is a bit of a dilemma as when we take the game to our opposition we look like a really good side (eg 2nd half vs Charlton even with 10 men).

Nagy will make a difference when back and let’s hope we’ve an option up front in mind come jan- could make all the difference.....

 

[Dr Balls]

12 hours ago, JoeAman08 said:

But like @Nogbad the Bad set up for how we want to play. Counters will happen but we have heavily invested in midfield and defense to counter these breaks.
 

Preston have conceded 9 at home in 8 games. Most sides would take an away goal(the avg they concede). Difference is they have scored 22(we have scored 22 all season)at home. They make momentum and often keep it.

It may mean we are a bit more open but I could argue against Wigan more possession would have helped our defense as we conceded from set pieces. 

Our results have been borderline brilliant with out injuries but our performances aren’t that of a top 6 side. Top 6 is really the only way we can say we have improved this season so the performances are important imo. 

The difference between ourselves and Preston is the quality of our midfield. Theirs is combative and robust, (I am being too nice there in describing Pearson) and attack orientated (Johnson and Barkhuisen). It’s also relatively settled.

On the other hand, we have Brownhill, who at best blows hot and cold, plus Massengo as the wunderkind picking up the pieces around him. We don’t really know how to fit Palmer into our style of play, except as a cameo from the bench when we are chasing the game (which was true last season too, hence the surprise that we bought him) and with Nagy out injured, we miss that Pack-style defensive midfielder, who sits in front of the defence, and brings the ball out.

As for our forwards, I feel for Weimann. He runs his socks off every match, making run after run without someone putting him through. Rodri looks like he needs a similar playmaker behind him to play balls into him, so starting Palmer on Sunday made sense, but it just didn’t work, partly because the rest of midfield (Brownhill and O’Dowda) were outgunned.

in large part this is tactical. When we set up as 3-5-2, unlike the set up in our promotion season under Cotterill where this was very attack orientated, under LJ, we often become 5-3-2,  defensive yet also lacking in midfield, and poor supply upfront. Given who we have available with Diedhiou suspended, and our 2 wing backs (Hunt and Dasilva) injured, the best option, would be 4-3-1-2, with Brownhill, Massengo and O’Dowda as the 3, with Palmer just behind the forwards. That way if Palmer loses the ball, there is still cover behind, plus we might actually get some balls through to the strikers.

The bottom line is that in previous seasons playing like this, we would have lost a lot more games, so something has improved. However, we can’t continue with performances of the current standard and expect to stay in and around the playoffs. It’s fine to bemoan our injuries and suspensions, but they are part of the game, and the best coaches manage to get the best out of what they have got, regardless of those challenges. Time for LJ to prove whether or not he really has learnt, as he can no longer play the novice card.

[JoeAman08]

55 minutes ago, Dr Balls said:

The difference between ourselves and Preston is the quality of our midfield. Theirs is combative and robust, (I am being too nice there in describing Pearson) and attack orientated (Johnson and Barkhuisen). It’s also relatively settled.

On the other hand, we have Brownhill, who at best blows hot and cold, plus Massengo as the wunderkind picking up the pieces around him. We don’t really know how to fit Palmer into our style of play, except as a cameo from the bench when we are chasing the game (which was true last season too, hence the surprise that we bought him) and with Nagy out injured, we miss that Pack-style defensive midfielder, who sits in front of the defence, and brings the ball out.

As for our forwards, I feel for Weimann. He runs his socks off every match, making run after run without someone putting him through. Rodri looks like he needs a similar playmaker behind him to play balls into him, so starting Palmer on Sunday made sense, but it just didn’t work, partly because the rest of midfield (Brownhill and O’Dowda) were outgunned.

in large part this is tactical. When we set up as 3-5-2, unlike the set up in our promotion season under Cotterill where this was very attack orientated, under LJ, we often become 5-3-2,  defensive yet also lacking in midfield, and poor supply upfront. Given who we have available with Diedhiou suspended, and our 2 wing backs (Hunt and Dasilva) injured, the best option, would be 4-3-1-2, with Brownhill, Massengo and O’Dowda as the 3, with Palmer just behind the forwards. That way if Palmer loses the ball, there is still cover behind, plus we might actually get some balls through to the strikers.

The bottom line is that in previous seasons playing like this, we would have lost a lot more games, so something has improved. However, we can’t continue with performances of the current standard and expect to stay in and around the playoffs. It’s fine to bemoan our injuries and suspensions, but they are part of the game, and the best coaches manage to get the best out of what they have got, regardless of those challenges. Time for LJ to prove whether or not he really has learnt, as he can no longer play the novice card.

I agree with this but what then would frustrate me is why is Preston getting more out of their parts than we are? They don’t spend nearly what we do. They are probably a bit older but not much. Is it just Neil that is making that difference? 
 

As for tactical I have said before I think Brownhill ends up the odd man out. I really rate him but not the way LJ uses him. I thought we’d go back to 4231 with our options this year. Nagy and Massengo would be my preference as a screen in front of the defense allowing fullbacks to get forward. You can use Korey Smith in that role as well. While JB can play it, don’t think it is his strength. So you’d have to leave him out or play him on the right which may affect Eliasson. 
 

I think it is time for Lj to show another gear. Think we know he can grind out results which is fair enough. It is nice to be in the top 6 race in the last few games but feel like we could have made a jump one of these last few years from borderline playoff side to auto promotion contenders. Maybe we still can if we get healthy but I expected better performances these last few home games than we got

[Tinmans Love Child]

Personally I think we have learned from previous seasons where we went all guns blazing to start off and everyone’s getting excited, then we crash and burn out spectacularly.  I think we are on a slow burn, knowing that winning early season doesn’t gauruntee  anything and we will improve as the real crunch part of the season comes, where historically we have failed, and this will especially be the case when injured players come back, and if we manage to sign a striker in Jan!

[City oz]

2 minutes ago, Tinmans Love Child said:

Personally I think we have learned from previous seasons where we went all guns blazing to start off and everyone’s getting excited, then we crash and burn out spectacularly.  I think we are on a slow burn, knowing that winning early season doesn’t gauruntee  anything and we will improve as the real crunch part of the season comes, where historically we have failed, and this will especially be the case when injured players come back, and if we manage to sign a striker in Jan!

Yes agreed a slow burn but not quite getting ignited for long periods of the game. We are still in an ok position of which has to be one of the toughest leagues in the world to get promoted from but on the other hand one of the easiest to drop out of. There is no doubt that all on OTIB expect the highest standards and a top 2 at the end of the season. What are we now 6th and I bet if we new at the start of the season that we only lossed twice and were in this position at the end of October the majority would of been satisfied. Injuries have had an impact but 6th is still respectable and a win on Friday night will push us up to what second place ? Well at least until Saturday afternoon any way. We are still on a slow burn as quoted by TLC but we need to start firing up fairly quickly as it will end up in tears again.

[downendcity]

3 hours ago, Dr Balls said:

The difference between ourselves and Preston is the quality of our midfield. Theirs is combative and robust, (I am being too nice there in describing Pearson) and attack orientated (Johnson and Barkhuisen). It’s also relatively settled.

On the other hand, we have Brownhill, who at best blows hot and cold, plus Massengo as the wunderkind picking up the pieces around him. We don’t really know how to fit Palmer into our style of play, except as a cameo from the bench when we are chasing the game (which was true last season too, hence the surprise that we bought him) and with Nagy out injured, we miss that Pack-style defensive midfielder, who sits in front of the defence, and brings the ball out.

As for our forwards, I feel for Weimann. He runs his socks off every match, making run after run without someone putting him through. Rodri looks like he needs a similar playmaker behind him to play balls into him, so starting Palmer on Sunday made sense, but it just didn’t work, partly because the rest of midfield (Brownhill and O’Dowda) were outgunned.

in large part this is tactical. When we set up as 3-5-2, unlike the set up in our promotion season under Cotterill where this was very attack orientated, under LJ, we often become 5-3-2,  defensive yet also lacking in midfield, and poor supply upfront. Given who we have available with Diedhiou suspended, and our 2 wing backs (Hunt and Dasilva) injured, the best option, would be 4-3-1-2, with Brownhill, Massengo and O’Dowda as the 3, with Palmer just behind the forwards. That way if Palmer loses the ball, there is still cover behind, plus we might actually get some balls through to the strikers.

The bottom line is that in previous seasons playing like this, we would have lost a lot more games, so something has improved. However, we can’t continue with performances of the current standard and expect to stay in and around the playoffs. It’s fine to bemoan our injuries and suspensions, but they are part of the game, and the best coaches manage to get the best out of what they have got, regardless of those challenges. Time for LJ to prove whether or not he really has learnt, as he can no longer play the novice card.

Injuries are indeed part and parcel of the game, but in fairness to LJ this is not losing the odd player for a couple of games, he has lost the spine of what would be his first choice team ( Kalas, Nagy and Afobe) and the loss of Nagy and Afobe particularly makes a huge difference to the way we play and are able to play. 

You say the best coaches manage to get the best out of what they have got, but being without Dasilva, Kalas, Nagy and Afobe for the majority of the season LJ has still managed to get us within a win of top of the table - if that isn't getting the best out of what you've got, then I'm not sure what is. How many other championship teams could lose that number of key players, and for so long, yet still remain competitive at the top of the table.

Don't get me wrong, we would all want better performances, especially at Ashton Gate, but I can imagine that had LJ changed things to make us more attacking and attractive to watch, but we had lost the last 2 home games by the odd goal, there would be a host of posts on here questioning why LJ had to tinker and change things thereby costing us important points.

 

[mozo]

I think people are more frustrated with performances, rather than results. We seem to be a really hardworking unit, but reckless with the ball and lacking cohesion in attack.

I'm craving pass and move at the moment.

[maxjak]

20 hours ago, GreedyHarry said:

Saturday Rodri clearly gesticulated 4 or 5 times in the first half where he wanted the ball to be put so that he could run on. Ignored each time!

I know this seems obvious, but considering that Rodri is presently our best chance of scoring a few goals........why aren't they working on the training pitch to set up in a way that plays to his strengths and the way he likes to receive the ball?  Considering that we  have LJ and some top coaches at the club, it would appear straightforward to practice this approach?

[cidered abroad]

5 minutes ago, maxjak said:

I know this seems obvious, but considering that Rodri is presently our best chance of scoring a few goals........why aren't they working on the training pitch to set up in a way that plays to his strengths and the way he likes to receive the ball?  Considering that we  have LJ and some top coaches at the club, it would appear straightforward to practice this approach?

"LJ and some top coaches"

Evidence please. Or just your assumption that because we are sixth in Championship, they must be top notch?

[Natchfever]

8 minutes ago, cidered abroad said:

"LJ and some top coaches"

Evidence please. Or just your assumption that because we are sixth in Championship, they must be top notch?

Tin hat time 

[AppyDAZE]

9 minutes ago, cidered abroad said:

"LJ and some top coaches"

Evidence please. Or just your assumption that because we are sixth in Championship, they must be top notch?

LJ.... and some top coaches :laugh: Cant stop thinking of that in a different way... Some top coaches,

then LJ 

[pillred]

20 hours ago, ExiledAjax said:

What's your bet? I reckon WBA away at the end of November.

Should have a few of our injured back by then though.

[JoeAman08]

39 minutes ago, maxjak said:

I know this seems obvious, but considering that Rodri is presently our best chance of scoring a few goals........why aren't they working on the training pitch to set up in a way that plays to his strengths and the way he likes to receive the ball?  Considering that we  have LJ and some top coaches at the club, it would appear straightforward to practice this approach?

Tbf there have only been a few days to do that until now. Signed just before Luton then a couple days before Charlton then a couple days before Wigan. Realistically only a couple days proper training before Barnsley. With Cardiff being 9 days after that will be the best time to really nail down a style around him

39 minutes ago, maxjak said:

I know this seems obvious, but considering that Rodri is presently our best chance of scoring a few goals........why aren't they working on the training pitch to set up in a way that plays to his strengths and the way he likes to receive the ball?  Considering that we  have LJ and some top coaches at the club, it would appear straightforward to practice this approach

[maxjak]

3 hours ago, cidered abroad said:

"LJ and some top coaches"

Evidence please. Or just your assumption that because we are sixth in Championship, they must be top notch?

Maybe I should have prefaced it with.......Supposedly?    However considering where we are, they would appear to be better than average?

[Sturny]

[downendcity]

25 minutes ago, Sturny said:

LJ out!

[Judda]

Interesting to see how even the whole league is... more sides at the bottom with 3 wins in last 5 games...

Well middle 3rd anyway...

[Davefevs]

3 minutes ago, Judda said:

Interesting to see how even the whole league is... more sides at the bottom with 3 wins in last 5 games...

Well middle 3rd anyway...

And still only one team unbeaten in 5...Huddersfield.  It’s very open this season.  I’m enjoying it.  We are doing alright.

[ExiledAjax]

51 minutes ago, Judda said:

Interesting to see how even the whole league is... more sides at the bottom with 3 wins in last 5 games...

Well middle 3rd anyway...

The absence of a truly dominant team is clear. There's no team on more than 2 points per game. But it's the fact that there's only 1 on more than 1.8 that is particularly unusual and means that points have been shared around more than usual. 

This time last season you had the top 3 all on 26, followed by 3 on 24, 13th place was on 19 as well - so a similar situation.

2015/16, 2016/17 and 2017/18 had the top 3 all on at least 2 points per game at this stage.

[ExiledAjax]

On 29/10/2019 at 09:09, Red-Robbo said:

We are due an absolute spanking.

 

On 29/10/2019 at 09:16, ExiledAjax said:

What's your bet? I reckon WBA away at the end of November.

 

On 29/10/2019 at 09:33, Red-Robbo said:

Please God let it not be Cardiff...    

I claim my win.