RedRaw Posted October 29, 2019 Report Share Posted October 29, 2019 5 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said: Means that we can subtract that, whatever the proportion is from losses moving forward for FFP purposes basically. This year it seemed to have been £38,065. There ya go.......that’ll cover Clarke-Harris’s release clause Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted October 29, 2019 Report Share Posted October 29, 2019 5 minutes ago, RedRaw said: There ya go.......that’ll cover Clarke-Harris’s release clause Or it'd cover a nice wage increase for him- I mean £38k over what he has now. @Drew Peacock The good news for FFP at least is tax isn't taken into account. So whatever our profit is, is just that- plus any allowable costs, net of grants in some cases. Likewise if we were granted tax relief on a loss, that wouldn't count either AFAIK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Peacock Posted October 29, 2019 Report Share Posted October 29, 2019 57 minutes ago, pride of the west said: I'm not an accountant and I'm sure there's ways around it but won't we have to pay tax on any profit? I am sure accumulated losses brought forward will outweigh this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 29, 2019 Report Share Posted October 29, 2019 It's so much we lose without selling isn't it. I guess we have got loads of value in our squad. Who do we sell in the next 2 windows I wonder? Wright, Baker, Paterson, Taylor. Then maybe a couple we ideally do not want to lose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted October 29, 2019 Report Share Posted October 29, 2019 5 minutes ago, billywedlock said: Well this dispels the sob story we do not compete on wages. Sides with far less resources got promoted last year. Outside of parachute payment clubs, we are the leading club. This season remains a big year with the resources spent . We are well placed, and so we should be with that vast spending . LJ has had it all now time to deliver, the platform is there. This is LJ opportunity to demonstrate he has the ability to deliver a promotion side. Unsure about that. The only likely one I can think of is Sheffield United. Norwich sold big in 2017/18, did brilliant- but they had 2 years of parachute payments to help to ease the transition- interested to know how much their wage bill came down as I've seen many figures online. Are we? Only reason I ask is that most clubs have not yet released their accounts for 2018/19 so we truly don't know. I'd say playoffs a legit target, yeah. Wages were about £30m or thereabouts weren't they- but that's inclusive of pension contributions etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledAjax Posted October 29, 2019 Report Share Posted October 29, 2019 2 minutes ago, JonDolman said: It's so much we lose without selling isn't it. I guess we have got loads of value in our squad. Who do we sell in the next 2 windows I wonder? Wright, Baker, Paterson, Taylor. Then maybe a couple we ideally do not want to lose. tbh most of the value is probably sat in the new signings. Dasilva if fit and sold is worth maybe 3 or 4x what we paid. Massengo if he carries on as he is could easily go for as much as Kelly did. Kalas is probably holding at 8-10m. Other than them it's players like Brownhill who would bring the major paydays. Pereira is an interesting one though - we have an option on him similar to the one we had with Dasilva so in a situation where his value goes above that pre-agreed fee there's potential to flip him through window for a bit of a profit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coppello Posted October 29, 2019 Report Share Posted October 29, 2019 Just now, Mr Popodopolous said: My personal view on that subject that in the Championship...ain't happening. PL, yes. Upper end League One, lower end Championship yoyo, maybe- but then why pour in all that cash to the ground and infrastructure if otherwise. Simply Upper end League One, with a great academy and Cup runs- think a big version of how oh I don't know, Crewe used to be- that'd be quite possible, but who wants that with our fan base etc? Championship, especially over a period of time? Not without significant changes structurally ie wage % limits, a new huge TV deal, % of salary increase per year etc- other than that, I don't see how apart from the odd year it's possible- but to break even let alone turn profit exclusive of player trading, parachute payments or shall we say interesting transactions that a few clubs have done? Nope. This. Sustainability cannot be achieved in the Championship based on the current model without either of the following: a) Parachute payments from the Premier League b) a footballing miracle where you keep your wage base incredibly low and you're getting an unbelievable return from your players. The only slight caveat is if you're a very large club with high revenues from the sale of goods, non-matchday revenues or huge ticket sales. You could argue that if you continue to recruit in the manner that we have, you are running a football club sustainably. However, you're going to have seasons where you're not making a significant player trading profit. Another issue with this is that as you sell players for a greater sum, the asking price for the replacement increases as was seen with the rumoured Maguire > Dunk > Webster rumour that went on all summer. Regarding profit, EBITDA (Earnings Before Interest Tax Depreciation Amortization) is considered to be the most appropriate measure for reviewing the performance of a football club. It's effectively your cash profit from running your football club without notional accounting charges for buying and selling players. This is a £15m EBITDA loss which is actually worse than the prior year (£14.6m). I might review and do a bit of analysis at a later date but the player trading profit is exceptional, particularly when you consider that it doesn't include the sale of Webster which could bring in another £15m or more in the next years accounts. One slight distortion is the timing of the transfer windows has meant that the 18/19 accounts are going to bring in a more favourable profit. In the 17/18 season, the window opened on the 1st June for English clubs (if I'm not mistaken) and it was on 16th May 2019 for the current year. This is quite significant for our accounts which have a May year end as certain transactions such as the sale of Kelly would usually fall into the following season. When you consider that the window also closed before the season started, clubs were incentivised to finish their business earlier in the window and didn't have a World Cup to contend with which often delays the chain of transfers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 29, 2019 Report Share Posted October 29, 2019 1 minute ago, ExiledAjax said: tbh most of the value is probably sat in the new signings. Dasilva if fit and sold is worth maybe 3 or 4x what we paid. Massengo if he carries on as he is could easily go for as much as Kelly did. Kalas is probably holding at 8-10m. Other than them it's players like Brownhill who would bring the major paydays. Pereira is an interesting one though - we have an option on him similar to the one we had with Dasilva so in a situation where his value goes above that pre-agreed fee there's potential to flip him through window for a bit of a profit. Pereira fee is agreed at 5.5 isn't it? Seems a bit high, though he does look very good for a 21 year old. I think Brownhill goes for about 15 next summer. Dasilva could be worth a fortune when he improves imo. Hes england under 21 left back, and kept Kelly out most of last season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robin_unreliant Posted October 29, 2019 Report Share Posted October 29, 2019 So for 19/20 having raised about £25m from Webster, Pack and Eisa we are probably about even? Looking at the permanent deals in the summer, loan fees and extra wages there can't be much left over. Which suggests even if we don't spend much in Jan we are on course for a £25m loss this season? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted October 29, 2019 Report Share Posted October 29, 2019 6 minutes ago, billywedlock said: Norwich figure was below ours, there was an article with their CEO mid season it was mid 20 millions (I accept that in January they may have signed someone I don't recall as that was after article ) . Yes they sold well, as we did, but as last season was without parachute payments they had cut their cloth. Villa another planet of course. Our wage bill growth has been substantial year on year. Possibly Forrest could beat it as a non parachute club. Others were cutting back whilst we were spending. Leeds surely rose somewhat in 2018/19- higher than us I'd have thought? Derby and Sheffield Wednesday have seemed quite high payers, though again this is a snapshot in time- we don't know what excellent work they did bringing it down last season- ahem! The Norwich figure I've seen multiple- one site said ti was £25m, whereas Off the Pitch said it was a little over £50m! I struggle to see how you more than halve your wage bill in one season but...then again £12.2m of that 2017/18 figure was impairment so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledAjax Posted October 29, 2019 Report Share Posted October 29, 2019 2 minutes ago, JonDolman said: Pereira fee is agreed at 5.5 isn't it? Seems a bit high, though he does look very good for a 21 year old. I think Brownhill goes for about 15 next summer. Dasilva could be worth a fortune when he improves imo. Hes england under 21 left back, and kept Kelly out most of last season. Notoriously difficult to predict fees and I was deliberately being conservative in that post. Agree Dasilva could easily be astronomical if he stays fit and in the England set up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickolas Posted October 29, 2019 Report Share Posted October 29, 2019 Well Massengo is off to Chelsea in the summer for £30m+ apparently so we are well sorted for another year or two........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 29, 2019 Report Share Posted October 29, 2019 1 minute ago, ExiledAjax said: Notoriously difficult to predict fees and I was deliberately being conservative in that post. Agree Dasilva could easily be astronomical if he stays fit and in the England set up. Let's not forget percentage of profits for future player sales. Big money to be made there. Let's hope Webster and Kelly improve enough to one day be the next VVDs or Harry Maguire's! Also hoping Eisa keeps banging them in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanterne Rouge Posted October 29, 2019 Report Share Posted October 29, 2019 4 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said: Notoriously difficult to predict fees and I was deliberately being conservative in that post. Agree Dasilva could easily be astronomical if he stays fit and in the England set up. The other biggie could be Taylor Moore if he continues to progress at the rate he is now. Young, English, ball playing CBs are much sought after. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted October 29, 2019 Report Share Posted October 29, 2019 1 hour ago, Mr Popodopolous said: Excellent!! Think the Kelly sale fell into the 2018/19 season too- if it was before May 31st 2019, it definitely should've. Yes, covered in the strategic report paragraphs. 1 hour ago, WolfOfWestStreet said: Have i read this correctly. Unless we sell 25 million pounds worth of players we don't break even? Yep, what myself and the likes of Mr P have been bleating one about for a while. I was pretty close with some of my estimates earlier this season. Although income £5m more than I guessed (£30m rather than £25m), operating expenses up (£15m rather than £10m). Amortisation I was spot on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bristol Rob Posted October 29, 2019 Author Report Share Posted October 29, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerseybean Posted October 29, 2019 Report Share Posted October 29, 2019 8 minutes ago, Bristol Rob said: Looks like Sir Steve has enjoyed some sunshine recently Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRock Posted October 29, 2019 Report Share Posted October 29, 2019 3 minutes ago, Jerseybean said: Looks like Sir Steve has enjoyed some sunshine recently ...or been on the cider. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanterne Rouge Posted October 29, 2019 Report Share Posted October 29, 2019 I wonder what the g*s profit is for last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronnie Sinclair Posted October 29, 2019 Report Share Posted October 29, 2019 3 minutes ago, Lanterne Rouge said: I wonder what the g*s profit is for last year. they've been doing a roaring trade on sales of stale crisps, Fanta and pasties and circus tent hire - therefore they can't be short of a few quid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanterne Rouge Posted October 29, 2019 Report Share Posted October 29, 2019 2 minutes ago, Ronnie Sinclair said: they've been doing a roaring trade on sales of stale crisps, Fanta and pasties and circus tent hire - therefore they can't be short of a few quid I`m sure that, whatever it is, it will more than cover the cost of their new stadium Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bristol Rob Posted October 29, 2019 Author Report Share Posted October 29, 2019 Only a matter of time before the Fewers state that with a new tent they too could make a similar profit. However, I'm sure they'll be more focused on the money that has been spent in previous years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Up The City! Posted October 29, 2019 Report Share Posted October 29, 2019 33 minutes ago, Bristol Rob said: I'm wondering why they choose to include a model of the next stage of development in shot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted October 29, 2019 Report Share Posted October 29, 2019 29 minutes ago, Ronnie Sinclair said: they've been doing a roaring trade on sales of stale crisps, Fanta and pasties and circus tent hire - therefore they can't be short of a few quid They take a cut of Babestation phonecalls too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanterne Rouge Posted October 29, 2019 Report Share Posted October 29, 2019 3 minutes ago, Davefevs said: They take a cut of Babestation phonecalls too. But you have to offset the cost of carpet cleaning that`s needed after they`ve made them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downendcity Posted October 29, 2019 Report Share Posted October 29, 2019 42 minutes ago, Lanterne Rouge said: I wonder what the g*s profit is for last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanterne Rouge Posted October 29, 2019 Report Share Posted October 29, 2019 1 minute ago, downendcity said: That much? A great year for them then, best for ages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downendcity Posted October 29, 2019 Report Share Posted October 29, 2019 Just now, Lanterne Rouge said: That much? A great year for them then, best for ages. That was before costs have been deducted though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanterne Rouge Posted October 29, 2019 Report Share Posted October 29, 2019 22 minutes ago, downendcity said: That was before costs have been deducted though! That season ticket must be getting passed through the fence more times than we thought then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
054123 Posted October 29, 2019 Report Share Posted October 29, 2019 2 hours ago, ExiledAjax said: It must be an area where we can have an edge over clubs like, for example Brentford, Fulham, Blackburn. We've basically got the premier corporate and summer concert facility in Bristol, the country's 8th (IIRC) largest city. I can't remember the clubs I've mentioned being able to put on the concerts or World Cup stuff that Ashton Gate did last season. Credit to the stadium team for really pushing this side forward. The exclusive catchment area is far greater, we’ll in excess of 1m people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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