Our striker problems - try Kasey up top?

[Midred]

1 hour ago, JonDolman said:

So far I don't think he's shown he can do it on his own. He doesn't look quick enough to play on the shoulder and get onto through balls and he doesn't look strong enough to hold it up.

He's more of a partner for a number 9 like Afobe imo.

What was the formation at the beginning of last season when Famara was out for six weeks? Weimann seemed to score with ease, 5 - 6 in the first few matches. 

[Guest]

12 minutes ago, Midred said:

What was the formation at the beginning of last season when Famara was out for six weeks? Weimann seemed to score with ease, 5 - 6 in the first few matches. 

4-4-2 mainly I think.

Weimann had 5 in 5 and then went about a dozen games without a goal. He then got moved to right wing for most of the rest of the season.

I think it may be partly to do with Fam's return, and their poor link up as a pair. But there were still about 4 games I think that Weimann played alongside Taylor, even with Fam being fit. And Weimann still didn't score in those games either. 

[Midred]

1 minute ago, JonDolman said:

4-4-2 mainly I think.

Weimann had 5 in 5 and then went about a dozen games without a goal. He then got moved to right wing for most of the rest of the season.

I think it may be partly to do with Fam's return, and their poor link up as a pair. But there were still about 4 games I think that Weimann played alongside Taylor, even with Fam being fit. And Weimann still didn't score in those games either. 

Thanks. I was just wondering?  One of the many anomalies with players at city. I had forgotten about Taylor. (Already!)

[Robbored]

3 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

4-4-2 mainly I think.

It’s always the template of 4-4-2. 
Any team that sets up that way will be able to easily blend into pretty much any other formation. Obviously that will depend on what the opposition are doing and how the game is progressing but teams very rarely stick to a 4-4-2 for a full match but many actually start with it.

[Guest]

Just now, Midred said:

Thanks. I was just wondering?  One of the many anomalies with players at city. I had forgotten about Taylor. (Already!)

I think this season Weimann has been much more consistent so far.

Last season he started off looking like one of the best strikers we've ever had in my lifetime! And then went pretty poor for quite a while.

Then did a decent enough job most games on the right, but offered very little when teams sat back at home. He then had a couple of great games nearer the end of the season up front. But I was expecting more.

So far this season he's been good in most games imo.

[OneTeamInBristol]

1 hour ago, JonDolman said:

He played there loads for Barnsley when they were top half championship side. And played there for us too, so he is, but LJ must not think he's good enough.

He isn’t. He’s a midfielder who has occasionally been utilised as a striker. 

[Davefevs]

6 hours ago, Major Isewater said:

If LJ did this there’d be folks on here criticising him and banging on about ‘ square pegs and round holes etc ‘ 

We have available Weiman, Rodri , Semenyo for Friday night and a strong attacking midfield that should be enough to get something . 
 

4 hours ago, Swede said:

LJ might surprise us with Marley Watkins, definitely worth a shout

He was back in the 18 on Sunday....he’ll come into consideration undoubtedly.  I thought we played better 1st half Sunday than 2nd half, so be happy to see Rodri start with Weimann.  Barnsley play a high line and their midfield aren’t the best at pressing the passer either.  Weimann should be able to get in behind them.

2 hours ago, JonDolman said:

So far I don't think he's shown he can do it on his own. He doesn't look quick enough to play on the shoulder and get onto through balls and he doesn't look strong enough to hold it up.

He's more of a partner for a number 9 like Afobe imo.

Weimann started last season as the main forward with Pato off of him, then Taylor....until Fam served his suspension.  I think he’s capable of playing there as long as other players are given responsibility to join up / get close to him.

I could see a front six of:

Brownhill | Nagy | Massengo

          Palmer | O’Dowda

                Weimann

Think it would help us play through the lines, but also mean a team playing a DM would have two players to worry about.

[Guest]

38 minutes ago, OneTeamInBristol said:

He isn’t. He’s a midfielder who has occasionally been utilised as a striker. 

He played as a striker loads for Barnsley and probably about half his games for Norwich were as a striker too. 

He is a winger on either side or striker.

[Davefevs]

9 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

He played as a striker loads for Barnsley and probably about half his games for Norwich were as a striker too. 

He is a winger on either side or striker.

Whilst at Barnsley when they played a 433, I’d call him a “wide forward”, (who can also play central).  And of course he can play as an orthodox winger too.

In short he a player who can play anywhere along the forward line.

[DT The Optimist]

11 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Whilst at Barnsley when they played a 433, I’d call him a “wide forward”, (who can also play central).  And of course he can play as an orthodox winger too.

In short he a player who can play anywhere along the forward line.

See how RODRI pans out, he has been signed and will get some time to show if he can perform at this level.  Did not show a lot to excite v Wigan, but then he had no  real service.  Cannot write him off yet, but I still fancy Watkins might come good as a make shift forward.  

[Davefevs]

1 minute ago, DT The Optimist said:

See how RODRI pans out, he has been signed and will get some time to show if he can perform at this level.  Did not show a lot to excite v Wigan, but then he had no  real service.  Cannot write him off yet, but I still fancy Watkins might come good as a make shift forward.  

Yeah, said a few posts up I’d be happy to see Rodri and Weimann again.

[Guest]

34 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

He was back in the 18 on Sunday....he’ll come into consideration undoubtedly.  I thought we played better 1st half Sunday than 2nd half, so be happy to see Rodri start with Weimann.  Barnsley play a high line and their midfield aren’t the best at pressing the passer either.  Weimann should be able to get in behind them.

Weimann started last season as the main forward with Pato off of him, then Taylor....until Fam served his suspension.  I think he’s capable of playing there as long as other players are given responsibility to join up / get close to him.

I could see a front six of:

Brownhill | Nagy | Massengo

          Palmer | O’Dowda

                Weimann

Think it would help us play through the lines, but also mean a team playing a DM would have two players to worry about.

Yeah you're right. Forgot it was Pato playing up top. I remember seeing Shrewsbury friendly and thinking nothing is sticking up top at all, surely those 2 can't be our strike force. 

And we seemed to move away from that after the diamond and Marley Watkins experiment against Boro, where I actually think it kind of looked promising. But had absolutely no width on the left side of the pitch from Pisano staying back, plus being right footed, along with a defensive midfielder in Smith also being on that side.

There were promising signs in some games with Weimann and Taylor. I think Taylor was the right type of striker to partner Weimann, and in that 442 system, but just not at the required level.

22 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Whilst at Barnsley when they played a 433, I’d call him a “wide forward”, (who can also play central).  And of course he can play as an orthodox winger too.

In short he a player who can play anywhere along the forward line.

I think most of the time in the championship they played a very straight forward 442 high pressing. Barnsley were a very entertaining team for a while. 

There was a lot of rotation between Kent, Watkins and Hammil in wide areas, and rotation between Watkins, Winnall, Bradshaw and Armstrong in the front 2.

The relentless high pressing really seemed to suit Watkins game, and he was so good there that season.

[Davefevs]

3 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

Yeah you're right. Forgot it was Pato playing up top. I remember seeing Shrewsbury friendly and thinking nothing is sticking up top at all, surely those 2 can't be our strike force. 

And we seemed to move away from that after the diamond and Marley Watkins experiment against Boro, where I actually think it kind of looked promising. But had absolutely no width on the left side of the pitch from Pisano staying back, plus being right footed, along with a defensive midfielder in Smith also being on that side.

There were promising signs in some games with Weimann and Taylor. I think Taylor was the right type of striker to partner Weimann, and in that 442 system, but just not at the required level.

Yep...my view of last season was we started playing some interesting stuff, trying to play, because Fam was suspended.

However it changed away to West Brom.  We started on fire, had 3 v.good chances in opening 5 minutes....then we got exposed regularly....maybe not a surprise...Harvey Barnes, Dwight Gayle, Jay Rodriguez, Matt Phillips etc....and lost 4-2.

LJ coined the “Pack needs to play in the cage” stifling him in future games.

Diedhiou having come on as sub, scored, and then began to start regularly.  And we lost that pairing of Weimann with either Pato or Taylor....and eventually Weimann was shunted wide.

We still had a good season, but I think we rarely played the attractive football we’d developed in 17/18 and started 18/19 with.

[steviestevieneville]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

He was back in the 18 on Sunday....he’ll come into consideration undoubtedly.  I thought we played better 1st half Sunday than 2nd half, so be happy to see Rodri start with Weimann.  Barnsley play a high line and their midfield aren’t the best at pressing the passer either.  Weimann should be able to get in behind them.

Weimann started last season as the main forward with Pato off of him, then Taylor....until Fam served his suspension.  I think he’s capable of playing there as long as other players are given responsibility to join up / get close to him.

I could see a front six of:

Brownhill | Nagy | Massengo

          Palmer | O’Dowda

                Weimann

Think it would help us play through the lines, but also mean a team playing a DM would have two players to worry about.

Watched them against Brentford and the high line was ridiculous , Brentford got in behind constantly. Haven’t seen them since the change in manager. Do they still play such a high line ? 

[Davefevs]

1 minute ago, steviestevieneville said:

Watched them against Brentford and the high line was ridiculous , Brentford got in behind constantly. Haven’t seen them since the change in manager. Do they still play such a high line ? 

Saw that too....it was shocking.

Gone back to a back 3/5, but still high line.

[steviestevieneville]

9 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Saw that too....it was shocking.

Gone back to a back 3/5, but still high line.

Thanks Dave 

[Crackers Corner]

9 hours ago, Carey 6 said:

Don't think it would work, he's not used to making the runs, he's the one trying to pick them out. I also don't think he's a very good finisher. 

I'd stick with Rodri tomorrow. He's at least getting the odd chance which is more than can be said for the likes of Taylor/Semenyo. 

 

 

Agree, Rodri should get better as he gets match sharpness back. 

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Yep...my view of last season was we started playing some interesting stuff, trying to play, because Fam was suspended.

However it changed away to West Brom.  We started on fire, had 3 v.good chances in opening 5 minutes....then we got exposed regularly....maybe not a surprise...Harvey Barnes, Dwight Gayle, Jay Rodriguez, Matt Phillips etc....and lost 4-2.

LJ coined the “Pack needs to play in the cage” stifling him in future games.

Diedhiou having come on as sub, scored, and then began to start regularly.  And we lost that pairing of Weimann with either Pato or Taylor....and eventually Weimann was shunted wide.

We still had a good season, but I think we rarely played the attractive football we’d developed in 17/18 and started 18/19 with.

Yep. I thought the WBA game was a superb game that we dominated much of. We were superb going forward. I remember people saying it was individual mistakes that cost us and I really did not agree with that. It is hard to cope with that attacking talent and pace on the break without having more numbers back there. We went toe to toe and they had the better class to score when attacking the spaces we left.

I think that 4141 formation had to happen when it did. Even if Weimann had formed a decent partnership with Taylor, I remember saying regularly on here that we needed an extra body in midfield. I think we went to that system away at Ipswich mid game, and improved massively when we did and won the game 3-2.

I think that was the start of the 15 game unbeaten run where we continued with that system. It's a system that does not suit Weimann perfectly, but I think it probably does suit Fam, even if he doesn't score so many. I think he does have a much more effective role in the side when he is up there on his own occupying the centre backs.

I will be wrong if Fam ever forms a great partnership with anyone. I had hoped the 3412 formation may be the answer. Having a link player in behind Fam and Weimann may get those 2 working better. But then the problem is that player is Palmer who is looking to thread the ball through, and that does not suit Fam at all.

It might be that Brownhill or even O'Dowda may work better in behind Fam and Weimann. A runner and all action player rather than a creator like Palmer. There were even glimpses of Massengo being that kind of player in his home debut against QPR with the energy and runs he made into the box.

Whatever options there may still be that include Fam, it seems pretty clear that Weimann and even more so Palmer don't play to their full potential with Fam in the side with them.

Going back to the Palmer up front idea, I just worry about his movement and work rate up there. It's frustrating because he has everything else technically and physically to play up front.

[Davefevs]

Lots to agree with there JD.

[1960maaan]

I did wonder about KP just off of Weimann in a 4-2-3-1 sort of set up.

                              Nagy - Massengo/Rowe

                           Brownhill - Palmer - ODowda

                                           Weimann 

My theory being that the 2 defensive MF's would give the 3 AMF's a little more licence , and COD and Brownhill have good movement and could exploit the space wide , swapping positions with AW a little like Pato and Reid used to. Could then switch to more attacking players for certain games. KP needs movement ahead of him to bring out his best, ATM we lack that .

[Agard Days Night]

19 hours ago, bengalcub said:

Wiemanns got the same work rate.

But none of the same impact.