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Reflections on last night and the bigger picture


ChippenhamRed

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7 minutes ago, BTRFTG said:

Mid-table budget? Compare and contrast similar teams over the period, make allowance for parachute payments AND quality of personnel amassed and we've squandered a fortune the likes of which other clubs who did get to the Premier could only dream of. We sell players to balance the books BECAUSE WE HAVE TO as they failed to deliver the Premier pot of gold sought. Much of the ragbag of so-called talent WeeLee has amassed delivers an operational loss upward of £26m a year. So who's delivering the £35m of sales we'll need again this year?

The Stadium is an irrelevance, it's not owned by the football club and they do not directly have vested interest in the asset. It plays no part in City's ability to keep trading other than it exists and we have access to it. AG has signally been funded wholly by Pula Sports most generous benefactor.

At the date of last account our P&L account stood at -£123.6m! Repeat, the football club is £123.6m in debt.

Mid-table my a**e.      

https://www.transferleague.co.uk/championship-teams-last-five-seasons/transfer-league-tables/championship-last-five-season

....decidedly mid-table.

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The one concerning thing (which others have mentioned) is the supposed style/identity LJ keeps going on about. 2 years ago we had a fast paced, high tempo team which earned us plaudits , especially in the cup run.
But things have changed over past 2 seasons and where we do probably have a stronger starting 11 and general squad, our style has become somewhat more laboured/controlled at times, and reliant more on quick breaks, hence struggling with home games because more teams sit back and expect us to push forward. 

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1 hour ago, Spoons said:

Just imagine if you're Steve or Maggie landsown reading the rubbish on that match day thread last night. Must think why do I bother.

You do realise that Maggie posts on here as AshtonGreat  :)

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14 minutes ago, Spoons said:

Yeah......all that money there making????

No, there not making money, if city did reach the premier league the asset they would own including all land and property and sporting clubs, would see them right.

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2 minutes ago, ChippenhamRed said:

Ah, now I understand how you reach your considered conclusions, both performance and financial.

So we're mid-table, not compared to all teams over the period but those only presently in the Championship. Spend liability is limited to that paid and received for players, not other costs in acquiring them or, ahem, the much larger sums funding their actual liabilities. Not sure how these figures account for write downs? You'll hear of free, loan or 'cheap' transfers.  I hope you're sitting down because 'nil cost they ain't' and we've used dozens of them and they aren't reported in your table. Ignore costs associated with developing own talent which may produce sales.

Or you could compare actual spend over the period, adjust for The Premier bias and see where we are then. Mid-table it ain't.

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7 minutes ago, Maesknoll Red said:

Wasn’t he referring to the Lansdown’s being ‘seen right’ if City get to the Prem.

Football revenues would go to the football club, hopefully to pay down the £123.6m it owes..

Lansdown will never, ever get back anywhere near what he's 'invested', not he's bothered as he's not in it to make money .... 

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Just now, BTRFTG said:

Football revenues would go to the football club, hopefully to pay down the £123.6m it owes..

Lansdown will never, ever get back anywhere near what he's 'invested', not he's bothered as he's not in it to make money .... 

Apologies.
I’ll get the violin back out.

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2 hours ago, ChippenhamRed said:

Just looking again at last night’s match thread and the en-mass overreaction to the performance, “Johnson out” calls and generally ridiculous statements about how terrible we are and how we’ll never achieve anything.

I’ll start by saying I agree about the performance. While I don’t believe we should assume to best anyone in this division - especially this division! - we should of course have seen the game out. We played poorly throughout and our game management was poor.

But I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again - some people really need to find some perspective on where we are as a club, how far we’ve come, and what we might still achieve.

Only six years ago we tumbled out of this division and our club was an absolute shambles. Just over four years ago we were still playing in the third tier. For five consecutive seasons now we have improved our league position - the only team in the entire football league who can claim this. All the while working with a midtable budget and selling our better players to balance the books. Oh, and we also rebuilt our stadium.

Today we are 5th in the Championship. Yes, we might drop down today. But we have lost twice in 15 games. All this despite injuries to Nagy, Smith, Afobe, Kalas and Dasilva. All first team starters. Last night we were also without Famara. Any side - particularly one in the second tier - would miss that much quality. It is remarkable that we are where we are without them.

Its also ridiculous to say that if we don’t beat Barnsley how can we hope to finish in the top six. It simply doesn’t work like that. Throughout a 46 game season you will win games you don’t expect to and lose games you don’t expect to. Our performance level will vary. The same goes for all teams.

I’m not pretending everything is perfect. Clearly recent performances have been disappointing. We are not entertaining enough at home. But look at that quality we have to come back in, and look where we are. Things have been an awful lot worse.

Well said...

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8 minutes ago, BTRFTG said:

Football revenues would go to the football club, hopefully to pay down the £123.6m it owes..

Lansdown will never, ever get back anywhere near what he's 'invested', not he's bothered as he's not in it to make money .... 

Quite, but some folk don’t believe that and think he is in it for some huge return.  

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25 minutes ago, BTRFTG said:

Ah, now I understand how you reach your considered conclusions, both performance and financial.

So we're mid-table, not compared to all teams over the period but those only presently in the Championship. Spend liability is limited to that paid and received for players, not other costs in acquiring them or, ahem, the much larger sums funding their actual liabilities. Not sure how these figures account for write downs? You'll hear of free, loan or 'cheap' transfers.  I hope you're sitting down because 'nil cost they ain't' and we've used dozens of them and they aren't reported in your table. Ignore costs associated with developing own talent which may produce sales.

Or you could compare actual spend over the period, adjust for The Premier bias and see where we are then. Mid-table it ain't.

I have no idea what you’re on about frankly, you’ve introduced a 1000 variables and I’ve no idea how you can collate all those variables for all clubs and draw conclusions that we don’t have a mid-table budget when compared to everyone else. Some actual evidence to support all this conjecture would be good.

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59 minutes ago, spudski said:

 

I think LJ is a good Coach and what we are trying to do is commendable. I approve of our approach and the way we work. However...like every team in this division, nothing is perfect. Every team has it's flaws. Results wise... we've done incredible considering the injuries. Performance wise...a lot to be desired. We imo have no leaders...no one on the pitch taking responsibility when under the kosh...

The worst decision for me was making Brownhill Captain. He isn't a leader. He isn't the man in the team you look for when the going gets tough. His Captaincy imo is a reflection of how the team perform. In other words...very pleasant chap.

I look at Weimann, Eliasson, Odowda, Palmer, Semenyo....as a collective, they just don't fit as a combination of players that work naturally as a unit. They are all strong individuals and 'specialists' at what they do individually. I look at all of them and wouldn't have any of them in a team together. Individually with 'team' players around them...but never in a combined element. 

That's why it always looks so disjointed offensively to me...all doing their own thing. It's like water and oil...none mixing well together.

A side built in his own image

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1 hour ago, Super said:

The problem is that LJ isnt learning. His formations and decisions are muddled every game. Taking Moore off last night was stupid how many managers swap CB's in a game when they arent injured?

It’s certainly not the usual thing when you’re ahead and trying to close out the game.  The new player hasn’t had 70 minutes of experiencing his opponent like Moore had.  I was surprised.  Bring on Baker as an extra defender like Boro last season, by all means.

We didn’t play well, we lost a 2-0 lead, in injury time.  Bloody frustrating.

The more pressing issue is the way we are playing.  We’ve been off the mark for a few games now.  We e haven’t been crap, but we’ve not been great by any stretch of the imagination.

I do wonder whether it’s time to pick a system and stick with it.  The changing of system game to game and during game can’t help our cohesiveness.  If our patterns of play are so intricate, don’t complicate it by having too many systems.

Time for a few players to step-up and contribute more.  A few, despite flashes in games, are on the periphery with and without the ball.  I don’t think it’s lack of effort per se, I just think it’s probably where they are as players at this level.  In fairness, Watkins came in and imho took his chance.  He’s not Afobe, but him and Weimann gave us a hold in the game last night.

We are a “sum of the parts” team, and when one or two fall below the level, the team doesn’t function.

Its a problem Lee needs to solve.  It’s definitely not Johnson out....we are in a v.good position, but there is a sense that we are hanging in there, rather than pushing on.  Hopefully with Kalas back, Nagy and Smith close(ish), we can kick on.

I think any reaction on the MTD (I haven’t read it) is made up of frustration of:

  • not holding onto a 2-0 lead
  • not our automatic right to beat bottom of the league at their place ?
  • not taking our opportunity to go joint top
  • couple the above with not winning v Wigan
  • and a couple of poor performances at Luton and part of Charlton

Not sure whether it’s a good time to be playing Cardiff next or not....probably not from a fans point of view.

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19 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

It’s certainly not the usual thing when you’re ahead and trying to close out the game.  The new player hasn’t had 70 minutes of experiencing his opponent like Moore had.  I was surprised.  Bring on Baker as an extra defender like Boro last season, by all means.

We didn’t play well, we lost a 2-0 lead, in injury time.  Bloody frustrating.

The more pressing issue is the way we are playing.  We’ve been off the mark for a few games now.  We e haven’t been crap, but we’ve not been great by any stretch of the imagination.

I do wonder whether it’s time to pick a system and stick with it.  The changing of system game to game and during game can’t help our cohesiveness.  If our patterns of play are so intricate, don’t complicate it by having too many systems.

Time for a few players to step-up and contribute more.  A few, despite flashes in games, are on the periphery with and without the ball.  I don’t think it’s lack of effort per se, I just think it’s probably where they are as players at this level.  In fairness, Watkins came in and imho took his chance.  He’s not Afobe, but him and Weimann gave us a hold in the game last night.

We are a “sum of the parts” team, and when one or two fall below the level, the team doesn’t function.

Its a problem Lee needs to solve.  It’s definitely not Johnson out....we are in a v.good position, but there is a sense that we are hanging in there, rather than pushing on.  Hopefully with Kalas back, Nagy and Smith close(ish), we can kick on.

I think any reaction on the MTD (I haven’t read it) is made up of frustration of:

  • not holding onto a 2-0 lead
  • not our automatic right to beat bottom of the league at their place ?
  • not taking our opportunity to go joint top
  • couple the above with not winning v Wigan
  • and a couple of poor performances at Luton and part of Charlton

Not sure whether it’s a good time to be playing Cardiff next or not....probably not from a fans point of view.

The problem we have with Weimann is as the pundits said yesterday...'its all well and good having energy and making runs, but it's runs and movement into the correct areas... it's useless otherwise'.

And I agree with him...it's ok at set pieces when he's in the box, but he spends too much time in the channels wide.

Our rwb and offensive midfielders should be running into those spaces.

As a striker... he's in a non striking position.

He actually mostly plays as a wide forward imo.

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8 minutes ago, spudski said:

The problem we have with Weimann is as the pundits said yesterday...'its all well and good having energy and making runs, but it's runs and movement into the correct areas... it's useless otherwise'.

And I agree with him...it's ok at set pieces when he's in the box, but he spends too much time in the channels wide.

Our rwb and offensive midfielders should be running into those spaces.

As a striker... he's in a non striking position.

He actually mostly plays as a wide forward imo.

I know what you’re saying, but his runs are in-to-out, start centrally and bend runs down the sides of the CBs or behind the FBs.  At Champ level, straight runs behind the CBs is likely to be fruitless.  I think part of the problem is not Weimann per se, but finding a partner that those runs benefit the team, and his forward partner.  In an ideal world Diedhiou would be that partner, as Benteke was for him at Villa in that purple patch they had together....but it just doesn’t work.  I thought him and Watkins did a good job, and Watkins was a useful person to gave in our own box.

Frustrated this morning but not down.

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11 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I know what you’re saying, but his runs are in-to-out, start centrally and bend runs down the sides of the CBs or behind the FBs.  At Champ level, straight runs behind the CBs is likely to be fruitless.  I think part of the problem is not Weimann per se, but finding a partner that those runs benefit the team, and his forward partner.  In an ideal world Diedhiou would be that partner, as Benteke was for him at Villa in that purple patch they had together....but it just doesn’t work.  I thought him and Watkins did a good job, and Watkins was a useful person to gave in our own box.

Frustrated this morning but not down.

I'd be playing him centrally and telling him not to go wider than the 18 yard box.

Running as he does towards the corner flag is so easy to defend against. He gets it and it more often than not comes back to the Rwb...and he's left in no man land and ineffective. 

So many balls are going straight down the channels...we create so few angles.

We are becoming a team that runs a lot, dribbles, drawing free kicks and relying on them and corners to create scoring chances. Hardly anything from open play.

Last night looked like a Warnock team playing. Bloody ugly.

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8 minutes ago, spudski said:

I'd be playing him centrally and telling him not to go wider than the 18 yard box.

that’s fine theoretically, but in practice it isn’t.

Running as he does towards the corner flag is so easy to defend against. He gets it and it more often than not comes back to the Rwb...and he's left in no man land and ineffective.

and we are 50 yards further up the pitch.  It’s the runs Reid (and Kodjia) used to make in 17/18 where we’d push up and suck the life out of teams, but we also had the likes of our LM - Joe Bryan hitting the box to make up for Reid being down in the corner, Brownhill making the second run in the space vacated.  It needs desire to squeeze in behind, close the spaces so that your footballers can pass shorter once in their final third.  It needs understanding, it needs to be done as a team.

So many balls are going straight down the channels...we create so few angles.

there is a laziness of players and lack of bravery to create angles to receive passes in midfield.  Hoping Nagy brings that back to our midfield.

We are becoming a team that runs a lot, dribbles, drawing free kicks and relying on them and corners to create scoring chances. Hardly anything from open play.

agree....it’s not pretty.

Last night looked like a Warnock team playing. Bloody ugly.

yes, we don’t want to pass short.  But I think chopping and changing isn't helping.

 

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3 hours ago, Super said:

The problem is that LJ isnt learning. His formations and decisions are muddled every game. Taking Moore off last night was stupid how many managers swap CB's in a game when they arent injured?

It is possible that Moore is carrying a knock .

He jarred his knee quite badly v Wigan I think .

We don’t have all the facts , just maybe we could cut LJ a little slack ?

 

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I guess last nights result was a kind of karma.  City beat Charlton with 98min winner and drew last night by conceding with just 45secs left........It happens in pretty much every sport.

Disappointing tho it was  City are still handily placed in the top six, have lost only twice in 15 games. That said the negative overreaction to drawing on otib having been 0-2 up is so predictable.........don’t these posters realise that nothing is won in November?

 

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31 minutes ago, Major Isewater said:

It is possible that Moore is carrying a knock .

He jarred his knee quite badly v Wigan I think .

We don’t have all the facts , just maybe we could cut LJ a little slack ?

 

Er he subs him all the time.

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1 minute ago, GasDestroyer said:

All the doomsday merchants on here also need to remember where we were in 1982. I was at the Newport away game when we all thought this was going to be the last game played by BCFC. FFS support the club. Rome was not built in a day!!!!

 

very true, one bad game, move on.

1 minute ago, GasDestroyer said:

All the doomsday merchants on here also need to remember where we were in 1982. I was at the Newport away game when we all thought this was going to be the last game played by BCFC. FFS support the club. Rome was not built in a day!!!!

 

1,000 post my brother

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