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Reflections on last night and the bigger picture


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10 minutes ago, ChippenhamRed said:

Just looking again at last night’s match thread and the en-mass overreaction to the performance, “Johnson out” calls and generally ridiculous statements about how terrible we are and how we’ll never achieve anything.

I’ll start by saying I agree about the performance. While I don’t believe we should assume to best anyone in this division - especially this division! - we should of course have seen the game out. We played poorly throughout and our game management was poor.

But I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again - some people really need to find some perspective on where we are as a club, how far we’ve come, and what we might still achieve.

Only six years ago we tumbled out of this division and our club was an absolute shambles. Just over four years ago we were still playing in the third tier. For five consecutive seasons now we have improved our league position - the only team in the entire football league who can claim this. All the while working with a midtable budget and selling our better players to balance the books. Oh, and we also rebuilt our stadium.

Today we are 5th in the Championship. Yes, we might drop down today. But we have lost twice in 15 games. All this despite injuries to Nagy, Smith, Afobe, Kalas and Dasilva. All first team starters. Last night we were also without Famara. Any side - particularly one in the second tier - would miss that much quality. It is remarkable that we are where we are without them.

Its also ridiculous to say that if we don’t beat Barnsley how can we hope to finish in the top six. It simply doesn’t work like that. Throughout a 46 game season you will win games you don’t expect to and lose games you don’t expect to. Our performance level will vary. The same goes for all teams.

I’m not pretending everything is perfect. Clearly recent performances have been disappointing. We are not entertaining enough at home. But look at that quality we have to come back in, and look where we are. Things have been an awful lot worse.

The voice of reason , you do realise this is OTIB don’t you ? 
 

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15 minutes ago, ChippenhamRed said:

Just looking again at last night’s match thread and the en-mass overreaction to the performance, “Johnson out” calls and generally ridiculous statements about how terrible we are and how we’ll never achieve anything.

I’ll start by saying I agree about the performance. While I don’t believe we should assume to best anyone in this division - especially this division! - we should of course have seen the game out. We played poorly throughout and our game management was poor.

But I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again - some people really need to find some perspective on where we are as a club, how far we’ve come, and what we might still achieve.

Only six years ago we tumbled out of this division and our club was an absolute shambles. Just over four years ago we were still playing in the third tier. For five consecutive seasons now we have improved our league position - the only team in the entire football league who can claim this. All the while working with a midtable budget and selling our better players to balance the books. Oh, and we also rebuilt our stadium.

Today we are 5th in the Championship. Yes, we might drop down today. But we have lost twice in 15 games. All this despite injuries to Nagy, Smith, Afobe, Kalas and Dasilva. All first team starters. Last night we were also without Famara. Any side - particularly one in the second tier - would miss that much quality. It is remarkable that we are where we are without them.

Its also ridiculous to say that if we don’t beat Barnsley how can we hope to finish in the top six. It simply doesn’t work like that. Throughout a 46 game season you will win games you don’t expect to and lose games you don’t expect to. Our performance level will vary. The same goes for all teams.

I’m not pretending everything is perfect. Clearly recent performances have been disappointing. We are not entertaining enough at home. But look at that quality we have to come back in, and look where we are. Things have been an awful lot worse.

Oh, give it a rest with your sensible views & common sense outlook. People like you, that see things with a sense of realism & calmness do my head in. What’s wrong with you? 😉 COYR 

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14 minutes ago, ChippenhamRed said:

Just looking again at last night’s match thread and the en-mass overreaction to the performance, “Johnson out” calls and generally ridiculous statements about how terrible we are and how we’ll never achieve anything.

I’ll start by saying I agree about the performance. While I don’t believe we should assume to best anyone in this division - especially this division! - we should of course have seen the game out. We played poorly throughout and our game management was poor.

But I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again - some people really need to find some perspective on where we are as a club, how far we’ve come, and what we might still achieve.

Only six years ago we tumbled out of this division and our club was an absolute shambles. Just over four years ago we were still playing in the third tier. For five consecutive seasons now we have improved our league position - the only team in the entire football league who can claim this. All the while working with a midtable budget and selling our better players to balance the books. Oh, and we also rebuilt our stadium.

Today we are 5th in the Championship. Yes, we might drop down today. But we have lost twice in 15 games. All this despite injuries to Nagy, Smith, Afobe, Kalas and Dasilva. All first team starters. Last night we were also without Famara. Any side - particularly one in the second tier - would miss that much quality. It is remarkable that we are where we are without them.

Its also ridiculous to say that if we don’t beat Barnsley how can we hope to finish in the top six. It simply doesn’t work like that. Throughout a 46 game season you will win games you don’t expect to and lose games you don’t expect to. Our performance level will vary. The same goes for all teams.

I’m not pretending everything is perfect. Clearly recent performances have been disappointing. We are not entertaining enough at home. But look at that quality we have to come back in, and look where we are. Things have been an awful lot worse.

Haven't read the match day thread since the result. I can guess the reactions.

I agree with what you've said.

We are improving every season, both on and off the field.

My biggest concern...is we've fallen into that trap of becoming a 'typical' Championship side. We've consolidated...but we now play like the majority of teams in this division.

Talk of 'Identity'...we no longer have one.

Pundits and other fans used to purr about our type of football. As the pundits implied last night...we now grind out results against the run of play.

You can blame injuries...I get that.

But we really look like a bunch of individuals playing when playing offensively. It really is very poor standard.

What are we...a passing side, a head down and run side, a dribbling side, a crossing side etc etc...all put in very simple lay man's terms...but we seem to be like Barrett all sorts offensively.

It just doesn't make for good watching. I was cringing last night...so, so poor.

 

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18 minutes ago, Spoons said:

Just imagine if you're Steve or Maggie landsown reading the rubbish on that match day thread last night. Must think why do I bother.

I think they would look at the asset portfolio and soon to be 100% shareholding and think ‘when all is said and done, we won’t have come out of this too bad’

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3 minutes ago, spudski said:

Haven't read the match day thread since the result. I can guess the reactions.

I agree with what you've said.

We are improving every season, both on and off the field.

My biggest concern...is we've fallen into that trap of becoming a 'typical' Championship side. We've consolidated...but we now play like the majority of teams in this division.

Talk of 'Identity'...we no longer have one.

Pundits and other fans used to purr about our type of football. As the pundits implied last night...we now grind out results against the run of play.

You can blame injuries...I get that.

But we really look like a bunch of individuals playing when playing offensively. It really is very poor standard.

What are we...a passing side, a head down and run side, a dribbling side, a crossing side etc etc...all put in very simple lay man's terms...but we seem to be like Barrett all sorts offensively.

It just doesn't make for good watching. I was cringing last night...so, so poor.

 

Completely echoes how I feel. In the last few games it has struck me more and more that there is little fluidity to our play, whereas our opponents have seemed to have a much more identifiable playing style. Last night it was often difficult to see what we were trying to do with the ball and we rarely looked like opening them up. 

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14 minutes ago, RedDave said:

A lot of fans don’t know what they are talking about. Anyone saying ‘Johnson Out’ falls into that category. 

 

 

12 minutes ago, AshtonGreat said:

I agree Dave, but surely this post belongs in the Politics section? 

But that would mean the fans DO know what they're talking about.

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24 minutes ago, ChippenhamRed said:

Is that what I said? Try engaging your brain.

Bud, fans are always gonna let out emotional outbursts at those times and give off overreactions. I reckon a large amount of them feel different about the result this morning. 

Right back at you. 

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24 minutes ago, spudski said:

Haven't read the match day thread since the result. I can guess the reactions.

I agree with what you've said.

We are improving every season, both on and off the field.

My biggest concern...is we've fallen into that trap of becoming a 'typical' Championship side. We've consolidated...but we now play like the majority of teams in this division.

Talk of 'Identity'...we no longer have one.

Pundits and other fans used to purr about our type of football. As the pundits implied last night...we now grind out results against the run of play.

You can blame injuries...I get that.

But we really look like a bunch of individuals playing when playing offensively. It really is very poor standard.

What are we...a passing side, a head down and run side, a dribbling side, a crossing side etc etc...all put in very simple lay man's terms...but we seem to be like Barrett all sorts offensively.

It just doesn't make for good watching. I was cringing last night...so, so poor.

 

well said...I was also cringing after that dire, so, so predictable collapse so much so that I called for Johnson to go...giving all the virtue-signalling members of the LJ glee-club the chance they were looking for! Haha. 

...on reflection do I think he should?...well he's not going so it's an academic question.

However I don't think he's good enough. Yet. Maybe never. I've been a manager of large teams of creative people expected to deliver week in and week out. I've done all the talk LJ does about no excuses and no off-days. All that talk means nothing if you can't get your teams to deliver. And too often for me Johnson can't. Does that make him a hopeless case who can never do it on a good day? No. But under pressure my sense is that his teams wilt...and so does he. Last night was a classic of the genre.

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29 minutes ago, spudski said:

Haven't read the match day thread since the result. I can guess the reactions.

I agree with what you've said.

We are improving every season, both on and off the field.

My biggest concern...is we've fallen into that trap of becoming a 'typical' Championship side. We've consolidated...but we now play like the majority of teams in this division.

Talk of 'Identity'...we no longer have one.

Pundits and other fans used to purr about our type of football. As the pundits implied last night...we now grind out results against the run of play.

You can blame injuries...I get that.

But we really look like a bunch of individuals playing when playing offensively. It really is very poor standard.

What are we...a passing side, a head down and run side, a dribbling side, a crossing side etc etc...all put in very simple lay man's terms...but we seem to be like Barrett all sorts offensively.

It just doesn't make for good watching. I was cringing last night...so, so poor.

 

Fair comments Spud. Certainly not saying there aren’t issues and I agree that a lack of definitive playing style is one of them. My hope is that a more settled side with less square pegs in round holes might allow that to emerge. Just feels like we’re having to get by as best we can at the moment.

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Yep the kneejerk brigade were out in force last night!  The main criticism i have is the lack of a cohesive set of tactics/plan.   The outstanding Bentley states in his comments after the game..........." We will go through the video in depth to see what happened and  what we can do better"  I would suggest that he tries to stop kicking long everytime?   I appreciate the conditions made it hard to play out from the back, but without anyone to hold the ball up, we just continually lost possession and put ourselves under pressure.  Also we desperately need to achieve the basics, by accurately passing the ball  to a lot higher standard?  We squandered possession too often.

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10 minutes ago, Super said:

The problem is that LJ isnt learning. His formations and decisions are muddled every game. Taking Moore off last night was stupid how many managers swap CB's in a game when they arent injured?

Maybe having let in a soft header from a corner LJ wanted Baker on for extra height in the set pieces. It certainly didn't work out. I'm tired though of him taking off Moore even when he is having a good game.

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But this all takes away from the fact that in the last two games we have squandered a very realistic possibility of going top of the table.

That is what really pisses me off.  Ok you may say, going top of the table in November means nothing come the end of the season places, but I'd argue it does, it would show the world and his wife that we mean business this season and the confidence it would give to the players would be huge.

Clearly though, if we can only get 2 points off of Wigan and Barnsley then we have no right to think about being top of the table.

I guess these 2 results are a good way of balancing our expectations for the moment.

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1 minute ago, robin_unreliant said:

Maybe having let in a soft header from a corner LJ wanted Baker on for extra height in the set pieces. It certainly didn't work out. I'm tired though of him taking off Moore even when he is having a good game.

It was 0-2 when he was subbed.

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1 hour ago, ChippenhamRed said:

All the while working with a midtable budget and selling our better players to balance the books. Oh, and we also rebuilt our stadium.

Mid-table budget? Compare and contrast similar teams over the period, make allowance for parachute payments AND quality of personnel amassed and we've squandered a fortune the likes of which other clubs who did get to the Premier could only dream of. We sell players to balance the books BECAUSE WE HAVE TO as they failed to deliver the Premier pot of gold sought. Much of the ragbag of so-called talent WeeLee has amassed delivers an operational loss upward of £26m a year. So who's delivering the £35m of sales we'll need again this year?

The Stadium is an irrelevance, it's not owned by the football club and they do not directly have vested interest in the asset. It plays no part in City's ability to keep trading other than it exists and we have access to it. AG has signally been funded wholly by Pula Sports most generous benefactor.

At the date of last account our P&L account stood at -£123.6m! Repeat, the football club is £123.6m in debt.

Mid-table my a**e.      

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24 minutes ago, ChippenhamRed said:

Fair comments Spud. Certainly not saying there aren’t issues and I agree that a lack of definitive playing style is one of them. My hope is that a more settled side with less square pegs in round holes might allow that to emerge. Just feels like we’re having to get by as best we can at the moment.

 

26 minutes ago, Red Exile said:

well said...I was also cringing after that dire, so, so predictable collapse so much so that I called for Johnson to go...giving all the virtue-signalling members of the LJ glee-club the chance they were looking for! Haha. 

...on reflection do I think he should?...well he's not going so it's an academic question.

However I don't think he's good enough. Yet. Maybe never. I've been a manager of large teams of creative people expected to deliver week in and week out. I've done all the talk LJ does about no excuses and no off-days. All that talk means nothing if you can't get your teams to deliver. And too often for me Johnson can't. Does that make him a hopeless case who can never do it on a good day? No. But under pressure my sense is that his teams wilt...and so does he. Last night was a classic of the genre.

I think LJ is a good Coach and what we are trying to do is commendable. I approve of our approach and the way we work. However...like every team in this division, nothing is perfect. Every team has it's flaws. Results wise... we've done incredible considering the injuries. Performance wise...a lot to be desired. We imo have no leaders...no one on the pitch taking responsibility when under the kosh...

The worst decision for me was making Brownhill Captain. He isn't a leader. He isn't the man in the team you look for when the going gets tough. His Captaincy imo is a reflection of how the team perform. In other words...very pleasant chap.

I look at Weimann, Eliasson, Odowda, Palmer, Semenyo....as a collective, they just don't fit as a combination of players that work naturally as a unit. They are all strong individuals and 'specialists' at what they do individually. I look at all of them and wouldn't have any of them in a team together. Individually with 'team' players around them...but never in a combined element. 

That's why it always looks so disjointed offensively to me...all doing their own thing. It's like water and oil...none mixing well together.

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