Brownhill and the injury situation

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, JonDolman said:

Just what I imagine what LJ may do, not what I would do. Certainly would not have Wright right back. But LJ may feel we need as many physical players as possible. But on Wright at right back, he did surprisingly cope ok with many quick wingers, but not saying I would personally do that.

Moore in central midfield, he has played midfield before.

Many examples of centre backs moving into midfield for spells and doing very well. David Luiz at Chelsea under Benitez, Pepe at Real Madrid under Mourinho, Ledley King for Spurs under David Pleat. Dier of course moved into midfield at Spurs having been a centre back. Even Phil Jones had a very successful spell for United in midfield under Fergie! None of them did loads on the ball, just simple passes, but very good protection for others.

It's of course a very different role. I actually thought Adam Webster was our best player in that WBA game. His passing was not what is was when in defence, but that pace and power in front of the defence allowed the rest to really push on. No coincidence Pack played well that night with that security by him.

Taylor Moore is no Webster because he doesn't have his pace more than anything. But I wouldn't be surprised if he did a reliable job in there. It may have been worth keeping him on just to sit in there when 2 up against Barnsley.

I probably would not do it myself, but it could be an option for LJ if he feels he needs more physicality in there, and a player who is very good on the ball too.

By the way I just watched Preston absolutely dominate the final parts of being 1-0 up away at Charlton. Something we should aim to be doing when leading! Easier said than done i suppose. But when someone like Korey is available again, it might be a bit easier to do.

Thanks.

I’m sure the current Wright is the Wright of 17/18 pre-injury.

Its really difficult to second guess LJ at the mo’.

[Guest]

26 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Thanks.

I’m sure the current Wright is the Wright of 17/18 pre-injury.

Its really difficult to second guess LJ at the mo’.

I think LJ has always changed teams a lot because he is trying to find that perfect formula. Maybe one game he picks a team and we look brilliant, and then sticks with that and we go on a run.

I expect that happened with the Pato - Reid combination run of games we went on, and the other players that played with them. At some point he tried it as an experiment, might have been Fulham away, and it worked really well and we went on a fantastic run, playing fantastic football.

Last season we went to a 4141 or 433 second half vs Stoke at home and played some of the best stuff I saw all season. You'd think he'd then go with that but then he didn't straight away, only seemed to go with that again at Ipswich second half. We were excellent and won the game having been very poor beforehand. So then he goes with that and we go on an amazing run up till Wolves game. A settled 11, settled formation, very solid, didn't score loads but we got results.

So hopefully at some point he finds that perfect formula. I'm glad he does not just settle with being good or okay. He will take a gamble.

What does concern me is when we don't pass the ball. He really should try and stick with the passing philosophy. Taking off Moore last game was ridiculous imo.

[RedM]

i am going to the Cardiff game so have been reading all the suggestions of who we play upfront with interest. Doesn't look like we have may options...then I remind myself when I went there last time we had Diony starting upfront and the match was probably one of the worst games I have ever seen us play. Surely we cannot be that bad again, but after Luton etc I'm not certain.

[Mr Popodopolous]

On 02/11/2019 at 15:08, Harry said:

As you and many posters will know, I was a big fan of Pack, but I agree that getting the money we did for him was good business and I have no qualms or arguments that he was moved on.

Obviously we thought we’d had plenty of cover with Nagy, Brownhill, Massengo to fill 2 spots, but injuries have cursed us. 

What I would say is that the midfield does now look weak. Massengo can’t perform to a high level week in week out at his age and in a new environment/country, Nagy injured, Brownhill having to play deeper which doesn’t suit him (and he needs a ‘disciplined/holder’ type to help him through his game). 

What the game was crying out for last night was someone to put their foot on the ball, slow the game down, pass pass pass, retain possession and tire the opposition out from their high energy press. We had no one who could hold the ball for 3 passes and it resulted in a very scrappy game. 

So, for all that I didn’t mind seeing Pack sold, last night would have been just the game we needed him, to hold possession, slow the tempo, receive the ball from the cb’s, release pressure from the press. 

We severely lacked composure on the ball. 

Our current setup- admittedly we can't do much about it due to injuries- does us few favours in that respect.

Think Brownhill-Pack-Massengo could've been a pretty steady 3- a proper central 3 would also bring out more in Pack, had we done it more often last year IMO and also would have stopped him and Brownhill- for him and Brownhill now read Massengo and Brownhill- to death.

[petehinton]

On 02/11/2019 at 17:08, Harry said:

As you and many posters will know, I was a big fan of Pack, but I agree that getting the money we did for him was good business and I have no qualms or arguments that he was moved on.

Obviously we thought we’d had plenty of cover with Nagy, Brownhill, Massengo to fill 2 spots, but injuries have cursed us. 

What I would say is that the midfield does now look weak. Massengo can’t perform to a high level week in week out at his age and in a new environment/country, Nagy injured, Brownhill having to play deeper which doesn’t suit him (and he needs a ‘disciplined/holder’ type to help him through his game). 

What the game was crying out for last night was someone to put their foot on the ball, slow the game down, pass pass pass, retain possession and tire the opposition out from their high energy press. We had no one who could hold the ball for 3 passes and it resulted in a very scrappy game. 

So, for all that I didn’t mind seeing Pack sold, last night would have been just the game we needed him, to hold possession, slow the tempo, receive the ball from the cb’s, release pressure from the press. 

We severely lacked composure on the ball. 

Palmer would’ve been the best choice by far on Friday. Just give him the ball and watch a tired Barnsley side try and get anywhere near him. 

[1960maaan]

15 minutes ago, petehinton said:

Palmer would’ve been the best choice by far on Friday. Just give him the ball and watch a tired Barnsley side try and get anywhere near him. 

I agree, but my thought at the time was LJ must have thought Semenyo could trouble them with some pace up front. He could have brought on Rodri and Palmer and they would have held the ball long enough to see the game out.

[mozo]

20 hours ago, JonDolman said:

Just what I imagine what LJ may do, not what I would do. Certainly would not have Wright right back. But LJ may feel we need as many physical players as possible. But on Wright at right back, he did surprisingly cope ok with many quick wingers, but not saying I would personally do that.

Moore in central midfield, he has played midfield before.

Many examples of centre backs moving into midfield for spells and doing very well. David Luiz at Chelsea under Benitez, Pepe at Real Madrid under Mourinho, Ledley King for Spurs under David Pleat. Dier of course moved into midfield at Spurs having been a centre back. Even Phil Jones had a very successful spell for United in midfield under Fergie! None of them did loads on the ball, just simple passes, but very good protection for others.

It's of course a very different role. I actually thought Adam Webster was our best player in that WBA game. His passing was not what is was when in defence, but that pace and power in front of the defence allowed the rest to really push on. No coincidence Pack played well that night with that security by him.

Taylor Moore is no Webster because he doesn't have his pace more than anything. But I wouldn't be surprised if he did a reliable job in there. It may have been worth keeping him on just to sit in there when 2 up against Barnsley.

I probably would not do it myself, but it could be an option for LJ if he feels he needs more physicality in there, and a player who is very good on the ball too.

By the way I just watched Preston absolutely dominate the final parts of being 1-0 up away at Charlton. Something we should aim to be doing when leading! Easier said than done i suppose. But when someone like Korey is available again, it might be a bit easier to do.

I actually think that is the best option right now.

We've got enough CBs to cover him so let's see if he can do an Eric Dier job.

We could start with Williams and Kalas at the back in a 4 and if we need to change formation, Moore slots back into a 3.

[Midred]

Have we been told what Brownhill's injury is and how serious it is?

 

Sorry, I've not seen it anywhere. 

[cidered abroad]

5 minutes ago, Midred said:

Have we been told what Brownhill's injury is and how serious it is?

 

Sorry, I've not seen it anywhere. 

No news is bad news?

[italian dave]

22 hours ago, Davefevs said:

 

LJ needs to decide if he wants to pick a more physical team to match up Cardiff, or ball-players to pass around them.

 

Exactly this. Last year he went for the first option: it almost worked, but it was a dire game of football - quite possibly the worst I've ever seen. At times it was more like a wrestling match. We don't have Diedhiou this time, so that's going to limit the extent to which we can out-muscle them. Personally I'd like to see us go for the second option. We know Flint doesn't like people running at him, and we know Pack will misplace passes if he's put under any sort of pressure. 

[Major Isewater]

44 minutes ago, Midred said:

Have we been told what Brownhill's injury is and how serious it is?

 

Sorry, I've not seen it anywhere. 

LJ said it shouldn’t be too serious, a bit of a back spasm . 
 

No further updates probably signal good news for JB.

[Mr Popodopolous]

22 minutes ago, italian dave said:

Exactly this. Last year he went for the first option: it almost worked, but it was a dire game of football - quite possibly the worst I've ever seen. At times it was more like a wrestling match. We don't have Diedhiou this time, so that's going to limit the extent to which we can out-muscle them. Personally I'd like to see us go for the second option. We know Flint doesn't like people running at him, and we know Pack will misplace passes if he's put under any sort of pressure. 

To a point, though being played in a 3 would give him more security.

Seem to recall him being outstanding at times in 2017/18- when, oh wait, we played with a fairly condensed centre- don't think the shape did him a huge amount of favours last season.

[italian dave]

39 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

To a point, though being played in a 3 would give him more security.

Seem to recall him being outstanding at times in 2017/18- when, oh wait, we played with a fairly condensed centre- don't think the shape did him a huge amount of favours last season.

Fair point - don't get me wrong, I was a big Pack fan when he was here, he reads the game well, and if you've got defenders like Flint then they're a liability without someone like Pack in front of them. But, he can be pressured into mistakes, or into playing it back all the time, and we should know that.