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reddogkev

Brownhill and the injury situation

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For me, Josh Brownhill being injured was the big difference last night.  If he stayed on the pitch, I'm sure we would have won the game.

That's 2 points lost as a result.

Added to the other injuries we have suffered this season - the most devastating being Afobe's - then it appears we are bloody cursed this year.

Such a shame, because the top two is really there for the taking. 

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1 hour ago, reddogkev said:

For me, Josh Brownhill being injured was the big difference last night.  If he stayed on the pitch, I'm sure we would have won the game.

That's 2 points lost as a result.

Added to the other injuries we have suffered this season - the most devastating being Afobe's - then it appears we are bloody cursed this year.

Such a shame, because the top two is really there for the taking. 

Completely agree, the tide turned when he came off although many would have you believe it’s Semenyos fault 🤷‍♂️

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I feel fans are being a bit harsh considering the injuries. Even before last night they were, but then to lose Brownhill, how can we keep ourselves up there with so many key injuries!

I thought it did one good thing in that Eliasson going to left wing back meant we actually started doing something down our left, which we had barely done at all beforehand.

But Rowe and Massengo as a pair in the end could not do it. A player who struggled at times to get into a league one side, and a kid who has just turned 18.

Obviously we had O'Dowda there too. But it may have been worth keeping Moore on at least to play him in midfield and move O'Dowda more advanced if he needed to bring Watkins off. If you're playing all out defence, then keep on a defensive player!

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Our injury situation is getting rediculous, how we arent at the bottom of the league is a miracle. But lets face it, its only a matter of time before one of brownhill or massengo gets crocked with the amount of minutes they are having to do

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7 minutes ago, Simon bristol said:

Our injury situation is getting rediculous, how we arent at the bottom of the league is a miracle. But lets face it, its only a matter of time before one of brownhill or massengo gets crocked with the amount of minutes they are having to do

My worry is that it's only a matter of time before Bentley gets crocked! 

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1 hour ago, Simon bristol said:

Our injury situation is getting rediculous, how we arent at the bottom of the league is a miracle. But lets face it, its only a matter of time before one of brownhill or massengo gets crocked with the amount of minutes they are having to do

Massengo will be targeted by Cardiff on Sunday 

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1 hour ago, downendcity said:

My worry is that it's only a matter of time before Bentley gets crocked! 

As good as Bentley has been, I have absolutely no qualms about Mäenpää coming in.  I think Mäenpää is better aerially.

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4 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

As good as Bentley has been, I have absolutely no qualms about Mäenpää coming in.  I think Mäenpää is better aerially.

I agree he commands his areal very well . 

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2 hours ago, JonDolman said:

I feel fans are being a bit harsh considering the injuries. Even before last night they were, but then to lose Brownhill, how can we keep ourselves up there with so many key injuries!

I thought it did one good thing in that Eliasson going to left wing back meant we actually started doing something down our left, which we had barely done at all beforehand.

But Rowe and Massengo as a pair in the end could not do it. A player who struggled at times to get into a league one side, and a kid who has just turned 18.

Obviously we had O'Dowda there too. But it may have been worth keeping Moore on at least to play him in midfield and move O'Dowda more advanced if he needed to bring Watkins off. If you're playing all out defence, then keep on a defensive player!

Agree, the mood on here from a fair few does seem very harsh - almost like a collection of fans understand we've got injuries to quality players, but still expect us to win most games anyway.

Slightly different point, but it seems the sale of Marlon Pack was a bad decision to make.  Losing all that Championship experience when we weren't struggling financially struck me as odd at the time, and now it looks a terrible bit of business.

Pack would still be a guaranteed starter.

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1 hour ago, daored said:

Massengo will be targeted by Cardiff on Sunday 

Agreed. Colin will be licking his lips leading his team out against us and especially LJ. I'm afraid the Wily fox will out coach us again.

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48 minutes ago, reddogkev said:

Agree, the mood on here from a fair few does seem very harsh - almost like a collection of fans understand we've got injuries to quality players, but still expect us to win most games anyway.

Slightly different point, but it seems the sale of Marlon Pack was a bad decision to make.  Losing all that Championship experience when we weren't struggling financially struck me as odd at the time, and now it looks a terrible bit of business.

Pack would still be a guaranteed starter.

Sorry but I don't agree with the Pack comment, though I obviously agreed with the first point you make!

For me the 4 million was superb business for Pack. We want more mobility in our midfield to compensate for having 2 up front, so I completely get what LJ was doing there. 

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4 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

Sorry but I don't agree with the Pack comment, though I obviously agreed with the first point you make!

For me the 4 million was superb business for Pack. We want more mobility in our midfield to compensate for having 2 up front, so I completely get what LJ was doing there. 

As you and many posters will know, I was a big fan of Pack, but I agree that getting the money we did for him was good business and I have no qualms or arguments that he was moved on.

Obviously we thought we’d had plenty of cover with Nagy, Brownhill, Massengo to fill 2 spots, but injuries have cursed us. 

What I would say is that the midfield does now look weak. Massengo can’t perform to a high level week in week out at his age and in a new environment/country, Nagy injured, Brownhill having to play deeper which doesn’t suit him (and he needs a ‘disciplined/holder’ type to help him through his game). 

What the game was crying out for last night was someone to put their foot on the ball, slow the game down, pass pass pass, retain possession and tire the opposition out from their high energy press. We had no one who could hold the ball for 3 passes and it resulted in a very scrappy game. 

So, for all that I didn’t mind seeing Pack sold, last night would have been just the game we needed him, to hold possession, slow the tempo, receive the ball from the cb’s, release pressure from the press. 

We severely lacked composure on the ball. 

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16 minutes ago, Harry said:

As you and many posters will know, I was a big fan of Pack, but I agree that getting the money we did for him was good business and I have no qualms or arguments that he was moved on.

Obviously we thought we’d had plenty of cover with Nagy, Brownhill, Massengo to fill 2 spots, but injuries have cursed us. 

What I would say is that the midfield does now look weak. Massengo can’t perform to a high level week in week out at his age and in a new environment/country, Nagy injured, Brownhill having to play deeper which doesn’t suit him (and he needs a ‘disciplined/holder’ type to help him through his game). 

What the game was crying out for last night was someone to put their foot on the ball, slow the game down, pass pass pass, retain possession and tire the opposition out from their high energy press. We had no one who could hold the ball for 3 passes and it resulted in a very scrappy game. 

So, for all that I didn’t mind seeing Pack sold, last night would have been just the game we needed him, to hold possession, slow the tempo, receive the ball from the cb’s, release pressure from the press. 

We severely lacked composure on the ball. 

Agree. I was very disappointed in Rowe, and hoping he can do better in midfield than what we saw. Had we had Brownhill or Smith we may have been fine, who knows. I think we were playing it very safe, hitting the ball direct so we don't lose possession in our own half. LJ really needs to work on building a passing team. That starts from the back passing the ball out.

I can see benefits to changing the team and philosophy every game, but it's hard to get any consistency in our performances. 

The funny thing is we seemed pretty comfortable enough when going 2 up. They had not really created anything second half. Then LJ makes double change taking off Moore and Watkins who were playing well!

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22 hours ago, reddogkev said:

Agree, the mood on here from a fair few does seem very harsh - almost like a collection of fans understand we've got injuries to quality players, but still expect us to win most games anyway.

Slightly different point, but it seems the sale of Marlon Pack was a bad decision to make.  Losing all that Championship experience when we weren't struggling financially struck me as odd at the time, and now it looks a terrible bit of business.

Pack would still be a guaranteed starter.

£4m for a player that Lee felt needing changing up, was good business.  Nagy alongside Brownhill was the plan whilst easing Massengo in.  Injuries have conspired against us.

21 hours ago, JonDolman said:

Sorry but I don't agree with the Pack comment, though I obviously agreed with the first point you make!

For me the 4 million was superb business for Pack. We want more mobility in our midfield to compensate for having 2 up front, so I completely get what LJ was doing there. 

Yep, as above

21 hours ago, Harry said:

As you and many posters will know, I was a big fan of Pack, but I agree that getting the money we did for him was good business and I have no qualms or arguments that he was moved on.

Obviously we thought we’d had plenty of cover with Nagy, Brownhill, Massengo to fill 2 spots, but injuries have cursed us. 

What I would say is that the midfield does now look weak. Massengo can’t perform to a high level week in week out at his age and in a new environment/country, Nagy injured, Brownhill having to play deeper which doesn’t suit him (and he needs a ‘disciplined/holder’ type to help him through his game). 

What the game was crying out for last night was someone to put their foot on the ball, slow the game down, pass pass pass, retain possession and tire the opposition out from their high energy press. We had no one who could hold the ball for 3 passes and it resulted in a very scrappy game. 

So, for all that I didn’t mind seeing Pack sold, last night would have been just the game we needed him, to hold possession, slow the tempo, receive the ball from the cb’s, release pressure from the press. 

We severely lacked composure on the ball. 

Agree with much of the sentiment there....pass, pass, keep the ball, take the sting out of Barnsley at all stages of the game, not just 2-0 up either.  That doesn’t need Pack per se, but it needs bravery, commitment to make angles.  That’s been missing for large parts of recent games.  Re Pack, for all his excellent shielding of the back four last season, I thought there were away games when he didn’t get on the ball either (for the role he was meant to be playing).  We have been playing like 3 separate units bar the 25 minutes v Charlton.  That needs to change.  That is something Brownhill needs to enforce from centre midfield.

21 hours ago, JonDolman said:

Agree. I was very disappointed in Rowe, and hoping he can do better in midfield than what we saw. Had we had Brownhill or Smith we may have been fine, who knows. I think we were playing it very safe, hitting the ball direct so we don't lose possession in our own half. LJ really needs to work on building a passing team. That starts from the back passing the ball out.

I can see benefits to changing the team and philosophy every game, but it's hard to get any consistency in our performances. 

The funny thing is we seemed pretty comfortable enough when going 2 up. They had not really created anything second half. Then LJ makes double change taking off Moore and Watkins who were playing well!

But did you feel Massengo got better with Rowe alongside him?  He gave Massengo the base to get on the ball.  He didn’t do much with the ball himself.

I’ve split the pics at the point Brownhill  was subbed off.

Massengo:

My view from watching isn't wholly backed up by the attached, but we can at least see Massengo having more influence in Barnsley’s third in the right pic....and also much more wins (green symbols), e.g. interceptions, tackles, headers.  I would say I probably want more from him though

EA256782-ACF5-4800-9069-9C115C9AD7FB.thumb.jpeg.df20281a4339f7c6b06e0b6cb30f6f90.jpeg
 

Rowe:

Again, not brilliant, and not a great start at LWB (I’m with you this particular game JD!!!).  Not the greatest with the ball but again, look at the “wins”.  He certainly wasn’t brilliant, but he wasn’t at anonymous as you might think.

50F45014-F2C7-4BD4-92E6-ADFE64098476.thumb.jpeg.4710fd3b7eae0e130f7857a6e8c9f78d.jpeg

Overall:

It was a bloody disjointed performance.  Early bright signs with Watkins and Weimann looking like they could get Pereira in on the right wing early on, to easy possession given up by all players consistently throughout.

Taylor Moore had a very quiet game on the ball.  Bentley kicked long throughout.

A poor night at the office, Weimann, Bentley and Williams came out with real credit.  Watkins above average.  That’s about it.
 

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22 hours ago, City_USA said:

Agreed. Colin will be licking his lips leading his team out against us and especially LJ. I'm afraid the Wily fox will out coach us again.

I hope not obviously but I fear Cardiff will literally kick us off the park next week and win comfortably . With the current horrendous injury situation we are so lightweight it’s untrue. Massengo and Palmer will just get kicked up in the air and we don’t have anyone to give a bit back. If it’s the same midfield that finished the game against Barnsley I fear for us next week. Like I said, hope I’m wrong.

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Not hard to work out the problem, two defensively suspect full backs, lightweight in midfield, and lacking a striker who can hold the ball to bring our attacking midfielders into play. As for Bentley, the guy has been immense and bailed us out so much this season, I really can't see why anyone would want him replaced.

Despite this, we are still 6th, so can't all be bad.

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3 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

£4m for a player that Lee felt needing changing up, was good business.  Nagy alongside Brownhill was the plan whilst easing Massengo in.  Injuries have conspired against us.

Yep, as above

Agree with much of the sentiment there....pass, pass, keep the ball, take the sting out of Barnsley at all stages of the game, not just 2-0 up either.  That doesn’t need Pack per se, but it needs bravery, commitment to make angles.  That’s been missing for large parts of recent games.  Re Pack, for all his excellent shielding of the back four last season, I thought there were away games when he didn’t get on the ball either (for the role he was meant to be playing).  We have been playing like 3 separate units bar the 25 minutes v Charlton.  That needs to change.  That is something Brownhill needs to enforce from centre midfield.

But did you feel Massengo got better with Rowe alongside him?  He gave Massengo the base to get on the ball.  He didn’t do much with the ball himself.

I’ve split the pics at the point Brownhill  was subbed off.

Massengo:

My view from watching isn't wholly backed up by the attached, but we can at least see Massengo having more influence in Barnsley’s third in the right pic....and also much more wins (green symbols), e.g. interceptions, tackles, headers.  I would say I probably want more from him though

EA256782-ACF5-4800-9069-9C115C9AD7FB.thumb.jpeg.df20281a4339f7c6b06e0b6cb30f6f90.jpeg
 

Rowe:

Again, not brilliant, and not a great start at LWB (I’m with you this particular game JD!!!).  Not the greatest with the ball but again, look at the “wins”.  He certainly wasn’t brilliant, but he wasn’t at anonymous as you might think.

50F45014-F2C7-4BD4-92E6-ADFE64098476.thumb.jpeg.4710fd3b7eae0e130f7857a6e8c9f78d.jpeg

Overall:

It was a bloody disjointed performance.  Early bright signs with Watkins and Weimann looking like they could get Pereira in on the right wing early on, to easy possession given up by all players consistently throughout.

Taylor Moore had a very quiet game on the ball.  Bentley kicked long throughout.

A poor night at the office, Weimann, Bentley and Williams came out with real credit.  Watkins above average.  That’s about it.
 

I thought Rowe would give more on the ball in the middle to be honest. Only one game, and a tough one. I was impressed with him in that Derby preseason game, but I also was with others like Szmodics who have yet to show anything.  I guess it was only a friendly.

With Massengo, I think we need Korey or Nagy back to really get the best out of him and Brownhill too. 

It's a tricky one though, because we say the midfield is a problem, but you have the exact same midfielders with say Dasilva left wing back and Afobe up top, and suddenly I imagine there is not such a problem!

 

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2 minutes ago, Chappers said:

Not hard to work out the problem, two defensively suspect full backs, lightweight in midfield, and lacking a striker who can hold the ball to bring our attacking midfielders into play. As for Bentley, the guy has been immense and bailed us out so much this season, I really can't see why anyone would want him replaced.

Despite this, we are still 6th, so can't all be bad.

I agree with everything you say. If only, and it’s a big “if” we can stay in contention until January this year must be a great opportunity to gain promotion. By January some of the injured players will be back and LJ will amaze us all with his January window signing of a new striker. If we can now be in 6th position after all the injuries and poor performances there can’t be any teams to be afraid of if we have full squad 

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23 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

I hope not obviously but I fear Cardiff will literally kick us off the park next week and win comfortably . With the current horrendous injury situation we are so lightweight it’s untrue. Massengo and Palmer will just get kicked up in the air and we don’t have anyone to give a bit back. If it’s the same midfield that finished the game against Barnsley I fear for us next week. Like I said, hope I’m wrong.

I see LJ making some changes to face a very different kind of side in Cardiff. If we go to back 4 then I imagine Wright may be right back. Would not surprise me to see Taylor Moore in midfield as a holder, with Massengo and Brownhill having a bit more freedom. Don't have a clue what he would then do up top. I feel pace is the way to beat Cardiff's pair at the back. Weimann decent enough pace, Watkins too. Neither are exceptionally quick though. 

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16 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

I see LJ making some changes to face a very different kind of side in Cardiff. If we go to back 4 then I imagine Wright may be right back. Would not surprise me to see Taylor Moore in midfield as a holder, with Massengo and Brownhill having a bit more freedom. Don't have a clue what he would then do up top. I feel pace is the way to beat Cardiff's pair at the back. Weimann decent enough pace, Watkins too. Neither are exceptionally quick though. 

Wright at RB against either Mendez-Laing or Hoilett might give me severe lack of sleep this week!!  Pereira’s pace will be needed.

What makes you think Taylor Moore as DM is the right thing to do?  Playing CB and looking down the pitch (one way) is a very different proposition to having to receive the ball from your back 4 on the half-turn.  Moore has shown me nothing to think he could do that.  Even Webster, far better on the ball, was sussed out after 25 mins by West Brom, and then got caught a few times trying to move the ball sideways...and it lands you in trouble.

LJ needs to decide if he wants to pick a more physical team to match up Cardiff, or ball-players to pass around them.

Tough call.  May depend on Nagy’s fitness / availability.

Cardiff play 433.  Ping the diagonals.  It is important that if they get on the ball they do it from deep, where the bits and pieces will be away from our goal.  Ralls and Bacuna will want to be gambling on getting the loose ball, protected by Pack sitting deep.

Could see LJ going:

Weimann - right forward

Rodri / Semenyo - middle - he could even play Palmer as a non-forward to just find space.

Watkins - left forward

Weimann and Watkins stopping Peltier and Bennett having anytime on the ball.  Flint can have it.  Long and straight shouldn’t be a problem to defend.

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17 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

I see LJ making some changes to face a very different kind of side in Cardiff. If we go to back 4 then I imagine Wright may be right back. Would not surprise me to see Taylor Moore in midfield as a holder, with Massengo and Brownhill having a bit more freedom. Don't have a clue what he would then do up top. I feel pace is the way to beat Cardiff's pair at the back. Weimann decent enough pace, Watkins too. Neither are exceptionally quick though. 

He does need to pick a side if he has one, to deal with the one off threat Cardiff possess. Forget this “let them worry about us”, we don’t have the fit players for that to happen so we have to set up accordingly I think.

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4 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Wright at RB against either Mendez-Laing or Hoilett might give me severe lack of sleep this week!!  Pereira’s pace will be needed.

What makes you think Taylor Moore as DM is the right thing to do?  Playing CB and looking down the pitch (one way) is a very different proposition to having to receive the ball from your back 4 on the half-turn.  Moore has shown me nothing to think he could do that.  Even Webster, far better on the ball, was sussed out after 25 mins by West Brom, and then got caught a few times trying to move the ball sideways...and it lands you in trouble.

LJ needs to decide if he wants to pick a more physical team to match up Cardiff, or ball-players to pass around them.

Tough call.  May depend on Nagy’s fitness / availability.

Cardiff play 433.  Ping the diagonals.  It is important that if they get on the ball they do it from deep, where the bits and pieces will be away from our goal.  Ralls and Bacuna will want to be gambling on getting the loose ball, protected by Pack sitting deep.

Could see LJ going:

Weimann - right forward

Rodri / Semenyo - middle - he could even play Palmer as a non-forward to just find space.

Watkins - left forward

Weimann and Watkins stopping Peltier and Bennett having anytime on the ball.  Flint can have it.  Long and straight shouldn’t be a problem to defend.

Just what I imagine what LJ may do, not what I would do. Certainly would not have Wright right back. But LJ may feel we need as many physical players as possible. But on Wright at right back, he did surprisingly cope ok with many quick wingers, but not saying I would personally do that.

Moore in central midfield, he has played midfield before.

Many examples of centre backs moving into midfield for spells and doing very well. David Luiz at Chelsea under Benitez, Pepe at Real Madrid under Mourinho, Ledley King for Spurs under David Pleat. Dier of course moved into midfield at Spurs having been a centre back. Even Phil Jones had a very successful spell for United in midfield under Fergie! None of them did loads on the ball, just simple passes, but very good protection for others.

It's of course a very different role. I actually thought Adam Webster was our best player in that WBA game. His passing was not what is was when in defence, but that pace and power in front of the defence allowed the rest to really push on. No coincidence Pack played well that night with that security by him.

Taylor Moore is no Webster because he doesn't have his pace more than anything. But I wouldn't be surprised if he did a reliable job in there. It may have been worth keeping him on just to sit in there when 2 up against Barnsley.

I probably would not do it myself, but it could be an option for LJ if he feels he needs more physicality in there, and a player who is very good on the ball too.

By the way I just watched Preston absolutely dominate the final parts of being 1-0 up away at Charlton. Something we should aim to be doing when leading! Easier said than done i suppose. But when someone like Korey is available again, it might be a bit easier to do.

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On ‎02‎/‎11‎/‎2019 at 11:42, downendcity said:

My worry is that it's only a matter of time before Bentley gets crocked! 

Have you forgotten Maenpa already?

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42 minutes ago, pillred said:

Have you forgotten Maenpa already?

Not forgotten, and it's great that we have someone of his ability as sub keeper, but Bentley's shot stopping is at another level, and worth a few points to us already this season.

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1 hour ago, JonDolman said:

Just what I imagine what LJ may do, not what I would do. Certainly would not have Wright right back. But LJ may feel we need as many physical players as possible. But on Wright at right back, he did surprisingly cope ok with many quick wingers, but not saying I would personally do that.

Moore in central midfield, he has played midfield before.

Many examples of centre backs moving into midfield for spells and doing very well. David Luiz at Chelsea under Benitez, Pepe at Real Madrid under Mourinho, Ledley King for Spurs under David Pleat. Dier of course moved into midfield at Spurs having been a centre back. Even Phil Jones had a very successful spell for United in midfield under Fergie! None of them did loads on the ball, just simple passes, but very good protection for others.

It's of course a very different role. I actually thought Adam Webster was our best player in that WBA game. His passing was not what is was when in defence, but that pace and power in front of the defence allowed the rest to really push on. No coincidence Pack played well that night with that security by him.

Taylor Moore is no Webster because he doesn't have his pace more than anything. But I wouldn't be surprised if he did a reliable job in there. It may have been worth keeping him on just to sit in there when 2 up against Barnsley.

I probably would not do it myself, but it could be an option for LJ if he feels he needs more physicality in there, and a player who is very good on the ball too.

By the way I just watched Preston absolutely dominate the final parts of being 1-0 up away at Charlton. Something we should aim to be doing when leading! Easier said than done i suppose. But when someone like Korey is available again, it might be a bit easier to do.

Thanks.

I’m sure the current Wright is the Wright of 17/18 pre-injury.

Its really difficult to second guess LJ at the mo’.

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26 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Thanks.

I’m sure the current Wright is the Wright of 17/18 pre-injury.

Its really difficult to second guess LJ at the mo’.

I think LJ has always changed teams a lot because he is trying to find that perfect formula. Maybe one game he picks a team and we look brilliant, and then sticks with that and we go on a run.

I expect that happened with the Pato - Reid combination run of games we went on, and the other players that played with them. At some point he tried it as an experiment, might have been Fulham away, and it worked really well and we went on a fantastic run, playing fantastic football.

Last season we went to a 4141 or 433 second half vs Stoke at home and played some of the best stuff I saw all season. You'd think he'd then go with that but then he didn't straight away, only seemed to go with that again at Ipswich second half. We were excellent and won the game having been very poor beforehand. So then he goes with that and we go on an amazing run up till Wolves game. A settled 11, settled formation, very solid, didn't score loads but we got results.

So hopefully at some point he finds that perfect formula. I'm glad he does not just settle with being good or okay. He will take a gamble.

What does concern me is when we don't pass the ball. He really should try and stick with the passing philosophy. Taking off Moore last game was ridiculous imo.

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i am going to the Cardiff game so have been reading all the suggestions of who we play upfront with interest. Doesn't look like we have may options...then I remind myself when I went there last time we had Diony starting upfront and the match was probably one of the worst games I have ever seen us play. Surely we cannot be that bad again, but after Luton etc I'm not certain.

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On 02/11/2019 at 15:08, Harry said:

As you and many posters will know, I was a big fan of Pack, but I agree that getting the money we did for him was good business and I have no qualms or arguments that he was moved on.

Obviously we thought we’d had plenty of cover with Nagy, Brownhill, Massengo to fill 2 spots, but injuries have cursed us. 

What I would say is that the midfield does now look weak. Massengo can’t perform to a high level week in week out at his age and in a new environment/country, Nagy injured, Brownhill having to play deeper which doesn’t suit him (and he needs a ‘disciplined/holder’ type to help him through his game). 

What the game was crying out for last night was someone to put their foot on the ball, slow the game down, pass pass pass, retain possession and tire the opposition out from their high energy press. We had no one who could hold the ball for 3 passes and it resulted in a very scrappy game. 

So, for all that I didn’t mind seeing Pack sold, last night would have been just the game we needed him, to hold possession, slow the tempo, receive the ball from the cb’s, release pressure from the press. 

We severely lacked composure on the ball

Our current setup- admittedly we can't do much about it due to injuries- does us few favours in that respect.

Think Brownhill-Pack-Massengo could've been a pretty steady 3- a proper central 3 would also bring out more in Pack, had we done it more often last year IMO and also would have stopped him and Brownhill- for him and Brownhill now read Massengo and Brownhill- to death.

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On 02/11/2019 at 17:08, Harry said:

As you and many posters will know, I was a big fan of Pack, but I agree that getting the money we did for him was good business and I have no qualms or arguments that he was moved on.

Obviously we thought we’d had plenty of cover with Nagy, Brownhill, Massengo to fill 2 spots, but injuries have cursed us. 

What I would say is that the midfield does now look weak. Massengo can’t perform to a high level week in week out at his age and in a new environment/country, Nagy injured, Brownhill having to play deeper which doesn’t suit him (and he needs a ‘disciplined/holder’ type to help him through his game). 

What the game was crying out for last night was someone to put their foot on the ball, slow the game down, pass pass pass, retain possession and tire the opposition out from their high energy press. We had no one who could hold the ball for 3 passes and it resulted in a very scrappy game. 

So, for all that I didn’t mind seeing Pack sold, last night would have been just the game we needed him, to hold possession, slow the tempo, receive the ball from the cb’s, release pressure from the press. 

We severely lacked composure on the ball. 

Palmer would’ve been the best choice by far on Friday. Just give him the ball and watch a tired Barnsley side try and get anywhere near him. 

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15 minutes ago, petehinton said:

Palmer would’ve been the best choice by far on Friday. Just give him the ball and watch a tired Barnsley side try and get anywhere near him. 

I agree, but my thought at the time was LJ must have thought Semenyo could trouble them with some pace up front. He could have brought on Rodri and Palmer and they would have held the ball long enough to see the game out.

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20 hours ago, JonDolman said:

Just what I imagine what LJ may do, not what I would do. Certainly would not have Wright right back. But LJ may feel we need as many physical players as possible. But on Wright at right back, he did surprisingly cope ok with many quick wingers, but not saying I would personally do that.

Moore in central midfield, he has played midfield before.

Many examples of centre backs moving into midfield for spells and doing very well. David Luiz at Chelsea under Benitez, Pepe at Real Madrid under Mourinho, Ledley King for Spurs under David Pleat. Dier of course moved into midfield at Spurs having been a centre back. Even Phil Jones had a very successful spell for United in midfield under Fergie! None of them did loads on the ball, just simple passes, but very good protection for others.

It's of course a very different role. I actually thought Adam Webster was our best player in that WBA game. His passing was not what is was when in defence, but that pace and power in front of the defence allowed the rest to really push on. No coincidence Pack played well that night with that security by him.

Taylor Moore is no Webster because he doesn't have his pace more than anything. But I wouldn't be surprised if he did a reliable job in there. It may have been worth keeping him on just to sit in there when 2 up against Barnsley.

I probably would not do it myself, but it could be an option for LJ if he feels he needs more physicality in there, and a player who is very good on the ball too.

By the way I just watched Preston absolutely dominate the final parts of being 1-0 up away at Charlton. Something we should aim to be doing when leading! Easier said than done i suppose. But when someone like Korey is available again, it might be a bit easier to do.

I actually think that is the best option right now.

We've got enough CBs to cover him so let's see if he can do an Eric Dier job.

We could start with Williams and Kalas at the back in a 4 and if we need to change formation, Moore slots back into a 3.

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22 hours ago, Davefevs said:

 

LJ needs to decide if he wants to pick a more physical team to match up Cardiff, or ball-players to pass around them.

 

Exactly this. Last year he went for the first option: it almost worked, but it was a dire game of football - quite possibly the worst I've ever seen. At times it was more like a wrestling match. We don't have Diedhiou this time, so that's going to limit the extent to which we can out-muscle them. Personally I'd like to see us go for the second option. We know Flint doesn't like people running at him, and we know Pack will misplace passes if he's put under any sort of pressure. 

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44 minutes ago, Midred said:

Have we been told what Brownhill's injury is and how serious it is?

 

Sorry, I've not seen it anywhere. 

LJ said it shouldn’t be too serious, a bit of a back spasm . 
 

No further updates probably signal good news for JB.

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22 minutes ago, italian dave said:

Exactly this. Last year he went for the first option: it almost worked, but it was a dire game of football - quite possibly the worst I've ever seen. At times it was more like a wrestling match. We don't have Diedhiou this time, so that's going to limit the extent to which we can out-muscle them. Personally I'd like to see us go for the second option. We know Flint doesn't like people running at him, and we know Pack will misplace passes if he's put under any sort of pressure

To a point, though being played in a 3 would give him more security.

Seem to recall him being outstanding at times in 2017/18- when, oh wait, we played with a fairly condensed centre- don't think the shape did him a huge amount of favours last season.

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39 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

To a point, though being played in a 3 would give him more security.

Seem to recall him being outstanding at times in 2017/18- when, oh wait, we played with a fairly condensed centre- don't think the shape did him a huge amount of favours last season.

Fair point - don't get me wrong, I was a big Pack fan when he was here, he reads the game well, and if you've got defenders like Flint then they're a liability without someone like Pack in front of them. But, he can be pressured into mistakes, or into playing it back all the time, and we should know that.

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