AshtonGreat Posted November 3, 2019 Report Share Posted November 3, 2019 5 minutes ago, Andy082005 said: I've said it before on this forum sometime ago....football players are like kids. There is a strong chance you will be a product like your upbringing Lee Johnson was soft as a player, and he is equally as soft as a manager. I'm not surprised his teams are powder puff. Getting players fired up is his job...it is his job to prepare players mentally and physically for when they enter that field of play. He just doesn't carry any authority I'm afraid. Never did as a player, doesn't as a manager. This weak streak filters into the players....and has done for the last couple of seasons. It shows in the fact that we don't have the mental attributes to see games out. He will never have the success managers like Wilder and Warnock have had/having While I also have doubts about Johnson's ability to get us promoted, I think calling the team powder-puff is a tad harsh. You don't win away 3-2 at a would-be promotion side like Sheffield United without having something about you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy082005 Posted November 3, 2019 Report Share Posted November 3, 2019 1 minute ago, AshtonGreat said: While I also have doubts about Johnson's ability to get us promoted, I think calling the team powder-puff is a tad harsh. You don't win away 3-2 at a would-be promotion side like Sheffield United without having something about you. You've plucked out one game .....I could literally throw 10 games back at you as a counter argument He's weak. Overall....his teams are weak. Prime example will be next Sunday....you watch how Cardiff approach the game . We will not be able to cope with it Cardiff are shit. But they will be much more prepared mentally and will bully us of the park Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshtonGreat Posted November 3, 2019 Report Share Posted November 3, 2019 5 minutes ago, Andy082005 said: You've plucked out one game .....I could literally throw 10 games back at you as a counter argument He's weak. Overall....his teams are weak. Prime example will be next Sunday....you watch how Cardiff approach the game . We will not be able to cope with it Cardiff are shit. But they will be much more prepared mentally and will bully us of the park I agree with you in many ways Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marmite Posted November 3, 2019 Report Share Posted November 3, 2019 7 minutes ago, Andy082005 said: I've said it before on this forum sometime ago....football players are like kids. There is a strong chance you will be a product like your upbringing Lee Johnson was soft as a player, and he is equally as soft as a manager. Getting players fired up is his job...it is his job to prepare players mentally and physically for when they enter that field of play. He just doesn't carry any authority I'm afraid. Never did as a player, doesn't as a manager. This weak streak filters into the players....and has done for the last couple of seasons. It shows in the fact that we don't have the mental attributes to see games out. He will never have the success managers like Wilder and Warnock have had/having It's a big statement to say LJ doesn't carry any authority but I think it's a safety first thing with him. His approach seems to be that the match starts with us having 1 point and we mustnt lose that point. Other managers may approach games thinking there are 3 points on the table. I think it's a glass half empty/half full mindset. He was indeed safety first as a player and that must be in his DNA. If he tries to instill that safety first into the players then they also will play cautiously which seems to be the case. The team obviously play to his instructions so our 'performance state' , or lack of it, is surely down to him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowshed Posted November 3, 2019 Report Share Posted November 3, 2019 3 hours ago, spudski said: With a settled fit side at our level, and no injuries, it's possible to drill over time a team that will play to a method. Also take into the fact we are developing players...not all the finished article. Take into a fact that it's obvious we are changing our playing methodology. And some square pegs in round holes to an extent. I agree in principle to what you say, however outside actions have an effect to what we buy, sell, develop and progress. At the moment it feels like we are make do and mending. With a fully fit side, I feel we would see more of an identity appearing. Unfortunately LJ doesn't have the luxury of buying players already developed and at the top of their game with so much experience...that can quickly adapt to methods they have already done. To a degree we are also finding players that we chance on developing that we hope will succeed. As in the case Of Massengo and Eliasson. Our playing ideologies to a degree are influenced by outside blueprints. You can drill players in a style...but at this level they also gave to have the qualities, that come at a price to succeed. With respect Spudski Mr Johnson had a defining approach to fulfil his vision or he did not. What you are outlining there is somebody who throws his values out of the window. Its not an identity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bristol Oil Services Posted November 3, 2019 Report Share Posted November 3, 2019 Tommy Docherty - the Man Utd one from the 70s - used to say he wouldn't say anything to his players that he couldn't say to his milkman (and expect him to grasp immediately). Does Lee have his milk delivered? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted November 3, 2019 Report Share Posted November 3, 2019 Here's a performance indicator that I've just seen online and if true is highly worrying- albeit injuries certainly play a big part. It doesn't surprise me that much- we concede a lot of chances! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS4 on Tour... Posted November 3, 2019 Report Share Posted November 3, 2019 Love it! “...that’s a load of bollocks, you’ve gotta f@cking die to get three points ..!!” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted November 3, 2019 Report Share Posted November 3, 2019 1 hour ago, Mr Popodopolous said: Here's a performance indicator that I've just seen online and if true is highly worrying- albeit injuries certainly play a big part. It doesn't surprise me that much- we concede a lot of chances! It’s misleading though. What were the make-up of those shots? I’d suggest that there have been a lot of longer range, low percentage shots. We’ve generally been good at not conceding good chances, until recent games, forcing opponents wide or deep. As it currently stands without Nagy, I’d be persevering with the 5212. That two in CM protecting the back 3 served us well. It got Palmer on the pitch too. Of course if we take one game in isolation, namely Cardiff this Sunday, you might argue 5212 v their 433 is not the greatest choice. But Lee is gonna have to settle on something 90% of the time at some point. If you treat our 5212 as a 3412 with Rowe and Pereira squeezing Mendez-Laing and Hoilett deeper, then you do nullify them to an extent. Flint and Nelson / Bamba can have the ball, Weimann and Watkins / Semenyo / Rodri should stop the passes to the full-backs, and with Palmer should shift across the pitch as the ball gies from centre to full-backs and back again. The full-backs will ping diags so the front “3” won’t be chasing a good passing back line, because that’s not Cardiff’s style. One of our back 3 must shuffle across to help the Wingbacks without getting dragged too wide. For me it’s time for LJ to trust his best players....those that are fit anyway. As we currently sit here imho that’s: Bentley Pereira | Kalas | Williams | Moore | Rowe Brownhill | Massengo (Nagy) Palmer Weimann | Watkins (Rodri) Out of possession: Bentley Pereira | Kalas | Williams | Moore | Rowe Brownhill | Massengo (Nagy) Palmer Weimann | Watkins (Rodri) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downendcity Posted November 3, 2019 Report Share Posted November 3, 2019 8 hours ago, Andy082005 said: I've said it before on this forum sometime ago....football players are like kids. There is a strong chance you will be a product like your upbringing Lee Johnson was soft as a player, and he is equally as soft as a manager. I'm not surprised his teams are powder puff. Getting players fired up is his job...it is his job to prepare players mentally and physically for when they enter that field of play. He just doesn't carry any authority I'm afraid. Never did as a player, doesn't as a manager. This weak streak filters into the players....and has done for the last couple of seasons. It shows in the fact that we don't have the mental attributes to see games out. He will never have the success managers like Wilder and Warnock have had/having Is that the weak streak and lack of mental attributes to see games out, that last season saw us concede goals in the last quarter of games only 2/3 times? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted November 3, 2019 Report Share Posted November 3, 2019 3 hours ago, Davefevs said: It’s misleading though. What were the make-up of those shots? I’d suggest that there have been a lot of longer range, low percentage shots. We’ve generally been good at not conceding good chances, until recent games, forcing opponents wide or deep. As it currently stands without Nagy, I’d be persevering with the 5212. That two in CM protecting the back 3 served us well. It got Palmer on the pitch too. Of course if we take one game in isolation, namely Cardiff this Sunday, you might argue 5212 v their 433 is not the greatest choice. But Lee is gonna have to settle on something 90% of the time at some point. If you treat our 5212 as a 3412 with Rowe and Pereira squeezing Mendez-Laing and Hoilett deeper, then you do nullify them to an extent. Flint and Nelson / Bamba can have the ball, Weimann and Watkins / Semenyo / Rodri should stop the passes to the full-backs, and with Palmer should shift across the pitch as the ball gies from centre to full-backs and back again. The full-backs will ping diags so the front “3” won’t be chasing a good passing back line, because that’s not Cardiff’s style. One of our back 3 must shuffle across to help the Wingbacks without getting dragged too wide. For me it’s time for LJ to trust his best players....those that are fit anyway. As we currently sit here imho that’s: Bentley Pereira | Kalas | Williams | Moore | Rowe Brownhill | Massengo (Nagy) Palmer Weimann | Watkins (Rodri) Out of possession: Bentley Pereira | Kalas | Williams | Moore | Rowe Brownhill | Massengo (Nagy) Palmer Weimann | Watkins (Rodri) True...we have been good at that until recently, but the underlying numbers still gave me some cause for worries. The way I saw it was that our relative lack of possession put a strain on the midfield, even more in a 2, and indeed the defence in due course, less protection, more necessary trying to soak up, fend off pressure- how long can it he kept up? Then to top it all- an impressive conversion rate, from not a huge number of chances. All great when it works and especially. Considering the injuries, but how sustainable- especially with the injuries? Oh and I saw a good stat earlier. Bentley has an impressive save rate- again is that 'his' norm or will it regress at all? Yes, I'd go with that. Kalas for Baker, agreed- I do wish he'd stop taking off Moore as well! For me, Nagy can't come back soon enough, mean match fit as opposed to merely not injured of course- sooner we get that central '3' potential of him, Brownhill and Massengo the better IMO! If he comes back soon, I'd be interested in something like: Bentley Moore Kalas Williams Pereira Brownhill Nagy Massengo Rowe Palmer Weimann Probably looks better on my phone screen layout wise than the board haha, but I think of that as Brooks behind Sharp or Clarke at Sheffield United, though Brooks could fall back a bit more. Still that 3-5-1-1 would well and truly fill the centre...one of the CM's or Weimann may have to pull a bit wider to help Rowe in phases but I'd be intrigued by this shape- Brownhill could help Pereira on the right... That said, yep like your side- looks strong, about our best bet with the personnel we have available right now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS4 on Tour... Posted November 4, 2019 Report Share Posted November 4, 2019 5 hours ago, BS4 on Tour... said: Love it! “...that’s a load of bollocks, you’ve gotta f@cking die to get three points ..!!” “Confused” @Mr Popodopolous - ??!! Why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted November 4, 2019 Report Share Posted November 4, 2019 38 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said: “Confused” @Mr Popodopolous - ??!! Why? Ah yes, I twigged now- Warnock isn't it! Not sure how well the approach works in a diverse, quite young dressing room in 2019 though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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