Jump to content

Welcome to One Team in Bristol - Bristol City Forums

Welcome to One Team in Bristol - Bristol City Forums, like most online communities you must register to view or post in our community, but don't worry this is a simple free process that requires minimal information for you to signup. Be a part of One Team in Bristol - Bristol City Forums by signing in or creating an account.

  • Start new topics and reply to others
  • Full access to all forums (not all viewable as guest)
  • Subscribe to topics and forums to get email updates
  • Get your own profile page and make new friends
  • Send personal messages to other members.
  • Support OTIB with a premium membership

Northern Red

Saracens Relegated (Merged)

Recommended Posts

1 minute ago, MichaelRobartes said:

Spot on but I don't think it'll end there. Some of the other clubs will be pushing for further sanctions and rightly so in my opinion.

I wonder what deal has been done though? Take their medicine this year and draw a line in the sand? I can’t imagine PRL want endless litigation tarnishing the brand. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 hours ago, CyderInACan said:

I wonder what deal has been done though? Take their medicine this year and draw a line in the sand? I can’t imagine PRL want endless litigation tarnishing the brand. 

They may not have much choice. You'd think there would be good cases to be made from loss of earnings because of Sarries circumventing the rules. Even if they keep their titles, how many now have asterixes attached?

Exeter might have a couple more Premiership titles now. Sarries knocked Munster out in two semi finals in recent years, might we have won two more European Cups but for their financial doping? What about Leinster in last season's final? It's a really messy situation.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Possibility of further investigations? Probably notably into their current season's arrangements.

 

Would be amazed if not. I don't see how they can be under the cap without cancelling or renegotiating contracts. Even if they cancelled a few I think they'd still have to pay up anyway.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, MichaelRobartes said:

Would be amazed if not. I don't see how they can be under the cap without cancelling or renegotiating contracts. Even if they cancelled a few I think they'd still have to pay up anyway.

Agreed- who have they sold? Think Exeter are looking to sue as well.

Personally I'd accept cancellation of contracts and payoff as they wouldn't benefit on the pitch- I'd accept that as exceptional costs, to get back into line.

Meanwhile

Penny for SL's thoughts?

Edited by Mr Popodopolous

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Agreed- who have they sold? Think Exeter are looking to sue as well.

Personally I'd accept cancellation of contracts and payoff as they wouldn't benefit on the pitch- I'd accept that as exceptional costs, to get back into line.

Meanwhile

Penny for SL's thoughts?

Interesting that he was so outspoken about Leeds last season that he has not recorded any soundbites yet

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Agreed- who have they sold? Think Exeter are looking to sue as well.

Personally I'd accept cancellation of contracts and payoff as they wouldn't benefit on the pitch- I'd accept that as exceptional costs, to get back into line.

Meanwhile

Penny for SL's thoughts?

Strettle, Bosch, Burger, Tolofua, Day plus many youngsters off the wage bill.

Saracens are under the salary cap in terms of wage of £7m. The issue is the co-investments which have been deemed salary. They were not penalised from a wages point of view.

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, phantom said:

Interesting that he was so outspoken about Leeds last season that he has not recorded any soundbites yet

Lack of rugby/PRL SC knowledge I’m led to believe.

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, westred1 said:

Strettle, Bosch, Burger, Tolofua, Day plus many youngsters off the wage bill.

Saracens are under the salary cap in terms of wage of £7m. The issue is the co-investments which have been deemed salary. They were not penalised from a wages point of view.

That's true, but it was my understanding that those co-investments were included in contract negotiations to essentially top up salaries? If so then not paying them would leave Sarries in breach of contract with several players?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, MichaelRobartes said:

That's true, but it was my understanding that those co-investments were included in contract negotiations to essentially top up salaries? If so then not paying them would leave Sarries in breach of contract with several players?

That’s very much false.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

https://www.rugbypass.com/news/saracens-radical-step-in-bid-to-head-off-more-accusations-about-their-finances-from-rival-clubs

👀

Now, the Times suggests that it was at the behest/request of Premier Rugby, but the point is that they are opening their books for this season.

If only the EFL could do the same- actually they should be what with the original Projected Accounts based punishments etc.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
45 minutes ago, westred1 said:

@MichaelRobartes Watched Sarries v Munster. Some atmosphere at Thomond Park!

I didn't see it yet but was following on Twitter. We are a work in progress with the new coaches in, probably more of the old Munster style needed with conditions today. All to do for us to get out of the pool, we need to win at least one of Sarries and Racing away. Good to maintain the home record anyway, Sarries really put it up to us with plenty of players rested. Looking forward to the away game next week. From what I read we will need to improve massively to get what we need.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, MichaelRobartes said:

I didn't see it yet but was following on Twitter. We are a work in progress with the new coaches in, probably more of the old Munster style needed with conditions today. All to do for us to get out of the pool, we need to win at least one of Sarries and Racing away. Good to maintain the home record anyway, Sarries really put it up to us with plenty of players rested. Looking forward to the away game next week. From what I read we will need to improve massively to get what we need.

Despite the low score, I thought it was a good game contested in great spirit especially with the torrential conditions. Pelted it down!

Munster’s full strength side just had a little bit too much experience for Sarries. Were clinical when they needed to be and O’Mahony took the try well. Sarries unfortunately wasted some good ball inside Munster’s 22 and that was the difference.

Arno Botha’s red card deserved by letter of the law, presented Saracens an opportunity at the last to go for the draw but our line-out was poor all day and we ballsed up the chance!

Didn’t come as a shock that Romain Poite was poor for both teams!

I think Munster could go far in the competition.

 

EDIT: Conor Murray was on my flight home to Heathrow this morning. Wonder what he’s up to!

Edited by westred1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
45 minutes ago, westred1 said:

Despite the low score, I thought it was a good game contested in great spirit especially with the torrential conditions. Pelted it down!

Munster’s full strength side just had a little bit too much experience for Sarries. Were clinical when they needed to be and O’Mahony took the try well. Sarries unfortunately wasted some good ball inside Munster’s 22 and that was the difference.

Arno Botha’s red card deserved by letter of the law, presented Saracens an opportunity at the last to go for the draw but our line-out was poor all day and we ballsed up the chance!

Didn’t come as a shock that Romain Poite was poor for both teams!

I think Munster could go far in the competition.

 

EDIT: Conor Murray was on my flight home to Heathrow this morning. Wonder what he’s up to!

I'll hopefully catch up in the week. The draw at home to Racing has stuffed us I fear. We are trying to play a more expansive game with Larkham on board but yesterday obviously wasn't the day for it. I think we'll do really well to get out of the pool with the two tough away games.

Botha can't have any complaints, it was total stupidity. Poite is certainly no friend of Munster going back many years!

Not sure about Murray. All I know is that his contract is up in 2022.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 08/12/2019 at 12:47, MichaelRobartes said:

I'll hopefully catch up in the week. The draw at home to Racing has stuffed us I fear. We are trying to play a more expansive game with Larkham on board but yesterday obviously wasn't the day for it. I think we'll do really well to get out of the pool with the two tough away games.

Botha can't have any complaints, it was total stupidity. Poite is certainly no friend of Munster going back many years!

Not sure about Murray. All I know is that his contract is up in 2022.

Nothing untoward with Murray... was in London for an Adidas shoot 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, westred1 said:

Nothing untoward with Murray... was in London for an Adidas shoot 

Sorry, I wasn't implying that. I should have said that it must have been a personal or professional engagement. 

I expect Sarries to go a lot closer to full strength this week. What do you reckon?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, MichaelRobartes said:

Sorry, I wasn't implying that. I should have said that it must have been a personal or professional engagement. 

I expect Sarries to go a lot closer to full strength this week. What do you reckon?

Ahh no, I just mean I found out so thought I’d share.

Yeah, I think so. It’ll be like a Test match

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sportsnews/article-7810053/Premiership-Rugby-hold-independent-reviews-salary-cap-regulations.html

Looks like the regs will be tightened, if anything.

Also like the below- double bubble of points dedction for past 3 seasons, plus maybe having to sell/release playuers to ensure compliance?

I'd actually accept if they were under an equivalent of a transfer embargo and had to release- even if release cost pushed up total wage bill for this season- as it would weaken them on the pitch, in addition to the 35 point penalty.

Quote

Meanwhile, PRL have confirmed they are in 'active dialogue' with Saracens about 'additional measures' to ensure their compliance this season.

 

Edited by Mr Popodopolous

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/12/2019 at 22:34, westred1 said:

Ahh no, I just mean I found out so thought I’d share.

Yeah, I think so. It’ll be like a Test match

It was! I thought we played really well, a far cry from our last few matches against something like a full-strength Sarries. Especially with no Pete or Killer and with Beirne and Ryan forced off early. You can already see Larkham and Rowntree's influence. We could be a handy side next year. Should have kicked the goal at the end for the LBP. If we don't win in Paris our goose is cooked. 

On another note, they have to review the seedings. It's crazy that 3 of the best sides in the competition can end up in the same pool. I don't mind the league winners getting top seeds but European performances over the last few seasons should be taken into account as well 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's rolling on...take note EFL!!

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2020/jan/06/exeter-will-give-share-saracens-cap-fine-charity-rugby-union

Or wage reductions, depending on what players accept...I'd still accept releasing them even if the initial cost of writing them off takes them over the limit, so that they cannot benefit on the pitch- and the Rugby equivalent of a soft embargo to ensure continued compliance too please.

It's about time a certain sport and Governing body took note...

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/2020/01/06/saracens-may-have-dismantle-squad-warns-new-chief-executive/

Granted the headline is a bit clickbait but it shows that they're not out of it it yet...good. No free passes!

Oh yes...Rugby isn't my first sport so I don't know how important any of those guys are or if they're fringe players but good news! EFL should have similar powers tbh.

 

Edited by Mr Popodopolous

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Rumoured that Kruis is off to Japan as well.

Interesting that Wray and Sarries claimed to be in line with the cap for next season. That's clearly not the case with Griffiths acknowledging that players will need to be let go and the wage bill needs to be decreased.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If only the EFL would enforce their own regulations in the same way- taking the March Projected Accounts for the Existing Season as the Benchmark, forcing to prove through disclosure impending transfers, or asset sales etc otherwise it's not necessarily accepted.

Edited by Mr Popodopolous
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, MichaelRobartes said:

 

To be honest, I hooe they do get relegated. That squad has been built by cheating so should be broken up. It would be wrong that a team who abided by the rules got relegated this year. 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sounds very ominous, especially this:

The contract season has already run for seven months - since the start of July - with all the money paid to players who have featured for the club during that period counting towards the cap.

Furthermore, any money paid as compensation to players for cutting short contracts would also be included in the wage bill

 

Surely under those terms it's impossible to achieve 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Would be somewhat ironic if the mooted 'ringfencing' of the Premiership coincided with Saracens relegation....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, MichaelRobartes said:

Either Rugbypass have blown a hole that you can see from the moon in their credibility or Sarries are in a world of pain.

The BBC are reporting it as well, and I suspect the papers will have it tomorrow.

They're stuffed.

12 minutes ago, BanburyRed said:

Would be somewhat ironic if the mooted 'ringfencing' of the Premiership coincided with Saracens relegation....

Might be on hold for a year now. Though I reckon a few of the Premiership owners might feel tempted to say "tough shit" and go ahead with it, especially the ones who've directly suffered as a result of their breaching the rules.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Northern Red said:

The BBC are reporting it as well, and I suspect the papers will have it tomorrow.

They're stuffed.

Might be on hold for a year now. Though I reckon a few of the Premiership owners might feel tempted to say "tough shit" and go ahead with it, especially the ones who've directly suffered as a result of their breaching the rules. 

Ring-fence it without salarycens they've been cheating for over 3 years why should they be allowed to compete at the top level. 

I do hope they get relegated because they've gained an unfair advantage over others and you look at their squad this season still full of internationals -35 points is nothing for that squad. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Confirmed they'll be relegated this season!

Some weight off Bristol's shoulders with no threat of relegation.

Now, any good players we can pinch??

I can't believe that the Farrell and Vunipolas of this world will stick around in the Championship, even if it's only for one season?

Inevitably they'll manage to retain a fair chunk of their squad though and will piss promotion. Will still set them back years from their current position though.

Those players must surely be feeling very let down by the Saracens management... 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
30 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Confirmed they'll be relegated this season!

Some weight off Bristol's shoulders with no threat of relegation.

Now, any good players we can pinch??

I can't believe that the Farrell and Vunipolas of this world will stick around in the Championship, even if it's only for one season?

Inevitably they'll manage to retain a fair chunk of their squad though and will piss promotion. Will still set them back years from their current position though.

Those players must surely be feeling very let down by the Saracens management... 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/51164177

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Was going to post on the ffp thread, but the EFL should look at recruiting the team at RFU that deal with financial controls and dishing out penalties. 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Great news, shows that there is no time for cheating in the game.

What should happen now is they get stripped of all their titles and forced to release anybody on over 200k a year for next season imo

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
34 minutes ago, Hare Island said:

For FFP. Could be a yardstick for Derby’s punishment.

Wayne Rooney's Derby*

WRDCFC is also correct.

😏

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...