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Diesel ban near AG (merged)


Red Army 75

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24 minutes ago, RedM said:

I haven’t read all the article, but is this all diesel vehicles or just privately owned ones? If it is all, and I think it is, then what about all the company diesel vehicles used for deliveries and services, eg Water, electric etc. A family member works for a utility company and he is in and out of the city centre several times a day. What is he meant to do, park up and carry his tools ( not possible by the way)

Not just privately owned ones, RedM.

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2 hours ago, spudski said:

A good start would be for more Companies to get people to work from home. Many don't need to go into an office anymore with today's technology.

A lot do don't they? 1.5m people work from home in the UK so say the latest figures. That's not a silver bullet though and comes with its own issues of productivity and mental health issues. 

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1 hour ago, OneTeamInBristol said:

That's incorrect, you can buy a number of brand new Volvo's with a turbo diesel engine as well as turbocharged and supercharged petrol engines.

As well as mild-hybrid petrol and diesel.

Yeah looks like they went back on their 2019 promise. 50% of all sales to be electric by 2025 now https://electrek.co/2018/04/25/volvo-electrification-plan-fully-electric/ 

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3 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Your situation sounds less than ideal, and naturally I have sympathy with it and people in your boat.

However, OTOH wider issue wise- have you any better ideas? I'm not fully sold on it myself as it goes.

I understand the congestion/pollution charge approach - I have to deal with it if (very rarely) I venture into London. But banning them is not practicable in my eyes.

I generally take the train if coming to Ashton Gate but I have a daughter at UWE who has "lots of stuff" that I have to move around! Not tried your suggestion of getting to Bristol by boat yet but sounds like an interesting challenge ;)

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29 minutes ago, Nibor said:

Move house - Doesn't solve the issue, as Mrs Maesknoll works a mile or so from home and she'd then be the one driving across town, pointless.

Switch jobs - Happily, if there was any work in South Bristol that paid the same, with the same terms and conditions, there isn't.

Buy a non diesel runabout - who is going to pay for that?  If I bought an old petrol runabout, I doubt its any cleaner than my new(ish) Euro 5 diesel, which was widely promoted as the way to go, to change that and offer no solution to people who bought into it, is not very helpful.

Car share - Flexi hours, working from home some days, working away and plenty of meetings in other parts of the country, not practical even if I could find someone who works anywhere near me and wants to work the same hours.

All some level of inconvenient, sure, but less so than dying. - by inconvenient, you mean prohibitively expensive 

 

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41 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

A lot do don't they? 1.5m people work from home in the UK so say the latest figures. That's not a silver bullet though and comes with its own issues of productivity and mental health issues. 

It's not many in a population close to 70 million.

I'd also be doing what they do in America. School buses...get every mother off the roads in the morning and afternoon. It's not Rocket Science is it...so many things can be altered.

What's boiled my piss is modern diesel cars are the least of our worries. Council should be making things run smoother not harder.

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Carrot before stick required.

 Get a decent public transport and parking strategy in place then ban all non-electric vehicles from the City Centre.

 

Pathetic that I still can’t use the Long Ashton Park and Ride to park my car and walk to AG. The well-used ‘football special’ serving NW Bristol withdrawn at the last minute with no explanation this Season. Even worse, the very limited  £100 million plus Metro Bus (which seems to take the most tortuous routes involving as many high-congestion junctions as possible to get from A-B) won’t pick anyone up from around AG on matchdays, meaning a long walk into the City Centre to catch another bus back to Westbury.

Just three examples there of Bristol’s inept transportation system and what a total out-of-his -depth idiot your Mayor is. 

 

 

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25 minutes ago, RedRock said:

Carrot before stick required.

 Get a decent public transport and parking strategy in place then ban all non-electric vehicles from the City Centre.

 

Pathetic that I still can’t use the Long Ashton Park and Ride to park my car and walk to AG. The well-used ‘football special’ serving NW Bristol withdrawn at the last minute with no explanation this Season. Even worse, the very limited  £100 million plus Metro Bus (which seems to take the most tortuous routes involving as many high-congestion junctions as possible to get from A-B) won’t pick anyone up from around AG on matchdays, meaning a long walk into the City Centre to catch another bus back to Westbury.

Just three examples there of Bristol’s inept transportation Governance system and what a total out-of-his -depth idiot your Mayor is. 

 

 

Rest assured, it started well before the last couple of Mayors. ?

Pretty appropriate to amend for accuracy too.

Bus into the centre though? No. 24 will do that, from the park.

Couldn't agree more about the nonsense of a lack of metro bus on Matchday though.

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25 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Rest assured, it started well before the last couple of Mayors. ?

Pretty appropriate to amend for accuracy too.

Bus into the centre though? No. 24 will do that, from the park.

Couldn't agree more about the nonsense of a lack of metro bus on Matchday though.

Accept that. The others didn’t ban cars from the City Centre though.

Is the No24 the one that stops near the entry to the park by the Natch Wall? Always seems that demand outstrips the supply of buses if so. 

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3 minutes ago, RedRock said:

Accept that. The others didn’t ban cars from the City Centre though.

Is the No24 the one that stops near the entry to the park by the Natch Wall? Always seems that demand outstrips the supply of buses if so. 

Government targets play a role- suppose part of it is something drastic to show or try to bring about compliance?

That's it yeah. Think lately there have been some double deckers for it, which helps- but yes, demand can also outstrip supply atm (unsurprisingly) and may involve a bit of a wait.

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59 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Government targets play a role- suppose part of it is something drastic to show or try to bring about compliance?

That's it yeah. Think lately there have been some double deckers for it, which helps- but yes, demand can also outstrip supply atm (unsurprisingly) and may involve a bit of a wait.

Cheers for the response.

I think though when demand outstrips supply for public transport you buy more buses to make that mode of transport attractive for potential future users, not just move to prohibit people using certain types of car.

Seems also this is more of a political than a science-based action. My Euro6 diesel is far cleaner than most petrol cars on the road.

 

 

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4 hours ago, spudski said:

It's not many in a population close to 70 million.

About 32 million working adults in the UK. The number of home workers is increasing year on year but I don't see why that has to be the answer when there will be cleaner vehicles available to the masses in the next 5-10 years.

4 hours ago, spudski said:

I'd also be doing what they do in America. School buses...get every mother off the roads in the morning and afternoon. It's not Rocket Science is it...so many things can be altered.

What's boiled my piss is modern diesel cars are the least of our worries. Council should be making things run smoother not harder.

They are contributing towards deadly levels of air pollution so I think we should be concerned and take action. We need to look to the future, not be stuck in the past!

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Maybe a better starting point, until public transport or electric vehicles become viable and affordable, would a scheme as in France, Crit’air, whereby a sticker in your windscreen denotes the Euro compliance standard and when you can and can’t enter Paris and other large cities with older more polluting vehicles.  Even visitors have to get them - got one in the van I take to France,.

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The sudden move to ban all diesels seems to me to be an over-reaction (due to lateness) of the current elected mayor. A large City Hall-shaped hammer to crack a festering nut. What might happen to these glorious plans if Marv gets the same treatment as Red Trousers? Who will take the baton?

And as for the congestion charge, I have this strange vision: instead of employing state-of-the-art ANPR and contactless payment systems, we will end up with lots of little roadside booths at the boundaries with council operatives peeking out of them, complete with a hi-vis jacket and a leather pouch to take the money. Traffic queues will extend to Swindon and Weston, causing even more pollution. You heard it here first.

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But diesel is better for the environment apparently. Less co2, and the wonderful eu put strict limits on co2 emissions in the nineties to tackle global warming (around the same time as vw were pushing their unique tdi engine coincidently). So, for the last 20+ years we've been encouraged to buy diesel cars. In fact it seems as if every other car on the road is a German built diesel. 

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8 hours ago, RedRock said:

Accept that. The others didn’t ban cars from the City Centre though.

Is the No24 the one that stops near the entry to the park by the Natch Wall? Always seems that demand outstrips the supply of buses if so. 

Psst,  tip,  .. catch no 24 from outside The Robins (Ashton vale) just a few minutes walk, beat the crowds, virtually guaranteed a seat... short walk well worth the effort imho. 

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Yikes! Thought the ban area would be the City Centre!

They’re cutting the City in half!!!!

Why the **** has Bridge Valley Road, Cumberland Basin and the Portway (part) been included? Traffic chaos.

Imagine the drivers going down The Portway or M32 and slamming the breaks on and performing a u turn cause they’ve  got to the Clean Air Zone!!!

 

 

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Mayor Rees was on 5 live yesterday evening just before 5. Sounded like it was a panic measure for he had to do something. 
He was asked about workmen getting into centre for work, he said they were working on a scheme to sort it, which also helped the poor and vulnerable so they wouldn’t be penalised.

Also he said scheme would be 7am till 3pm, but never said why those times.

He didn’t sound very convincing and was more interested in saying he was treated unfairly last time he was on and this is the solution but had no answers to the solution.

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I've read suggestions online or in articles, I don't know- possibly even mooted plans- not specific to Bristol- of fines for idling vehicles beyond a certain point in time.

So leaving engines idling or having them idle during congestion may not be the excuse now, unless of course it's impossible to avoid.

https://www.confused.com/on-the-road/driving-law/fines-for-idling

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/may/14/patience-exhausted-drivers-who-sit-with-engines-idling-could-face-instant-fines

In Germany, I read online that it is indeed illegal to keep engines idling, but especially in town centres- warning notices too. Think you have 40 seconds.

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Gees i was back in the UK three months ago and to me then I could not see any cars that ran on gas or did I see car parks in any shopping. Centres not providing hook up point points for electric cars.  

 

I could be in correct as I was bought up in Stockwood and then Yate and we were then a bit behind the times but we always supported City

 

COYR

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5 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Hopefully the money will be used to offset carbon emissions, planting of trees etc 

So why not let private cars in and charge them?  To me it’s a nonsense, either diesel engines pollute and should be banned, or they don’t, if carbon offsetting is so effective, why not offset all vehicles?

None of it makes sense to me, I have a modern Euro classified diesel, I was looking on eBay last night, I could buy a 40 year old MOT and tax exempt Land Rover, with a Rover V8 in it and drive that around in the diesel ban zone - I know what emits more pollution and the MOT exempt vehicle will never have to met an emissions test. 

There must be a better way and if this gets the nod through, without a substantial improvement in public transport, then it’s going to cause a lot of people hardship.

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Presumably some commercial vehicles are allowed to pay due to necessity.  You can't really have petrol fuelled goods vehicles all that quickly but I guess people still want shops to have stock and so on?

Tree planting doesn't really link up here, this is about NO2 not CO2.

I'm not sure how a tax exemption gets around this, it isn't related to the emissions bands as far as I can tell - it's simply all privately owned diesel vehicles?

 

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1 minute ago, Nibor said:

Presumably some commercial vehicles are allowed to pay due to necessity.  You can't really have petrol fuelled goods vehicles all that quickly but I guess people still want shops to have stock and so on?

Tree planting doesn't really link up here, this is about NO2 not CO2.

I'm not sure how a tax exemption gets around this, it isn't related to the emissions bands as far as I can tell - it's simply all privately owned diesel vehicles?

 

It wasn’t the tax exemption that was the point really, it was the fact that I can take a V8 40 year old petrol engined vehicle that has no emissions control on it, that emits more of every pollutant and spend all day driving it round the zone, whereas modern diesels, which have EGR, DPF and SCR fitted, meet strict emissions controls would be banned.  It doesn’t add up.  Even in Paris and similar cities, the modern diesels can run, they ban the older more polluting vehicles.

I saw, a somewhat facetious/ tongue in cheek response earlier on another platform, where someone was asking about the boats in the harbour, they’ll all be diesel, with no emissions control, the trains at Temple Meads, again all diesel and all the diesel operated plant that operating in the area.  I have no idea of the figures for those engines and the emissions they produce, but it all adds to the total.

 

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