Jump to content

Welcome to One Team in Bristol - Bristol City Forums

Welcome to One Team in Bristol - Bristol City Forums, like most online communities you must register to view or post in our community, but don't worry this is a simple free process that requires minimal information for you to signup. Be a part of One Team in Bristol - Bristol City Forums by signing in or creating an account.

  • Start new topics and reply to others
  • Full access to all forums (not all viewable as guest)
  • Subscribe to topics and forums to get email updates
  • Get your own profile page and make new friends
  • Send personal messages to other members.
  • Support OTIB with a premium membership

Diesel ban near AG (merged)


Recommended Posts

1 minute ago, Maesknoll Red said:

It wasn’t the tax exemption that was the point really, it was the fact that I can take a V8 40 year old petrol engined vehicle that has no emissions control on it, that emits more of every pollutant and spend all day driving it round the zone, whereas modern diesels, which have EGR, DPF and SCR fitted, meet strict emissions controls would be banned.  It doesn’t add up.  Even in Paris and similar cities, the modern diesels can run, they ban the older more polluting vehicles.

Does it produce more NO2 than a diesel?  I genuinely don't know.

Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Nibor said:

Does it produce more NO2 than a diesel?  I genuinely don't know.

Older petrol engines, produce more of everything than a modern diesel.  I would think that from a health point of view, particulates are more of a concern and the limits on the latest diesels engines is the same as petrol.

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

This is just another shot in the ongoing war against cars; anyone with a petrol car has no reason to feel smug because you're next.

There are 38 million registered cars in the UK, existing electrical generation is about 5% above peak, and charging places number in the hundreds.

When those 38 million petrol and diesel cars get pushed off the road do you think that they will be replaced by 38 million electric cars all draining the grid overnight in their newly built allocated charging places?

If so think again. Owning a car will return to being a rarity.

You're going to be on the bus.

Link to post
Share on other sites
On ‎29‎/‎10‎/‎2019 at 08:40, Red Army 75 said:

Yes.

On ‎29‎/‎10‎/‎2019 at 21:30, Maesknoll Red said:

Add to that, people have been encouraged to buy diesel cars and now face being penalised.  

.

And we were encouraged financially to do so.

On ‎29‎/‎10‎/‎2019 at 21:30, Maesknoll Red said:

No way would I use public transport to get to/from work, it would take far too long.

I cycle and use the bus to work. The bus service is poor. 

My partner has to drive.

We as a family will be financially significantly penalised because we have a vehicle that is not more harmful to the environment/health than the average petrol using vehicle.

Changes if logical and equal should take place in stages over five years. 

This is draconian and pushed by idealogues. 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, Maesknoll Red said:

There must be a better way and if this gets the nod through, without a substantial improvement in public transport, then it’s going to cause a lot of people hardship.

I certainly agree with this. If anything, public transport substantially improving should come first and then this second.

2 hours ago, Eddie Hitler said:

This is just another shot in the ongoing war against cars; anyone with a petrol car has no reason to feel smug because you're next.

There are 38 million registered cars in the UK, existing electrical generation is about 5% above peak, and charging places number in the hundreds.

When those 38 million petrol and diesel cars get pushed off the road do you think that they will be replaced by 38 million electric cars all draining the grid overnight in their newly built allocated charging places?

If so think again. Owning a car will return to being a rarity.

You're going to be on the bus.

I suspect lifestyles will need to change quite a bit over the coming decades, is the unpalatable long and short of it IMO.

1 hour ago, Cowshed said:

Yes.

And we were encouraged financially to do so.

I cycle and use the bus to work. The bus service is poor

My partner has to drive.

We as a family will be financially significantly penalised because we have a vehicle that is not more harmful to the environment/health than the average petrol using vehicle.

Changes if logical and equal should take place in stages over five years. 

This is draconian and pushed by idealogues. 

It certainly is, especially when you get towards the edges and just outside of major cities- but even in Bristol it is pretty bang average at best.

Tend to agree BUT at the same time, Bristol has to be seen to be doing something significant, drastic-  we're clearly failing in certain criteria and targets.

https://airqualitynews.com/2019/10/02/bristols-clean-air-zone-plans-delayed-for-third-time/

Edited by Mr Popodopolous
Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

I certainly agree with this. If anything, public transport substantially improving should come first and then this second.

I suspect lifestyles will need to change quite a bit over the coming decades, is the unpalatable long and short of it IMO.

It certainly is, especially when you get towards the edges and just outside of major cities- but even in Bristol it is pretty bang average at best.

Tend to agree BUT at the same time, Bristol has to be seen to be doing something significant, drastic-  we're clearly failing in certain criteria and targets.

https://airqualitynews.com/2019/10/02/bristols-clean-air-zone-plans-delayed-for-third-time/

I agree with the need to do something but politicians and "eco-activists" are not being honest about what doing that something will mean; there will be a major reduction in personal quality of life as you acknowledge.

In the short term these actions however are falling disproprtionately upon the poor.  The current Duke of Westminster is not driving a fifteen year old diesel in the first place but for some people keeping such a car running is all that they can afford to do.  They're not in a position to pop out and buy a £35k Tesla 3 so they now have a problem if they need to drive through central Bristol for their work.

Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Eddie Hitler said:

I agree with the need to do something but politicians and "eco-activists" are not being honest about what doing that something will mean; there will be a major reduction in personal quality of life as you acknowledge.

In the short term these actions however are falling disproprtionately upon the poor.  The current Duke of Westminster is not driving a fifteen year old diesel in the first place but for some people keeping such a car running is all that they can afford to do.  They're not in a position to pop out and buy a £35k Tesla 3 so they now have a problem if they need to drive through central Bristol for their work.

Yes, agreed- a lack of honesty for sure.

Agreed too- a combination of poor and expensive public transport and this move could have significant knock-on effects,

Think it said something about March 2021- public (by which I mean Government not council) led subsidies maybe- should perhaps become a national thing over time and not falling on one city.

About the being seen to be done thing...part of me thinks it's to buy time- grand gesture, buy time- big burden for one city though- especially given many councils skint these days!

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

I live in Hampshire  and drive a 200 mile round trip to home games. Beforehand  I usually visit my daughter who lives opposite Greville Smyth Park or I have a pint in Hotwells. Both of these locations are in proposed Central Ban Zone being introduced by the council.

As I have a diesel car this will mean I can't do either of these.  Should I just give up my season ticket and stop seeing my daughter?

Public transport is not a viable option for me.  

Has there been no local opposition to this?  What about all the residents who have a diesel car already? 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Nongazeuse said:

I live in Hampshire  and drive a 200 mile round trip to home games. Beforehand  I usually visit my daughter who lives opposite Greville Smyth Park or I have a pint in Hotwells. Both of these locations are in proposed Central Ban Zone being introduced by the council.

As I have a diesel car this will mean I can't do either of these.  Should I just give up my season ticket and stop seeing my daughter?

Public transport is not a viable option for me.  

Has there been no local opposition to this?  What about all the residents who have a diesel car already? 

You'll have to forgive the council, as banning things is just about all they are capable of. An integrated, clean and efficient public transport network (like we had before the war), not so much. 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Nongazeuse said:

I live in Hampshire  and drive a 200 mile round trip to home games. Beforehand  I usually visit my daughter who lives opposite Greville Smyth Park or I have a pint in Hotwells. Both of these locations are in proposed Central Ban Zone being introduced by the council.

As I have a diesel car this will mean I can't do either of these.  Should I just give up my season ticket and stop seeing my daughter?

Public transport is not a viable option for me.  

Has there been no local opposition to this?  What about all the residents who have a diesel car already? 

Why can’t you park just south of Greville Smyth Park and see your daughter there? The zone from south to north starts at the park so you can park south of it.

Im sure there will be opposition to it but I agree with what Bristol council are doing so there won’t be any from me

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, RedDave said:

Why can’t you park just south of Greville Smyth Park and see your daughter there? The zone from south to north starts at the park so you can park south of it.

Im sure there will be opposition to it but I agree with what Bristol council are doing so there won’t be any from me

Or why doesn't he get his daughter to live in a tent at the side of the M32??

We shouldn't have to change the way we go about our lives because of the council's inability to come up with a better solution.  

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Things do need to change but we need a viable and affordable alternative before this is considered yet another tax raising tactic. 

Electric cars are a solution but no secondhand market exists yet and the thought of everyone who lives in flats having extension leads going way down to the parking area to recharge their car is another reality check the tree huggers of this world haven’t considered. 

I usually ride my bike 5 miles to the ground but a time will come when that’s not an option for me and public transport is currently useless. 

Many years ago (30?) I wrote into the EP letters page to suggest the government made all public transport free to minimise private car use but it obviously got ignored. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

I've not looked at the detail, but for those interested, most councils who implement conjestion charging and the like make vehicles registered for disabled use exempt. I expect this will be the case here. 

Although with Bristol Council they probably haven't even thought about it yet. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, OneTeamInBristol said:

Or why doesn't he get his daughter to live in a tent at the side of the M32??

We shouldn't have to change the way we go about our lives because of the council's inability to come up with a better solution.  

The council should do this ban AND improve public transport. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, OneTeamInBristol said:

Or why doesn't he get his daughter to live in a tent at the side of the M32??

We shouldn't have to change the way we go about our lives because of the council's inability to come up with a better solution.  

If you hand the council an idea that will get them money and stop pollution there's no way they're going to turn it down. It ticks all their boxes

Similar to the litter police that were here last year. 

Edited by Sturny
Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, OneTeamInBristol said:

Or why doesn't he get his daughter to live in a tent at the side of the M32??

We shouldn't have to change the way we go about our lives because of the council's inability to come up with a better solution.  

Will their scheme include the council compensating people who own diesel cars and have to sell them in order to live/work in the exclusion zone or will they lay on a horse and cart? 

  • Haha 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Sturny said:

If you hand the council an idea that will get them money and stop pollution there's no way they're going to turn it down. It ticks all their boxes

Similar to the litter police that were here last year. 

Exactly. So long as they can secure votes, they have very little interest in investing in public services over the long term unless a huge number of votes materialise. 

Helping the homeless secures very few votes so they don't bother with it. Etc. 

Arguably, that's a problem with the electorate more than the council. 

Edited by CotswoldRed
Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Natchfever said:

Will their scheme include the council compensating people who own diesel cars and have to sell them in order to live/work in the exclusion zone or will they lay on a horse and cart? 

One thing I wouldn’t mind is a slightly increased notice period. Currently this is due March 2021. 16 months notice to sell ones diesel car and buy petrol isn’t great. Feels like March 2022 would be fairer. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, RedDave said:

Why can’t you park just south of Greville Smyth Park and see your daughter there? The zone from south to north starts at the park so you can park south of it.

Im sure there will be opposition to it but I agree with what Bristol council are doing so there won’t be any from me

Park at the P&R in Brislington? Or buy a non diesel car? 

They are trying to avoid things like this? 

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/air-pollution-it-is-a-question-of-life-and-death-of-crores-of-people-in-delhi-ncr-region-says-sc/articleshow/71939053.cms

I do agree however that we need viable alternatives before we can make a difference. In the same way I appreciate what Extinction Rebellion and others are trying to do, we can't all go back to a pre - industrial state overnight. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Red DNA said:

Many years ago (30?) I wrote into the EP letters page to suggest the government made all public transport free to minimise private car use but it obviously got ignored.

You're not R. L. Smith of Calcott Rd, Knowle are you by any chance? Used to be in the EP Letter's Page practically every day! 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

I can’t see this happening. There will have to be so many cameras to cover every road on the edges of the zones that it will be almost impossible to police, people will just find more rat runs and ways to avoid the charges. Also the fact that it is between certain times will just push the rush hour to different times.

And as people say, what about residents of the areas concerned?

Also doesn’t there have to be an alternative route available so people aren’t forced to proceed to where they will be faced with paying a charge for straying into an area they don’t mean to?

I can see all this being proposed as the Council need to tell the government what they intend to do about pollution. People will then object and the council will eventually offer a watered down version to please the people, but it’s really because they cannot afford to implement the scheme anyway. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Port Said Red said:

Park at the P&R in Brislington? Or buy a non diesel car? 

They are trying to avoid things like this? 

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/air-pollution-it-is-a-question-of-life-and-death-of-crores-of-people-in-delhi-ncr-region-says-sc/articleshow/71939053.cms

I do agree however that we need viable alternatives before we can make a difference. In the same way I appreciate what Extinction Rebellion and others are trying to do, we can't all go back to a pre - industrial state overnight. 

The point I have is that diesel cars are not solely the problem.

A new diesel car puts out 112g of co2 per km (on average).

I have a petrol that puts out 243g per km.

But I can drive around all day wherever I choose, luckily.

Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, RedM said:

I can’t see this happening. There will have to be so many cameras to cover every road on the edges of the zones that it will be almost impossible to police, people will just find more rat runs and ways to avoid the charges. Also the fact that it is between certain times will just push the rush hour to different times.

And as people say, what about residents of the areas concerned?

Also doesn’t there have to be an alternative route available so people aren’t forced to proceed to where they will be faced with paying a charge for straying into an area they don’t mean to?

I can see all this being proposed as the Council need to tell the government what they intend to do about pollution. People will then object and the council will eventually offer a watered down version to please the people, but it’s really because they cannot afford to implement the scheme anyway. 

Why can’t they just manage it like London do with the congestion zone? 

Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Eddie Hitler said:

This is just another shot in the ongoing war against cars; anyone with a petrol car has no reason to feel smug because you're next.

There are 38 million registered cars in the UK, existing electrical generation is about 5% above peak, and charging places number in the hundreds.

When those 38 million petrol and diesel cars get pushed off the road do you think that they will be replaced by 38 million electric cars all draining the grid overnight in their newly built allocated charging places?

If so think again. Owning a car will return to being a rarity.

You're going to be on the bus.

Salus populi suprema lex esto.

  • Like 1
  • Haha 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, OneTeamInBristol said:

The point I have is that diesel cars are not solely the problem.

A new diesel car puts out 112g of co2 per km (on average).

I have a petrol that puts out 243g per km.

But I can drive around all day wherever I choose, luckily.

Exactly. A modern diesel car surely emits less than some of the older petrol ones?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...