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Atmosphere


frenchred
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It’s difficult.

Modern football is now only a stones throw away from a sterile waste of time. Within tens years, sky will pay a think tank to ponder why it’s popularity has declined.

Swearing in grounds is, IMO, closer than ever to being banned.

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1 minute ago, 054123 said:

It’s difficult.

Modern football is now only a stones throw away from a sterile waste of time. Within tens years, sky will pay a think tank to ponder why it’s popularity has declined.

Swearing in grounds is, IMO, closer than ever to being banned.

So why do the likes of Germany have such better atmosphere's?

Different laws in place?

Probably a multitude of reasons tbh.

 

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4 minutes ago, 054123 said:

It’s difficult.

Modern football is now only a stones throw away from a sterile waste of time. Within tens years, sky will pay a think tank to ponder why it’s popularity has declined.

Swearing in grounds is, IMO, closer than ever to being banned.

You don’t have to swear to create an atmosphere?

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1 minute ago, spudski said:

So why do the likes of Germany have such better atmosphere's?

Different laws in place?

Probably a multitude of reasons tbh.

 

German football is still allowed to be a tribal affair with the vast majority of supporters getting behind that mentality. 
 

Not in this country.

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19 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Explain what you mean.......are you saying that UK football fans aren’t tribal?  :dunno:

The natural tribalism is being slowly killed off. 
 

Sky like to tell you that forest v Derby is a big game, but the truth is, everything that made it that historically, is everything they don’t want. 
 

What made Liverpool v Utd the fixture it is, is that they genuinely despised each other with genuine reasons (probably wrongly) behind it.

You cannot just create that artificially. That is a level of emotion and depth of feeling that is almost gone now. It’s a depth of emotion that when you score you just want to run on the pitch to celebrate, or when you concede detest that player and tell him so.

I go to city because I genuinely love them. If it wasn’t city, I wouldn’t go to football, it’s that crap.

Yet in the 80’s I went to villa park a few times and it was intoxicating. I’ll never forget a game v Everton there. Everton’s lot came in late and Villa went mad. Game delayed. It was genuinely one of the most exciting things I have ever seen. When Villa took the lead, I thought the holt end shook as they surged forward. Everton scored later and their enclosure went berserk, I remember them just clambering up onto the fencing and bouncing around behind, simply unbelievable. I could easily have become an Everton fan that day, whether they were in division 1 or 4. Not like now where people genuinely think that football is something called the premier league.

If the same scenes had happened this weekend it would be ‘disgraceful’ with social media and the press spending all week vilifying the fans. 
 

And yet by the weekend they would desperately trying to you tell how great football is and why you must subscribe to their channel 😂

Edited by 054123
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20 minutes ago, 054123 said:

German football is still allowed to be a tribal affair with the vast majority of supporters getting behind that mentality. 
 

Not in this country.

Tribal without the violence in the main. They get behind their teams and support...have a good time and that's it.

Football in Germany is seen as a great way of bonding the community. Prices encourage the common man, councils help with transport and parking. 

Here, it's a brand and business...Councils do everything they can to discourage getting to a ground and make it hard. They don't see the value of bringing the community together.

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2 minutes ago, spudski said:

Tribal without the violence in the main. They get behind their teams and support...have a good time and that's it.

Football in Germany is seen as a great way of bonding the community. Prices encourage the common man, councils help with transport and parking. 

Here, it's a brand and business...Councils do everything they can to discourage getting to a ground and make it hard. They don't see the value of bringing the community together.

But the important thing is that it’s driven by the fans not Sky.

They have also realised that tv needs football, not the other way around.

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2 minutes ago, Bristol Rob said:

And drink!

So blame lies with the previous generation of fans who displayed behaviours that ruined it for everyone else!*

 

*This should get 'em going.

😂 exactly.

Imagine if everyone was allowed to punish the present because of the actions of the past.

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I don't think it's so much punishment of the present for problems from the past.

I think that in 1989, things were actually problematic- probably needed some drastic measures to stabilise things at that time. That time has now passed though!

Still, I suppose an individual home Secretary or Sports Minister- OTT and risk averse though it in some ways is- doesn't want to risk rolling back some of the laws, only for issues to start again- Political disastrously for them, that's one element to it IMO.

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1 hour ago, 054123 said:

But the important thing is that it’s driven by the fans not Sky.

They have also realised that tv needs football, not the other way around.

It’s an interesting debate. I agree with several of your points on this thread, whereas other make you sound like more of an aggrieved former hooligan element. 
TV (Sky) is a major factor in the new generations perception of football, which is a brand now. 
 

Society itself has changed immeasurably, for better or worse is subject to opinion. 
There is no doubt whatsoever that football grounds nowadays are far safer and more family friendly than ever dreamt possible in the 80’s. 
 

I like a more raucous atmosphere myself, but I’m thankful for the safer environment, when I take my 5 year old. 
 

Times change. One thing for sure though, sitting has never stopped anyone’s vocal chords working - so I think that’s a poor excuse. 
It’s more the fact that it’s no longer acceptable to behave the way people used too, and that has reduced the appeal to some of the more vocal/tribal demographic of football fans, in turn, making it more appealing to Mr & Mrs Xx and their young kids. 
 

Is it different..? Yes, massively. 
Is it worse..? That’s down to opinion, but increased attendances (despite cost) and far less public order issues, suggest that, like it or not, the powers that be will be delighted with the way it’s going and really lose too much sleep over someone not liking it anymore because they have to behave in a more socially acceptable manner. 
 

 

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I remember going to Ninian Park countless times, off the train walking down the middle of the road with hundreds of others, a few pints, great banter at the game, sing what you want and stood up all the time, great days at the match; heck even the same at Swindon and at countless grounds most of which are gone now.

 The matchday exp is gone for me, Its become boring and the last glowing embers went with the Eastend.

Sit down shut up is indeed not far away and I will probably never go again, glad I have some great memories though .....armchair supporter it is then. :tv_horror:

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21 minutes ago, glos old boy said:

I remember going to Ninian Park countless times, off the train walking down the middle of the road with hundreds of others, a few pints, great banter at the game, sing what you want and stood up all the time, great days at the match; heck even the same at Swindon and at countless grounds most of which are gone now.

 The matchday exp is gone for me, Its become boring and the last glowing embers went with the Eastend.

Sit down shut up is indeed not far away and I will probably never go again, glad I have some great memories though .....armchair supporter it is then. :tv_horror:

So you stop going to football so you can sit in front of the tv, but critisise football for losing its passion..?! 🤔

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1 hour ago, Bar BS3 said:

It’s an interesting debate. I agree with several of your points on this thread, whereas other make you sound like more of an aggrieved former hooligan element. 
TV (Sky) is a major factor in the new generations perception of football, which is a brand now. 
 

Society itself has changed immeasurably, for better or worse is subject to opinion. 
There is no doubt whatsoever that football grounds nowadays are far safer and more family friendly than ever dreamt possible in the 80’s. 
 

I like a more raucous atmosphere myself, but I’m thankful for the safer environment, when I take my 5 year old. 
 

Times change. One thing for sure though, sitting has never stopped anyone’s vocal chords working - so I think that’s a poor excuse. 
It’s more the fact that it’s no longer acceptable to behave the way people used too, and that has reduced the appeal to some of the more vocal/tribal demographic of football fans, in turn, making it more appealing to Mr & Mrs Xx and their young kids. 
 

Is it different..? Yes, massively. 
Is it worse..? That’s down to opinion, but increased attendances (despite cost) and far less public order issues, suggest that, like it or not, the powers that be will be delighted with the way it’s going and really lose too much sleep over someone not liking it anymore because they have to behave in a more socially acceptable manner. 
 

 

Completely agree.

Its mostly boring and rubbish. But that is only my opinion. I have always liked excitement and heightened emotions, they’re the little bits that make you feel alive and not merely going through the motions of existence.

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8 minutes ago, Major Isewater said:

There was a seige mentality in the past, the club was there to be supported , defended against anyone who wanted to bring her down.

The club was us , our neighbours and friends. 
 

It’s not the same today .

On a small scale, on occasion you can get it.

Felt a little like that first home game after Orr, Partridge and Brooker got sent to prison.

Additionally, Orr himself had been sent off at Northampton when fighting with Carey- yet we rallied and won 3-1- from a goal down. 

Then Brown- sentenced to community service gets the winner.

Opposition? Brighton- same ones who had denied us in 2004 at Millennium Stadium- revenge!

So yeah, not the same sure but on a lesser scale- think that week proved a bit of a catalyst for the season personally as we'd started terribly!

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30 minutes ago, Major Isewater said:

There was a seige mentality in the past, the club was there to be supported , defended against anyone who wanted to bring her down.

The club was us , our neighbours and friends. 
 

It’s not the same today .

And that mentality to some degree, has caused the downfall.

The fact so many Brits want to physically fight to defend the 'honour' of their club or 'Manor' as the stone Island brigade think is normal, is a massive problem.

That mentality has caused all the negative laws by the FA, Clubs and Councils. 

I find the comparison with Germany interesting. We as a nation are very close to the Germanic people. Even Hitler said we were the closest to being the same.

They love football, love drinking...yet they don't feel the need to fight over a football match.

Like Rugby, you can sit next to an away fan in the main stands. They are free to cheer when they score. Drink together...support together.

Both ends hold massive home and away ends. Full on passionate support...drinking together. No violence.

This article compares our culture's...worth reading to get a basic overview.

https://www.byfarthegreatestteam.com/posts/german-football-culture-v-english-culture/

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