Northern Red Posted November 12, 2019 Report Share Posted November 12, 2019 Just now, Super said: Gomez should have dropped him. I'm amused by the description of Sterling trying to grab Gomez by the neck when Gomez is half a foot taller than him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted November 12, 2019 Report Share Posted November 12, 2019 Good write up on sky sports highlighting what happened and Henderson stepping in via a conference call, also Stirling admitting he’s in the wrong, well handled by Henderson and Southgate, the correct punishment accepted by Stirling who also apologised issue should now be dropped Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogkev Posted November 12, 2019 Report Share Posted November 12, 2019 Nothing to do with the incident, but I'm surprised Gomez is in the squad, hardly getting much game time at Liverpool, is he? Sterling has been a bit of a moron I reckon, not befitting a professional at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-mat Posted November 12, 2019 Report Share Posted November 12, 2019 1 hour ago, Up The City! said: They are humans, not robots. If I was a Man City fan I'd be absolutely delighted that one of our players was still wound up about losing the next day. Not being funny mate but playing for England doesn't have the significance it once did and what you like to think it does. Club football comes first these days. Southgate mishandled this whole situation. Not very patriotic a view point, Mr Brexit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Posted November 12, 2019 Report Share Posted November 12, 2019 Rumour has it Eddie Hearn is already preparing the contracts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowshed Posted November 12, 2019 Report Share Posted November 12, 2019 2 hours ago, RedRock said: That situation should have been managed and was likely entirely preventable. It was clear that there was an issue between the two players. First thing to do would have been to talk to them individually, then jointly and defuse things. No doubt the mega-wealthy FA have a number of ‘experts’ in player psychology in the back-up team. Where were they? Where was the Plan? One was Bill Beswick. He would almost certainly suggest something like that and point out players conflicts are normal. they can be turned around into positives, anger as an energy can be focussed and used to improve performance .. He may have also suggested it had gone too far and some time on the reflective naughty step could improve relations. Its questionable that making this public has any benefit. It should be kept internal. The Manager should have the players backs. A player grabs another by the neck .. If that is what happened. So what! Southgate will have seen far worse and may have done worse himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Posted November 12, 2019 Report Share Posted November 12, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trueredsupporter Posted November 12, 2019 Report Share Posted November 12, 2019 England best players has been dropped in favour of a player whose played one game for Liverpool because of a bit of needle. Good call Gareth!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northern Red Posted November 12, 2019 Report Share Posted November 12, 2019 10 minutes ago, Trueredsupporter said: England best players has been dropped in favour of a player whose played one game for Liverpool because of a bit of needle. Good call Gareth!!! Yeah, we should just let him behave how he wants... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midred Posted November 12, 2019 Report Share Posted November 12, 2019 4 hours ago, TomF said: Beat me to it. The Sun et all will be all over this like a rash. The Sun - and otib? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trueredsupporter Posted November 12, 2019 Report Share Posted November 12, 2019 Northern red didn't say that. he has hardly levelled another player. its a scratch. if England were not playing a County with a tiny population and needed to win the game would Sterling be be dropped? no way. Now its the news right up to the game. happens all the time players having a pop at each other. wonder what Keane, Dixon, Keown, Shearer would make of a scratching being made news like this. Ferdinand has come out and said Southgate is wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted November 12, 2019 Report Share Posted November 12, 2019 5 minutes ago, Trueredsupporter said: Northern red didn't say that. he has hardly levelled another player. its a scratch. if England were not playing a County with a tiny population and needed to win the game would Sterling be be dropped? no way. Now its the news right up to the game. happens all the time players having a pop at each other. wonder what Keane, Dixon, Keown, Shearer would make of a scratching being made news like this. Ferdinand has come out and said Southgate is wrong. That’s why those players never won any international tournament Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trueredsupporter Posted November 12, 2019 Report Share Posted November 12, 2019 those players were winner and won more than Southgate. you think other nations don't have internal problems?? Spain Barca and Real. the Catalans??? you manage it to keep the best on the pitch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cider-manc Posted November 12, 2019 Report Share Posted November 12, 2019 5 minutes ago, Trueredsupporter said: Northern red didn't say that. he has hardly levelled another player. its a scratch. if England were not playing a County with a tiny population and needed to win the game would Sterling be be dropped? no way. Now its the news right up to the game. happens all the time players having a pop at each other. wonder what Keane, Dixon, Keown, Shearer would make of a scratching being made news like this. Ferdinand has come out and said Southgate is wrong. Surely as it is a game we should expect to win it's the best time to set a precedent? Players less likely to step out of line in the future if they know the concequences and its unlikely to effect englands qualification. 1 minute ago, Trueredsupporter said: those players were winner and won more than Southgate. you think other nations don't have internal problems?? Spain Barca and Real. the Catalans??? you manage it to keep the best on the pitch. They have won the same amount at international level as Southgate. **** all. Is this the same Spain who admitted they failed to win anything for decades due to club alligences spliting them down the middle so they actively took steps to solving it? If club differences are starting to split the england camp it needs to be stopped asap. Something Southgate has taken steps towards. The fact it probably wont harm the team qualifying is a bonus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trueredsupporter Posted November 12, 2019 Report Share Posted November 12, 2019 yes cider man Spain still goes on and they manage it and keep the best on the pitch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CheddarReds Posted November 12, 2019 Report Share Posted November 12, 2019 24 minutes ago, Trueredsupporter said: those players were winner and won more than Southgate. you think other nations don't have internal problems?? Spain Barca and Real. the Catalans??? you manage it to keep the best on the pitch. https://www.theplayerstribune.com/en-us/articles/gerard-pique-a-long-story Pique details it quite well here. They hate each other when they're involved with rival clubs, but put it aside when playing for the national team because they (madrid players like Ramos) are "brothers on the Spanish national team". The point is that they don't need managing, as the players recognise it's their responsibility (not the managers) to ensure they leave club baggage with their clubs and fully commit "as brothers" for their national team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedM Posted November 12, 2019 Report Share Posted November 12, 2019 3 hours ago, Up The City! said: They are humans, not robots. And adults and professionals too. Sounds like it wasn’t adult or professional behaviour so it has been dealt with. I’d say that was fair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRISTOL86 Posted November 12, 2019 Report Share Posted November 12, 2019 56 minutes ago, Trueredsupporter said: Northern red didn't say that. he has hardly levelled another player. its a scratch. if England were not playing a County with a tiny population and needed to win the game would Sterling be be dropped? no way. Now its the news right up to the game. happens all the time players having a pop at each other. wonder what Keane, Dixon, Keown, Shearer would make of a scratching being made news like this. Ferdinand has come out and said Southgate is wrong. With all due respect you weren’t party to the incident and don’t know the full ins and outs of what’s gone on. The fact that Sterling has issued an immediate and public apology makes it pretty obvious who was in the wrong. Southgate’s done the right thing and sent the message that it doesn’t matter how big of a ‘name’ you are - you can’t go acting like a *** and getting away with it. Fair play to Southgate I say. He’s sent the message that it doesn’t matter if the other party is Harry Kane or the tea lady - you’re not acting like that in my squad and getting away with it. Gomez’ ‘worth’ to the England campaign shouldn’t and hasn’t come into it - see the thread on Derby County for how not to handle an incident involving players with different ‘worth’ to the club Sometimes these pampered princesses need their ego keeping in check. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cider-manc Posted November 12, 2019 Report Share Posted November 12, 2019 22 minutes ago, Trueredsupporter said: yes cider man Spain still goes on and they manage it and keep the best on the pitch. But whilst these problems existed they didn’t win anything despite keeping all their best players on the pitch. Once they got to the bottom of the problems they started winning stuff! Perhaps they were told from the get go that if they didnt sort it out then they didn’t play. Perhaps england also said this to players and if sterling hadnt of received a punishment It could cause Southgate to lose the respect of the dressing room and have the liverpool players and man city players taking sides spliting the squad. Dealing with it straight away ends it. It's a bit too public for my liking but it needed to be dealt with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowshed Posted November 12, 2019 Report Share Posted November 12, 2019 19 minutes ago, CheddarReds said: https://www.theplayerstribune.com/en-us/articles/gerard-pique-a-long-story Pique details it quite well here. They hate each other when they're involved with rival clubs, but put it aside when playing for the national team because they (madrid players like Ramos) are "brothers on the Spanish national team". The point is that they don't need managing, as the players recognise it's their responsibility (not the managers) to ensure they leave club baggage with their clubs and fully commit "as brothers" for their national team. Spain maintained a mantra of what happened between Puyol and Ramos was kept internal. The Manager must not criticise players in public. What happens on the pitch and in training stays there. Spain's players needed a lot of Managing as do any group of young men. The challenges are constant. The conflicts are constant. The politics are constant. Keeping that private is the norm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downendcity Posted November 12, 2019 Report Share Posted November 12, 2019 11 minutes ago, cider-manc said: But whilst these problems existed they didn’t win anything despite keeping all their best players on the pitch. Once they got to the bottom of the problems they started winning stuff! Perhaps they were told from the get go that if they didnt sort it out then they didn’t play. Perhaps england also said this to players and if sterling hadnt of received a punishment It could cause Southgate to lose the respect of the dressing room and have the liverpool players and man city players taking sides spliting the squad. Dealing with it straight away ends it. It's a bit too public for my liking but it needed to be dealt with. Difficult to drop Sterling and for it not to be public! Think Southgate set out his stall when he started the job. Having said he would pick players on form he was then prepared to drop Rooney and also the fact that he's been prepared to pick players from so called lesser clubs. This decision also looks like hime being prepared to do the right thing , even though it might be detrimental to the team - a rarity in the modern game. Crucially it sends a message to all the players that it doesn't matter who they are or what team they play for, if they step out of line the they know what to expect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowshed Posted November 12, 2019 Report Share Posted November 12, 2019 14 minutes ago, BRISTOL86 said: With all due respect you weren’t party to the incident and don’t know the full ins and outs of what’s gone on. Unless you are party to the incident how would you know Mr Southgate has done the right thing!. 14 minutes ago, BRISTOL86 said: Southgate’s done the right thing and sent the message that it doesn’t matter how big of a ‘name’ you are - you can’t go acting like a *** and getting away with it. What Mr Southgate has done is unusual. The norm to dealing with players emotions, the pressures is to keep it confidential. It is normally a non-negotiable to deal with players who disrupt team harmony in private. To not do so creates isolates .. Something to avoid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRISTOL86 Posted November 12, 2019 Report Share Posted November 12, 2019 15 minutes ago, Cowshed said: Unless you are party to the incident how would you know Mr Southgate has done the right thing!. What Mr Southgate has done is unusual. The norm to dealing with players emotions, the pressures is to keep it confidential. It is normally a non-negotiable to deal with players who disrupt team harmony in private. To not do so creates isolates .. Something to avoid. Well it’s more of the right thing than letting Sterling do whatever he wants because his form is good and he’s a ‘big name’ compared to Gomez.... As I said, Sterling’s reaction to it tells you all you need to know - he knows he’s ****** up. I have no issue with a manager acting decisively - by all accounts he wanted to be harsher than he was and send him home altogether, and it was only Henderson’s intervention that stopped it. Sometimes player’s need educating. Sweeping it under the rug and pretending it didn’t happen is just setting it up to happen again. If I physically confronted a colleague in my place of work I’d be dealt with a lot harsher than this. Hopefully he will learn from it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downendcity Posted November 12, 2019 Report Share Posted November 12, 2019 16 minutes ago, Cowshed said: Unless you are party to the incident how would you know Mr Southgate has done the right thing!. What Mr Southgate has done is unusual. The norm to dealing with players emotions, the pressures is to keep it confidential. It is normally a non-negotiable to deal with players who disrupt team harmony in private. To not do so creates isolates .. Something to avoid. How does he drop Sterling and keep it confidential, or are you saying that notwithstanding what Sterling did, he should have kept him in the team? It might be unusual, but it perhaps makes a refreshing change for top players to understand that it doesn't matter who they are or how important they are to the team, they cannot carry on as they want without repercussions. Also, depending on what happened, had Southgate not taken decisive action, other players might have felt that Sterling was getting preferential treatment and this could well have caused more disruption among the squad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CheddarReds Posted November 12, 2019 Report Share Posted November 12, 2019 18 minutes ago, Cowshed said: Unless you are party to the incident how would you know Mr Southgate has done the right thing!. What Mr Southgate has done is unusual. The norm to dealing with players emotions, the pressures is to keep it confidential. It is normally a non-negotiable to deal with players who disrupt team harmony in private. To not do so creates isolates .. Something to avoid. It sets a precedent for players coming into the national team - you put the national team first and leave club baggage at the door. If Southgate didn't make it public and left a fit Raheem Sterling out the squad on Thursday, there would be questions and likely the same people moaning about him now, would then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRISTOL86 Posted November 12, 2019 Report Share Posted November 12, 2019 9 minutes ago, downendcity said: How does he drop Sterling and keep it confidential, or are you saying that notwithstanding what Sterling did, he should have kept him in the team? It might be unusual, but it perhaps makes a refreshing change for top players to understand that it doesn't matter who they are or how important they are to the team, they cannot carry on as they want without repercussions. Also, depending on what happened, had Southgate not taken decisive action, other players might have felt that Sterling was getting preferential treatment and this could well have caused more disruption among the squad. Absolutely. Who cares for ‘usual’, it’s a refreshing change as you say to see someone not pussy foot around these egotistical ********* for once. The fact that Southgate consulted senior players before making any rash decisions speaks volumes about his measured management style. It won’t be a decision he’s taken lightly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowshed Posted November 12, 2019 Report Share Posted November 12, 2019 1 minute ago, BRISTOL86 said: Well it’s more of the right thing than letting Sterling do whatever he wants because his form is good and he’s a ‘big name’ compared to Gomez.... I do not understand your comment. I have not indicated a player should do what he wants. I simply pointed out what is usual. Team cohesion is threatened all the time and there Mr Southgate has opted for the unusual. 1 minute ago, BRISTOL86 said: As I said, Sterling’s reaction to it tells you all you need to know - he knows he’s ****** up. It tells me very little. If the player feels obligated to do it, and is merely complying it can affect his mindset e.g. resenting what he is doing. It is not beneficial. 5 minutes ago, BRISTOL86 said: I have no issue with a manager acting decisively - by all accounts he wanted to be harsher than he was and send him home altogether, and it was only Henderson’s intervention that stopped it. So players felt the Manager was being uneven. That was an issue of fairness for the players concerned. If true. 8 minutes ago, BRISTOL86 said: Sometimes player’s need educating. Sweeping it under the rug and pretending it didn’t happen is just setting it up to happen again. Nowhere have I indicated that a players behaviour is forgotten. What I did post about was how conflict is managed. Supportive environments support players internally, educate them internally. By highlighting a players behaviour, punishing a player publicly is not a consistent. It is actually an untypical behaviour to respond as Mr Southgate has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRISTOL86 Posted November 12, 2019 Report Share Posted November 12, 2019 7 minutes ago, Cowshed said: I do not understand your comment. I have not indicated a player should do what he wants. I simply pointed out what is usual. Team cohesion is threatened all the time and there Mr Southgate has opted for the unusual. It tells me very little. If the player feels obligated to do it, and is merely complying it can affect his mindset e.g. resenting what he is doing. It is not beneficial. So players felt the Manager was being uneven. That was an issue of fairness for the players concerned. If true. Nowhere have I indicated that a players behaviour is forgotten. What I did post about was how conflict is managed. Supportive environments support players internally, educate them internally. By highlighting a players behaviour, punishing a player publicly is not a consistent. It is actually an untypical behaviour to respond as Mr Southgate has. He clearly felt the need to send a stronger message than internalising it, for whatever reason. Personally I trust his judgement, I think he’s shown himself to be a good man manager. Sterling has the choice as to what he learns from the incident. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowshed Posted November 12, 2019 Report Share Posted November 12, 2019 14 minutes ago, downendcity said: How does he drop Sterling and keep it confidential, or are you saying that notwithstanding what Sterling did, he should have kept him in the team? It might be unusual, but it perhaps makes a refreshing change for top players to understand that it doesn't matter who they are or how important they are to the team, they cannot carry on as they want without repercussions. Also, depending on what happened, had Southgate not taken decisive action, other players might have felt that Sterling was getting preferential treatment and this could well have caused more disruption among the squad. The player is dropped in private, it is kept private, he has got a knock and the strong leader fields questions in public deflecting anything away from the player. This is the age old stable form of maintaining team cohesion and management of young men and their egos. The Manager is there to protect and fight for his players.They then trust in him. Yes what Mr Southgate has done is highly unusual. Its odd because using a might it could backfire as players will trust him less, because he did not fight for one of them by displaying he did not have a players back and went public - He broke a non-negotiable (we keep it is house). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonBristolian Posted November 12, 2019 Report Share Posted November 12, 2019 I suspect there was an element of pragmatism to it. I totally agree the preference would be to keep it informal but my impression is Southgate made it public because he knew it was going to leak out anyway. If that was the case, the FA dealing with it and drawing a line under it quickly and decisively is potentially a better option than letting it drag on and the press speculate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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