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Thoughts on this?


tommydla

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51 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

Harsh having Watkins in turd pile. 2 good performances in last 2. Helped massively in wins against Blackburn and Sheffield Utd last season.

I still do not really understand the stick he gets. He seems like a decent versatile championship player to me.

It’s become fashionable / funny to knock him it seems. I thought he did really well at Barnsley and Cardiff. Obviously he’s not a 20 goal a season striker but no one else in our team is either.

Rowe’s versatility has drawn him nothing but praise but Watkins has been the target for the boo boys since day one.

Funny old game. 

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My thoughts are that I’m surprised that I’m not 100% sure who some of our players are, without their name/numbers on show..! 
I’m sure I could work them all out if I paid a bit of attention to it, but at first glance I’m only guessing at a few of them...! 
#gettingold

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1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

I disagree.  The son of Austrian sprinters (his mum an international), they’ve definitely passed on their genes.

https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/aston-villa-hurdles-dont-worry-180441

I think he is quick with and without the ball.  He gets to top speed with the ball very quickly.

The rest of the post is all very subjective.  What’s the benchmark?

I think he has decent pace, but not so quick he really gets away from defenders. Add that to his lack of real physical strength and it is why he is more a striker partner, more than a proper number 9 main striker.

But if he is good enough to do that number 9 role, then I wish LJ would hurry up and play him there.

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1 hour ago, Bar BS3 said:

My thoughts are that I’m surprised that I’m not 100% sure who some of our players are, without their name/numbers on show..! 
I’m sure I could work them all out if I paid a bit of attention to it, but at first glance I’m only guessing at a few of them...! 
#gettingold

Phew..... I thought I might be the only one.

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1 hour ago, BRISTOL86 said:

It’s become fashionable / funny to knock him it seems. I thought he did really well at Barnsley and Cardiff. Obviously he’s not a 20 goal a season striker but no one else in our team is either.

Rowe’s versatility has drawn him nothing but praise but Watkins has been the target for the boo boys since day one.

Funny old game. 

Interesting comparison you make with Rowe. I believe Rowe and Watkins are ideal squad players. Both hard working, experienced, and both very versatile.

I've been impressed with Watkins so far this season, and i would probably look to keep him here next season if these performances continue. Not looking to have him in the first choice 11, but knowing he'd come in and do a reliable job in various positions if needed.

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49 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

I think he has decent pace, but not so quick he really gets away from defenders. Add that to his lack of real physical strength and it is why he is more a striker partner, more than a proper number 9 main striker.

But if he is good enough to do that number 9 role, then I wish LJ would hurry up and play him there.

I think part of the problem is too many of us are focussed on the stereotype no9...and historically what the components of that role was....and then looking for all the things that make one of our players fit that or not fit that as the case may be.  Weimann is not that player, but he has attributes that imho mean he can play various roles along the forward line.  That role might depend on whether he has a partner or on his own and / or who’s gonna supply him.

In an extreme scenario Samuel E’too (or however you spell it) sometimes played as far removed from the no9 we traditionally see, yet who was there to tap the ball in from 6 yards out?

The art is to either find a system / roles that fit the players, or find the players to fit the role / system you want.  It’s a no right / no wrong thing....it’s why we have thousands of posts between us ?

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2 minutes ago, BRISTOL86 said:

90-A16-F8-A-A4-A4-4-D18-9096-608-BE90-DE

Watched cod when he came on for Ireland tonight, so frustrating to watch, took no responsibility, whenever he got the ball he couldn't wait to get rid of it back to his left back who would promptly lump it out of play and I'm a fan of his!!! The annoying thing to me is that he has the skill and talent to beat his man but rarely takes that responsibility 

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3 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I think part of the problem is too many of us are focussed on the stereotype no9...and historically what the components of that role was....and then looking for all the things that make one of our players fit that or not fit that as the case may be.  Weimann is not that player, but he has attributes that imho mean he can play various roles along the forward line.  That role might depend on whether he has a partner or on his own and / or who’s gonna supply him.

In an extreme scenario Samuel E’too (or however you spell it) sometimes played as far removed from the no9 we traditionally see, yet who was there to tap the ball in from 6 yards out?

The art is to either find a system / roles that fit the players, or find the players to fit the role / system you want.  It’s a no right / no wrong thing....it’s why we have thousands of posts between us ?

I was impressed with Weimann and Palmer behind/partnering him against Cardiff.

It makes me a bit more optimistic about that sort of thing working. But it seems LJ really does not like the idea of Weimann being that main striker.

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Just now, JonDolman said:

I was impressed with Weimann and Palmer behind/partnering him against Cardiff.

It makes me a bit more optimistic about that sort of thing working. But it seems LJ really does not like the idea of Weimann being that main striker.

I guess we’ll see in future weeks whether Watkins was a “horses for courses” selection for two away games, one opponent who was especially physical (Cardiff), whether Diedhiou comes in, or whether we see something like Palmer and O’Dowda supplying one “forward” - whoever that might be.

I really would like us to retain the back 5 and find consistency there, whether again that be Baker for more aerial dominated games and Moore where we can play a bit more.  That 5 man base has been pretty successful this season, and as I posted in another thread, it’s barely had a chance to gel....so I hope without injuries we can become even stronger.

The Cardiff result was a real boost.  Shame we have to wait so long for the next game.

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6 hours ago, Davefevs said:

I guess we’ll see in future weeks whether Watkins was a “horses for courses” selection for two away games, one opponent who was especially physical (Cardiff), whether Diedhiou comes in, or whether we see something like Palmer and O’Dowda supplying one “forward” - whoever that might be.

I really would like us to retain the back 5 and find consistency there, whether again that be Baker for more aerial dominated games and Moore where we can play a bit more.  That 5 man base has been pretty successful this season, and as I posted in another thread, it’s barely had a chance to gel....so I hope without injuries we can become even stronger.

The Cardiff result was a real boost.  Shame we have to wait so long for the next game.

I think Marley and Weimann looked dangerous. Maybe could have done with Palmer's flair in behind them. O'Dowda has been very good though but offers completely different things to Palmer.

Like I said on another thread, I'd keep Marley around, even next season. He's a reliable, versatile back up player with high work rate and experience. That 1.5 million could still be a good deal for us.

I fancy him to do a decent job up top, either wings when we go with wingers or even at right wing back - he was very impressive there against a senior Leeds side a month or so back, and even looked more suited to that position than wing.

It seems like LJ will be sticking with the 3 at the back system. For me we need better wide ball playing centre backs. Ideally I'd want Kalas in the middle, but Williams playing so well, I accept Kalas right is the only option for him at the moment.

But left side I would really like to see Moore playing. And if Moore is not available then I wonder how Rowe would do left of a 3. Looked very good there second half of one game, when O'Dowda moved to left wing back.

I think Rowe is more comfortable in more central areas. He is very strong, surprisingly good in the air, and i imagine he may bring it out well, certainly better than Baker can. Maybe it won't work, but that one time we saw him there he looked comfortable.

 

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10 hours ago, Davefevs said:

the stereotype no9...and historically what the components of that role was.

Unless something has changed (that I've missed) that was to score goals.

Couldn't give a damn as to defensive ability, overall contribution, workrate or flappy-handed, cross-field runs. If the No9 gets his name on the scoresheet 30+ times a season by finding space in the box and knowing how to hit the onion bag, they've done their job.

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6 minutes ago, BTRFTG said:

Unless something has changed (that I've missed) that was to score goals.

Couldn't give a damn as to defensive ability, overall contribution, workrate or flappy-handed, cross-field runs. If the No9 gets his name on the scoresheet 30+ times a season by finding space in the box and knowing how to hit the onion bag, they've done their job.

Only 30?! You're a hard taskmaster!

One of the most striking things about Fam's absence was our consequent frailty defending set pieces. It took us two games to work that out, during which we conceded three goals from corners and, arguably, lost four points we'd have otherwise picked up. And when we did realise it needed a change of personnel atbthe back to manage.

So, whilst clearly no argument about the main role being to score goals, Imthink defensive ability, for example, is a factor too.

Conversly, Flints limitations as a defender with us we're partly offset by his ability to score goals. 

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22 minutes ago, BTRFTG said:

Unless something has changed (that I've missed) that was to score goals.

Couldn't give a damn as to defensive ability, overall contribution, workrate or flappy-handed, cross-field runs. If the No9 gets his name on the scoresheet 30+ times a season by finding space in the box and knowing how to hit the onion bag, they've done their job.

So 99.99% of “No9s” fail then? Very few hit 30.

who was the last City no9 to do his job then?  Bob Taylor?

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19 minutes ago, italian dave said:

Only 30?! You're a hard taskmaster!

One of the most striking things about Fam's absence was our consequent frailty defending set pieces. It took us two games to work that out, during which we conceded three goals from corners and, arguably, lost four points we'd have otherwise picked up. And when we did realise it needed a change of personnel atbthe back to manage.

So, whilst clearly no argument about the main role being to score goals, Imthink defensive ability, for example, is a factor too.

Conversly, Flints limitations as a defender with us we're partly offset by his ability to score goals. 

The word 'historical' was mentioned and when I started watching football attackers attacked, defenders defended. 30+ goals was the benchmark, not the devalued 20, 15 or double figures that now get everyone so excited.

In those days there also wasn't the practice of putting the world and his wife into the box at every dead ball situation. Leave two or more up (as we never do) and opponents matched with as many plus 1. Defenders man marked (now coming back into fashion) and that highlighted defenders needed to be good enough man on man, if not they were quickly found out. If you can't defend with 6 plus the keeper adding more diminutive lightweights into the mix isn't going to improve defensive capability, arguably it makes things worse. Modern tactics hide (as England regularly find out to their cost) that many superstar defenders aren't that good when caught one on one.

Dropping strikers back highlights another change in the modern game, namely how c**p keepers are at commanding and owning their box. The fewer players back the more space for keepers to come and claim (rare as rocking horse these days.) Double fist flappy punches my ****, catch the thing! The goals you reference weren't rocket science, crowd any of our keepers at corners and they flap alarmingly. Amazed more teams don't exploit our weakness.

Flint ended up a significant goal threat as, like today, we'd no strikers at the club. No surprise his prowess upfront hasn't followed him. Recall we spent best part of 3 seasons pinging EVERY corner and free kick to him - and we assumed the opposition wouldn't cotton on?

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Bentley, Dasilva, Kalas, Nagy and Weimann would be my first names down on the teamsheet so guess you would call them ‘Elite’. Altho Afobe might have been in that group too. Closely followed by Brownhill and Williams. Fammy would also be on teamsheet shortly after but only because of the limited options up front - he certainly isn’t an elite player.

You then have a number of players like Palmer, Elliasson, COD who are decent bit never assured of first team spot due to their inconsistency. 

We have a lot of other solid players then like Moore, Baker, Hunt, Rowe and Perreria who can fill a number of roles - usually consistent but not standout. 

On Massengo - he will probably be the best of lot but still learning etc. Will have to see how Korey comes back but he can be class. 

Players I’d look to get rid of/replace are Watkins, Wright, Adelakun, Semenyo (loan) and Sammie Smudger (loan). 

Bit early to say on Rodri I think but suspect he won’t make the cut.

I think what above says to me is we miss a decent striker to help Fammy and Weimann out plus could really do with Dasilva back. Nagy is also key as without him we don’t retain possession. 

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