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REDOXO

Josh Brownhill signs for Burnley; CONFIRMED

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13 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

That’s a good point.

I for one hope that if Burnley pay £7m and no more because of a publicly known release clause that we slate them in public, come to a “gentleman’s agreement” not to trade with them again and abuse Josh to the extent he has to move house, taunting him as “snake” for wanting to better himself.

Its the only appropriate action.

I'm going to preempt this frankly devious behaviour BEFORE anything is done and any players are traded.

I'm going to Sainsbury's on my way home from work where I'll pick something up, and then put it back again - but to show everyone that I mean business - I'll not leave the label on the product obvious to those standing in front of it.

That'll show 'em. I'll be just like one of those braver Fewers.

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2 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

Vaulks is very good in the air, but he is probably worse than Morrell if Morrell is ahead of him in Wales side.

We can have tall players in other positions that can defend corners, it doesn't have to be a midfielder.

I'd be disappointed if LJ is bringing in midfielders to defend corners. That is a bonus, but shouldn't be a deciding factor in picking someone in the side.

Aye I know, but the make-up of our squad, you struggle once you get past the CB's and Fam to have a 4th marker. If Pereira/Watkins plays then you do, if not then you're struggling

Also, not suggesting Vaulks comes in purely to defend corners haha, he's the same height as Brownhill, he just has an eye for goal and can be creative as well as his time at Rotherham in this division proved.

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1 minute ago, Carey 6 said:

Aye I know, but the make-up of our squad, you struggle once you get past the CB's and Fam to have a 4th marker. If Pereira/Watkins plays then you do, if not then you're struggling

Also, not suggesting Vaulks comes in purely to defend corners haha, he's the same height as Brownhill, he just has an eye for goal and can be creative as well as his time at Rotherham in this division proved.

I was never that impressed with him in midfield to be honest. But was very impressed with him at centre back. He says he likes playing there, but not right back so much as he lacks pace. 

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15 minutes ago, ITK..... said:

Would you pay £7 million for Josh brownhill on this season's form? 

Yes. There been some downturn in form recent, in common with most of the squad, but if you want a young box to box midfielder to play in the Premier league, not to go in the development squad, and who has shown captaincy potential then around £7M is going to be the going rate. 

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29 minutes ago, Riaz said:

Indeed. The issue for me, is would he want to come here.

Thing is with QPR, they dont have a player burnley wants.... or about 12m to spend....we do.

We may be his only option

Are you saying we have £12m to spend?  Interested in how you reached this figure.  Ignore me if that’s not what you meant.

21 minutes ago, Carey 6 said:

Morrell isn't really like for like with Brownhill anyway, would need to be Walsh if one was to be recalled.

Johnson came out recently and said in certain formations you end up having Brownhill picking up someone who's 6ft + on corners, if he was to go & it was Walsh we'd struggle even more in these situations. 

Vaulks makes sense to me as a replacement. 

Just found out Joe Morrell is 6'1. - Is that Frank Fielding measurements they're using there? I always thought of him being about 5'6/7.

Walsh has already had agreement with Coventry that he’s staying for rest of season.  Recall agreed not be activated. 

15 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

Vaulks is very good in the air, but he is probably worse than Morrell if Morrell is ahead of him in Wales side.

We can have tall players in other positions that can defend corners, it doesn't have to be a midfielder.

I'd be disappointed if LJ is bringing in midfielders to defend corners. That is a bonus, but shouldn't be a deciding factor in picking someone in the side.

With that logic Morrell who I like is better than Ramsey or Ampadu? 😜

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Just now, Davefevs said:

Are you saying we have £12m to spend?  Interested in how you reached this figure.  Ignore me if that’s not what you meant.

Walsh has already had agreement with Coventry that he’s staying for rest of season.  Recall agreed not be activated. 

With that logic Morrell who I like is better than Ramsey or Ampadu? 😜

I'm not sure Ampadu is even that good is he? Played centre back I think more for Chelsea in European games they were expected to win comfortably.

Ramsey is not really a player that plays in a 2, he is much more effective with freedom to roam. And I think had just come back from injury. 

Vaulks and Morrell are the exact same position I think. 

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8 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Are you saying we have £12m to spend?  Interested in how you reached this figure.  Ignore me if that’s not what you meant.

We have the means to get Wells is basically what i'm saying. The fact we have a player they want.

Pretty sure QPR are skint.

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Id take Vaulks and Wells and losing Brownhill for whatever Ashton can get.

Recall Morrell. We'd then be a stronger squad with those deals done. 

Afobe returning too. Could be looking very good if he can come back strong. I know that's asking a lot after a long lay off but sometimes players do come back sharp even after long lay off.

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21 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Are you saying we have £12m to spend?  Interested in how you reached this figure.  Ignore me if that’s not what you meant.

Walsh has already had agreement with Coventry that he’s staying for rest of season.  Recall agreed not be activated. 

With that logic Morrell who I like is better than Ramsey or Ampadu? 😜

Would like to see us recall Joe & give him a run..

trade Josh for Wells & job's a good un!

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22 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

I'm not sure Ampadu is even that good is he? Played centre back I think more for Chelsea in European games they were expected to win comfortably.

Ramsey is not really a player that plays in a 2, he is much more effective with freedom to roam. And I think had just come back from injury. 

Vaulks and Morrell are the exact same position I think. 

Both can play a variety of CM roles, but play them differently. Interestingly, Joe now playing a bit more advanced at Lincoln, now they’ve got Coventry as their DM/holder. 

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I think the hundreds of finacial views just show we'd all like to see MA's spreadsheet. None of us can so its all theretical of course and I would like to see our best players stay until our future (equal chance of mid-table or top 6) becomes clearer then start to build a team for next season

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6 minutes ago, Hampshire Red said:

I think the hundreds of finacial views just show we'd all like to see MA's spreadsheet. None of us can so its all theretical of course and I would like to see our best players stay until our future (equal chance of mid-table or top 6) becomes clearer then start to build a team for next season

Wages is very difficult to judge, cause it might include or exclude bonuses etc.

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3 hours ago, Carey 6 said:

Just found out Joe Morrell is 6'1. - Is that Frank Fielding measurements they're using there? I always thought of him being about 5'6/7.

Yes, he’s 6’1”..........when standing on Johnson’s viewing crate

 

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1 hour ago, RedRaw said:

Yes, he’s 6’1”..........when standing on Johnson’s viewing crate

 

5’7’’ according to his dad

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Been thinking about this clause and I see two scenarios.

First, Josh seems to have one of the more twitchy agents. Every window he’s been linked with a move, so the likelihood is that his agent wanted a cut so argued for the clause.

Second, it may show that our target for promotion is this season. Sticking a clause that says you can go for £7m to the Prem in summer 20, could show that we wanted to be in the Prem by summer 20. Cashing in on it now May show we’re a bit further off our target than we want to be. At 2nd/3rd in the table we may put up more of a fight to keep him.

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‘Gossip column’ on the BBC now linking Leicester, Burnley & Sheffield Utd as having an interest in Brownhill because of his £7m release clause.

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To me it makes sense. We protect our investment until the summer. It looks like he wants to play at a higher level and won't sign a new deal. You wouldn't begrudge him that. 

Or if you want him in Jan that price is inflated.

He is club captain and will play a vital part in what could be a very exciting few months. Fingers crossed.

Someone slated Mark Ashton on this thread. I will temper that slightly.  It seems to me that everyone in this club saw his potential. Without doubt the last contract Josh will sign for this club. We are protected on a guaranteed return, rather than nothing at the end of his one year extension, which the club would trigger and the player would have to accept. 

The question is, when JB signed his last contract was a release clause of 7m a good number. I would say perhaps when he signed it looked good for the club. However I think it's a testament to how far Josh has progressed. I would without doubt say now that 7m for a player like Josh in his last year of contact is undervalued.  You spin the wheel you takes your chance in pinning a value on a player a few years out. 

I don't think the club have got this one horribly wrong. We will wait and see what Mark Ashton comes up with. 

Edited by WayOutWest
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6 hours ago, Tipps69 said:

‘Gossip column’ on the BBC now linking Leicester, Burnley & Sheffield Utd as having an interest in Brownhill because of his £7m release clause.

Add Crystal Palace to the list :rolleyes:

 

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4 hours ago, WayOutWest said:

 

To me it makes sense. We protect our investment until the summer. It looks like he wants to play at a higher level and won't sign a new deal. You wouldn't begrudge him that. 

Or if you want him in Jan that price is inflated.

He is club captain and will play a vital part in what could be a very exciting few months. Fingers crossed.

Someone slated Mark Ashton on this thread. I will temper that slightly.  It seems to me that everyone in this club saw his potential. Without doubt the last contract Josh will sign for this club. We are protected on a guaranteed return, rather than nothing at the end of his one year extension, which the club would trigger and the player would have to accept. 

The question is, when JB signed his last contract was a release clause of 7m a good number. I would say perhaps when he signed it looked good for the club. However I think it's a testament to how far Josh has progressed. I would without doubt say now that 7m for a player like Josh in his last year of contact is undervalued.  You spin the wheel you takes your chance in pinning a value on a player a few years out. 

I don't think the club have got this one horribly wrong. We will wait and see what Mark Ashton comes up with. 

He signed a new contract last year when Cod wouldnt , correct? 7 million seems a bit low but then again anything didnt we sign him on the cheap? 

Im all for letting him go if we get quality replacements in  for him and Afobe. We have to assume Afobe is out for rest of the season as march is a long way away and not fair to put that burden on one player although fam is having a great season we just need more goals.

LJ has never really changed his style...outscore the opposition which if we didnt have the cup run few years ago we may of gone up ? Who knows...

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37 minutes ago, miketh2nd said:

He signed a new contract last year when Cod wouldnt , correct? 7 million seems a bit low but then again anything didnt we sign him on the cheap? 

Im all for letting him go if we get quality replacements in  for him and Afobe. We have to assume Afobe is out for rest of the season as march is a long way away and not fair to put that burden on one player although fam is having a great season we just need more goals.

LJ has never really changed his style...outscore the opposition which if we didnt have the cup run few years ago we may of gone up ? Who knows...

As I understand it (and stand to be corrected);

We signed him when his contract ran down but paid a fee due to his club offering him a renewed deal.

I think his last contract ran from 2017 till 2021.

Its been reported that there is a clause to enable him to leave this summer if a club offers 7m.

So its feasible that something over 7m could be attained if he leaves in this window.

There is so much noise in the media regarding Brownhill that it seems inevitable imo that he will go in this window - so I'd expect it to be slightly north of 7m.

Maybe 8m ?

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4 minutes ago, bcfc01 said:

As I understand it (and stand to be corrected);

We signed him when his contract ran down but paid a fee due to his club offering him a renewed deal.

I think his last contract ran from 2017 till 2021.

Its been reported that there is a clause to enable him to leave this summer if a club offers 7m.

So its feasible that something over 7m could be attained if he leaves in this window.

There is so much noise in the media regarding Brownhill that it seems inevitable imo that he will go in this window - so I'd expect it to be slightly north of 7m.

Maybe 8m ?

Yeah somewhere in the region of £7.1m - £100m.

You heard it here first.

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18 hours ago, JonDolman said:

I'm not sure Ampadu is even that good is he? Played centre back I think more for Chelsea in European games they were expected to win comfortably.

Ramsey is not really a player that plays in a 2, he is much more effective with freedom to roam. And I think had just come back from injury. 

Vaulks and Morrell are the exact same position I think. 

England tried very hard to get him to commit to them which says a lot. England really do their homework on teenage stars these days. Think Ampadu is seen primarily as a CB though.

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3 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

England tried very hard to get him to commit to them which says a lot. England really do their homework on teenage stars these days. Think Ampadu is seen primarily as a CB though.

Yep. But where he is currently in his development he is probably worse than Morrell as a midfielder. Unless Giggs is picking the wrong player of course.

Being a few years younger he probably has more potential than Morrell.

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For me he hasn't really stepped up since Pack left. Decent player but honestly wouldn't be that bothered if he left.

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16 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

Yep. But where he is currently in his development he is probably worse than Morrell as a midfielder. Unless Giggs is picking the wrong player of course.

Being a few years younger he probably has more potential than Morrell.

I don't really know either way because I haven't watched enough of Ampadu to say. You could be right but unless you've watched both play enough times then it's hard to judge.

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Some say Morrell could become a better player than Josh. Perhaps we have a ready replacement. 

Was the 7m clause inserted as an advisory by the agent to ensure Josh has an outlet to leave instead of city holding out for a much higher fee? Its a strange one for City to accept but perhaps they had no choice. Well, they always have a choice.

Edited by havanatopia
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I find it strange that there has been so much interest in him this season. He’s put in some good performances but also plenty of average ones and some down right poor - eg against Barnsley. There haven’t been many matches where he’s been the dominant best midfielder on the pitch. I suppose clubs are considering his age and assume he can develop in a team of better Premier League players. I won’t be distraught if we get £7m 

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43 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

I don't really know either way because I haven't watched enough of Ampadu to say. You could be right but unless you've watched both play enough times then it's hard to judge.

From what I have seen of Ampadu I didn't think he was that good at the moment. But anyway my main point is Morrell seems to be better than Vaulks, or at least Giggs prefers him. 

So if we signed Vaulks to play in midfield then that would disappoint me when we have Morrell out on loan. We also have Walsh who Coventry fans say plays amazing every week it seems. 

It's league one, but they are both still improving and seem too good for that level.

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2 hours ago, miketh2nd said:

He signed a new contract last year when Cod wouldnt , correct? 7 million seems a bit low but then again anything didnt we sign him on the cheap? 

Im all for letting him go if we get quality replacements in  for him and Afobe. We have to assume Afobe is out for rest of the season as march is a long way away and not fair to put that burden on one player although fam is having a great season we just need more goals.

LJ has never really changed his style...outscore the opposition which if we didnt have the cup run few years ago we may of gone up ? Who knows...

Perhaps Josh (under advice from Agent) wouldn’t extend his contract unless a fee of this amount was inserted, giving him a get-out if we didn’t want him to go?

2 hours ago, bcfc01 said:

As I understand it (and stand to be corrected);

We signed him when his contract ran down but paid a fee due to his club offering him a renewed deal.

I think his last contract ran from 2017 till 2021.

Its been reported that there is a clause to enable him to leave this summer if a club offers 7m.

So its feasible that something over 7m could be attained if he leaves in this window.

There is so much noise in the media regarding Brownhill that it seems inevitable imo that he will go in this window - so I'd expect it to be slightly north of 7m.

Maybe 8m ?

Or less than £7m if his head has been turned 😱

could be less if we also want add-ons, eg. £6m plus £x for appearances plus 20% sell on.

Not straightforward imho. 

1 hour ago, Phileas Fogg said:

I don't really know either way because I haven't watched enough of Ampadu to say. You could be right but unless you've watched both play enough times then it's hard to judge.

Once Giggs saw how well Joe could play, one of the big factors in selecting him rather than Ampadu was Joe’s ability to play 90 minutes of both games. Giggs needed that so he would 1) not waste a sub on Ampadu 2) play Ramsey when he wanted. Ampadu was not getting minutes for RBL and couldn’t do 2x90 which was what Giggs theoretically needed for his two match game plan.

So not a selection based on ability of either, but specific two match game plan, with massive consideration of Ramsey and Bale’s ability to get through enough minutes.

And that’s a FACT 😀😀😀

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10 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Perhaps Josh (under advice from Agent) wouldn’t extend his contract unless a fee of this amount was inserted, giving him a get-out if we didn’t want him to go?

Or less than £7m if his head has been turned 😱

could be less if we also want add-ons, eg. £6m plus £x for appearances plus 20% sell on.

Not straightforward imho. 

Once Giggs saw how well Joe could play, one of the big factors in selecting him rather than Ampadu was Joe’s ability to play 90 minutes of both games. Giggs needed that so he would 1) not waste a sub on Ampadu 2) play Ramsey when he wanted. Ampadu was not getting minutes for RBL and couldn’t do 2x90 which was what Giggs theoretically needed for his two match game plan.

So not a selection based on ability of either, but specific two match game plan, with massive consideration of Ramsey and Bale’s ability to get through enough minutes.

And that’s a FACT 😀😀😀

A rare and precious thing :) 

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22 minutes ago, Jerseybean said:

These guys used to be good but last few years unless the agents gossip alot of transfers are from nowhere  that or sources inside the club or forums 

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4 hours ago, bcfc01 said:

Add Crystal Palace to the list :rolleyes:

 

So are there any out of favour strikers at any of these clubs who could do a good job for us?

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4 hours ago, miketh2nd said:

He signed a new contract last year when Cod wouldnt , correct? 7 million seems a bit low but then again anything didnt we sign him on the cheap? 

 

You are if course correct. Interesting, Adam Reach signed for Sheff Wed for around 7m that season. Maybe that's the bench mark figure that made 7m a little over inflated for Josh at that time. 

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22 hours ago, Bristol Rob said:

I'm going to Sainsbury's on my way home from work ... I'll be just like one of those braver Fewers

Fewers don't go to Sainsburys (other than to fill a shopping trolley with food then leave it on the shop floor) cos they're hard, right? Nor do they go to work. Keep up, Rob. ;)

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1 hour ago, Jerseybean said:

Like the Sheffield United maestro, Brownhill looks a Premier League player in-waiting after a series of eye-catching performances in the Championship. A dynamic, technically gifted midfielder with five goals to his name this season, the Robins’ inspirational skipper is not short of suitors.

Have they actually watched him play!? They may as well have described him as 7 foot tall and blonde, as well. 

Edited by CyderInACan
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3 hours ago, pongo88 said:

I find it strange that there has been so much interest in him this season. He’s put in some good performances but also plenty of average ones and some down right poor - eg against Barnsley. There haven’t been many matches where he’s been the dominant best midfielder on the pitch. I suppose clubs are considering his age and assume he can develop in a team of better Premier League players. I won’t be distraught if we get £7m 

Those , quite frankly , fabulous goals show the skill  of the lad and won’t have gone unnoticed.

He has been groomed for bigger things since day one here. We have not seen the best of him I am certain and other clubs will agree with me that there is growth potential in his signing.

 

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8 minutes ago, Major Isewater said:

Those , quite frankly , fabulous goals show the skill  of the lad and won’t have gone unnoticed.

He has been groomed for bigger things since day one here. We have not seen the best of him I am certain and other clubs will agree with me that there is growth potential in his signing.

 

Yeah the goal vs Cardiff will have caught the eye, and his touch, energy and work rate will have been noted by scouts too. Add to that, model professional, loads of games under his belt even at a young age, and even captaincy on his CV.

Ticks lots of boxes.

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1 hour ago, CyderInACan said:

Like the Sheffield United maestro, Brownhill looks a Premier League player in-waiting after a series of eye-catching performances in the Championship. A dynamic, technically gifted midfielder with five goals to his name this season, the Robins’ inspirational skipper is not short of suitors.

Have they actually watched him play!? They may as well have described him as 7 foot tall and blonde, as well. 

JB is clearly a very good player in the making, but he ain't no inspirational leader and that's for sure.

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23 minutes ago, AppyDAZE said:

JB is clearly a very good player in the making, but he ain't no inspirational leader and that's for sure.

Agreed. I think he could become a very good player at a higher level possibly but I do not see him as a leader of men. 

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36 minutes ago, AppyDAZE said:

JB is clearly a very good player in the making, but he ain't no inspirational leader and that's for sure.

Not many are at 23 years old to be fair, in fact there are plenty of captains out there with a lot more experience under their belt than JB that are far from inspirational at Premier League level.

 

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I think we'll miss Brownhill if he does go. He's versatile, good engine and he's started to add goals to his game, 5 already this season. Look at the amount of points he's won for us already, and his goals against Cardiff and Charlton (I think) were absolutely amazing, premier league quality and goals I think nobody else could score in our team. Not sure where people are coming from when they say we won't miss him and he's not that good. 

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6 minutes ago, Packman said:

I think we'll miss Brownhill if he does go. He's versatile, good engine and he's started to add goals to his game, 5 already this season. Look at the amount of points he's won for us already, and his goals against Cardiff and Charlton (I think) were absolutely amazing, premier league quality and goals I think nobody else could score in our team. Not sure where people are coming from when they say we won't miss him and he's not that good. 

I think recently has been the first time I can remember him having a bad spell in the side. If he had a rare bad game in previous seasons, then he'd usually soon bounce back from that. Don't know if his head is all over the place like we so often hear about players when linked with a possible transfer in the near future. Never really understood players not performing when that happens to be honest, but it seems to happen quite often.

Other than the last month or so I agree with you. Think he has been outstanding. Top quality midfielder at this level and very versatile and never seems to get injured. A great pro, plenty of experience, works his socks off and still very young so may improve further.

I think we can cope without him if we improve in other areas like up front. I'd bring in another defender too. And then bring back Morrell to give us something different.

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1 hour ago, JonDolman said:

I think recently has been the first time I can remember him having a bad spell in the side. If he had a rare bad game in previous seasons, then he'd usually soon bounce back from that.

yes, agree.  Has been below par in several games from MIllwall onwards.

Don't know if his head is all over the place like we so often hear about players when linked with a possible transfer in the near future. Never really understood players not performing when that happens to be honest, but it seems to happen quite often.

Yeah, one us mere mortals can’t get our head around.  Who knows whether it’s true.

Other than the last month or so I agree with you. Think he has been outstanding.

Thought he had a quieter spell earlier this season, when playing more cautiously to help HNM bed-in, but wouldn’t have said he was poor, just less dynamic.  Then came back strong at Huddersfield and Fulham when freed up.

Top quality midfielder at this level and very versatile and never seems to get injured. A great pro, plenty of experience, works his socks off and still very young so may improve further.

Wouldn’t call him top quality, but good at most things without having any real spectacular element.  Perhaps best when driving on to give and go’s.  Got good habits, and Prem clubs will like that.

I think we can cope without him if we improve in other areas like up front. I'd bring in another defender too. And then bring back Morrell to give us something different.

definitely sensible thinking.

 

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4 hours ago, CyderInACan said:

Like the Sheffield United maestro, Brownhill looks a Premier League player in-waiting after a series of eye-catching performances in the Championship. A dynamic, technically gifted midfielder with five goals to his name this season, the Robins’ inspirational skipper is not short of suitors.

Have they actually watched him play!? They may as well have described him as 7 foot tall and blonde, as well. 

Most of our players are Premier League players in waiting. Trouble is, we've been waiting ****-in ages

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14 hours ago, WayOutWest said:

Or if you want him in Jan that price is inflated.

Why would it be inflated? Surely 7 million is worth more now than it will in the summer as we wouldnt have to pay 6 months extra of wages. 

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41 minutes ago, Up The City! said:

Why would it be inflated? Surely 7 million is worth more now than it will in the summer as we wouldnt have to pay 6 months extra of wages. 

The price is more now, because we don’t have to sell him... yet.

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7 minutes ago, Riaz said:

The price is more now, because we don’t have to sell him... yet.

But it also seems that we don’t have opportunities for add-ons in the summer.

Gonna be a weird one to estimate the fee.

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17 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

But it also seems that we don’t have opportunities for add-ons in the summer.

Gonna be a weird one to estimate the fee.

True. But the minimum we’ll get in the summer is 7m

A buying club will have to make it worthwhile for us to not keep him til the summer 

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5 minutes ago, Riaz said:

True. But the minimum we’ll get in the summer is 7m

A buying club will have to make it worthwhile for us to not keep him til the summer 

£6m + £6m of add-ons (appearances, avoid relegation) + 20% sell-on, as an example, is better (imho) that £7m flat in the summer.  As I say, though, no idea what’s gonna happen, just presenting an option of a lower fee.

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