Northern Red Posted November 17, 2019 Report Share Posted November 17, 2019 1 hour ago, Super said: Thought Kosovo in large spells were the better team. Wouldn't go that far but they're no mugs. Their playoff route is North Macedonia then either Georgia or Belarus so you'd fancy them to come through it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Posted November 17, 2019 Report Share Posted November 17, 2019 1 hour ago, Alex_BCFC said: They rarely threatened - apart from that headed chance. No real danger and England stepped it up and won comfortably. A decent win away at a side with a very good recent home record. They didnt have much in final third but our paasing was woeful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grifty Posted November 17, 2019 Report Share Posted November 17, 2019 3 hours ago, JonDolman said: Mings barely prem quality. Bournemouth didn't want him. Even Villa's manager wanted Webster before him. Southgate rates him as being good enough to lead us to winners of the euros though. Worrying. What? He does not think Mings will lead us to the Euros! Why are you making that up to put Southgate down? Kane and Sterling will be the ones he looks to lead us. People like Mings, Rice, etc (the ones people are slating) are being given game time in an England shirt in a competitive game for experience. Would you prefer we play the 1st team and the 1st team only in every game? What happens when we get an injury or suspension? The fringe players come in never having played a serious game, get over-awed and make mistakes. It honestly baffles me at how narrow-minded people can view things just to be negative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 17, 2019 Report Share Posted November 17, 2019 13 minutes ago, grifty said: What? He does not think Mings will lead us to the Euros! Why are you making that up to put Southgate down? Kane and Sterling will be the ones he looks to lead us. People like Mings, Rice, etc (the ones people are slating) are being given game time in an England shirt in a competitive game for experience. Would you prefer we play the 1st team and the 1st team only in every game? What happens when we get an injury or suspension? The fringe players come in never having played a serious game, get over-awed and make mistakes. It honestly baffles me at how narrow-minded people can view things just to be negative. So if he isn't playing in our team to help lead us to euro glory then why on Earth is Southgate playing him! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bard Posted November 17, 2019 Report Share Posted November 17, 2019 2 hours ago, JonDolman said: Think Southgate really needs to work out what his tactics will be going into euros. I know it's 433. But he seems unsure what his holding midfielder will be. Personally I'd go with Winks and then Henderson right, Ox left of the 3. All massive work rate and playing at a very high level. Rice for me isn't ready. Still long way to go to see till end of season though. Things can change. I agree. They are the 3 best midfielders we have. Not sold on Mount yet nor Hudson-Odoi. Seems to me that Steve Holland's influence means Chelsea youngsters are picked before doing anything solid in club football. Be interesting who gets picked if Alli and Lingard come back to form. Can see Mount being nudged aside as it's one thing giving them a chance, another picking 23 for a tournament we could win. You want proper players for that, not someone who's had 5 good games in the Premiership. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBFC II Posted November 17, 2019 Report Share Posted November 17, 2019 43 minutes ago, grifty said: What? He does not think Mings will lead us to the Euros! Why are you making that up to put Southgate down? Kane and Sterling will be the ones he looks to lead us. People like Mings, Rice, etc (the ones people are slating) are being given game time in an England shirt in a competitive game for experience. Would you prefer we play the 1st team and the 1st team only in every game? What happens when we get an injury or suspension? The fringe players come in never having played a serious game, get over-awed and make mistakes. It honestly baffles me at how narrow-minded people can view things just to be negative. But then why play someone like mings when tomori, Webster, Gomez and possibly even Lloyd Kelly are players with a brighter future in the game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murraysrightplum Posted November 17, 2019 Report Share Posted November 17, 2019 40 minutes ago, JonDolman said: So if he isn't playing in our team to help lead us to euro glory then why on Earth is Southgate playing him! Other tournaments are available Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grifty Posted November 17, 2019 Report Share Posted November 17, 2019 39 minutes ago, JonDolman said: So if he isn't playing in our team to help lead us to euro glory then why on Earth is Southgate playing him! Because it's a squad game and he's preparing the squad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 17, 2019 Report Share Posted November 17, 2019 Just now, grifty said: Because it's a squad game and he's preparing the squad. But my point is, surely they have to be good enough to be playing at the very elite level to be winning the euros. To me Mings up against the very best in Europe, when playing in an attacking side like England are, it's a scary thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grifty Posted November 17, 2019 Report Share Posted November 17, 2019 10 minutes ago, JBFC II said: But then why play someone like mings when tomori, Webster, Gomez and possibly even Lloyd Kelly are players with a brighter future in the game? Tomori it's his first season playing Premier League football, I also believe he's been playing for the under 21s (I've just checked and he didn't play on Friday for them, so possibly injured too?). Webster has played about 10 premier league games, you can't let your City glasses cloud your judgement on why he isn't being picked for England. Gomez pulled out of the squad for this game. Kelly? Really? A championship 2nd choice left back last season, signed for the future by a Premier team and then has promptly played 0 (?) minutes in the prem? You're saying he should be picked ahead of Mings who has played every game for Villa this year + made his England debut in testing circumstances and did well. I'd prefer Mings head of Stones and Keane who are walking mistakes at the back. Mings isn't a World class centre back, but we're not blessed for in form/quality, so Southgate trying partnerships/giving people an opportunity is the right thing to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grifty Posted November 17, 2019 Report Share Posted November 17, 2019 1 minute ago, JonDolman said: But my point is, surely they have to be good enough to be playing at the very elite level to be winning the euros. To me Mings up against the very best in Europe, when playing in an attacking side like England are, it's a scary thought. I get that, but what very elite level centre backs do we have? We haven't dropped De Ligt and Ramos to play Mings, we've dropped Michael Keane! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingswoodactor Posted November 17, 2019 Report Share Posted November 17, 2019 9 minutes ago, grifty said: I get that, but what very elite level centre backs do we have? We haven't dropped De Ligt and Ramos to play Mings, we've dropped Michael Keane! Webster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBFC II Posted November 17, 2019 Report Share Posted November 17, 2019 26 minutes ago, grifty said: Tomori it's his first season playing Premier League football, I also believe he's been playing for the under 21s (I've just checked and he didn't play on Friday for them, so possibly injured too?). Webster has played about 10 premier league games, you can't let your City glasses cloud your judgement on why he isn't being picked for England. Gomez pulled out of the squad for this game. Kelly? Really? A championship 2nd choice left back last season, signed for the future by a Premier team and then has promptly played 0 (?) minutes in the prem? You're saying he should be picked ahead of Mings who has played every game for Villa this year + made his England debut in testing circumstances and did well. I'd prefer Mings head of Stones and Keane who are walking mistakes at the back. Mings isn't a World class centre back, but we're not blessed for in form/quality, so Southgate trying partnerships/giving people an opportunity is the right thing to do. Tomori is starting regularly for Chelsea, and is playing very well. Yes I’d have him ahead of mings. Webster is also playing regularly for Brighton and getting rave reviews. Having watched him (albeit at championship standard) last season, I’d say he’s a much better ball playing defender than mings, as well as having a better defensive game. Whether or not Gomez pulled out, he’d still be ahead of mings for me. Kelly has been injured all season, hence why he hasn’t had any minutes. But I’d say he is a better prospect than mings (as do Bournemouth, hence why they sold mings and replaced him with Kelly in the summer). If you want us to play players to give them experience, then surely you would play players who have more of a chance of making it as an international footballer (like the players I’ve mentioned) than mings, an average premier league centre back who was cast off by Bournemouth? The fact you’d prefer mings over stones and Keane is laughable tbh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS4 on Tour... Posted November 17, 2019 Report Share Posted November 17, 2019 3 hours ago, Super said: Thought Kosovo in large spells were the better team. 2 hours ago, Super said: They didnt have much in final third but our paasing was woeful. Not really sure how that makes them the better team in large spells ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcofisher Posted November 17, 2019 Report Share Posted November 17, 2019 Couldn’t really have been anymore of a boring group, thankfully we can forget about international football now until next summer! Now onto keeping in those playoffs! I’d take two 1-0 city wins than an England 4-0 and 7-0 anytime! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex_BCFC Posted November 17, 2019 Report Share Posted November 17, 2019 20 minutes ago, JBFC II said: The fact you’d prefer mings over stones and Keane is laughable tbh Having seen all 3 live for England I wouldn't say that at all. I don't rate any of those 3 but I could see why someone would rate Mings over them. Keane and Stones have both made horrible errors for England lately and Mings hasn't. In fact Mings looked much better against Kosovo tonight than Keane did at St Mary's. I think Gomez or Tomori is the likely long term partner for Maguire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grifty Posted November 17, 2019 Report Share Posted November 17, 2019 22 minutes ago, JBFC II said: Tomori is starting regularly for Chelsea, and is playing very well. Yes I’d have him ahead of mings. Webster is also playing regularly for Brighton and getting rave reviews. Having watched him (albeit at championship standard) last season, I’d say he’s a much better ball playing defender than mings, as well as having a better defensive game. Whether or not Gomez pulled out, he’d still be ahead of mings for me. Kelly has been injured all season, hence why he hasn’t had any minutes. But I’d say he is a better prospect than mings (as do Bournemouth, hence why they sold mings and replaced him with Kelly in the summer). If you want us to play players to give them experience, then surely you would play players who have more of a chance of making it as an international footballer (like the players I’ve mentioned) than mings, an average premier league centre back who was cast off by Bournemouth? The fact you’d prefer mings over stones and Keane is laughable tbh I'd agree with Tomori, I think he's looked very good. Mings may be being picked on reputation/how well known he is over Webster. Mings has also been getting rave reviews for Villa. I'd have Gomez too, but he was not fit for this match which is what is being discussed. Kelly has more of a chance of being an International footballer...even though Mings has played for England 1st team squad... Have a watch of the goals against Holland to see how John Stones shouldn't be near the England squad (and most likely isn't because of it too). Pep is choosing centre midfielders in defence over him... Tyrone Mings - 2 games, 2 clean sheets (OK against Bulgaria and Kosovo) John Stones - 1 game, 2 1/2 mistakes leading to goals. When giving players experience, I mean as a full team squad member who we can rely on should the 1st team suffer injuries/suspensions so they know what a competitive 90 mins feels like in an England shirt. Not chucking on a youngster for the last 10 minutes of a game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBFC II Posted November 18, 2019 Report Share Posted November 18, 2019 5 minutes ago, grifty said: I'd agree with Tomori, I think he's looked very good. Mings may be being picked on reputation/how well known he is over Webster. Mings has also been getting rave reviews for Villa. I'd have Gomez too, but he was not fit for this match which is what is being discussed. Kelly has more of a chance of being an International footballer...even though Mings has played for England 1st team squad... Have a watch of the goals against Holland to see how John Stones shouldn't be near the England squad (and most likely isn't because of it too). Pep is choosing centre midfielders in defence over him... Tyrone Mings - 2 games, 2 clean sheets (OK against Bulgaria and Kosovo) John Stones - 1 game, 2 1/2 mistakes leading to goals. When giving players experience, I mean as a full team squad member who we can rely on should the 1st team suffer injuries/suspensions so they know what a competitive 90 mins feels like in an England shirt. Not chucking on a youngster for the last 10 minutes of a game. It’s easy to pick out individual games where players have a horror show, the fact of the matter is guardiola sees him as a top player (and doesn’t pick midfielders ahead of him, no idea what you’re talking about there...) and as probably the greatest manager in the world I’d say he knows what he’s talking about. With regards to Kelly, he’s 5 years younger than mings. Kelly has so much more potential to become a better footballer than mings is or ever will be 24 minutes ago, Alex_BCFC said: Having seen all 3 live for England I wouldn't say that at all. I don't rate any of those 3 but I could see why someone would rate Mings over them. Keane and Stones have both made horrible errors for England lately and Mings hasn't. In fact Mings looked much better against Kosovo tonight than Keane did at St Mary's. I think Gomez or Tomori is the likely long term partner for Maguire. Stones is a multiple premier league winner, at a younger age than mings, and is rated by possibly the best coach in world football enough that he starts for the 2nd best side in the country every week. Keane you could make an argument for, but again he’s been a regular in a solid Burnley side before a big money move to Everton, where he’s also been playing every week. Mings struggled to get game time at Bournemouth before moving to villa, I’d say the two are incomparable especially considering they’re the same age Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex_BCFC Posted November 18, 2019 Report Share Posted November 18, 2019 3 minutes ago, JBFC II said: Stones is a multiple premier league winner, at a younger age than mings, and is rated by possibly the best coach in world football enough that he starts for the 2nd best side in the country every week. Keane you could make an argument for, but again he’s been a regular in a solid Burnley side before a big money move to Everton, where he’s also been playing every week. Mings struggled to get game time at Bournemouth before moving to villa, I’d say the two are incomparable especially considering they’re the same age We are talking about now (recent form) not Stones of a few years ago when he actually looked reasonable. No idea why he has gone downhill to the extent he has but sadly its happened. He has lost all form and Pep doesn't even like to use him. And when he does play he is awful. Keane has been dreadful for England and Everton. So yeh overall I don't see a lot between the 3 right now and I suspect most people would think that too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
22A Posted November 18, 2019 Report Share Posted November 18, 2019 The TV studio experts frequently mentioned England's defenders rarely come up against top forwards, so struggle in the finals. I'd like to remind them that England's defenders come up against top forwards every week when playing for their club sides, so why the problem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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