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Harry Kane - England Goal Machine

reddogkev

By reddogkev
in Football Chat

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Rudolf Hucker

Rudolf Hucker

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, North London Red said:

Do you count Messi or Ronaldo as international greats, given that neither of them has ever scored a goal in the knockout stage of a World Cup (and Emile Heskey has more goals in the knockout stage of the World Cup than either of them)?

And how about Lewandowski?

Ask any football supporter from any country in the world to name their best EVER team comprising international players from across the ages and I’m confident that both Messi (regardless of his international record because he’s simply a football genius) and Ronaldo will be included by the majority. In my opinion they can be and are considered ‘greats’ of the game. I just wouldn’t put Harry Kane into the same category - yet (although I may do if I lived in North London)  

 

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North London Red

North London Red

Posted
Posted
8 minutes ago, Rudolf Hucker said:

Ask any football supporter from any country in the world to name their best EVER team comprising international players from across the ages and I’m confident that both Messi (regardless of his international record because he’s simply a football genius) and Ronaldo will be included by the majority. In my opinion they can be and are considered ‘greats’ of the game. I just wouldn’t put Harry Kane into the same category - yet (although I may do if I lived in North London)  

 

That may be so, but it doesn’t alter the point that it’s questionable whether Messi and Ronaldo fulfil the criteria you stipulated for judging Kane earlier in the thread (‘scoring international goals that count for something’). Suddenly when judging Messi and Ronaldo, different criteria are being used (‘most people would pick them in their team’). 
 

I may live in north London but I have zero affinity for Spurs. And for what it’s worth I think Kane has a long way to go before he can be considered to be anywhere near the same category as Ronaldo or Messi - I hope (for England’s sake) that one day he can be. 
 

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Davefevs

Davefevs

Posted
Posted
9 hours ago, TRL said:

Kane looks a natural finisher. One of those strikers where you think what does he do that makes him so good at that he does.. and you can't put a finger on it. No great pace. Okay in the air quite strong yada yada yada but nothing that springs out other than finishing. So all I can think is that it is movement the ability to make space and that thing you cannot teach finishing ability.

 

They guy could prove to be our greatest finisher. But he is only one bad injury away from not even getting to 40.

 

Here is hoping he goes in to break more records. One thing going for him longevity.. he is never going to rely on pace so is not going to lose much of it.

⬇️

9 hours ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Kane's numbers have never been in doubt and he may go on to top the goalscoring chart.

But for me, he lacks poetry. As TRL says above, he has no outstanding playing attributes but the skills he does have all seem to come together and just make him very, very good at scoring goals.

I don't particularly enjoy watching him play though and rarely do you see him do something and go "wow". 

You both have a similar view to me.  What I want to see is all those things @JonDolman says he has be displayed in a game against top international opposition.  I’ll certainly take his goals, and he has, in fairness scored them against a range of opposition (he’s not just a ‘flat track bully’ - cricket term).  But he won’t be the complete striker until I see more than just goals...and I think he has inhibited our play in the past.  Hopefully the exciting front three we now play will help him going forward.

8 hours ago, Redpool said:

Needs to get out of Spurs imo. Think he would do very well at Real Madrid or Bayern Munich 

Yes, Lineker and Owen became better allround players from their time in Spain.

5 hours ago, Rudolf Hucker said:

Nobody's reading this so tell this to nobody James, because I'll categorically deny I ever said it, but I have never rated Rooney (I know I'm not a good judge and I've now condemned us to have him score when next we play Derby). I'm not actually saying that I don't rate Kane - just that I can't yet consider him in the 'great' category and won't until his international goals count for something.

Rooney, in the 2004 Euros was immense.  For me he was the closest player we had to a ‘Shearer’ and the closest we had to a ‘Gazza’ all rolled into one.  I don’t think he ever really reached those heights again (for England), although he was quality for Utd for a good while.

 

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Rudolf Hucker

Rudolf Hucker

Posted
Posted
8 minutes ago, North London Red said:

That may be so, but it doesn’t alter the point that it’s questionable whether Messi and Ronaldo fulfil the criteria you stipulated for judging Kane earlier in the thread (‘scoring international goals that count for something’). Suddenly when judging Messi and Ronaldo, different criteria are being used (‘most people would pick them in their team’). 
 

I may live in north London but I have zero affinity for Spurs. And for what it’s worth I think Kane has a long way to go before he can be considered to be anywhere near the same category as Ronaldo or Messi - I hope (for England’s sake) that one day he can be. 
 

Kane has played 35 competitive games for England, scoring 27 goals. At the last WC finals he scored 6 in 6 (3 v Panama, 2 v Tunisia, 1 v Columbia). In European Championship finals he scored 0 in 4.

The majority of his goals (20 in 19) have been scored in qualifiers : 4 v Montenegro and Bulgaria,, 2 v Malta, Lithuania, Czech Republic, Kosovo, 1 v San Marino, Switzerland, Scotland, Slovenia.

In cricket he’d be described as a ‘flat track bully’. You can only beat what’s put in front of you, I accept that and I think that he’s good (and I’m pleased that he’s in our team) but he’s not yet great, in my opinion.

Messi and Ronaldo are freaks who spurred each other to take football to a completely new level, albeit in La Liga. They don’t conform to standard norms and as you point out, certainly not mine!

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Alex_BCFC

Alex_BCFC

Posted
Posted
9 minutes ago, Maltshoveller said:

Told my mates Kane is nothing more than a one season wonder

That was my view then and NOTHING will change my mind about him

Well I guess now you could call him a 6 season wonder, with a WC golden boot and on course to comfortably be England's top scorer of all time.

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North London Red

North London Red

Posted
Posted
23 minutes ago, Rudolf Hucker said:

Kane has played 35 competitive games for England, scoring 27 goals. At the last WC finals he scored 6 in 6 (3 v Panama, 2 v Tunisia, 1 v Columbia). In European Championship finals he scored 0 in 4.

The majority of his goals (20 in 19) have been scored in qualifiers : 4 v Montenegro and Bulgaria,, 2 v Malta, Lithuania, Czech Republic, Kosovo, 1 v San Marino, Switzerland, Scotland, Slovenia.

In cricket he’d be described as a ‘flat track bully’. You can only beat what’s put in front of you, I accept that and I think that he’s good (and I’m pleased that he’s in our team) but he’s not yet great, in my opinion.

Messi and Ronaldo are freaks who spurred each other to take football to a completely new level, albeit in La Liga. They don’t conform to standard norms and as you point out, certainly not mine!

Fair enough. For balance I’d add that he also scored twice against Croatia in a competitive game, which isn’t included in your list above, and that if you bring in friendlies (for whatever they’re worth) he has scored against France (twice) and Germany. 

Agree with the rest of your post though!

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Dolman_Stand

Dolman_Stand

Posted
Posted
25 minutes ago, Rudolf Hucker said:

Kane has played 35 competitive games for England, scoring 27 goals. At the last WC finals he scored 6 in 6 (3 v Panama, 2 v Tunisia, 1 v Columbia). In European Championship finals he scored 0 in 4.

The majority of his goals (20 in 19) have been scored in qualifiers : 4 v Montenegro and Bulgaria,, 2 v Malta, Lithuania, Czech Republic, Kosovo, 1 v San Marino, Switzerland, Scotland, Slovenia.

In cricket he’d be described as a ‘flat track bully’. You can only beat what’s put in front of you, I accept that and I think that he’s good (and I’m pleased that he’s in our team) but he’s not yet great, in my opinion.

Messi and Ronaldo are freaks who spurred each other to take football to a completely new level, albeit in La Liga. They don’t conform to standard norms and as you point out, certainly not mine!

Comparing anyone to Messi or Ronaldo isn't really fair as they are probably the best two players to ever play the game, other than those two as strikers go in the modern game Kane is about as good as they get and certainly in the same bracket as Lewandowski. Yes a lot of his goals for England have come against poor opposition but that goes for any international striker. The likes of Owen, Shearer and Rooney would have played a similar %age of their games against this type of opponent and their goals record are nowhere near as prolific as Kane's.

We have a real chance of going far next year with Kane, Sterling and Rashford as a front three and there really aren't many better in world football.

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And Its Smith

And Its Smith

Posted
Posted
5 hours ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Maybe Miroslav Klose too. Another player with incredible numbers at international level. 

Kane far superior to Klose. Much better all round player 

33 minutes ago, Rudolf Hucker said:

Kane has played 35 competitive games for England, scoring 27 goals. At the last WC finals he scored 6 in 6 (3 v Panama, 2 v Tunisia, 1 v Columbia). In European Championship finals he scored 0 in 4.

The majority of his goals (20 in 19) have been scored in qualifiers : 4 v Montenegro and Bulgaria,, 2 v Malta, Lithuania, Czech Republic, Kosovo, 1 v San Marino, Switzerland, Scotland, Slovenia.

In cricket he’d be described as a ‘flat track bully’. You can only beat what’s put in front of you, I accept that and I think that he’s good (and I’m pleased that he’s in our team) but he’s not yet great, in my opinion.

Messi and Ronaldo are freaks who spurred each other to take football to a completely new level, albeit in La Liga. They don’t conform to standard norms and as you point out, certainly not mine!

Look at Kanes record for Tottenham. Far from a flat track bully 

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Ron W

Ron W

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Up The City! said:

Needs to do it in the big games against big opposition before he can described as a great. For some reason he appears to go missing in those games. 

Tbh a hat trick against poor opposition isnt that impressive and probably what you would kind of expect.

He might not go on to be one of the greats of the international scene but has he only done "what we'd expect"? If he has, maybe we have expectations which are a little too high.

He's won the Golden Boot at a World Cup finals, sure a number of those goals were against poor opposition but it's not like we've been playing Brazil every game in previous tournaments we've sent strikers to.

And he's the first player ever to score in every round of a European Qualifying tournament, for any country. There's been a fair amount of dross in there down the years but no-one else has done it.

We laid into Rooney for not doing it at big tournaments, then Kane went and scored seven at the World Cup and we moved the goalposts to complain that the goals he scored weren't against sufficiently good teams!

You're totally right he hasn't moved alongside the world's best on the international stage but is there not a moment to say hey, you're doing pretty well so far? If his achievements so far are just what you'd expect, that doesn't say much for 100 years of England strikers.

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