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Joe Morrell and Lee Johnson


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11 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

SOD?  Gave him his debut at 16!!!

Back to LJ, I honestly don’t know how much he’s rated him, but he made his dad take him at Cheltenham.  He certainly had Joe’s interests at heart.  Recognised he needed game time, and knew he was better than Margate and Sutton’s level at 20 years of age (now 22).

McInness convinced him to stay here rather than go Liverpool, I meant nobody saw his sudden re-emergence. If that’s the right word. 

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1 hour ago, Shtanley said:

I think LJ might rate Morrell now after this season and potentially play him next season IF we lose a central midfielder. 
 

The notion that LJ has always rated him or foresaw this sudden development is imo a load of baloney. Nobody really saw it coming and LJ is no different.

The central midfielders signed over him, the appalling lack of game time last season and the fact Morrell was free to leave us a couple seasons ago without much worry from LJ all suggest this. 

Well, depends who to believe.

Ashton says the club were going to release Joe but LJ stepped in and insisted on giving him a new contract as he saw the potential in him.

Not sure that Ashton has anything to gain from lying.. 

 

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2 hours ago, Shtanley said:

I think LJ might rate Morrell now after this season and potentially play him next season IF we lose a central midfielder. 
 

The notion that LJ has always rated him or foresaw this sudden development is imo a load of baloney. Nobody really saw it coming and LJ is no different.

The central midfielders signed over him, the appalling lack of game time last season and the fact Morrell was free to leave us a couple seasons ago without much worry from LJ all suggest this. 

That's literally just speculation on your part though.

I already challenged you on it a few days ago an you didn't acknowledge that then, repeated you speculation doesn't make it fact. Less so when we have literally been told the opposite.

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17 minutes ago, bcfc01 said:

Well, depends who to believe.

Ashton says the club were going to release Joe but LJ stepped in and insisted on giving him a new contract as he saw the potential in him.

Not sure that Ashton has anything to gain from lying.. 

 

Out of interest, here is a chronology of Morrell’s contract stuff that I can find since LJ was here:

May 2017 (aged 20) contract extended

Nov 2017 (aged 20) 2 year extension (1yr option) to summer 2019 (+1) after impressing at Cheltenham 

Jun 2019 (aged 22) 2 year deal to summer 2021 after showing what he could do in limited minutes over the winter

Nov 2019 (aged 22) 3 year deal to summer 2022 plus 1 year option after impressing at Lincoln and Wales

I guess that summer of 2017 might have been the moment the club considered moving him on, but worth extending if only to cover any development compensation payments...and maybe backs up MA / others possibly not keen, but LJ was - hence why he forced his dad to give him a loan.

No need to not believe anything that was said by MA.

 

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6 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Out of interest, here is a chronology of Morrell’s contract stuff that I can find since LJ was here:

May 2017 (aged 20) contract extended

Nov 2017 (aged 20) 2 year extension (1yr option) to summer 2019 (+1) after impressing at Cheltenham 

Jun 2019 (aged 22) 2 year deal to summer 2021 after showing what he could do in limited minutes over the winter

Nov 2019 (aged 22) 3 year deal to summer 2022 plus 1 year option after impressing at Lincoln and Wales

I guess that summer of 2017 might have been the moment the club considered moving him on, but worth extending if only to cover any development compensation payments...and maybe backs up MA / others possibly not keen, but LJ was - hence why he forced his dad to give him a loan.

No need to not believe anything that was said by MA.

 

@Shtanley mentioned in the Morrell contract thread that Joe looked at going to America as he didn't see any opportunity at City.

What @Shtanley didn't mention was that this was back in 2016, and instead was happy to leave the implication that it was a recent thing.

Quote

Morrell highlights the summer of 2016 as a particular nadir when it looked like City were ready to cut him loose and he subsequently went on trial at Fleetwood and even spent time in America assessing his options.

Source.

 

What Ashton says in the interview fits with the chronology of the things that we know as fact.

 

It would seem very odd for a manager/head coach to talk a player into staying, force their own father to take said player on loan as a condition of other loans between the clubs (source), then extend that players contract four times if they didn't rate the player at all.

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22 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Out of interest, here is a chronology of Morrell’s contract stuff that I can find since LJ was here:

May 2017 (aged 20) contract extended

Nov 2017 (aged 20) 2 year extension (1yr option) to summer 2019 (+1) after impressing at Cheltenham 

Jun 2019 (aged 22) 2 year deal to summer 2021 after showing what he could do in limited minutes over the winter

Nov 2019 (aged 22) 3 year deal to summer 2022 plus 1 year option after impressing at Lincoln and Wales

I guess that summer of 2017 might have been the moment the club considered moving him on, but worth extending if only to cover any development compensation payments...and maybe backs up MA / others possibly not keen, but LJ was - hence why he forced his dad to give him a loan.

No need to not believe anything that was said by MA.

 

What about when he said that "the coaching staff have showed a huge belief in him" 

Despite playing him only once last season when we only had him, Brownhill and Pack fit?

 

2 minutes ago, JamesBCFC said:

@Shtanley mentioned in the Morrell contract thread that Joe looked at going to America as he didn't see any opportunity at City.

What @Shtanley didn't mention was that this was back in 2016, and instead was happy to leave the implication that it was a recent thing.

Source.

 

What Ashton says in the interview fits with the chronology of the things that we know as fact.

 

It would seem very odd for a manager/head coach to talk a player into staying, force their own father to take said player on loan as a condition of other loans between the clubs (source), then extend that players contract four times if they didn't rate the player at all.

When did I imply it was a recent thing? I thought it was obvious I was talking about 2016 because everyone knows that's when it was close to happening...

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20 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Out of interest, here is a chronology of Morrell’s contract stuff that I can find since LJ was here:

May 2017 (aged 20) contract extended

Nov 2017 (aged 20) 2 year extension (1yr option) to summer 2019 (+1) after impressing at Cheltenham 

Jun 2019 (aged 22) 2 year deal to summer 2021 after showing what he could do in limited minutes over the winter

Nov 2019 (aged 22) 3 year deal to summer 2022 plus 1 year option after impressing at Lincoln and Wales

I guess that summer of 2017 might have been the moment the club considered moving him on, but worth extending if only to cover any development compensation payments...and maybe backs up MA / others possibly not keen, but LJ was - hence why he forced his dad to give him a loan.

No need to not believe anything that was said by MA.

 

Yep, it was summer that Ashton said the club were going to release him before LJ insisted on him staying.

Another contract after his success at Lincoln and Wales.

LJ always said that you could put Joe in any team and he would give the same performance level - he's proven that to be true with his performances for Wales.

LJ has always supported Joe and hopefully thats been rewarded.

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1 minute ago, Shtanley said:

When did I imply it was a recent thing? I thought it was obvious I was talking about 2016 because everyone knows that's when it was close to happening...

Do they really?

I'd suggest most don't without having to check exactly when it was.

 

Despite this, you keep on pressing your agenda despite the facts that go completely against it, facts are something you aren't doing too well with right now either.

Quote

Despite playing him only once last season when we only had him, Brownhill and Pack fit?

Morrell played 4 games last season.

Not loads by any stretch, but eliminating 3/4s of them is very misleading.

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Just now, bcfc01 said:

Yep, it was summer that Ashton said the club were going to release him before LJ insisted on him staying.

Another contract after his success at Lincoln and Wales.

LJ always said that you could put Joe in any team and he would give the same performance level - he's proven that to be true with his performances for Wales.

LJ has always supported Joe and hopefully thats been rewarded.

This summer? Summer 2019?

Just for filling in gaps:

Mch 2013 - first pro contract
May 2016 - one year deal to summer 2017

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1 minute ago, JamesBCFC said:

Do they really?

I'd suggest most don't without having to check exactly when it was.

 

Despite this, you keep on pressing your agenda despite the facts that go completely against it, facts are something you aren't doing too well with right now either.

Morrell played 4 games last season.

Not loads by any stretch, but eliminating 3/4s of them is very misleading.

In the league I meant sorry Mr Pedant!

 

What's my agenda?

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1 minute ago, Shtanley said:

In the league I meant sorry Mr Pedant!

 

What's my agenda?

You've repeatedly stated LJ doesn't rate any of our young players, despite the fact Kelly played a large number of games for what I think was his debut season (might be wrong if he made an appearence beforehand), despite the fact our squad is one of the younger ones in the division, albeit average age brought up through a couple of outliers. Despite the fact an 18 y/o has played in midfield in the majority of games this season. Despite the fact that Semenyo was given game time last season and this and given a new 4 or 5 year contract. Despite the FOUR contract extensions for Joe Morrell who you say LJ has never rated (even though we have literal video evidence to the contrary at the top of this thread, with what MA says corroborating with other things we know as fact through various interviews).

Max O'Leary played around a third of our games last season, yes enforced by injury, but if LJ really didn't trust him it would have been long before March(?) that he decides to bring someone like Marinovic in.

Maybe it's time to accept the evidence provided by reality.

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6 minutes ago, JamesBCFC said:

You've repeatedly stated LJ doesn't rate any of our young players, despite the fact Kelly played a large number of games for what I think was his debut season (might be wrong if he made an appearence beforehand), despite the fact our squad is one of the younger ones in the division, albeit average age brought up through a couple of outliers. Despite the fact an 18 y/o has played in midfield in the majority of games this season. Despite the fact that Semenyo was given game time last season and this and given a new 4 or 5 year contract. Despite the FOUR contract extensions for Joe Morrell who you say LJ has never rated (even though we have literal video evidence to the contrary at the top of this thread, with what MA says corroborating with other things we know as fact through various interviews).

Max O'Leary played around a third of our games last season, yes enforced by injury, but if LJ really didn't trust him it would have been long before March(?) that he decides to bring someone like Marinovic in.

Maybe it's time to accept the evidence provided by reality.

Not quite what I've stated and what I think. More to do with our own academy players. 

Never said LJ has never rated Morrell, he probably rates him now. I don't believe that he foreshadowed his eventual current ability like people are so claiming.

LJ was perfectly happy to sign many CMs over him and was happy for Morrell to leave the club. 

Let's have this discussion in person rather than on OTIB pal, cbfa to type up my opinions.

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Just now, Shtanley said:

Not quite what I've stated and what I think. More to do with our own academy players. 

Never said LJ has never rated Morrell, he probably rates him now. I don't believe that he foreshadowed his eventual current ability like people are so claiming.

LJ was perfectly happy to sign many CMs over him and was happy for Morrell to leave the club. 

Let's have this discussion in person rather than on OTIB pal, cbfa to type up my opinions.

You keep saying that and have no evidence of it

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6 minutes ago, Shtanley said:

Right, so you want what? Texts from the aforementioned parties? You want me to corner LJ outside his home and press him on it?

 

At least provide something to back up the claim.

You are asserting something that flies completely in the face of established facts.

 

Don't get arsey over someone wanting evidence when you are making such claims.

MA/Morrell/GJ being forced to take Morrell as part of the Moore loan/4 contract extensions all go against what you are stating, meanwhile you have provided nothing to back up you claim other than an incorrect appearance stat for last season.

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5 hours ago, Shtanley said:

I think LJ might rate Morrell now after this season and potentially play him next season IF we lose a central midfielder. 
 

The notion that LJ has always rated him or foresaw this sudden development is imo a load of baloney. Nobody really saw it coming and LJ is no different.

The central midfielders signed over him, the appalling lack of game time last season and the fact Morrell was free to leave us a couple seasons ago without much worry from LJ all suggest this. 

Are you the guy that does the podcast? You should ask @Robbored what happens when you say untruths about the manager on a forum when you're easily identifiable. 

4 hours ago, bcfc01 said:

Well, depends who to believe.

Ashton says the club were going to release Joe but LJ stepped in and insisted on giving him a new contract as he saw the potential in him.

Not sure that Ashton has anything to gain from lying.. 

 

This, someone clearly decided he was to stay and somehow Stanley is very reluctant to give LJ that credit.

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59 minutes ago, Up The City! said:

Are you the guy that does the podcast? You should ask @Robbored what happens when you say untruths about the manager on a forum when you're easily identifiable. 

Should tread carefully or the club will muffle the PA/Tannoy speakers in the area of his season ticket seat... Poor old Robbo is still suffering the consequences to this day !   ?

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I think Morrell should have been loaned out last season. LJ was a bit too worried about injuries, when sometimes you have to take a bit of a gamble and trust others can do a job in there if there's an injury crisis like Webster or Kelly, who both I believe could have done sitting jobs if Pack or Brownhill were to get injured. Obviously we had Walsh too.

I am still waiting to see how good Morrell is. I don't think one excellent game against poor international opposition, and an ok game against Hungury is enough to say he's good enough for us yet. Sounds like he is doing well at Lincoln.

Would not surprise me if he is loaned to a championship side next season if we have 4 ahead of him. Obviously depends on whether we sell any. Not a bad problem to have. Sound like Walsh is doing well as well in league one.

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8 hours ago, JamesBCFC said:

At least provide something to back up the claim.

You are asserting something that flies completely in the face of established facts.

Don't get arsey over someone wanting evidence when you are making such claims.

MA/Morrell/GJ being forced to take Morrell as part of the Moore loan/4 contract extensions all go against what you are stating, meanwhile you have provided nothing to back up you claim other than an incorrect appearance stat for last season.

Relax! Is this really worth getting worked up over?!

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9 hours ago, Davefevs said:

This summer? Summer 2019?

Just for filling in gaps:

Mch 2013 - first pro contract
May 2016 - one year deal to summer 2017

My mistake and apologies, I misunderstood what Ashton said.  He was talking about a time period when Joe wasn't making any headway.

But he did say that if it wasn't for LJ Joe probably wouldn't be with the club now.

 

 

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27 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Relax! Is this really worth getting worked up over?!

People stating bollocks they invented in their head as fact?

Yes. Because leaving it unchallenged is how nonsense like the "Chelsea signed Massengo for us" rumour suddenly gets stated as fact by people who heard it third hand, and thus it spreads like wildfire.

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4 hours ago, JonDolman said:

I think Morrell should have been loaned out last season. LJ was a bit too worried about injuries, when sometimes you have to take a bit of a gamble and trust others can do a job in there if there's an injury crisis like Webster or Kelly, who both I believe could have done sitting jobs if Pack or Brownhill were to get injured. Obviously we had Walsh too.

I am still waiting to see how good Morrell is. I don't think one excellent game against poor international opposition, and an ok game against Hungury is enough to say he's good enough for us yet. Sounds like he is doing well at Lincoln.

Would not surprise me if he is loaned to a championship side next season if we have 4 ahead of him. Obviously depends on whether we sell any. Not a bad problem to have. Sound like Walsh is doing well as well in league one.

I think he proved he is good enough last season. Looked completely up based. Whether he’s better than the current set of CMs is Lee’s job to decide. 

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21 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I think he proved he is good enough last season. Looked completely up based. Whether he’s better than the current set of CMs is Lee’s job to decide. 

He was subbed at half time for Pack vs Wolves and we improved dramatically second half (not to say it was all down to that change, we made a double sub at HT)

That may have also been for Pack's experience as much as anything else, as Morrell's midfield match up as it were was a very talented Portuguese international.

 

Morrell did look good in the other 2 FA Cup games though. Can't say I remember much of him, good or bad in his 45 vs Wolves.

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7 hours ago, JamesBCFC said:

He was subbed at half time for Pack vs Wolves and we improved dramatically second half (not to say it was all down to that change, we made a double sub at HT)

That may have also been for Pack's experience as much as anything else, as Morrell's midfield match up as it were was a very talented Portuguese international.

 

Morrell did look good in the other 2 FA Cup games though. Can't say I remember much of him, good or bad in his 45 vs Wolves.

Palmer subbed at h-t too I recall.  We were poor all over 1st half.  Wouldn’t blame it on any 1 or two players per se.

But the answer you all wanted.....5’7” ?

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30 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Palmer subbed at h-t too I recall.  We were poor all over 1st half.  Wouldn’t blame it on any 1 or two players per se.

But the answer you all wanted.....5’7” ?

Diedhiou and Palmer up top was the main problem from what I remember. And having 2 wingers in O'Dowda and Eliasson, it meant we were far too open against a quality premier league side who were well up for it.

Morrell did struggle, but so did Brownhill in the first half, so can't really say it was Morrell's fault when he probably just had too much to do in that system.

I think Palmer may have carried on for a bit in the second half. I know we went to 352. Palmer had a very poor game.

Pack coming on when leading and Wolves sitting back was ideal for him. He had plenty of time on the ball with Wolves defending their lead and not really pressurising him.

O'Dowda had gone to right wing back. Remember him playing well there second half. And Brownhill was outstanding second half. Paterson was very good when he came on for Palmer in behind Diedhiou and the sub Taylor.

Frankie Fielding nearly scored. It's strange enough for a goalie to score, but a short, weak one like Frankie, you kind of think why even go up for it! So would have been even more incredible if he'd got the equaliser.

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