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[Highguy]

2 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Bit of a mixed record tbh.

29 points already and quite a few average to poor sides...I think that isn't a great concern tbh.

Wasn’t saying we was getting relegated this season I ment we could get relegated and he still keep his job 

I remember a lot of runs where we went games without wins ain’t the first time fans have been asking for him out 

I think it time for a change get hughton and push on 

thank him for the things he done (league cup run and a win at Cardiff :laugh:)

[Mr Popodopolous]

14 minutes ago, Highguy said:

Wasn’t saying we was getting relegated this season I ment we could get relegated and he still keep his job 

I remember a lot of runs where we went games without wins ain’t the first time fans have been asking for him out 

I think it time for a change get hughton and push on 

thank him for the things he done (league cup run and a win at Cardiff :laugh:)

Okay, with you now. I think that relegation or a serious prospect of it would see SL act tbh, but only time would tell. All of this investment on and off the pitch would be pointless if we were happy to risk the drop though.

Credit to SL for showing the patience- I found myself wanting him out after Preston away in 2017 and possibly a bit before then, and wobbling on him after Leeds.

Disagree, unconvinced it's time for a change yet, but if no serious top 6 tilt or perhaps playoff place this season then maybe...all got our own opinions though.

[Highguy]

I wasnt thrilled when we annouced him but I got behind him and I’ve backed him but can only back so much when I seeing the same performances it’s not cheap following football nowadays and think we are entitled have our own opinions 

[JBFC II]

6 minutes ago, Highguy said:

I wasnt thrilled when we annouced him but I got behind him and I’ve backed him but can only back so much when I seeing the same performances it’s not cheap following football nowadays and think we are entitled have our own opinions 

You are, but when your opinion is that we should sack the manager who has taken us from relegation certainties to play off hopefuls, others are entitled to disagree

[Northern Red]

9 minutes ago, Highguy said:

I wasnt thrilled when we annouced him but I got behind him and I’ve backed him but can only back so much when I seeing the same performances it’s not cheap following football nowadays and think we are entitled have our own opinions 

And people are entitled to tell you that you're overreacting.

[Highguy]

5 minutes ago, Northern Red said:

And people are entitled to tell you that you're overreacting.

 

7 minutes ago, JBFC II said:

You are, but when your opinion is that we should sack the manager who has taken us from relegation certainties to play off hopefuls, others are entitled to disagree

Never once said people are wrong for saying I’m overreacting or should keep him 

hope I am over reacting and we go on to push for play off 

[Whale Eye Beef Hooked]

49 minutes ago, JoeAman08 said:

No we were in the same market. Their starting lineup had 1 player who cost more than out record signing in Livermore. 3 of their front 4 are  loans and frees. They spent 18m on transfers this summer we spent 25m. Their two CBs cost less than Kalas. Their RB from their academy and a teenager. This isn’t Newcastle or Villa when they come down a few seasons ago. It is a rebuilding WBA
 

Yes of course they pay higher wages they still have PP but this is a reality every year and excuses keep getting made. No one would have said a word if we went out and competed and came up short but we didn’t. We looked piss poor and got dominated. Excuses are dwindling. We were one of the biggest spenders in the division. Recent financial reports suggest we will be a top 10 wage budget this season and yet we can’t muster more than 2 shots on target in 3 games! 
 

Stop it. I desperately want us to perform and we have the tools to do so. Need to stop rationalising every poor performance and just call it what it is. Not good enough. 

So your saying that this year we have the 10th highest wage budget....  yet we are 7th so we are over achieving 

This is the championship. In my view it’s the best league in the world...,so unpredictable, it’s brilliant.   We probably deserve to be mid table but continue to over achieve and sometimes with that you have to play safe/deep 5 at the back etc because we don’t quite have the same quality that others have    We are sat in 7th whilst being probably the most healthiest club in the league. SL doesn’t want to throw loads of money at it and tbh I’m glad he doesn’t    

[JBFC II]

1 minute ago, Highguy said:

 

Never once said people are wrong for saying I’m overreacting or should keep him

But as soon as somebody disagreed you went defensive and used the old ‘I should be able to have my own opinion’ adage.

Pretty much the same thing...

[EstoniaTallinnRed]

15 hours ago, Redrascal2 said:

Although a different sport when you compare the continual progress being made by Pat Lam and the Bears, it is a sharp contrast to LJ and City. The Bears improve season on season and seem to give most teams a game however high in the league. And Ashton Gate,for the Bears, is a ground where away teams know they will be in for a tough game. If only this was the case for City as well.

Yes and just signed a top international!

[Highguy]

3 minutes ago, JBFC II said:

But as soon as somebody disagreed you went defensive and used the old ‘I should be able to have my own opinion’ adage.

Pretty much the same thing...

Because I’m not 12 (not implying your a child) and not going argue with people over internet said my opinion gave a few reasons 

[Swede]

15 hours ago, Alan Dicks said:

For Johnson.

 

Wow, THREE league defeats all season as we near December.

Season on Season improvement on League position.

Currently 7th in the League. Not bad considering the injuries to key personnel and that includes our main striker Benik Afobe who would have made a massive difference.

Higher attendances.

 

 

But of course you're right, with stats like that he's rubbish, get rid of the Head Coach and with it you'd have to get rid of the rest of the coaching staff as they are a team of coaches and of course Mark Ashton will have to go as well as they all work together.

 

The phrase I'm thinking of right now is "get a grip"  

 

[JoeAman08]

55 minutes ago, Whale Eye Beef Hooked said:

So your saying that this year we have the 10th highest wage budget....  yet we are 7th so we are over achieving 

This is the championship. In my view it’s the best league in the world...,so unpredictable, it’s brilliant.   We probably deserve to be mid table but continue to over achieve and sometimes with that you have to play safe/deep 5 at the back etc because we don’t quite have the same quality that others have    We are sat in 7th whilst being probably the most healthiest club in the league. SL doesn’t want to throw loads of money at it and tbh I’m glad he doesn’t    

Yes but there are other metrics that have us bottom 6. Performance wise we aren’t performing to a top 10 level. Maybe it will even out and I will be proved right or maybe LJ turns performances around but atm I don’t think we are performing anywhere close to 7th best team in this league. 

Agree about the league for sure. No one deserves to beat anyone. I am also not on the bandwagon to spend whatever. That said we have spent under LJ more than most sides. If we go out and have a go at West Brom with 10 shots and 6 on target and lose 3-1 then you won’t hear from me except for the positives but I have just seen us go 270 minutes with 2 shots on target. It has to be better there is enough here right now to be better

[JamesBCFC]

8 hours ago, JoeAman08 said:

No mate I went to sleep I didn’t disappear. Again the questions were posed in another comment easy enough to go back and read it. As far as the original comment and my “dishonesty” if you can’t sense the bit of humour to make it tongue in cheek then it is on you but I am certain it was quite clear. 

The only serious bit in it is that he doesn’t seem to have pressure from SL to put out good performances because they are friends. Only time will tell if that is true or not. 

Given the fact SL has almost sacked LJ once already, the answer to that is pretty obvious.

[Whale Eye Beef Hooked]

2 hours ago, JoeAman08 said:

Yes but there are other metrics that have us bottom 6. Performance wise we aren’t performing to a top 10 level. Maybe it will even out and I will be proved right or maybe LJ turns performances around but atm I don’t think we are performing anywhere close to 7th best team in this league. 

Agree about the league for sure. No one deserves to beat anyone. I am also not on the bandwagon to spend whatever. That said we have spent under LJ more than most sides. If we go out and have a go at West Brom with 10 shots and 6 on target and lose 3-1 then you won’t hear from me except for the positives but I have just seen us go 270 minutes with 2 shots on target. It has to be better there is enough here right now to be better

So now your posting sensible stuff    Agreed 2 shots on target over 2 games is poor and I’m sure we will rectify it , I just think your earlier post/comments were poor and incorrect   See below.  We are progressing not going backwards as you quoted    Also, our NET spend is low   I think it’s minus 10 million ( 25 out , 35 in ) which will have to go towards covering seasonal operational losses 

“It will be an UberXL to take him to his house so he can have a glass of wine and stroke his moustache by the fireplace with a smile knowing he can keep going backwards but keep his job because his boss is his mate”

[AppyDAZE]

15 minutes ago, JamesBCFC said:

Given the fact SL has almost sacked LJ once already, the answer to that is pretty obvious.

A nice bit of guess work @JamesBCFC

When was this? Just after the PNE 5-0 I suppose? I'm not sure what the phrase almost sacked means though, because surely you sack someone or you don't sack someone.

[Mr Popodopolous]

16 hours ago, JBFC II said:

2008 we played poor football but ground out results, sounds familiar...

2015 we were good in league one, but then crap in the championship. You’d really rather be where we were then than where we are now?

It depends if we mean 2007/08 season or 2008 as a year?

First half of season, first few months we played some very nice stuff- Noble behind Trundle or Byfield, McIndoe's technical ability, Sproule (occasionally) displaying his lightning pace- think Southampton at home.

We definitely tightened it up post Christmas and yes we rode our luck too in 2007/08 but first half of the season, I enjoyed our style. If we had Maynard that season, the 4-4-1-1 but with Maynard up top and Noble behind instead of Byfield or Trundle, who knows how it may have panned out!

Noble behind the striker was a good move though, well done to GJ for that one!

[Mr Popodopolous]

2 hours ago, JoeAman08 said:

Yes but there are other metrics that have us bottom 6. Performance wise we aren’t performing to a top 10 level. Maybe it will even out and I will be proved right or maybe LJ turns performances around but atm I don’t think we are performing anywhere close to 7th best team in this league. 

Agree about the league for sure. No one deserves to beat anyone. I am also not on the bandwagon to spend whatever. That said we have spent under LJ more than most sides. If we go out and have a go at West Brom with 10 shots and 6 on target and lose 3-1 then you won’t hear from me except for the positives but I have just seen us go 270 minutes with 2 shots on target. It has to be better there is enough here right now to be better

Certainly agree- think we've conceded the most shots in the League for a start!

We've also converted more than we've created as a standard %- Afobe getting injured has seen this decline, of course.

Our possession average is <50% so we're not necessarily winning the midfield a lot of the time either...

All put together, a top 10 certainly not! Hopefully as and when we get a near fully fit squad, performances will have a significant upturn.

[Highguy]

2 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

It depends if we mean 2007/08 season or 2008 as a year?

First half of season, first few months we played some very nice stuff- Noble behind Trundle or Byfield, McIndoe's technical ability, Sproule (occasionally) displaying his lightning pace- think Southampton at home.

We definitely tightened it up post Christmas and yes we rode our luck too in 2007/08 but first half of the season, I enjoyed our style. If we had Maynard that season, the 4-4-1-1 but with Maynard up top and Noble behind instead of Byfield or Trundle, who knows how it may have panned out!

Noble behind the striker was a good move though, well done to GJ for that one!

Yes I did mean the season overall we played football at times but we also rode out results certain games thinking back it was nice to see trundle pull the strings even if it was a swansea boy 

Abit like his dad I think he struggles to handle certain players with the big fish small pond syndrome and seems to be abit arrogant 

[Mr Popodopolous]

Just now, Highguy said:

Yes I did mean the season overall we played football at times but we also rode out results certain games thinking back it was nice to see trundle pull the strings even if it was a swansea boy 

Abit like his dad I think he struggles to handle certain players with the big fish small pond syndrome and seems to be abit arrogant 

Agreed- it was a mixed bag in 2007/08 but definitely some spectacular goals and moreover some good football first half, think 2nd half more pragmatic- some games it was Basso vs the opposition- or that's how it felt!

Agreed. I have often wondered how he handles players from a higher background- unsure about the arrogance thing, but players from a higher footballing background than him- Internationals, some of them in reasonable international teams, PL academies yet with experience- Tammy doesn't fit that, Liam Walsh does. Magnússon, did he get the best out of him? Nagy started well but now a bit less- first full season, O'Neil- the list goes on!

[ExiledAjax]

2 hours ago, JoeAman08 said:

Yes but there are other metrics that have us bottom 6. Performance wise we aren’t performing to a top 10 level. Maybe it will even out and I will be proved right or maybe LJ turns performances around but atm I don’t think we are performing anywhere close to 7th best team in this league. 

Agree about the league for sure. No one deserves to beat anyone. I am also not on the bandwagon to spend whatever. That said we have spent under LJ more than most sides. If we go out and have a go at West Brom with 10 shots and 6 on target and lose 3-1 then you won’t hear from me except for the positives but I have just seen us go 270 minutes with 2 shots on target. It has to be better there is enough here right now to be better

This will support your argument but the real issue is that we've been the poorer attacking side in almost every game this season, not just in the last two games. These are the numbers so far from our 18 league games (8 home, 10 away):

• Number of games in which Bristol City have taken at least 10 shots - 9
• Number of games in which Bristol City have allowed at least 10 shots - 17
• Number of games in which Bristol City have taken at least 5 shots on target - 3
• Number of games in which Bristol City have allowed at least 5 shots on target - 9
• Number of games in which Bristol City have had more shots, and more shots on target, than the opposition - 2 (Stoke, Charlton)
• Average number of shots Bristol City take in a match - 11
• Average number of shots Bristol city allow in a game - 16

Our only saving grace is that we are being fairly clinical - we're needing on average only 8 shots to score a goal. At the same time we have been forcing opposition teams to take 11 shots for every goal we've conceded (Bentley really showing his worth here).

We're slightly more shot shy away from home - we take about 10 shots a game away versus about 13 per game at home. Our home average is boosted by the 23 shots we had versus Charlton - this game was a bit of an outlier and without it our home average is 11. Crucially there is negligible difference in how many shots we get on target - we average about 3 shots on target across all games, regardless of where we are playing.

Shots, and shots on target, are very basic statistics with which to analyse football. However I feel that right now they suitably crystalise the difference between our performances and our results.

Wayne Gretzky's famous quote "You miss 100 percent of the shots you never take." rings pretty true for us this season.

PS. I won't go into xG right now as I know some people don't trust it - but believe me when I say it's not pretty.

 

[Mr Popodopolous]

1 minute ago, ExiledAjax said:

This will support your argument but the real issue is that we've been the poorer attacking side in almost every game this season, not just in the last two games. These are the numbers so far from our 18 league games (8 home, 10 away):

• Number of games in which Bristol City have taken at least 10 shots - 9
• Number of games in which Bristol City have allowed at least 10 shots - 17
• Number of games in which Bristol City have taken at least 5 shots on target - 3
• Number of games in which Bristol City have allowed at least 5 shots on target - 9
• Number of games in which Bristol City have had more shots, and more shots on target, than the opposition - 2 (Stoke, Charlton)
• Average number of shots Bristol City take in a match - 11
• Average number of shots Bristol city allow in a game - 16

Our only saving grace is that we are being fairly clinical - we're needing on average only 8 shots to score a goal. At the same time we have been forcing opposition teams to take 11 shots for every goal we've conceded (Bentley really showing his worth here).

We're slightly more shot shy away from home - we take about 10 shots a game away versus about 13 per game at home. Our home average is boosted by the 23 shots we had versus Charlton - this game was a bit of an outlier and without it our home average is 11. Crucially there is negligible difference in how many shots we get on target - we average about 3 shots on target across all games, regardless of where we are playing.

Shots, and shots on target, are very basic statistics with which to analyse football. However I feel that right now they suitably crystalise the difference between our performances and our results.

Wayne Gretzky's famous quote "You miss 100 percent of the shots you never take." rings pretty true for us this season.

PS. I won't go into xG right now as I know some people don't trust it - but believe me when I say it's not pretty.

 

My fear is that neither of these can last- or perhaps one of them will but the other not, but if both fall off, well when it goes it goes!

I've feared this since about sometime in September, maybe longer!

[JamesBCFC]

21 minutes ago, AppyDAZE said:

A nice bit of guess work @JamesBCFC

When was this? Just after the PNE 5-0 I suppose? I'm not sure what the phrase almost sacked means though, because surely you sack someone or you don't sack someone.

Guess work?

It's a comment coming from things that have been said by SL/MA/LJ.

IIRC there had been a meeting and MA at least was in favour of sacking LJ, but there wasn't a majority. Can't remember the details though.

 

"Almost sacked" means exactly what it bloody says. 

Surely even you are able to see there's changes in the job security that means someone can be close to losing their job, even if they don't actually do so?

[Highguy]

2 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Agreed- it was a mixed bag in 2007/08 but definitely some spectacular goals and moreover some good football first half, think 2nd half more pragmatic- some games it was Basso vs the opposition- or that's how it felt!

Agreed. I have often wondered how he handles players from a higher background- unsure about the arrogance thing, but players from a higher footballing background than him- Internationals, some of them in reasonable international teams, PL academies yet with experience- Tammy doesn't fit that, Liam Walsh does. Magnússon, did he get the best out of him? Nagy started well but now a bit less- first full season, O'Neil- the list goes on!

That season we had a few spells where was frustrating but we had a good vibe around team and in stands

basso what a guy the memories of him just make me smile, also remember adabola that season aswell come to think of it he does seem to resemble his dads playing style abit 

He couldn’t not play Tammy in that season we had him because he was a fan favourite and was scoring goals or putting in effort,

it must be hard for him being a young manager with players around your age or more experience players then you were

[ExiledAjax]

3 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

My fear is that neither of these can last- or perhaps one of them will but the other not, but if both fall off, well when it goes it goes!

I've feared this since about sometime in September, maybe longer!

Totally agree. The thing is that it's more usual for results to change to match the performances than for performances to change to match the results.

[Mr Popodopolous]

3 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

Totally agree. The thing is that it's more usual for results to change to match the performances than for performances to change to match the results.

Sadly yes, we'd really have to go some to make up that gap in performance quickly enough for results to fall into line with performances IMO.

Possibly though at times during the long LJ bad run in 2016/17, we merited more in a number of games- holding onto it working in reverse this time but I fear that you're right and things will drop off sooner rather than later.

I'm also still holding onto a hope that when we get a near clean bill of health we can go up a gear or 2- and that it's just about staying in and around the top 6 until Christmas.

[Sir Geoff]

16 minutes ago, JamesBCFC said:

Guess work?

It's a comment coming from things that have been said by SL/MA/LJ.

IIRC there had been a meeting and MA at least was in favour of sacking LJ, but there wasn't a majority. Can't remember the details though.

 

"Almost sacked" means exactly what it bloody says. 

Surely even you are able to see there's changes in the job security that means someone can be close to losing their job, even if they don't actually do so?

You are correct sir, I heard an interview with SL on TalkSPORT several years ago where he admitted that he was on the verge of sackin LJ but decided to go up to Failand and talk to the players first. To a man they backed LJ and persuaded SL otherwise. This was around the time that LJ went to a board meeting expecting the worst.

[AppyDAZE]

14 minutes ago, JamesBCFC said:

Guess work?

It's a comment coming from things that have been said by SL/MA/LJ.

IIRC there had been a meeting and MA at least was in favour of sacking LJ, but there wasn't a majority. Can't remember the details though.

 

"Almost sacked" means exactly what it bloody says. 

Surely even you are able to see there's changes in the job security that means someone can be close to losing their job, even if they don't actually do so?

MA wanted LJ out? and can't quite remember the rest?  :laugh:

Never change, James. Someone disagrees with your comment so they must be either too thick to get what your wisdom has to offer, or just a plain ******** / eggplant.

I'll tell you what, I'll let you off with the eggplant if you publicly apologise to me, and sent me a Christmas card with a £50 amazon voucher.

 

[JoeAman08]

49 minutes ago, Whale Eye Beef Hooked said:

So now your posting sensible stuff    Agreed 2 shots on target over 2 games is poor and I’m sure we will rectify it , I just think your earlier post/comments were poor and incorrect   See below.  We are progressing not going backwards as you quoted    Also, our NET spend is low   I think it’s minus 10 million ( 25 out , 35 in ) which will have to go towards covering seasonal operational losses 

“It will be an UberXL to take him to his house so he can have a glass of wine and stroke his moustache by the fireplace with a smile knowing he can keep going backwards but keep his job because his boss is his mate”

I have posted plenty of sensible things in this thread. You have quoted the one thing that wasn’t which was said with humour. Believe it or not it wasn’t a totally serious comment. I have said LJ shouldn’t be sacked but there needs to be pressure on him as I feel he is complacent because of his job security. 
 

Yes our bet spend is low but that is just to cover losses due to our top 10 wage bill. The fees plus the wages this season with be in the 50m range. That is a lot of money for a championship club without PP. My point is LJ is being heavily backed so I don’t think it is extreme to say he isn’t getting the most put of his resources. 
 

I don’t think the trend will continue of a few shots on target every 4-5 games but I find it inexcusable to go 3 games with less than a shot on goal average. None of the best sides will have a run like that. Saw Preston mentioned a few times losing 4-0 to Hull but they still had 14 shots and 4 on target. They had a go and Hull was more clinical on the night. That for me would be fine(to a degree). 

[RedLionLad]

39 minutes ago, Highguy said:

Yes I did mean the season overall we played football at times but we also rode out results certain games thinking back it was nice to see trundle pull the strings even if it was a swansea boy 

Abit like his dad I think he struggles to handle certain players with the big fish small pond syndrome and seems to be abit arrogant 

That'll be our two most successful managers in 40 years when you consider league positions.....just saying.

[Robbored]

1 minute ago, RedLionLad said:

That'll be our two most successful managers in 40 years when you consider league positions.....just saying.

It’s the age old conundrum - results v entertainment.............