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Match Report: Usual WBA thrashing owes more to LJ than superiority


Olé

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We have assembled a team of average ability that are easy to manage because they have no personality or character. 

In the past we got by by sheer hard work and effort and by not making stupid mistakes

We have no leaders and nobody that can do something different to excite the crowd

Casey Palmer reminds me of Tomlin due to his attitude pre and post fat contract.

We have no strikers who can change a game. Famy is a huge man playing like a midget. He wins so little in the air and when he does he gives away a foul. His first touch is awful. What happened to the bloke that first arrived who was fast and could take players on. Abraham was far better at holding the ball up.

Eliasson is our only winger but as with the Forest game he is too often aiming at well marked static forwards who are outnumbered because our midfield do not get in the box quickly enough to support

For me our current form is typical of what we got used to during the long winless runs under streaky Johnson. By pure luck we are picking up some points.

Last night the West Brom coach at 4.1 up was still connected to, and helping his team where LJ prefers to hold a moan session at the fourth official.

For me we have to accept that technically most teams are better than us and adapt our game to stop playing 70% in our own half, and start the heavy pressing game again

We must sign at least 1 striker in January and we must get Morrell back to give us something different in midfield

I will not be critical of our Chairman. Without him I hate to think where we would be, however I think the time for patience with LJ must stop and he must be stopped from constantly changing the team. It is not so much about results but about the team performance. 

Lets me honest, it is pretty boring at Ashton Gate just now.

 

 

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2 minutes ago, CyderInACan said:

I fully expected us to get our arses handed to us on a plate last night and predicted to @oldstandrobin we'd lose 5-1 to his prediction of 3-1. The Forest game Saturday totally underwhelmed me and exposed just how poor we really can be.

I dread to think of the reaction should we ship an early goal this weekend. 

Wouldn't surprise me, they're a struggling team that we always have troubles trying to unlock and we're low on confidence 

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The result actually seems worse than it is. As other posters have highlighted, 3 mistakes led to 3 goals. West Brom we’re the better team and deserved to win. They outplayed us, outfought us and that’s why they are top of the league. We’ve lost 4-1 to a team who are probably going to win the league or at least get promoted. 
 

A footballing lesson and a level we need to work towards if we are to get to the prem. 

on paper, the line up looked half decent. Especially with Smith and Nagy sat in front of the back 3. I feel sorry for Weimann. He works his bollocks off every game for very little reward. 

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We are an average, predictable Championship team. It feels like LJ has been penned in by his experiences in this division, trying to guard against them rather than use them to overcome the failures and develop an exciting fresh identity. 

I think a lot of the frustration with him is the hope (driven by the club and media narrative around him) that he will be one of those intelligent young coaches that comes up with bold visions and new ways of playing - but to me he seems too insecure to lead in that way.

He’s more like the annoying new manager that’s come out of business school than the maverick entrepreneur that’s got a passionate vision. 

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16 minutes ago, Red white and red said:

The result actually seems worse than it is. As other posters have highlighted, 3 mistakes led to 3 goals. West Brom we’re the better team and deserved to win. They outplayed us, outfought us and that’s why they are top of the league. We’ve lost 4-1 to a team who are probably going to win the league or at least get promoted. 
 

A footballing lesson and a level we need to work towards if we are to get to the prem. 

on paper, the line up looked half decent. Especially with Smith and Nagy sat in front of the back 3. I feel sorry for Weimann. He works his bollocks off every game for very little reward

Got little support either.

Lone striker is fine but they must be supported- if you don't do that, then they become pointless- especially someone with the skill set and energy of Weimann! Complete waste.

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The worrying thing for me is in the last 2 games we have had 1 shot on target and lost a game 4-1.

You cloud read this as clinical maybe when we make chances but we all know that's not the case so we're not making enough chances and we're not finishing them.

This is going to be tough to turn around. 

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1 hour ago, RedDave said:

Yeah improving us every year despite best players leaving is awful. Leaves me scratching my head why he’s in the job too

Personally I think this is a weak excuse - we have arguably strengthened for nearly every leaver.

Nagy (not on last night admittedly) is better than Pack.

Kalas is better than Flint by a country mile

Williams is a good replacement for Webster (not the same at all but not enough reason to start conceding 4 goals - remember the start of the years vs Palace with Webster)??

Afobe is better than Reid

Dasilva will be as good as Bryan

If you argued injuries were our problem I would partially agree (but you would still hope we would have a preferred system rather than a weekly formation lottery)?

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From the start, the lack of any outlet up front was obvious, meaning that we were always on the back foot. Smith and Nagy were never going to last more than 60 minutes, so a huge risk playing both. As on Saturday, Elliasson was briefly effective, but once West Brom focussed on stopping him getting the ball onto his left foot, he too became ineffective. 

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3 hours ago, CotswoldRed said:

LJ is beginning to remind me of those people you meet in various jobs over the years. 

They hold high management positions but you have absolutely no idea why. 

Just get the basics right LJ. For the rest of this week can you get the lads to learn "keeping the ball for more than 2 passes. There's a poppet. 

Bit like Jen in the IT crowd?  Out of his depth possibly?

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30 minutes ago, Dullmoan Tone said:

Personally I think this is a weak excuse - we have arguably strengthened for nearly every leaver.

Nagy (not on last night admittedly) is better than Pack.

Kalas is better than Flint by a country mile

Williams is a good replacement for Webster (not the same at all but not enough reason to start conceding 4 goals - remember the start of the years vs Palace with Webster)??

Afobe is better than Reid

Dasilva will be as good as Bryan

If you argued injuries were our problem I would partially agree (but you would still hope we would have a preferred system rather than a weekly formation lottery)?

Exactly.......Adopt a distinct set of tactics and stick to them. We appear to have no leaders or identity.  The constant tinkering and personnel changes seem to indicate a lack of confidence and self belief, which may transmit itself to the team on occasions?  To introduce Korey in a match like this was dumb, when a competitive Massengo would have beeen preferable.  Also not to use Fammy and Eliasson until half time was equally misguided.  Diedhiou contributes a lot defensively. as well as being a nuisance upfront?  LJ needs to get a grip. He needs to stop chopping and changing and play a settled side (injuries allowing)...he also needs to stop talking a good game, and prove his worth in actions, not blather.  PS And FFS PLEASE DO NOT .........play Bailey Wright as a Central defender, he is NOT  up to it.  PPS Thankyou Ole for an excellent analysis as always!

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Such a strange feeling after the game. I wasn't really gutted, kinda just thought "fair enough" 

I think the build up of poor performances and mildly lucky results have prepared me for it. And then the fact the opposition is top of the league. Hope the players are told to look forward not back after that 

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2 hours ago, Northern Red said:

But position in the table is what he, and every manager, is ultimately judged on.

Maybe, but I think you'll find the fans judge him on more than that.

We know that when we stagnate in this division, with little hope of promotion, and the entertainment value becomes increasingly poor, our crowds drop.

That's where we're heading now, and when the crowds decrease SL will (or should) want to know why and what his coach intends to do about it.

It's not all about league position, the club exists not only to represent the local population on a national stage but to provide them with regular entertainment too.

That's not been the case for too long now. LJ needs to pull his socks up imo., and give the fans something to shout about, and quickly.

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25 minutes ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

Maybe, but I think you'll find the fans judge him on more than that.

We know that when we stagnate in this division, with little hope of promotion, and the entertainment value becomes increasingly poor, our crowds drop.

That's where we're heading now, and when the crowds decrease SL will (or should) want to know why and what his coach intends to do about it.

It's not all about league position, the club exists not only to represent the local population on a national stage but to provide them with regular entertainment too.

That's not been the case for too long now. LJ needs to pull his socks up imo., and give the fans something to shout about, and quickly.

Isn't that just an evolution into a typical Championship side though? We've grown a lot as a club in the last few years- and we're still growing, but top 2 was always unlikely this year.

We're not in League One anymore- I am hopeful of a playoff push, but the point still stands.

That's not to say I'm necessarily happy with it right now but...

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5 hours ago, Northern Red said:

But position in the table is what he, and every manager, is ultimately judged on.

True, but what's the point of the forum for some?

Question.. Are we higher in the table than last year. Answer.. YES, so every criticism is invalid. 

Or so it would seem. 

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13 hours ago, Olé said:

Losing comprehensively at West Brom is a regular occurrence for Bristol City, but it is usually to runaway leaders that City can't hope to live with. The Baggies might have gone back top with their one sided victory but today it owed much more to an inept away side, than any real advantage. 

City have lost at the Hawthorns to better West Brom teams over the years, even as recently as last year. It says much about the shambles today that a more average Baggies side than normal could still easily have won by 6 or 7 against visitors setup in catastrophic shape and full of mistakes.

To be clear, City looked like a lower league cup side from a division or two below West Brom, torn to pieces by their own lack of quality: substitutes Diedhiou and Eliasson literally the only technically drilled players to affect the game, on a day where City's players setup defensively and fell apart.

Lee Johnson bears most responsibility, his men have been subpar for weeks now and today they simply curled into a ball and were overrun, 2 defensive midfielders in front of 3 centre backs, a compact largely redundant crowd that could not play out and were easily bypassed by West Brom. 

It was Korey Smith in his first game back and alongside Adam Nagy, who screened a three of Baker, Williams and Wright, but with O'Dowda newly installed at left back, and only Brownhill, Palmer and an isolated Weimann playing with freedom, Johnson's experiment was clearly doomed to failure.

City were already having to hoof it long in the opening exchanges and rely on either Palmer or Brownhill securing possession in front of their headless back seven, and so it was no surprise when the visitors gave it away cheaply and the hosts exploited the disorganised rabble for a 9th minute lead. 

Palmer - continually overrun - won a flick on in midfield, only for Brownhill to lose a 50-50 ball in an attempt to lay it back for Bailey Wright, Diangana in on goal, able to draw Bentley and then back heel for Gibbs to sweep home. In front of City's big away following already things looked one-sided.

City's woeful shape produced little of note as a marooned Weimann chased nothing up front, and it took ten more minutes untll Palmer held up a ball well in midfield and threaded a quick early pass to Brownhill on the edge of the area, who turned and took two touches before firing just wide.   

A further quarter of an hour was required before City would again even come close, wing back Pereira isolated as he collected the ball wide right, firing a quick long ball in to the middle which found Palmer, who hit an early spinning shot from outside the box that was easily held by the keeper.

Yet minutes later it was 2-0 as Palmer was again left isolated by City's compact deep midfield and forced to play out of trouble he surrendered play, Livermore teeing up Diangana, the West Ham loanee tumbling theatrically on the edge of the box, and Matheus Pereira curling home a free kick.

By now an anonymous O'Dowda had gone off injured after falling clumsily diving out the way of a midfield challenge, and with Rowe on West Brom finished the half all over City from both flanks, bypassing the non-existent defensive midfield screening and exploiting isolated away wing backs.

Johnson had set his team up to fail in the first half and reacted at half time with two big changes, throwing on striker Diedhiou and winger Eliasson as City switched to a  4-4-2, withdrawing the careless Wright at the back as well as profligate - but often also poorly supported - Palmer in midfield.

Amazingly City rallied for 5 minutes, albeit their rare and only period of dominance on a depressing night, and still amounting to nothing on the day. The first positive sign on 46 minutes saw Diedhiou stylishly hold up the ball and thread it wide to Eliasson whose cross was diverted for a corner.

Two minutes later City thought they had one back, but Eliasson's slipped short ball inside for Brownhill was adjudged offside even though the flag wasn't spotted and a square ball allowed Williams - still up from a period of pressure - to turn home after a mistake by the keeper, not that it counted. 

A minute later another Eliasson corner in to the middle caused panic and Diedhiou diverted it onto the underside of the bar, Williams almost bundling in. Famara was a rare touch of quality for City and he beat Baggies midfielders in the next exchange as City rallied for another few corners.

But in truth this was a rare spell of danger from an otherwise chaotic away side and the game reverted to the shapeless mess of the first half, as - inevitably - after the hour, West Brom again overran City, twice seizing on mistakes to go clear on goal, both needing goal saving interventions.

With the first away fans already drifting out and against the run of play, City finally found some fluency with 12 remaining, yet again that man Diedhiou winning the ball and spreading it wide from where Eliasson crossed and the substitute striker saw his flashed header deflected for a corner.

Eliasson swept in the resultant corner and West Brom could not clear their lines and at close range Diedhiou deservedly (for himself at least) scrambled home. 2-1 and right in front of the massed away fans the sudden possibly of an improbable push for a point and totally against the run of play.

But City's evening was characterised by sloppy mistakes and in minutes they fell behind further as Bentley cleared his lines to Nagy who misplaced his first time pass straight to Phillips who strode on and had plenty of space to square to Robson-Kanu to finish easily at close range for a 3-1 lead.

By now City's away fans poured out of the Hawthorns, but worse was to come as an already poor shape was badly exposed 5 minutes on as a hopeful punt down City's left was left and sub Furlong reacted the quickest, finding Austin in acres of space to beat Bentley at the second attempt.

4-1 and if anything the scoreline flattered City on the balance of chances. Indeed the rampant hosts would go clear on goal again in injury time as the visitors morale looked shot to pieces, although curiously this was far from the best Baggies side of recent years, City were simply that bad.

Alarm bells may now ring at Ashton Gate. Yes Johnson's men are still well placed for a promotion tilt but added to collapse at Luton last month, City have struggled for form now for weeks and for all the talk of a wide open division, were sadly exposed as abysmally setup and prepared today. 

The worrying conclusion is that constant match to match tinkering clearly seems to exacerbate City's disjointed disorganised week by week showings and this latest experimentation suggests a manager that is trying to be too clever and is affecting consistency and confidence to be cute.

 

Bentley 6 Overrun at times in the second half, may have wanted to do better with at least one of their goals

Wright 4 By no means the only weak defender and tried to play out but misplaced passes too often

Baker 5 Some crucial interventions, pick of our defence, buy gave ball away cheaply punting it forward

Williams 5 Looks classiest of defenders and had a go at set pieces at the other end... but was overrun

O'Dowda 4 Largely anonymous at wing back, often isolated, played percentages few times he got the ball, little fight and then injured avoiding a challenge

Pereira 4 A bit harsh as totally isolated and kept going all game, but wastes about 50% of the possession he has

Nagy 4 Put in a position where really could not influence game, by his own high standards looked a bit overrun and lots of mistakes towards the end

Smith 4 Big game to bring him back for and it showed, didn't really influence with or without the ball. Defensive midfield was a pointless screen WBA simply bypassed

Brownhill 4 Ran around a bit, few nice touches first half, second half you'd barely know he was playing, leadership also not obvious

Palmer 5 Some horrible mistakes but scrapes a 5 as the only one able to hold up or literally do anything with the ball until Diedhiou came on

Weimann 4 Totally let down by the tactics, almost non existent 

 

Rowe 5 Didn't fare any better than the other wing backs

Diedhiou 8 Our best player on the pitch by a mile, the only quality or composure we had - also some belated defensive wins as well

Eliasson 7 The first outlet and nuisance we had, didn't always come off, but made a difference

Generous for Palmer, who I don't remember completing a pass

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Watched the highlights back on Quest record, rewinding and slowing, pausing etc varied key bits.

I've said it before but we were so careless in possession- I understand that when heavily pressed things can go wrong, but some of the giveaways and examples of sloppiness were incredible! End of.

Those 2 offsides as well, especially Austin- not good enough, not by a long way, on the part of the lino! Though we wouldn't have deserved it, we could have had a crack at stealing an unlikely draw if the linesman had done his job right- mind you West Brom were better but my god, our cheapness in possession- not just for the goals but on several other occasions- didn't half help them!

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15 hours ago, Moulin Rougier said:

Core blimey, people lose their shit when we take a bit of a beating! I don't think that was a 4-1 game. We made 3 basic mistakes that lead to their first 3 goals - don't make those mistakes and we draw that game with a decent-ish away, defensive display to a team second in the league.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying we played well. We didn't. And boy would I like us to take it to someone soon. Getting beat 4-1 having a go is more preferable than getting beat 4-1 trying to contain but calm down.

People also saying Johnson doesn't know his best team. I'd agree with that, he needs to figure that out asap. How he doesn't when we've had these players since the summer is a tad frustrating.

For all his deficiencies, Diedhiou needs to start. We need to get Palmer free between the midfield and defensive lines feeding balls in to Weimann and Eliasson. These two can really worry defences. Smith and Nagy dovetail providing a shield/box to box presence. Get full backs overlapping. It sounds basic, so maybe go back to basics!

You're right. It wasn't a 4-1 game.

It was more like an 8-1 game.

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14 hours ago, Dullmoan Tone said:

Personally I think this is a weak excuse - we have arguably strengthened for nearly every leaver.

Nagy (not on last night admittedly) is better than Pack.

Kalas is better than Flint by a country mile

Williams is a good replacement for Webster (not the same at all but not enough reason to start conceding 4 goals - remember the start of the years vs Palace with Webster)??

Afobe is better than Reid

Dasilva will be as good as Bryan

If you argued injuries were our problem I would partially agree (but you would still hope we would have a preferred system rather than a weekly formation lottery)?

Absolutely agree with this. Apart from Williams.

We never go forward when he is in the team. Yes he pops up in the opposition box, but imo he is slow, past his best and if we are going to play three CBs it has to be Kalas, Baker and Moore. And if we are going to play two it has to be two of those. Don't understand the love in with Williams. I think he is awful.

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What a load of tribalistic nonsense, it sounds incredibly bitter. Last year City came to the Albion and could have been 4-0 up after 10 minutes, they ended the game with 52% possession and had 24 shots on Albion's goal; this year you had 45% and 9 shots. I think all statistics need context and yes, City were the architects of their downfall on occasion this year by losing the ball in their own half. However, do you not think this might be to do with how they were pressed in their own half compared to last year, Albion's football in tight spaces? What. about the numerous chances created and missed in the second half? Was that just good fortune? As somebody who watches us home and away I can tell you we're significantly better than in previous years, particularly in how we manage games, your claim to the contrary comes across as sour and bereft of any knowledge of the game. I don't doubt City could have approached it differently - the subs obviously caused us some problems - but at least try and have some balance. 

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8 hours ago, Superjack said:

You're right. It wasn't a 4-1 game.

It was more like an 8-1 game.

Ha, fair enough.

Yeh, they had other chances but they're a good side, playing at home. Bentley did what he did (the save that Austin eventually turned in was brilliant) but 8 is a stretch!

Mind you, we always concede 4 at the Hawthorns so...

1 hour ago, RedDave said:

It really wasn’t 

What he said.

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For all the criticism, the end result could have been a lot closer.

The third WBA goal was clearly offside, and should never have been allowed.  If that was chalked off, which should have been the case, then there's a chance we could have equalised.

Even their fourth goal was highly suspicious. 

First time in my life I've wished that VAR was in the Championship.  I feel the need to vomit just typing that.

Take away the 2 final goals, and we lost the game 2-1; looks and feels a lot different and I'm sure folks wouldn't be as upset. 

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On 28 November 2019 at 08:59, RedDave said:

Johnson is not allowed any continuity every season as his best players leave and lots of new ones come in. It’s nearly December and he’s not been able to field his best team due to injuries. He deserves a lot more respect and should be allowed time with a new group of players.  Clearly he’s a very good coach. 

Maybe that's the problem, he is a coach and we need a manager as well. It's an opinion I've long held onto; LJ is a good enough coach, but does the team and LJ need an experienced Manager?

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1 hour ago, YorkshireSection said:

Maybe that's the problem, he is a coach and we need a manager as well. It's an opinion I've long held onto; LJ is a good enough coach, but does the team and LJ need an experienced Manager?

I quite like LJ as a figurehead/spokesman for the club. He 'gets' Bristol City and the fans imo., and he's desperate to do well for a club he's genuinely fond of.

So I'm happy when I see him enthusiastically representing the club in the media; he's a Bristol City man, if by adoption, and in many ways is a great fit and would be an ideal individual to bring success to the club.

Whether he's a 'good coach' though is subjective and debatable, and in fact perhaps irrelevant if the end result on the pitch is the type of disjointed and confused performance we saw at West Brom and all too often on other occasions.

If LJ is this innovative & talented coach on the training pitch, and whiteboard presentations etc., then he appears he has trouble communicating his footballing philosophy and tactics to the players as well as he communicates with the media, because all too often there is little evidence of his coaching ability on the pitch.

Perhaps many of the players simply are not capable of carrying out his coaching instructions, due to a lack of footballing intelligence or ability. If so the outcome - inconsistent and confused displays - is the same, and as good a coach as he may be it's of little use if the players he has access to can't consistently put his methods in to practice.

A major disappointment is he seems to have become increasingly negative in his outlook, particularly at AG, and a 'good' coach should surely be positive, confident, and consistent in his methods so his team can best showcase his ability.

If he is a 'good' coach what does that mean? Better than some in the Championship, better than most, or very average but good enough for City's over riding aim to ensure we remain a stable Championship club? 

I don't know, but I do wonder how many opposing coaches are worried in the run up to facing LJ's Bristol City due to LJ's coaching skill, tactical nous, and the way his team are known to play. Or, in fact, is it all too often a case of LJ being the worrier and having to make radical in - match changes to style or personnel because the opposing coach has perhaps outsmarted him from the off?

 

 

 

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