My head's spinning...(Merged)

[spudski]

In response to Foggy...I think it's a culmination of things.

Firstly...we have had long time injuries to major players. Then the usual injuries you get in a season. I can't remember a week, where we haven't had players either injured or suspended from the previous week/weeks.

Secondly...our structure is to buy young hungry players, develop them, try to keep them, or sell, then start again.

It's flawed...we will always be 2 steps forward and one step back. This season imo, it's the one step back.

Imagine if we had a fit squad, where Kalas, DaSilva, Afobe were playing regularly and we still had Webster, Bryan and Reid. That's the point we need to get to, to finish top two imo. Play offs are a lottery.

Then we have new signings, that are young and inexperienced in this league.

As well as young and imo physically immature players for this league, not just mentally.

You then have your usual individuals that perform brilliantly one game, then produce poor individual performances for games after that.

We have some squad players that are bang average. Others like Semenyo that are no where near good enough yet. Others like Szmodics and Adelukin...that you can't see ever being top 6 standard.

Injuries, players out of form, players that don't fit, new signings, young inexperienced players, physically and mentally weak players (Odowda etc), a blueprint the club want to run by that will influence signings and pathways, normal out of form performances, trying to set up to not lose games instead of trying to win them. 

All those culminate in a team that is constantly changing, constantly changing its style and looking totally confused.

We've tried so many different culminations, one week it works, then it doesn't.

So do you stick or change?

That's why my head is spinning...and I imagine it's the same for LJ. 

He's constantly trying to adapt to the situation...some brought on by himself, some outside influences.

I personally see this season as one of mid table obscurity now. 

Too many weak links to make it a successful season imo...regardless of tactics, formations etc.

[Shaun Taylor]

2 hours ago, spudski said:

...so frustrated with this City side this season.

I watch us play and literally have no idea as to what we are trying to achieve on the pitch.

What is the game plan?

It literally looks like 11 individuals trying to do their best, but with no idea as to go about it.

Defensively..I can see it.

Offensively... it's make it up as you go along. 

It's so frustrating to watch.

We seem to try and play every conceivable type of football during the duration of a game. And hoping something comes off. Nothing looks planned. Literally a bunch of individuals using their best attributes.

What the hell are we doing in training?

I get the injuries, and I get players have below par individual performances...but take that into account, the squad still look clueless as to what they are meant to be doing offensively.

I've not witnessed us looking so tactically inept offensively for a long time.

Frustrating...as we know we have some good players and LJ can get it right.

But right now... it's amateur.

Being a Swindon fan for 45 years I've had to put up with lots of ups and downs and hopefully things are on the change for us and we will get out of league 2'this season.

looking in from the outside I think Bristol City are in a fantastic position with an impressive stadium, decent owner, a young manager and a huge fanbase but football is not that straight forward as we all know so all I can say is just keep in there as your time will eventually come when you get into the premiership. Yes you could change Johnson but there's still no guarantees you will get promoted with somebody new  just look at Leeds & Forest etc and there weren't many complaining after last seasons cup run.

Beeing a football fan is all about patience and looking at the table your well positioned for a play off spot so just keep believing!

[steviestevieneville]

2 hours ago, spudski said:

...so frustrated with this City side this season.

I watch us play and literally have no idea as to what we are trying to achieve on the pitch.

What is the game plan?

It literally looks like 11 individuals trying to do their best, but with no idea as to go about it.

Defensively..I can see it.

Offensively... it's make it up as you go along. 

It's so frustrating to watch.

We seem to try and play every conceivable type of football during the duration of a game. And hoping something comes off. Nothing looks planned. Literally a bunch of individuals using their best attributes.

What the hell are we doing in training?

I get the injuries, and I get players have below par individual performances...but take that into account, the squad still look clueless as to what they are meant to be doing offensively.

I've not witnessed us looking so tactically inept offensively for a long time.

Frustrating...as we know we have some good players and LJ can get it right.

But right now... it's amateur.

He admitted in the past to over complicating tactics and it looks like he’s doing it again, playing real life edition of football manager with his new training ground big tv. I think having players back from injury doesn’t help him strangely . Just keep it simple, players prefer simple instruction and they look confused.  

[Mr Popodopolous]

13 minutes ago, spudski said:

In response to Foggy...I think it's a culmination of things.

Firstly...we have had long time injuries to major players. Then the usual injuries you get in a season. I can't remember a week, where we haven't had players either injured or suspended from the previous week/weeks.

Secondly...our structure is to buy young hungry players, develop them, try to keep them, or sell, then start again.

It's flawed...we will always be 2 steps forward and one step back. This season imo, it's the one step back.

Imagine if we had a fit squad, where Kalas, DaSilva, Afobe were playing regularly and we still had Webster, Bryan and Reid. That's the point we need to get to, to finish top two imo. Play offs are a lottery.

Then we have new signings, that are young and inexperienced in this league.

As well as young and imo physically immature players for this league, not just mentally.

You then have your usual individuals that perform brilliantly one game, then produce poor individual performances for games after that.

We have some squad players that are bang average. Others like Semenyo that are no where near good enough yet. Others like Szmodics and Adelukin...that you can't see ever being top 6 standard.

Injuries, players out of form, players that don't fit, new signings, young inexperienced players, physically and mentally weak players (Odowda etc), a blueprint the club want to run by that will influence signings and pathways, normal out of form performances, trying to set up to not lose games instead of trying to win them. 

All those culminate in a team that is constantly changing, constantly changing its style and looking totally confused.

We've tried so many different culminations, one week it works, then it doesn't.

So do you stick or change?

That's why my head is spinning...and I imagine it's the same for LJ. 

He's constantly trying to adapt to the situation...some brought on by himself, some outside influences.

I personally see this season as one of mid table obscurity now. 

Too many weak links to make it a successful season imo...regardless of tactics, formations etc.

If it was a season of building yet still pushing at the top 6, then that's one I could accept what with the injuries etc- but that would feel like a big step back.

Agree with a lot of your post btw, changing style, formation and team- injuries notwithstanding- certainly doesn't help! Some of it unavoidable though.

[KnowleUtd City]

1 hour ago, phantom said:

But we replaced them we just as good players, if not better

Apart from Afobe we haven't had a decent number 9 striker for years - the thing that concerns me we have said the same thing going into the January transfer window for many a year now 

That's subjective though, I personally would have Webster, Kelly, Pack, & Reid in our starting X1 at the moment. 

But I understand how trading works, maybe the last two summer windows are catching up with us a bit.

[Midred]

1 hour ago, Cowshed said:

I will give it a brief go.

In theory players won't play 100% through any conditions. Humans are not wired like that. Working towards that is the dream where the tactical, technical, physical and psychological all work in unison. The very best are still flawed - Think about the stars at the zenith of the game.   

Sports science and sports psychology leans towards frequently to not address things after a match, its too raw for lots of reflection. The post match starts today.

Techniques like 80/20 can be used.  Address 20% of the negatives, not 80%. Remember to focus on the positives that did exist. This is proven to be more effective. Common sense really v its was all crap, you, you and even the ref was crap. 

In regards to your second paragraph. These are uncontrollables. A lot of work is done with pros to focus on what they can control. Becoming emotional with what you do not control obviously affects performance. We know we will have automatic negative thoughts (ants) by focussing on what we can control v what we cannot those ants can be governed. Players can use self talk to control emotion, they can be assisted to do so -  City do use psychologists to assist and support players, and the Manager/Coaches. 

In Lee talk we go again.

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks, I think I understand that.

I just wonder sometimes if the players momentarily lose their focus, (as anyone does), after an apparent injustice?

[JoeAman08]

We seem to have a new direction every summer.
 

First summer keep the core of the L1 side together and be frugal. Not a LJ summer

Second summer, first under LJ. Go all in on youth. Signed 5-6 under 22 year olds to develop. Half working out half not but fair enough if that is the direction. 
 

Third summer, trying to find the right blend of youth and experience. Mix of domestic and abroad. 
 

Fourth summer, all proven english leagues players mostly in mid 20s so hoping for proven players in prime or about to be. 
 

This past summer, back to a blend of youth and experience and domestic and abroad. 
 

Doesn’t seem like we have ever gotten the recruitment mix right. Feels stretched.

Are we going to eye mid 20 year old bargains from England like Weimann and Hunt?

Are we going to focus on youth from England like Brownhill, COD, Walsh, Adelakun and Szmodics? 

Are we going to shop abroad for high calibre players for value like Fam, Nagy, and Magnússon? 
 

Are we going to see if we can pluck some wonderkids from European academies like Massengo and Periera? 
 

Feels like we are stretching too far. Pick 2 of those and stick with it. Make them your speciality. Brentford shop for exclusively young but high calibre in England and across Europe. Preston are almost exclusively young and domestic. 
 

LJs tactics have been boring but how much say does he get on incomings? Is he chopping and changing what he wants in a recruit as much as he does what he wants on the pitch? Feels like everything is a scattergun approach and I am 100% sure if we stuck with a tactic and starting XI for 10 games in a row we would find a rhythm and be a top 6 side. Then if we stuck with a recruitment plan for 5-6 windows we would increasingly get better. As long as LJ has been here it feels like we are starting over from what we had in may to what we have in August and outgoing sales imo only affect that a small amount

[Cowshed]

23 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

I am genuinely interested to know what the likes of @spudski and @Cowshed (who clearly know their stuff) would do with the team (in terms of tactics/squad selection) between now and January

On the spot here we go … Sort of.

Last season I posted about a 4-4-1-1 and individual team selection. Its not what I liked but it was pragmatic. It was consistent. Boring but it defined elements of play - Defending, shape and crossing = Intent and approach.

This season? 

Its self reflection time. As a coach look at yourself rather than the individuals. Is this my football beyond the metric of points really working? Is the team performing close to efficiency? 

If the answer is no break it down.

The game is five elements. How are these elements (defense, offense, transitions ..) performing? Self reflect again is what I am attempting pragmatic across these elements? Do the players skill sets meet the team need as defined by myself? 

Between now and January I would focus consistently on playing principles across those elements. In possession starting at the Keeper and back ? How do we move the ball forward? Midfield are we looking to keep it or penetrate quickly? Forwards .. Feet or no? Principle are we possession based or not? 

Here I would look to establish a base to improve upon. I would look to establish the teams architects. The players who will define it. Last season I highlighted Famara .. He plays each week and we work with that or he goes.

You have not got tactics/squad selection there. Its more simplistic - Less complexity and change.  

[Simon79]

1 hour ago, spudski said:

You've not disagreed with me RR.

You've insinuated pretty much everything I've said.

Of course I don't have the coaching badges and experience...just basic FA badges at entry level.

However...you don't need all the experience and badges at Pro level to see with some experience what's going on.

I try to speak in layman terms and not use terminology straight out of the manuals. 

 

 

 

When I get an hour I'll try fella.

& for that I thank you. Cause that really does get on my nerves. Like a lot of things in football currently, over complicating things. COYR 

[Cowshed]

7 minutes ago, Midred said:

Thanks, I think I understand that.

I just wonder sometimes if the players momentarily lose their focus, (as anyone does), after an apparent injustice?

Yes they do. Some carry it around with them for the rest of the game. This can be wholly negative. But some again can reframe that injustice, put it into perspective by themselves, and some players can be educated to do so.

There is a psychological exercise called Bamming ( Body Active Move). This relates to the response directly after an event. Body = Head up and scan pitch. Active = Up on toes . Move = Get well moving.  A method for some. Useless for others ... We are all different.  

[LondonBristolian]

40 minutes ago, Shaun Taylor said:

Being a Swindon fan for 45 years I've had to put up with lots of ups and downs and hopefully things are on the change for us and we will get out of league 2'this season.

looking in from the outside I think Bristol City are in a fantastic position with an impressive stadium, decent owner, a young manager and a huge fanbase but football is not that straight forward as we all know so all I can say is just keep in there as your time will eventually come when you get into the premiership. Yes you could change Johnson but there's still no guarantees you will get promoted with somebody new  just look at Leeds & Forest etc and there weren't many complaining after last seasons cup run.

Beeing a football fan is all about patience and looking at the table your well positioned for a play off spot so just keep believing!

Cheers for this. I think part of the problem with football is everything always feels either wonderful or terrible and it is hard to get perspective.

I think the reality is that Lee Johnson is a flawed manager who makes mistakes with selections and tactics but that he is also a very capable manager who is committed to the club, wants to get things right and, all in all, has undoubtedly improved us as both a club and a team.

There is a lot frustrating me at the moment, and the football is not a lot of fun to watch right now, but I think we have far more to lose than to gain by overreacting. There is no manager who is guaranteed to bring success to a club and any manager who doesn't make mistakes is unlikely to be managing in the Championship. I really want LJ to learn and our football to improve but I do appreciate all that Johnson has done and am glad he is at the helm. 

[pillred]

47 minutes ago, Shaun Taylor said:

Being a Swindon fan for 45 years I've had to put up with lots of ups and downs and hopefully things are on the change for us and we will get out of league 2'this season.

looking in from the outside I think Bristol City are in a fantastic position with an impressive stadium, decent owner, a young manager and a huge fanbase but football is not that straight forward as we all know so all I can say is just keep in there as your time will eventually come when you get into the premiership. Yes you could change Johnson but there's still no guarantees you will get promoted with somebody new  just look at Leeds & Forest etc and there weren't many complaining after last seasons cup run.

Beeing a football fan is all about patience and looking at the table your well positioned for a play off spot so just keep believing!

I know you mean well but patience, I don't know whether to laugh or cry.

[Red-Robbo]

I suppose if last night proved anything it's that having an uber-defensive formation to try to stop top clubs from scoring doesn't work.

The best way to keep the pressure off your goal is to keep the ball up the other end. For too much of the game we had no real way to get it up there. That is Lee's challenge. A formation that will carry the ball forward and keep it there for more than a couple of minutes.

I know it sounds simplistic, but that is the crux of the matter.

If we'd peppered their goal, but still lost, I'd be unconcerned.

But to have consecutive matches with hardly any real chances is deeply worrying.

Luckily for the club, I'm unable to go to the Huddersfield game - which usually means they'll pull out their performance of the season! :laugh:

[Abingdon Red]

3 hours ago, spudski said:

...so frustrated with this City side this season.

I watch us play and literally have no idea as to what we are trying to achieve on the pitch.

What is the game plan?

It literally looks like 11 individuals trying to do their best, but with no idea as to go about it.

Defensively..I can see it.

Offensively... it's make it up as you go along. 

It's so frustrating to watch.

We seem to try and play every conceivable type of football during the duration of a game. And hoping something comes off. Nothing looks planned. Literally a bunch of individuals using their best attributes.

What the hell are we doing in training?

I get the injuries, and I get players have below par individual performances...but take that into account, the squad still look clueless as to what they are meant to be doing offensively.

I've not witnessed us looking so tactically inept offensively for a long time.

Frustrating...as we know we have some good players and LJ can get it right.

But right now... it's amateur.

The problem seems to be that we don't adopt the correct tactic/formation to suit the players we have available.

For instance if you have Moore, Kallas, Williams, Dasilva and Hunt available then you can play three at the back with wing backs. If any of those players are not available that option looks less advised.

If we our full back options are not Dasilva and Hunt then they really shouldn't be operating with wing backs.

[Fpcity]

I've always thought Johnson thinks he's a junior Pep and tries to be clever trying to nullify the opposition instead of playing to our strengths. In nearly every game we only come alive after making 2-3 subs and overloading the box. 

It looks like the players haven't a clue what's the plan at kick off 

[city1983]

2 hours ago, Pezo said:

Too much change over the last couple years maybe? We have almost a completely different side to the one that beat Man U. Still not sure it's a good enough excuse. 

this is a good point.

i'm also not convinced that there is any real strategy in recruitment beyond buying youngsters who's value increase.  when people bemoan about our lack of coherent game plan and identity etc, Johnson probably doesnt have a squad of players brought together to play a specific style or brand of football making it difficult to do so on a regular basis. I think his prefered style of play would be a high pressing game as he used to preach but certainly doesnt have a squad of players assembled that can do so. maybe that is down to the manager maybe it isnt, maybe i'm completely wrong

[Fpcity]

7 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

I suppose if last night proved anything it's that having an uber-defensive formation to try to stop top clubs from scoring doesn't work.

The best way to keep the pressure off your goal is to keep the ball up the other end. For too much of the game we had no real way to get it up there. That is Lee's challenge. A formation that will carry the ball forward and keep it there for more than a couple of minutes.

I know it sounds simplistic, but that is the crux of the matter.

If we'd peppered their goal, but still lost, I'd be unconcerned.

But to have consecutive matches with hardly any real chances is deeply worrying.

Luckily for the club, I'm unable to go to the Huddersfield game - which usually means they'll pull out their performance of the season!

Be heard big Sam say the same thing about keeping the ball as far away from your goal as possible and you won't concede. Another thing he said is that it will be interesting to see the stats at the end of the season as to how many goals are scored from playing out from the back and how many conceded from mistakes doing it. I know it's all the fashion to play from the back but most teams don't have the players to 

[city1983]

40 minutes ago, paul_fox said:

Be heard big Sam say the same thing about keeping the ball as far away from your goal as possible and you won't concede. Another thing he said is that it will be interesting to see the stats at the end of the season as to how many goals are scored from playing out from the back and how many conceded from mistakes doing it. I know it's all the fashion to play from the back but most teams don't have the players to 

indeed.

the most infuriating thing is when the goal keeper plays it out and we mess around with it in defense almost conceding possession several times, play it back to the goal keeper because we've run out of options, then the goal keeper lumps it forward straight to an opposing centre back with them pressed further up the field. happens all too often.  

[marmite]

LJ was at a Senior Reds dinner not long ago and was asked a question about our "identity". His answer lasted for at least 5 minutes and he left the audience even more confused than they were before. If they couldn't understand the plan, maybe the players cant either.

[Selred]

We need to find a style of play, a formation, and stick to it. Get in players right for it. 

Right now, in the words of Gary, we have a lot of clubs in the bag. The issue is we don't know what course we are playing. 

The defense just about makes sense. But not fully sure on the job of the full backs.

Midfield, what are we doing with them? 1 attacking, 1 defensive? 2 defensive? 3 flat?

How are we creating chances? Well really we aren't. 

 

[Mr Popodopolous]

5 minutes ago, marmite said:

LJ was at a Senior Reds dinner not long ago and was asked a question about our "identity". His answer lasted for at least 5 minutes and he left the audience even more confused than they were before. If they couldn't understand the plan, maybe the players cant either.

Corrected based on recent game plans.

[ExiledAjax]

2 hours ago, spudski said:

He's constantly trying to adapt to the situation...some brought on by himself, some outside influences.

I think this identifies a key issue in the way the management run the team right now.

They are reactive instead of proactive. Currently LJ and his team are preoccupied with reacting to elements they cannot control - injuries, suspensions, loss of form etc. 

We see this during games as well: reacting by making double subs, and waiting until we're behind to make changes.

The trouble is whenever you are reactive you'll always be one step behind. You'll always be handing the initiative to your opposition.

LJ talks about decision makers, about trying to coach the players to solve problems themselves. This is good but in my opinion needs to be focussed on teaching an anticipation of a problem, or on imposing a problem upon the opposition and forcing them to react. We have done this before under this coaching staff and we are capable of doing it again.

Doing so should result in a more proactive team that has an active manner. How that manifests would be up to the individuals but I think a renewed focus on positive, proactive management and play would really bring some benefits.

[Robbored]

17 minutes ago, marmite said:

LJ was at a Senior Reds dinner not long ago and was asked a question about our "identity". His answer lasted for at least 5 minutes and he left the audience even more confused than they were before. If they couldn't understand the plan, maybe the players cant either.

Yep......it was me who asked him the question and he waffled without actually saying anything.......

[pongo88]

I wish LJ would learn how to kiss - Keep It Simple Stupid. Determine what is City’s best formation with the current group of players and stick to it. 

[Bazooka Joe]

59 minutes ago, marmite said:

LJ was at a Senior Reds dinner not long ago and was asked a question about our "identity". His answer lasted for at least 5 minutes and he left the audience even more confused than they were before. If they couldn't understand the plan, maybe the players cant either.

After performances like last night's, I crave for someone to commit identity-theft on us.

43 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Yep......it was me who asked him the question and he waffled without actually saying anything.......

Sounds familiar.

[Cowshed]

3 hours ago, BTRFTG said:

Anybody can get coaching badges and it doesn't mean those who've formalised a qualification are any more skilled than those who've never bothered. By your argument ex players and pundits without badges know less of the game than jobbing pros who went into management as they had time to kill when their careers stalled.

What I do know is no amount of drones, grass measuring equipment or player therapy sessions will ever compensate for a manager who thinks the future lies in players such as Watkins, CoD, Paterson or Adelakun (or all those other nomarks who came, failed and went without leaving trace.) Or thinking that prolific goal-machine Weimann in isolation, wide, up top will pose any type of threat.

Perhaps Johnson skipped the 'talent recognition' and 'offensive theory' modules.

Off at a tangent. 

Anybody cannot. At level three (EUFA B) there are criteria to be met. The FA will turn down applicants. All are vetted thoroughly for suitability. 

At level four (EUFA A) the criteria is raised higher.    

[OnCider]

4 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

I'm glad you mentioned this.

Haven't read through all the threads but Williams- saw it last night on Quest- but definitely off? Would have to watch again of course as kind of missed it in real time.

LJ also queries the free kick for their 2nd.

I was at the game last night and they actually showed the third goal on the big screen and showed the offside then quickly removed it.

It does bring to mind @Olé's conspiracy theory about parachute payments.  Or I could be slightly salty.

[Mr Popodopolous]

2 minutes ago, OnCider said:

I was at the game last night and they actually showed the third goal on the big screen and showed the offside then quickly removed it.

It does bring to mind @Olé's conspiracy theory about parachute payments.  Or I could be slightly salty.

Was this the third or the fourth- getting hard done by as often as we have the last 6 months makes it hard to keep up!  

[BRISTOL86]

1 hour ago, Selred said:

We need to find a style of play, a formation, and stick to it. Get in players right for it. 

Right now, in the words of Gary, we have a lot of clubs in the bag. The issue is we don't know what course we are playing. 

The defense just about makes sense. But not fully sure on the job of the full backs.

Midfield, what are we doing with them? 1 attacking, 1 defensive? 2 defensive? 3 flat?

How are we creating chances? Well really we aren't. 

 

This. Not rocket science. People love to over complicate what is, at a fundamental level, a very basic concept. 

If it’s pre season and you have a blank canvas then pick a system that you want to implement and recruit players that have the attributes you need to perform it effectively.

If it’s halfway through the season and you can’t recruit, then pick a system that suits the strengths of the group that you have available to you. 

[NOTBLUE]

From when I first started watching us , we did play a certain way,with wingers and overlapping full backs,and 90% of the time it was exciting to watch.Not saying this would work in the modern game,but we did have an identity.Now,I haven’t got a clue what our identity is.As others have said football is a simple game,so keep it simple.