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spudski

My head's spinning...(Merged)

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Tactics, formation, selection are all over the place, and the players appear confused.

We've got a number of quality players but none are individually playing to their potential and the team as a whole all too often looks disjointed and poor.

So it has to come down to the coach I'm afraid.

The biggest problem for the club is not league position ( it's solid and we're very unlikely to be relegated) but the increasing disaffection and apathy of the fans who are neither getting any entertainment or enjoyment from watching frustrating and boring displays.

It's really hard work watching City these days even if we win.

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24 minutes ago, spudski said:

...so frustrated with this City side this season.

I watch us play and literally have no idea as to what we are trying to achieve on the pitch.

What is the game plan?

It literally looks like 11 individuals trying to do their best, but with no idea as to go about it.

Defensively..I can see it.

Offensively... it's make it up as you go along. 

It's so frustrating to watch.

We seem to try and play every conceivable type of football during the duration of a game. And hoping something comes off. Nothing looks planned. Literally a bunch of individuals using their best attributes.

What the hell are we doing in training?

I get the injuries, and I get players have below par individual performances...but take that into account, the squad still look clueless as to what they are meant to be doing offensively.

I've not witnessed us looking so tactically inept offensively for a long time.

Frustrating...as we know we have some good players and LJ can get it right.

But right now... it's amateur.

You posts have a exasperated theme.

Change is a feature of Lee Johnson in charge. The highlighted can be a consequence of his change. He is now changing around the foundation (its shape and intent) as well as the offense.

What are they doing in training? Too much. Systems are not imbedded over a session, its months, some think its months in the long term. 

A team is reflection of the ideas/ideals of its coach. This coach has lots of them. The (Championship) players are not equipped technically for the multiple ideas. The outcome of all this change should not be head spinning because its logical.

  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Cowshed
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One positive of this 'group' is they really try hard. They might make mistakes but they don't shirk their responsibility. I bet the stats show we work as hard as any other team. 

But West Brom didn't need to any of the frantic chasing and last ditch defending because they were just very organised and played it simple.

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Too much change over the last couple years maybe? We have almost a completely different side to the one that beat Man U. Still not sure it's a good enough excuse. 

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29 minutes ago, spudski said:

...so frustrated with this City side this season.

I watch us play and literally have no idea as to what we are trying to achieve on the pitch.

What is the game plan?

It literally looks like 11 individuals trying to do their best, but with no idea as to go about it.

Defensively..I can see it.

Offensively... it's make it up as you go along. 

It's so frustrating to watch.

We seem to try and play every conceivable type of football during the duration of a game. And hoping something comes off. Nothing looks planned. Literally a bunch of individuals using their best attributes.

What the hell are we doing in training?

I get the injuries, and I get players have below par individual performances...but take that into account, the squad still look clueless as to what they are meant to be doing offensively.

I've not witnessed us looking so tactically inept offensively for a long time.

Frustrating...as we know we have some good players and LJ can get it right.

But right now... it's amateur.

For me, what makes it so frustrating is that we get the spill from LJ that we have to play with an identity! And then we seemingly don’t play our best players in the hope of throwing the opposition off their game & making them change their tactics, which they don’t do!

All season we have needed to play our best team available & have a go at the opposition but instead we set-up every game like we are the away team & hope that we are still in with a chance at about the 70 minute mark & then we might just sneak a goal!

We don’t have an ‘identity’ because we don’t know how to play properly, stop worrying about the opposition & start worrying about our own performance, we seemingly have a better squad than that of our Caraboa Cup run where we pressed everyone & yet now we seemingly don’t know our ass from our elbow!! And even a 50 goal a season striker wouldn’t solve this problem right now!

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To start, I've never played football outside of the playground so I know very little about the physical or mental stresses on a professional footballer. Being professional footballers they should in theory play through any conditions in any match.

This is no excuse, (well maybe), for last nights performance. What effect does it have on players when they pick up two yellow cards for relatively soft fouls and their opponents seemingly go unpunished? Similarly the effect of having a goal ruled offside for them and then two goals for the opposition, equally offside are allowed to stand? 

I know I'm treading a well worn path here but for any of you who do or have played serious football please help me out? I wonder how LJ addresses this with the players after a match.

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I feel a major part of the problem is that we still have a hangover of players who don't really fit in with how ( I think) we are seeking to play and it exposes us when we need to play them. Baker and Wright are both very solid Championship defenders but neither are comfortable on the ball and, when Kalas and Moore are missing, 3 at the back with no ball playing defender has a massive impact on our ability to control a game.

Meanwhile Diedhiou is a hard worker but I feel he works better in teams that play on the front foot rather than the counter attacking approach we seem to want to take.

And then Palmer and Eliasson are our two most creative players but neither fit the formation.

LJ has a lot of credit in the bank but I feel at the moment the way he wants us to play isn't the way that gets the best our of the players that he actually has available and that is a real problem.

Nobody wants constant chopping and changing and there has to be a consistent plan to work towards but the formation and approach has to also reflect the players we have available and, particularly at the moment, I just don't think it does. 

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16 minutes ago, Midred said:

To start, I've never played football outside of the playground so I know very little about the physical or mental stresses on a professional footballer. Being professional footballers they should in theory play through any conditions in any match.

This is no excuse, (well maybe), for last nights performance. What effect does it have on players when they pick up two yellow cards for relatively soft fouls and their opponents seemingly go unpunished? Similarly the effect of having a goal ruled offside for them and then two goals for the opposition, equally offside are allowed to stand

I know I'm treading a well worn path here but for any of you who do or have played serious football please help me out? I wonder how LJ addresses this with the players after a match.

I'm glad you mentioned this.

Haven't read through all the threads but Williams- saw it last night on Quest- but definitely off? Would have to watch again of course as kind of missed it in real time.

LJ also queries the free kick for their 2nd.

Edited by Mr Popodopolous

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46 minutes ago, spudski said:

...so frustrated with this City side this season.

I watch us play and literally have no idea as to what we are trying to achieve on the pitch.

What is the game plan?

It literally looks like 11 individuals trying to do their best, but with no idea as to go about it.

Defensively..I can see it.

Offensively... it's make it up as you go along. 

It's so frustrating to watch.

We seem to try and play every conceivable type of football during the duration of a game. And hoping something comes off. Nothing looks planned. Literally a bunch of individuals using their best attributes.

What the hell are we doing in training?

I get the injuries, and I get players have below par individual performances...but take that into account, the squad still look clueless as to what they are meant to be doing offensively.

I've not witnessed us looking so tactically inept offensively for a long time.

Frustrating...as we know we have some good players and LJ can get it right.

But right now... it's amateur.

It’s not often I disagree with you Spudski but I assume you don’t have the same FA coaches badges as LJ and his assistants have.

I respect your knowledge into the tactical side of the game but essentially you are the same as the rest of us - an amateur.

Watching the Forest match last Saturday I was frustrated by the lack of attacking flair. No player running at the defence trying to create havoc. Pedestrian play that reminded of one our previous managers. The players looked shackled and unwilling to break out and play their own game. It  left me wondering just what instructions LJ gives them............

 

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20 minutes ago, Trueredsupporter said:

after that damning review I would quite like to read what you would like to see happen spudski??

Yeah, keep selling our most valuable players and not having a decent striker for over a year. 

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3 hours ago, swanker said:

Yeah, keep selling our most valuable players and not having a decent striker for over a year. 

But we replaced them with just as good players, if not better

Apart from Afobe we haven't had a decent number 9 striker for years - the thing that concerns me we have said the same thing going into the January transfer window for many a year now 

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30 minutes ago, Midred said:

To start, I've never played football outside of the playground so I know very little about the physical or mental stresses on a professional footballer. Being professional footballers they should in theory play through any conditions in any match.

This is no excuse, (well maybe), for last nights performance. What effect does it have on players when they pick up two yellow cards for relatively soft fouls and their opponents seemingly go unpunished? Similarly the effect of having a goal ruled offside for them and then two goals for the opposition, equally offside are allowed to stand? 

I know I'm treading a well worn path here but for any of you who do or have played serious football please help me out? I wonder how LJ addresses this with the players after a match.

I will give it a brief go.

In theory players won't play 100% through any conditions. Humans are not wired like that. Working towards that is the dream where the tactical, technical, physical and psychological all work in unison. The very best are still flawed - Think about the stars at the zenith of the game.   

Sports science and sports psychology leans towards frequently to not address things after a match, its too raw for lots of reflection. The post match starts today.

Techniques like 80/20 can be used.  Address 20% of the negatives, not 80%. Remember to focus on the positives that did exist. This is proven to be more effective. Common sense really v its was all crap, you, you and even the ref was crap. 

In regards to your second paragraph. These are uncontrollables. A lot of work is done with pros to focus on what they can control. Becoming emotional with what you do not control obviously affects performance. We know we will have automatic negative thoughts (ants) by focussing on what we can control v what we cannot those ants can be governed. Players can use self talk to control emotion, they can be assisted to do so -  City do use psychologists to assist and support players, and the Manager/Coaches. 

In Lee talk we go again.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Cowshed
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42 minutes ago, mozo said:

One positive of this 'group' is they really try hard. They might make mistakes but they don't shirk their responsibility. I bet the stats show we work as hard as any other team. 

But West Brom didn't need to any of the frantic chasing and last ditch defending because they were just very organised and played it simple.

There you have said it, football IS a simple game at heart we are just making it too complicated. Get back to the basics and we have the players to do well I'm convinced of that.

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14 minutes ago, Robbored said:

It’s not often I disagree with you Spudski but I assume you don’t have the same FA coaches badges as LJ and his assistants have.

I respect your knowledge into the tactical side of the game but essentially you are the same as the rest of us - an amateur.

Watching the Forest match last Saturday I was frustrated by the lack of attacking flair. No player running at the defence trying to create havoc. Pedestrian play that reminded of one our previous managers. The players looked shackled and unwilling to break out and play their own game. It  left me wondering just what instructions LJ gives them............

 

Sounds like you agree with Spudski to me, he said basically the same as you have just said.

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15 minutes ago, Robbored said:

It’s not often I disagree with you Spudski but I assume you don’t have the same FA coaches badges as LJ and his assistants have.

I respect your knowledge into the tactical side of the game but essentially you are the same as the rest of us - an amateur.

Watching the Forest match last Saturday I was frustrated by the lack of attacking flair. No player running at the defence trying to create havoc. Pedestrian play that reminded of one our previous managers. The players looked shackled and unwilling to break out and play their own game. It  left me wondering just what instructions LJ gives them............

 

They have coaching badges? It's amazing what you can get on eBay these days

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4 minutes ago, AshtonGreat said:

They have coaching badges? It's amazing what you can get on eBay these days

FA badges are required to become managers of any professional club

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14 minutes ago, pillred said:

There you have said it, football IS a simple game at heart we are just making it too complicated. Get back to the basics and we have the players to do well I'm convinced of that.

Definitely have to be getting basics right, but interested as to how you'd setup?

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1 hour ago, Cowshed said:

You posts have a exasperated theme.

Change is a feature of Lee Johnson in charge. The highlighted can be a consequence of his change. He is now changing around the foundation (its shape and intent) as well as the offense.

What are they doing in training? Too much. Systems are not imbedded over a session, its months, some think its months in the long term. 

A team is reflection of the ideas/ideals of its coach. This coach has lots of them. The (Championship) players are not equipped technically for the multiple ideas. The outcome of all this change should not be head spinning because its logical.

 

Yep..............Too be fair he has only been here 3 years, another 3, and we might get a pattern of play introduced?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by maxjak

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23 minutes ago, Robbored said:

It’s not often I disagree with you Spudski but I assume you don’t have the same FA coaches badges as LJ and his assistants have.

I respect your knowledge into the tactical side of the game but essentially you are the same as the rest of us - an amateur.

Watching the Forest match last Saturday I was frustrated by the lack of attacking flair. No player running at the defence trying to create havoc. Pedestrian play that reminded of one our previous managers. The players looked shackled and unwilling to break out and play their own game. It  left me wondering just what instructions LJ gives them............

 

You've not disagreed with me RR.

You've insinuated pretty much everything I've said.

Of course I don't have the coaching badges and experience...just basic FA badges at entry level.

However...you don't need all the experience and badges at Pro level to see with some experience what's going on.

I try to speak in layman terms and not use terminology straight out of the manuals. 

 

 

 

5 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

I am genuinely interested to know what the likes of @spudski and @Cowshed (who clearly know their stuff) would do with the team (in terms of tactics/squad selection) between now and January

When I get an hour I'll try fella.

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38 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

I feel a major part of the problem is that we still have a hangover of players who don't really fit in with how ( I think) we are seeking to play and it exposes us when we need to play them. Baker and Wright are both very solid Championship defenders but neither are comfortable on the ball and, when Kalas and Moore are missing, 3 at the back with no ball playing defender has a massive impact on our ability to control a game.

Meanwhile Diedhiou is a hard worker but I feel he works better in teams that play on the front foot rather than the counter attacking approach we seem to want to take.

And then Palmer and Eliasson are our two most creative players but neither fit the formation.

LJ has a lot of credit in the bank but I feel at the moment the way he wants us to play isn't the way that gets the best our of the players that he actually has available and that is a real problem.

Nobody wants constant chopping and changing and there has to be a consistent plan to work towards but the formation and approach has to also reflect the players we have available and, particularly at the moment, I just don't think it does. 

LJ bought these players so can't say they don't suit he wants us to play?

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Bailey, Nagy,Smith, Palmer, Eliason have had very little game time this season. Whilst agreeing that injuries have not helped .Football now involves usually 15 players in any one game, perhaps a little more consistency in team selection would help, especially in the middle of the park.

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For whats its worth, my observasion is we simply do not attack the wide areas even when there is an oportunity to do so. Its keep ball football. Square football that inevitably results in the hoof on numerous occasions. Getting behind the defence is the most effective form of attack. We simply shy away From this tactic far to often, playing safe bores me senceless.

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35 minutes ago, Robbored said:

It’s not often I disagree with you Spudski but I assume you don’t have the same FA coaches badges as LJ and his assistants have.

Anybody can get coaching badges and it doesn't mean those who've formalised a qualification are any more skilled than those who've never bothered. By your argument ex players and pundits without badges know less of the game than jobbing pros who went into management as they had time to kill when their careers stalled.

What I do know is no amount of drones, grass measuring equipment or player therapy sessions will ever compensate for a manager who thinks the future lies in players such as Watkins, CoD, Paterson or Adelakun (or all those other nomarks who came, failed and went without leaving trace.) Or thinking that prolific goal-machine Weimann in isolation, wide, up top will pose any type of threat.

Perhaps Johnson skipped the 'talent recognition' and 'offensive theory' modules.

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I understand and concur the loss of AFOBE shafted us as a threat offensively . It’s the same story. Always few attempts on goal. Even the Cardiff game we won (deep joy) did we actually look good ? No.  This season is carrying on from last season in that attacking we are not that good. We have some decent players and really solid spine, but I do not see this identity that he harps on about. It’s a constantly changing situation . I have no doubt Mark Ashton is earning his corn looking towards January 

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10 minutes ago, Red Rag said:

For whats its worth, my observasion is we simply do not attack the wide areas even when there is an oportunity to do so. Its keep ball football. Square football that inevitably results in the hoof on numerous occasions. Getting behind the defence is the most effective form of attack. We simply shy away From this tactic far to often, playing safe bores me senceless.

The wide areas is an interesting one- I'm not so sure.

Up vs a side with fairly packed and compact central area, it can take a lot of effort to get through- actually saw a stat vs Nottingham Forest that said we had over 30 crosses! It isn't necessarily so effective in the modern game but can depend of course.

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1 hour ago, spudski said:

...so frustrated with this City side this season.

I watch us play and literally have no idea as to what we are trying to achieve on the pitch.

What is the game plan?

It literally looks like 11 individuals trying to do their best, but with no idea as to go about it.

Defensively..I can see it.

Offensively... it's make it up as you go along. 

It's so frustrating to watch.

We seem to try and play every conceivable type of football during the duration of a game. And hoping something comes off. Nothing looks planned. Literally a bunch of individuals using their best attributes.

What the hell are we doing in training?

I get the injuries, and I get players have below par individual performances...but take that into account, the squad still look clueless as to what they are meant to be doing offensively.

I've not witnessed us looking so tactically inept offensively for a long time.

Frustrating...as we know we have some good players and LJ can get it right.

But right now... it's amateur.

I 100% agree. And I knew within 4 seconds last night that it was going to be crap. We kick off, ball ends up at the back with Nathan Baker and under no pressure he launches it up the pitch......to nobody. 

 

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15 minutes ago, Red 90 said:

LJ bought these players so can't say they don't suit he wants us to play?

This is true but, in fairness, it isn't unreasonable that the type of players we both can and want to attract might change over time.  Baker, Wright and Diedhiou were bought at a time when the goal was shoring up a team struggling in the Championship and looking to solidify towards mid-table. It isn't that unreasonable that the players you want and need in that situation are no longer the same players you want when you are established and looking to push on for promotion.But nonetheless you do need to factor in the type of players you are picking when it comes to team selection. 

Where I find it a lot harder to justify is the fact we've purchased Palmer and, to an extent, Szmodics without a clear plan of how to use them. I accept Palmer's season has been affected by Afobe's injury but, whilst I know strikers are hard to find, it's got to be a failure of recruitment to have a playing style and signing strategy that is based on one particular type of striker and only have one striker that suits that system. 

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In response to Foggy...I think it's a culmination of things.

Firstly...we have had long time injuries to major players. Then the usual injuries you get in a season. I can't remember a week, where we haven't had players either injured or suspended from the previous week/weeks.

Secondly...our structure is to buy young hungry players, develop them, try to keep them, or sell, then start again.

It's flawed...we will always be 2 steps forward and one step back. This season imo, it's the one step back.

Imagine if we had a fit squad, where Kalas, DaSilva, Afobe were playing regularly and we still had Webster, Bryan and Reid. That's the point we need to get to, to finish top two imo. Play offs are a lottery.

Then we have new signings, that are young and inexperienced in this league.

As well as young and imo physically immature players for this league, not just mentally.

You then have your usual individuals that perform brilliantly one game, then produce poor individual performances for games after that.

We have some squad players that are bang average. Others like Semenyo that are no where near good enough yet. Others like Szmodics and Adelukin...that you can't see ever being top 6 standard.

Injuries, players out of form, players that don't fit, new signings, young inexperienced players, physically and mentally weak players (Odowda etc), a blueprint the club want to run by that will influence signings and pathways, normal out of form performances, trying to set up to not lose games instead of trying to win them. 

All those culminate in a team that is constantly changing, constantly changing its style and looking totally confused.

We've tried so many different culminations, one week it works, then it doesn't.

So do you stick or change?

That's why my head is spinning...and I imagine it's the same for LJ. 

He's constantly trying to adapt to the situation...some brought on by himself, some outside influences.

I personally see this season as one of mid table obscurity now. 

Too many weak links to make it a successful season imo...regardless of tactics, formations etc.

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2 hours ago, spudski said:

...so frustrated with this City side this season.

I watch us play and literally have no idea as to what we are trying to achieve on the pitch.

What is the game plan?

It literally looks like 11 individuals trying to do their best, but with no idea as to go about it.

Defensively..I can see it.

Offensively... it's make it up as you go along. 

It's so frustrating to watch.

We seem to try and play every conceivable type of football during the duration of a game. And hoping something comes off. Nothing looks planned. Literally a bunch of individuals using their best attributes.

What the hell are we doing in training?

I get the injuries, and I get players have below par individual performances...but take that into account, the squad still look clueless as to what they are meant to be doing offensively.

I've not witnessed us looking so tactically inept offensively for a long time.

Frustrating...as we know we have some good players and LJ can get it right.

But right now... it's amateur.

Being a Swindon fan for 45 years I've had to put up with lots of ups and downs and hopefully things are on the change for us and we will get out of league 2'this season.

looking in from the outside I think Bristol City are in a fantastic position with an impressive stadium, decent owner, a young manager and a huge fanbase but football is not that straight forward as we all know so all I can say is just keep in there as your time will eventually come when you get into the premiership. Yes you could change Johnson but there's still no guarantees you will get promoted with somebody new  just look at Leeds & Forest etc and there weren't many complaining after last seasons cup run.

Beeing a football fan is all about patience and looking at the table your well positioned for a play off spot so just keep believing!

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2 hours ago, spudski said:

...so frustrated with this City side this season.

I watch us play and literally have no idea as to what we are trying to achieve on the pitch.

What is the game plan?

It literally looks like 11 individuals trying to do their best, but with no idea as to go about it.

Defensively..I can see it.

Offensively... it's make it up as you go along. 

It's so frustrating to watch.

We seem to try and play every conceivable type of football during the duration of a game. And hoping something comes off. Nothing looks planned. Literally a bunch of individuals using their best attributes.

What the hell are we doing in training?

I get the injuries, and I get players have below par individual performances...but take that into account, the squad still look clueless as to what they are meant to be doing offensively.

I've not witnessed us looking so tactically inept offensively for a long time.

Frustrating...as we know we have some good players and LJ can get it right.

But right now... it's amateur.

He admitted in the past to over complicating tactics and it looks like he’s doing it again, playing real life edition of football manager with his new training ground big tv. I think having players back from injury doesn’t help him strangely . Just keep it simple, players prefer simple instruction and they look confused.  

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13 minutes ago, spudski said:

In response to Foggy...I think it's a culmination of things.

Firstly...we have had long time injuries to major players. Then the usual injuries you get in a season. I can't remember a week, where we haven't had players either injured or suspended from the previous week/weeks.

Secondly...our structure is to buy young hungry players, develop them, try to keep them, or sell, then start again.

It's flawed...we will always be 2 steps forward and one step back. This season imo, it's the one step back.

Imagine if we had a fit squad, where Kalas, DaSilva, Afobe were playing regularly and we still had Webster, Bryan and Reid. That's the point we need to get to, to finish top two imo. Play offs are a lottery.

Then we have new signings, that are young and inexperienced in this league.

As well as young and imo physically immature players for this league, not just mentally.

You then have your usual individuals that perform brilliantly one game, then produce poor individual performances for games after that.

We have some squad players that are bang average. Others like Semenyo that are no where near good enough yet. Others like Szmodics and Adelukin...that you can't see ever being top 6 standard.

Injuries, players out of form, players that don't fit, new signings, young inexperienced players, physically and mentally weak players (Odowda etc), a blueprint the club want to run by that will influence signings and pathways, normal out of form performances, trying to set up to not lose games instead of trying to win them. 

All those culminate in a team that is constantly changing, constantly changing its style and looking totally confused.

We've tried so many different culminations, one week it works, then it doesn't.

So do you stick or change?

That's why my head is spinning...and I imagine it's the same for LJ. 

He's constantly trying to adapt to the situation...some brought on by himself, some outside influences.

I personally see this season as one of mid table obscurity now. 

Too many weak links to make it a successful season imo...regardless of tactics, formations etc.

If it was a season of building yet still pushing at the top 6, then that's one I could accept what with the injuries etc- but that would feel like a big step back.

Agree with a lot of your post btw, changing style, formation and team- injuries notwithstanding- certainly doesn't help! Some of it unavoidable though.

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1 hour ago, phantom said:

But we replaced them we just as good players, if not better

Apart from Afobe we haven't had a decent number 9 striker for years - the thing that concerns me we have said the same thing going into the January transfer window for many a year now 

That's subjective though, I personally would have Webster, Kelly, Pack, & Reid in our starting X1 at the moment. 

But I understand how trading works, maybe the last two summer windows are catching up with us a bit.

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1 hour ago, Cowshed said:

I will give it a brief go.

In theory players won't play 100% through any conditions. Humans are not wired like that. Working towards that is the dream where the tactical, technical, physical and psychological all work in unison. The very best are still flawed - Think about the stars at the zenith of the game.   

Sports science and sports psychology leans towards frequently to not address things after a match, its too raw for lots of reflection. The post match starts today.

Techniques like 80/20 can be used.  Address 20% of the negatives, not 80%. Remember to focus on the positives that did exist. This is proven to be more effective. Common sense really v its was all crap, you, you and even the ref was crap. 

In regards to your second paragraph. These are uncontrollables. A lot of work is done with pros to focus on what they can control. Becoming emotional with what you do not control obviously affects performance. We know we will have automatic negative thoughts (ants) by focussing on what we can control v what we cannot those ants can be governed. Players can use self talk to control emotion, they can be assisted to do so -  City do use psychologists to assist and support players, and the Manager/Coaches. 

In Lee talk we go again.

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks, I think I understand that.

I just wonder sometimes if the players momentarily lose their focus, (as anyone does), after an apparent injustice?

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We seem to have a new direction every summer.
 

First summer keep the core of the L1 side together and be frugal. Not a LJ summer

Second summer, first under LJ. Go all in on youth. Signed 5-6 under 22 year olds to develop. Half working out half not but fair enough if that is the direction. 
 

Third summer, trying to find the right blend of youth and experience. Mix of domestic and abroad. 
 

Fourth summer, all proven english leagues players mostly in mid 20s so hoping for proven players in prime or about to be. 
 

This past summer, back to a blend of youth and experience and domestic and abroad. 
 

Doesn’t seem like we have ever gotten the recruitment mix right. Feels stretched.

Are we going to eye mid 20 year old bargains from England like Weimann and Hunt?

Are we going to focus on youth from England like Brownhill, COD, Walsh, Adelakun and Szmodics? 

Are we going to shop abroad for high calibre players for value like Fam, Nagy, and Magnússon? 
 

Are we going to see if we can pluck some wonderkids from European academies like Massengo and Periera? 
 

Feels like we are stretching too far. Pick 2 of those and stick with it. Make them your speciality. Brentford shop for exclusively young but high calibre in England and across Europe. Preston are almost exclusively young and domestic. 
 

LJs tactics have been boring but how much say does he get on incomings? Is he chopping and changing what he wants in a recruit as much as he does what he wants on the pitch? Feels like everything is a scattergun approach and I am 100% sure if we stuck with a tactic and starting XI for 10 games in a row we would find a rhythm and be a top 6 side. Then if we stuck with a recruitment plan for 5-6 windows we would increasingly get better. As long as LJ has been here it feels like we are starting over from what we had in may to what we have in August and outgoing sales imo only affect that a small amount

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23 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

I am genuinely interested to know what the likes of @spudski and @Cowshed (who clearly know their stuff) would do with the team (in terms of tactics/squad selection) between now and January

On the spot here we go … Sort of.

Last season I posted about a 4-4-1-1 and individual team selection. Its not what I liked but it was pragmatic. It was consistent. Boring but it defined elements of play - Defending, shape and crossing = Intent and approach.

This season? 

Its self reflection time. As a coach look at yourself rather than the individuals. Is this my football beyond the metric of points really working? Is the team performing close to efficiency? 

If the answer is no break it down.

The game is five elements. How are these elements (defense, offense, transitions ..) performing? Self reflect again is what I am attempting pragmatic across these elements? Do the players skill sets meet the team need as defined by myself? 

Between now and January I would focus consistently on playing principles across those elements. In possession starting at the Keeper and back ? How do we move the ball forward? Midfield are we looking to keep it or penetrate quickly? Forwards .. Feet or no? Principle are we possession based or not? 

Here I would look to establish a base to improve upon. I would look to establish the teams architects. The players who will define it. Last season I highlighted Famara .. He plays each week and we work with that or he goes.

You have not got tactics/squad selection there. Its more simplistic - Less complexity and change.  

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1 hour ago, spudski said:

You've not disagreed with me RR.

You've insinuated pretty much everything I've said.

Of course I don't have the coaching badges and experience...just basic FA badges at entry level.

However...you don't need all the experience and badges at Pro level to see with some experience what's going on.

I try to speak in layman terms and not use terminology straight out of the manuals. 

 

 

 

When I get an hour I'll try fella.

& for that I thank you. Cause that really does get on my nerves. Like a lot of things in football currently, over complicating things. COYR 

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7 minutes ago, Midred said:

Thanks, I think I understand that.

I just wonder sometimes if the players momentarily lose their focus, (as anyone does), after an apparent injustice?

Yes they do. Some carry it around with them for the rest of the game. This can be wholly negative. But some again can reframe that injustice, put it into perspective by themselves, and some players can be educated to do so.

There is a psychological exercise called Bamming ( Body Active Move). This relates to the response directly after an event. Body = Head up and scan pitch. Active = Up on toes . Move = Get well moving.  A method for some. Useless for others ... We are all different.  

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40 minutes ago, Shaun Taylor said:

Being a Swindon fan for 45 years I've had to put up with lots of ups and downs and hopefully things are on the change for us and we will get out of league 2'this season.

looking in from the outside I think Bristol City are in a fantastic position with an impressive stadium, decent owner, a young manager and a huge fanbase but football is not that straight forward as we all know so all I can say is just keep in there as your time will eventually come when you get into the premiership. Yes you could change Johnson but there's still no guarantees you will get promoted with somebody new  just look at Leeds & Forest etc and there weren't many complaining after last seasons cup run.

Beeing a football fan is all about patience and looking at the table your well positioned for a play off spot so just keep believing!

Cheers for this. I think part of the problem with football is everything always feels either wonderful or terrible and it is hard to get perspective.

I think the reality is that Lee Johnson is a flawed manager who makes mistakes with selections and tactics but that he is also a very capable manager who is committed to the club, wants to get things right and, all in all, has undoubtedly improved us as both a club and a team.

There is a lot frustrating me at the moment, and the football is not a lot of fun to watch right now, but I think we have far more to lose than to gain by overreacting. There is no manager who is guaranteed to bring success to a club and any manager who doesn't make mistakes is unlikely to be managing in the Championship. I really want LJ to learn and our football to improve but I do appreciate all that Johnson has done and am glad he is at the helm. 

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47 minutes ago, Shaun Taylor said:

Being a Swindon fan for 45 years I've had to put up with lots of ups and downs and hopefully things are on the change for us and we will get out of league 2'this season.

looking in from the outside I think Bristol City are in a fantastic position with an impressive stadium, decent owner, a young manager and a huge fanbase but football is not that straight forward as we all know so all I can say is just keep in there as your time will eventually come when you get into the premiership. Yes you could change Johnson but there's still no guarantees you will get promoted with somebody new  just look at Leeds & Forest etc and there weren't many complaining after last seasons cup run.

Beeing a football fan is all about patience and looking at the table your well positioned for a play off spot so just keep believing!

I know you mean well but patience, I don't know whether to laugh or cry.

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I suppose if last night proved anything it's that having an uber-defensive formation to try to stop top clubs from scoring doesn't work.

The best way to keep the pressure off your goal is to keep the ball up the other end. For too much of the game we had no real way to get it up there. That is Lee's challenge. A formation that will carry the ball forward and keep it there for more than a couple of minutes.

I know it sounds simplistic, but that is the crux of the matter.

If we'd peppered their goal, but still lost, I'd be unconcerned.

But to have consecutive matches with hardly any real chances is deeply worrying.

Luckily for the club, I'm unable to go to the Huddersfield game - which usually means they'll pull out their performance of the season! :laugh:

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3 hours ago, spudski said:

...so frustrated with this City side this season.

I watch us play and literally have no idea as to what we are trying to achieve on the pitch.

What is the game plan?

It literally looks like 11 individuals trying to do their best, but with no idea as to go about it.

Defensively..I can see it.

Offensively... it's make it up as you go along. 

It's so frustrating to watch.

We seem to try and play every conceivable type of football during the duration of a game. And hoping something comes off. Nothing looks planned. Literally a bunch of individuals using their best attributes.

What the hell are we doing in training?

I get the injuries, and I get players have below par individual performances...but take that into account, the squad still look clueless as to what they are meant to be doing offensively.

I've not witnessed us looking so tactically inept offensively for a long time.

Frustrating...as we know we have some good players and LJ can get it right.

But right now... it's amateur.

The problem seems to be that we don't adopt the correct tactic/formation to suit the players we have available.

For instance if you have Moore, Kallas, Williams, Dasilva and Hunt available then you can play three at the back with wing backs. If any of those players are not available that option looks less advised.

If we our full back options are not Dasilva and Hunt then they really shouldn't be operating with wing backs.

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I've always thought Johnson thinks he's a junior Pep and tries to be clever trying to nullify the opposition instead of playing to our strengths. In nearly every game we only come alive after making 2-3 subs and overloading the box. 

It looks like the players haven't a clue what's the plan at kick off 

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2 hours ago, Pezo said:

Too much change over the last couple years maybe? We have almost a completely different side to the one that beat Man U. Still not sure it's a good enough excuse. 

this is a good point.

i'm also not convinced that there is any real strategy in recruitment beyond buying youngsters who's value increase.  when people bemoan about our lack of coherent game plan and identity etc, Johnson probably doesnt have a squad of players brought together to play a specific style or brand of football making it difficult to do so on a regular basis. I think his prefered style of play would be a high pressing game as he used to preach but certainly doesnt have a squad of players assembled that can do so. maybe that is down to the manager maybe it isnt, maybe i'm completely wrong

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7 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

I suppose if last night proved anything it's that having an uber-defensive formation to try to stop top clubs from scoring doesn't work.

The best way to keep the pressure off your goal is to keep the ball up the other end. For too much of the game we had no real way to get it up there. That is Lee's challenge. A formation that will carry the ball forward and keep it there for more than a couple of minutes.

I know it sounds simplistic, but that is the crux of the matter.

If we'd peppered their goal, but still lost, I'd be unconcerned.

But to have consecutive matches with hardly any real chances is deeply worrying.

Luckily for the club, I'm unable to go to the Huddersfield game - which usually means they'll pull out their performance of the season! :laugh:

Be heard big Sam say the same thing about keeping the ball as far away from your goal as possible and you won't concede. Another thing he said is that it will be interesting to see the stats at the end of the season as to how many goals are scored from playing out from the back and how many conceded from mistakes doing it. I know it's all the fashion to play from the back but most teams don't have the players to 

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40 minutes ago, paul_fox said:

Be heard big Sam say the same thing about keeping the ball as far away from your goal as possible and you won't concede. Another thing he said is that it will be interesting to see the stats at the end of the season as to how many goals are scored from playing out from the back and how many conceded from mistakes doing it. I know it's all the fashion to play from the back but most teams don't have the players to 

indeed.

the most infuriating thing is when the goal keeper plays it out and we mess around with it in defense almost conceding possession several times, play it back to the goal keeper because we've run out of options, then the goal keeper lumps it forward straight to an opposing centre back with them pressed further up the field. happens all too often.  

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LJ was at a Senior Reds dinner not long ago and was asked a question about our "identity". His answer lasted for at least 5 minutes and he left the audience even more confused than they were before. If they couldn't understand the plan, maybe the players cant either.

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We need to find a style of play, a formation, and stick to it. Get in players right for it. 

Right now, in the words of Gary, we have a lot of clubs in the bag. The issue is we don't know what course we are playing. 

The defense just about makes sense. But not fully sure on the job of the full backs.

Midfield, what are we doing with them? 1 attacking, 1 defensive? 2 defensive? 3 flat?

How are we creating chances? Well really we aren't. 

 

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