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MC RISK77

Nagy and Massengo

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I remember during a certain period (post our top flight adventure) being told by the club that our “most promising youngsters” were guys like Nigel Hawkins and Jason Eaton ... absolutely no disrespect intended towards them, they represented Bristol City FC so were obviously good players, but when you think they were both a year or so older than Massengo you realise we have an exceptionally fine player on our hands ...

Edited by BS4 on Tour...
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4 hours ago, spudski said:

Allowed Josh to play freely and more offensive, which allowed Weimann to play in more dangerous positions.

Eliasson did well, but still lacked in defensive areas, but were covered by Nagy and Massengo, which negated Eliassons weaknesses.

My only criticism from today was that I thought Fam was very average and we took our foot off the pedal. 

Imo if we had kept on the gas and worked just as hard throughout, we could have done a Brentford. Which would have done our GD a world of good.

I wonder how well all our other attacking players would have played had Fam not been on the pitch. It will be interesting to see what that side would look like with Weimann up top and no Fam. It may be we miss his ability to win headers, and ability to hold it up and occupy the opposing centre backs.

I gave Fam an 8 out of 10 today. Thought he was such a problem for their defence. His hold up play is something no one else can do. Potentially Semenyo with his strength, maybe Watkins can to a certain extent. But neither got what Fam has at this moment in time.

I will have to watch the game back, but it seemed like he was mainly staying in centre of the pitch, which is where I want to see him. His movement is not the best, but for how big he is, it isn't bad. He isn't lazy as we have seen him often knackered with 20 minutes to go because of all the hard work he gets through. 

Realistically I would have Afobe in front of him if he comes back the same player. But last 3 appearances Fam has improved hugely imo.

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Just now, JonDolman said:

I wonder how well all our other attacking players would have played had Fam not been on the pitch.

He had a v.good game today imho

It will be interesting to see what that side would look like with Weimann up top and no Fam.

Different!!

It may be we miss his ability to win headers, and ability to hold it up and occupy the opposing centre backs.

But it’s a team game.  I’ve says before that sometimes there are other unnoticed little cogs helping the big cog work.  You cannot look at Fam’s performance in isolation.  What about the things other players did to make him play well (Johnson often talks about players who make others play better.  At times Weimann pulling into pockets (rather than his usual running on the shoulder) meant the 2xCBs were unsure whether to double up on Fam or one pick up Weimann, but leave Fam 1on1, meaning they marked on the “safe side” in case he rolled them.  He did hold it up well.

I gave Fam an 8 out of 10 today.

Me too.

Thought he was such a problem for their defence.

He was, no argument from me, but partly due to a cohesive team performance for 60-65 mins (we then coasted).

His hold up play is something no one else can do. Potentially Semenyo with his strength, maybe Watkins can to a certain extent. But neither got what Fam has at this moment in time.

I will have to watch the game back, but it seemed like he was mainly staying in centre of the pitch, which is where I want to see him.

Here you go, that bright blue bit was noticeable, on one occasion, Baker fizzed a ball into him, his touch was spot on, and another attack was formed.  That quicker pass from Baker was a feature today from several players.

F4DE198F-EA7D-4786-85A4-20F13BDDDD13.thumb.jpeg.a2c743d23657690e0cb50a7282726314.jpeg

His movement is not the best, but for how big he is, it isn't bad. He isn't lazy as we have seen him often knackered with 20 minutes to go because of all the hard work he gets through.

There were two situations today when Fam went flat-out for a ball, it was great to see.  We don’t see that enough.

Realistically I would have Afobe in front of him if he comes back the same player. But last 3 appearances Fam has improved hugely imo.

it’s like he’s been given a kick up the backside, even Charlton he was good, just got carried away!  I said in the week that if he continues to play at this level, he’s a handful, beyond his pretty decent goals record.

 

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7 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

 

I think today it helped massively having Eliasson and Brownhill in wide areas and switching with Weimann.

Eliasson and Brownhill being imo our 2 best attacking players, Weimann being such a good team player to compliment them.

Fam being the one that occupies the centre backs. The blend worked so well. And really looked great when Nagy or Massengo joined in our attacks. 

I guess LJ mainly sticks with this 4231 (or whatever we want to call it) from now on. I actually thought Weimann seemed to look more effective when deeper and pressing the midfield rather than the centre backs. Maybe something we see more of.

So in this system when Fam is unavailable, or rested, who plays instead I wonder. It will be something LJ will need to work out I am sure with so many games up to when we can possibly bring in another forward.

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It's a strange thing but almost by default LJ has arrived at his best midfield combination and that is Natch and Massengo in the middle and Brownhill out wide.

As good a player as Brownhill undoubtedly is our Hungarian cider maestro and French wonderkid are a level above and barring fatigue should be the way forward from now on.

I know they tired today but they will only get better and with Korey gradually getting match fit we should expect to see a marked improvement in the middle.

I actually think we get the best out of Josh in that position.

Long may it continue.

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6 hours ago, MC RISK77 said:

Only first start together and while it can be argued we won the game on the flanks, we wouldn’t have had as many opportunities to get the ball into the box if it wasn’t for these two breaking up play with the energy they had.

josh looked very comfortable on the right so hopefully we can see more of the pairing in the middle.

elliason was superb as well.

Well said that man. I mentioned on RB that Nagy and Massengo were like a tag team, wrestling the ball from Huddersfield to create the space for Eliasson and Brownhill to power through. Here's to a very happy NagMass.

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7 hours ago, spudski said:

Both need to start as many games together as possible imo.

Gave us confidence when going forward, which made all the difference.

Play Massengo every game...no need to rest. He won't be here next season imo.

Sadly Spud, I think you are correct.

The upside will be £40m+

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1 hour ago, Davefevs said:
1 hour ago, JonDolman said:

it’s like he’s been given a kick up the backside, even Charlton he was good, just got carried away!  I said in the week that if he continues to play at this level, he’s a handful, beyond his pretty decent goals record.

 

I'm really not sure we can understate how good it is for him to be back involved with Senegal, and playing and scoring for them. From his social feeds it looks like it genuinely means a lot to him. 

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So how do we fit them all in? Whilst also addressing our leaky defence. 

I see HNM and JB as more box-to-box than Ngy, who excels when he's sitting in front of defence breaking stuff up and spreading play. So how about the following?

                               DB

          AW               TM               TK

PP                        Nagy                        JD

           Brownhill              Massengo

                   AW                    FD

I think that would give us tremendous fluidity up front, whilst still having width with the wingbacks. Plus Brownhill can drift wide. (I realize that this leaves out Eliasson - as I say, how do we fit them all in?!)

Did England play this sort of 3-3-2-2 at the last World Cup?

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8 hours ago, JoeAman08 said:

His awareness is unreal. His ability to break a press with a body feint or dummy is ridiculous. 
 

Nagy gets a mention too because it seems like his touches in tight space gets him 2-3 yards of space somehow. Has the ability to know where to guide the ball on the touch and today no one got close to him. 

What I like about Nagy is his pass and move , he doesn’t just admire his work but presents himself for the return ball. 
 

We have , equally, now two small midfielders who know how to draw fouls . Our game management has stepped up a level.

 

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2 hours ago, City Ben said:

So how do we fit them all in? Whilst also addressing our leaky defence. 

I see HNM and JB as more box-to-box than Ngy, who excels when he's sitting in front of defence breaking stuff up and spreading play. So how about the following?

                               DB

          AW               TM               TK

PP                        Nagy                        JD

           Brownhill              Massengo

                   AW                    FD

I think that would give us tremendous fluidity up front, whilst still having width with the wingbacks. Plus Brownhill can drift wide. (I realize that this leaves out Eliasson - as I say, how do we fit them all in?!)

Did England play this sort of 3-3-2-2 at the last World Cup?

Yes England did. I personally don't like the formation. I guess Jay Dasilva may add a lot more to it, but for me we end up with 5 at the back too often.

It is a counter attacking system, from what I have seen of any team using it successfully.

England used it and lost against every difficult opponent they came up against - Belgium twice and Croatia. It was not really a success for them as surely any formation should beat teams like Panama.

For me we have to stick with a 4231 kind of system from now on. We have to play Eliasson, as he's one of our best players.

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I expect Korey to be rotated a bit with Nagy and Massengo. Brownhill can stay wide right, and be moved centrally if needed.

It will be interesting to see what happens when Morrell and Walsh return. Both doing very well in league one. 

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5 hours ago, City Ben said:

So how do we fit them all in? Whilst also addressing our leaky defence. 

I see HNM and JB as more box-to-box than Ngy, who excels when he's sitting in front of defence breaking stuff up and spreading play. So how about the following?

                               DB

          AW               TM               TK

PP                        Nagy                        JD

           Brownhill              Massengo

                   AW                    FD

I think that would give us tremendous fluidity up front, whilst still having width with the wingbacks. Plus Brownhill can drift wide. (I realize that this leaves out Eliasson - as I say, how do we fit them all in?!)

Did England play this sort of 3-3-2-2 at the last World Cup?

Jack Hunt over Pereira. 
 

Edited by RedorDead BCFC
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6 minutes ago, RedorDead BCFC said:

Jack Hunt over Pereira. 
 

That is going to be a dilemma for a lot of us I think. I`m a massive Pereira fan so would have him in every time but Jack`s performance yesterday was out of this world. I think it might come down to whether we think we`ll be defending a lot or not - Pedro is the better defender but Jack much better going forward.

Nice problem to have though.

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10 hours ago, Swede said:

It's a strange thing but almost by default LJ has arrived at his best midfield combination and that is Natch and Massengo in the middle and Brownhill out wide.

As good a player as Brownhill undoubtedly is our Hungarian cider maestro and French wonderkid are a level above and barring fatigue should be the way forward from now on.

I know they tired today but they will only get better and with Korey gradually getting match fit we should expect to see a marked improvement in the middle.

I actually think we get the best out of Josh in that position.

Long may it continue.

For me Brownhill is every bit as good as HNM and Nagy centrally but having him on the right hand side makes the team better and provides a real balance to our play that nobody else can provide.

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5 minutes ago, Dolman_Stand said:

For me Brownhill is every bit as good as HNM and Nagy centrally but having him on the right hand side makes the team better and provides a real balance to our play that nobody else can provide.

No he isn't, he gives the ball away too cheaply at times and that can lead to goals when he is in defensive CM, e.g. WBA first goal. 

Nagy & Massengo should be automatic picks in CM, with Josh on RHS and Korey on the bench available to replace anybody tiring.

 

3 hours ago, JonDolman said:

I expect Korey to be rotated a bit with Nagy and Massengo. Brownhill can stay wide right, and be moved centrally if needed.

It will be interesting to see what happens when Morrell and Walsh return. Both doing very well in league one. 

No way should Korey be starting over any of those 3.

 

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2 minutes ago, old_eastender said:

No he isn't, he gives the ball away too cheaply at times and that can lead to goals when he is in defensive CM, e.g. WBA first goal. 

Nagy & Massengo should be automatic picks in CM, with Josh on RHS and Korey on the bench available to replace anybody tiring.

 

No way should Korey be starting over any of those 3.

 

We will have to agree to disagree on this , all three have strengths and weaknesses but agree that the three of them should all be starting for the time being.

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12 hours ago, JoeAman08 said:

His awareness is unreal. His ability to break a press with a body feint or dummy is ridiculous. 
 

Nagy gets a mention too because it seems like his touches in tight space gets him 2-3 yards of space somehow. Has the ability to know where to guide the ball on the touch and today no one got close to him. 

They both have to start every week if fit.

I agree that Han Noah will be gone in the summer if we don’t go up and that could be the case with Nagy too.

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1 hour ago, Lanterne Rouge said:

That is going to be a dilemma for a lot of us I think. I`m a massive Pereira fan so would have him in every time but Jack`s performance yesterday was out of this world. I think it might come down to whether we think we`ll be defending a lot or not - Pedro is the better defender but Jack much better going forward.

Nice problem to have though.

The modern full back has the most demanding role in the team with the ground they’re expected to cover .

 I don’t think rotating the two of them would cause too many problems to either player or team.

 I agree that Hunt was excellent yesterday. He has often been at that level when not coming back after an injury.

You will find many posters , who don’t understand the game , writing off the guy on OTIB .

 

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I think the thing about reading this thread shows how much potential this squad has. We can rotate and rest players without weakening the side. There were no weak links yesterday although that wasn't what many would call our  first choice eleven. I think its imperative we keep Naggy and Massengo next term whether we go up or not. They would be irreplaceable even with 40 mil in the bank. The squad is getting stronger and we need to tweek it if necessary in the future, not rebuild again. Great times ahead if we build around our best players not sale them.

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2 hours ago, marmite said:

I think the thing about reading this thread shows how much potential this squad has. We can rotate and rest players without weakening the side. There were no weak links yesterday although that wasn't what many would call our  first choice eleven. I think its imperative we keep Naggy and Massengo next term whether we go up or not. They would be irreplaceable even with 40 mil in the bank. The squad is getting stronger and we need to tweek it if necessary in the future, not rebuild again. Great times ahead if we build around our best players not sale them.

Firstly, injuries haven’t helped, but I wonder yesterday whether a 4231 was LJ going back to his intended system pre-season.  There is enough flexibility in that system to accommodate all of our players.

The 532 excluded Eliason, the 442 excluded Kasey.

I don’t think there’s anyone in our squad per se that couldn’t find a place in 4231, even if it morphs Into 433/4141 throughout the course of a game.  Even some of those on the fringes at the mo’.

Easier to recruit to also.

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Good thread! It seems to me that we have to find away of having nagy Massengo brownhill and eliasson all playing, weimann in most situations is going to play, and at this point Diédhiou is the focal point. 

With hopefully kalas and dasilva to come back, thats a pretty strong championship spine.... there maybe times when the west brom performance happens, but generally we are hard to beat.

assuming dasilva comes in and is quickly on top of his game then in my view while diedhou and weimann are good championship players, then they could be improved upon in theory. And the same applies to the right back position.... perrera looks strong defensively which isnt really hunts strong point,,, perhaps a real top end right back could be an upgrade on both?

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2 hours ago, maxjak said:

Nagy and Massengo............The New American Cop Show coming soon on HBO TV!! 😂

Adam`s the dour eastern European cop who`s been teamed up with a flamboyant Frenchman and called in to solve a case involving a missing midfield in a west country city when the local force are stumped?

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16 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Feast yourself:

 

 

That was beautiful! What a pair of players we have here. It`s just so slick and they are so on each other`s wavelength. I`m glad it showed the incident where Adam went down on the edge of the box and still managed to get a pass away from lying on the floor. That one had me out of my seat at the time.

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2 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Feast yourself:

 

 

Both are very intelligent players and the simplicity of their play hides their technical attributes.

The way both have their body positioned in exactly the right way to receive a pass gives them so much space to get their own pass away or move away from the opponent. 

 

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2 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Feast yourself:

 

 

After months of impatiently waiting for Korey’s return, how on Earth does he get in the team now he’s fit?

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6 minutes ago, TammyAB said:

After months of impatiently waiting for Korey’s return, how on Earth does he get in the team now he’s fit?

He shouldn't.

But he will.

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5 minutes ago, TammyAB said:

After months of impatiently waiting for Korey’s return, how on Earth does he get in the team now he’s fit?

He needs to force his way in, take his chance when injury, suspension, rest / rotation occurs.  Happy to see him get 15, 20, 25 minutes over the coming games to build up his sharpness.  There is no rush.

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8 hours ago, TammyAB said:

After months of impatiently waiting for Korey’s return, how on Earth does he get in the team now he’s fit?

Playing with these two should bring the best out of him. Survival of the fittest. 

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On 01/12/2019 at 10:47, old_eastender said:

No he isn't, he gives the ball away too cheaply at times and that can lead to goals when he is in defensive CM, e.g. WBA first goal. 

Nagy & Massengo should be automatic picks in CM, with Josh on RHS and Korey on the bench available to replace anybody tiring.

 

 

I'm with @Dolman_Stand on this. Brownhill is currently a better player than HNM is, that is undeniable when you look at impact this season. HNM was giving the ball away 3-4 times a game in the matches before he was dropped, in much more dangerous areas too. Plus add into the equation that Brownhill offers more tackles and interceptions in the middle and has goals in his game.

Obviously as he is young he has gone away and worked on something with the coaches and taken it on like a duck to water, now it is great that he has done that and we can fit all three players in. 

Brownhill is currently a better player, but HNM has an immeasurably higher ceiling than Brownhill, and will undoubtably be the best player the club has likely ever seen with his current trajectory. 

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