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cidercity1987

What is wrong with our defence?

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Great names on paper, Rowe seemingly filling in admirably for Dasilva, a potential player of the season GK and some solid defensive CMs in the team.

But highest goals conceded in the top 15 some by a long way almost 3 x Leeds and 2 x Brentford/Forest.

We don't play an open game imo so what's the problem? Doesn't make sense.

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When you factor in that Bentley has been our player of the season then the reading isn’t too good, especially when you consider that we haven’t exactly sacrificed swashbuckling attacking football for defence. 
 

We’ve got good players. It should be better than this. 

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I think if we play Nagy and Massengo regularly with Smith as back up, we will see it improve. I don’t think there was much we could do about the two yesterday, but there were other times when we defended better than we have for a while.

I also thought it was noticeable how Taylor Moore’s extra pace helped in the last 20.

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Dasilva out all of the season.

Kalas out most of the season.

Moore, Hunt and Periera out for large parts of the season.

We've been without our first choice defence for large parts of the season and because of this above LJ has been forced to play various combinations, including a 3 man central defence, and playing Tommy Rowe out of position ( no blame on him as he's done well). In addition we've been without Nagy for much of the season, and his position, sitting in front of the defence, makes a big difference. In hindsight signing Williams was an inspired move or things would probably have been even worse.

Had we been able to play a back 4 of Hunt/Periera Kalas  Moore  Dasilva ( or include Williams) all season and with Nagy in midfield,  it would have made a huge difference.

Having said that I also think our defensive problems have been exacerbated by some of the midfield selections and performances.

 

 

 

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11 minutes ago, cidercity1987 said:

Great names on paper, Rowe seemingly filling in admirably for Dasilva, a potential player of the season GK and some solid defensive CMs in the team.

But highest goals conceded in the top 15 some by a long way almost 3 x Leeds and 2 x Brentford/Forest.

We don't play an open game imo so what's the problem? Doesn't make sense.

Currently considerably more leaky/worse than the much derided Flint, Wright and Magnússon and the non-tracking back Joe Bryan (and the covering midfield of Pack and co) and Frankie too, of 2017/18 after the same number of games (19).

Yes, they went to pieces after Christmas but only after a long cup run, and a dismal/disastrous/disruptive January transfer window.

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21 minutes ago, Abingdon Red said:

Kallas and Moore being out injured hasn't helped, they would be our first choice centre backs

I don't think so, Williams is a better player than Moore at this point.

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Hilarious isn't it! We have all been saying we're not good enough up front and the problem might be in defence, that weak defence could be sucking in the midfield which leaves the strikers unsupported. It could be that the midfield aren't good enough in supporting both areas of the pitch. 

Who knows? 

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Hey remember when LJ said he wanted 5 signings and we only got 4.

The one we didn't get was a central defender.

Street free agent Ashley Williams has done great for a pick up.

We need the Webster type as much as we need an Afobe up front.

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Our most used centre back wad signed on a free after the transfer deadline due to injury. I think we could have done better defensively, but I also think we need a bit of perspective

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For me it comes down to the fact we don't defend from the front. 

We aren't as attacking as we can be, we don't make as many chances anymore. So we are constantly on the back foot. 

Yesterday was the opposite and that's what we should do more of. 

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The rolling injuries in defence. 

As others have said,  lack of Nagy in front. This hasn't helped. Some of the midfield selections in general also,  but again see point 1 except change defence for midfield.

Switching between back three and back four possibly isn't ideal- granted some of that comes back to the aforementioned rolling injuries! 

A fairly settled defence, midfield and structure in general- plus Navy in front- should see things improve, in due course. That fairly settled structure will help to provide the platform higher up- throw in the attributes we have higher up the pitch,  and this will ease pressure on the defence. Will all add up to better performances defensively!

Selling Webster quite late too,  probably didn't help either- though too good to turn down.

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1 hour ago, Moments of Pleasure said:

Currently considerably more leaky/worse than the much derided Flint, Wright and Magnússon and the non-tracking back Joe Bryan (and the covering midfield of Pack and co) and Frankie too, of 2017/18 after the same number of games (19).

Yes, they went to pieces after Christmas but only after a long cup run, and a dismal/disastrous/disruptive January transfer window.

That was pretty well our first choice defence. Our current first choice defensive line has collectively spent most of this season in the treatment room.

As I mentioned in a previous post, LJ's midfield selections/tinkering have made a big difference to our defensive strength ( or lack thereof)  and Nagy's absence through injury has definitely weakened us.

 

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2 hours ago, bcfcredandwhite said:

I too have been concerned about our habit of conceding. If we are not careful our goal difference could be our undoing. 

Brentford are snapping at our heels with a GD of +15 compared to our measely +4

 

0B139DF4-E9CB-4D3A-A508-40EBDAFB9F8E.jpeg

Well they did just manage to improve that by +7 thanks to Luton...

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Kalas and Moore being injured, chopping and changing selections, and playing three at the back.  Three at the back usually makes a striker's job easier as they can take advantage of the confusion.

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Defence starts from the front line.

Many times this season we have lost possession whilst on the offensive through sloppy passing, mis control, or individual errors.

It puts us on the back foot and open to counter attack.

We try to close down and get back into defensive shape. Unfortunately in doing so we often fail to close down quick enough. We are prone to allowing shots at goal from outside the box and allowing teams to create chances on goal.

Bentley has done superb this year, we could have found ourselves in a far worse position if it wasn't for him.

We are also susceptible at set pieces. More concerned about sticking with their man, instead of being aware of the danger area and attacking the ball. 

We allow nearly 16 shots at goal a game, compared to us creating only 11 a game.

 

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4 hours ago, Coxy27 said:

I don't think so, Williams is a better player than Moore at this point.

Not sure I agree as Williams is an old fashion blocker of a centre half whereas Moore is a modern bring it out of defence centre back. Both have many pluses. 

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6 hours ago, cidercity1987 said:

Great names on paper, Rowe seemingly filling in admirably for Dasilva, a potential player of the season GK and some solid defensive CMs in the team.

But highest goals conceded in the top 15 some by a long way almost 3 x Leeds and 2 x Brentford/Forest.

We don't play an open game imo so what's the problem? Doesn't make sense.

If you cast your mind back to last seasons 4-4-1-1 City are playing an open game. The team is not as compact in and out of possession. The team does not control space as efficiently. The team is also giving up more possession. Its logical that the opponents are creating and scoring more.

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4 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

The rolling injuries in defence. 

As others have said,  lack of Nagy in front. This hasn't helped. Some of the midfield selections in general also,  but again see point 1 except change defence for midfield.

Switching between back three and back four possibly isn't ideal- granted some of that comes back to the aforementioned rolling injuries! 

A fairly settled defence, midfield and structure in general- plus Navy in front- should see things improve, in due course. That fairly settled structure will help to provide the platform higher up- throw in the attributes we have higher up the pitch,  and this will ease pressure on the defence. Will all add up to better performances defensively!

Selling Webster quite late too,  probably didn't help either- though too good to turn down.

Makes pretty good sense to me,,, rowe has come in and done well, but its pretty clear dasilva would have been first choice... the continued injuries have been a pain, if we had williams kalas and dasilva fit for every game this season, along with enough fit midfielders to rotate a bit, then it would have made a huge difference 

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6 hours ago, Moments of Pleasure said:

Currently considerably more leaky/worse than the much derided Flint, Wright and Magnússon and the non-tracking back Joe Bryan (and the covering midfield of Pack and co) and Frankie too, of 2017/18 after the same number of games (19).

Yes, they went to pieces after Christmas but only after a long cup run, and a dismal/disastrous/disruptive January transfer window.

I'd much rather have our goalkeeper and defenders of now than the ones in 17/18. Two of those from then that we still have would not get in our a fully fit team now - Wright and Baker. Shows how much better we are in that position now.

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Nice how many think that Taylor Moore is one of our best players. It was only July when 90% on here thought he was useless and we should give him to Southend and spend the Webster money in Webster II. 

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It's quite a strange quirk that we have only lost 3 times in 19 games but that, every time we have been beaten, it has been by a team scoring 3 goals or more. We seem to currently be very hard to beat except when we are very easy to beat, if that makes sense (which it really doesn't!)

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41 minutes ago, REDOXO said:

Nice how many think that Taylor Moore is one of our best players. It was only July when 90% on here thought he was useless and we should give him to Southend and spend the Webster money in Webster II. 

I found it strange that many thought he was crap because he didn't play well a few times at 19 years of age!

Hoping the same happens with Semenyo.

 

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41 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

I found it strange that many thought he was crap because he didn't play well a few times at 19 years of age!

Hoping the same happens with Semenyo.

 

Exactly. I nearly lost my shit a couple of times with the Semenyo is crap brigade. Obviously the grand children of the Paul Cheesley is crap brigade and the nephews of the Matt Smith is crap brigade. 

Edited by REDOXO

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2 minutes ago, REDOXO said:

Exactly. I nearly lost my shit a couple of times with the Semenyo is crap brigade. Obviously the grand children of the Paul Cheesley is crap brigade and the nephews of the Matt Smith is awful brigade. 

I think it's fair enough people saying he isn't ready yet. I think he probably is physically and technically ready, but just not mentally or tactically ready yet and needs time and more games to get there.

But for people say he is terrible, and that they can't see what he is good at is just ridiculous. He is obviously strong and quick, and can clearly shoot powerfully with both feet. People love to go way over when giving an opinion of a player they don't want in the team.

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I will be so happy to have Goal Difference 0 and to finish 2nd. I would like to win 4 games in a row with 5-4 and to lose one with 7-0 and then again 4 games in a row 5-4 and 7-0 defeat.

Hahaha.

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3 hours ago, REDOXO said:

Nice how many think that Taylor Moore is one of our best players. It was only July when 90% on here thought he was useless and we should give him to Southend and spend the Webster money in Webster II. 

I think he's done very well - much better than I expected and I'm very pleased for him, but do people really think he's one of our best players?

After he came on yesterday he quickly tried to dribble it out of defence and immediately lost possession, then shortly after played an awful ball to one of our players with a man on his back which got stolen.  If some of our other CBs had done that they'd be getting slated. He has the potential to be a good ball playing CB but I wouldn't call him that yet - It'll come with experience with him I'm sure, but I certainly wouldn't say he was one of our best players for now.

Edited by IAmNick

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3 minutes ago, IAmNick said:

I think he's done very well - much better than I expected and I'm very pleased for him, but do people really think he's one of our best players?

After he came on yesterday he quickly tried to dribble it out of defence and immediately lost possession, then shortly after played an awful ball to one of our players with a man on his back which got stolen.  If some of our other CBs had done that they'd be getting slated. He has the potential to be a good ball playing CB but I wouldn't call him that yet - It'll come with experience with him I'm sure, but I certainly wouldn't say he was one of our best players for now.

I think he was getting his decisions pretty spot on after a run of games with when to dribble, when to pass to a player etc.

There is an element of risk to any dribbling out of defence or passing out the back. But like you say, that pass was a bad decision, with high risk of us losing possession in dangerous position.

Hopefully just needs a run of games again, and maybe he was just trying too hard to impress when he should have played it safer.

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3 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

I think he was getting his decisions pretty spot on after a run of games with when to dribble, when to pass to a player etc.

There is an element of risk to any dribbling out of defence or passing out the back. But like you say, that pass was a bad decision, with high risk of us losing possession in dangerous position.

Hopefully just needs a run of games again, and maybe he was just trying too hard to impress when he should have played it safer.

Yeah I hope you're right. He needs time and experience before he can emulate the quality of Webster; if that's his aim he's certainly setting himself a very high bar which can only be a good thing.

With more game time together hopefully Nagy and Massengo will also understand what he's trying to do, and know when one of them needs to drop back and cover any gap he leaves so he can feel more comfortable moving forwards.

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7 minutes ago, IAmNick said:

Yeah I hope you're right. He needs time and experience before he can emulate the quality of Webster; if that's his aim he's certainly setting himself a very high bar which can only be a good thing.

With more game time together hopefully Nagy and Massengo will also understand what he's trying to do, and know when one of them needs to drop back and cover any gap he leaves so he can feel more comfortable moving forwards.

The one I noticed who was doing that earlier in the season was Pedro. He would come across to cover.

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2 minutes ago, IAmNick said:

Yeah I hope you're right. He needs time and experience before he can emulate the quality of Webster; if that's his aim he's certainly setting himself a very high bar which can only be a good thing.

With more game time together hopefully Nagy and Massengo will also understand what he's trying to do, and know when one of them needs to drop back and cover any gap he leaves so he can feel more comfortable moving forwards.

Yep. Well I can't see him ever being as good as Webster at running the whole length of the pitch, as he doesn't look to have Webster's pace, but even to be close to his ability would be great!

I wonder whether when Moore gets back in and is going on those runs, if Rowe is still at left back, then maybe he can cover him. I don't think Rowe is the most attacking full back, and always impresses me more when in more narrow positions, using his strength, aggression and surprising ability to win headers. Could work well until Dasilva is back.

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11 hours ago, Davefevs said:

There has been a decrease in clean sheets across the Champ this season.  Only Leeds are bucking that trend.

Any thoughts on why?  Tactics? Defensive frailties, improved attackers?  

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