Kasey Palmer, any good?

[reddogkev]

On the whole, I'm mixed about Kasey Palmer and not sure exactly what his main strengths are, or whether he should be a guaranteed starter.

I know he can sometimes thread a delicious through ball, but if he doesn't have someone to link with (like Afobe) does he offer much else?

I have my own questions about his attitude and work rate, based on what I've seen on the pitch and wonder if he will turn out to be a bit of a dud signing.

[OneTeamInBristol]

Just now, reddogkev said:

On the whole, I'm mixed about Kasey Palmer and not sure exactly what his main strengths are, or whether he should be a guaranteed starter.

I know he can sometimes thread a delicious through ball, but if he doesn't have someone to link with (like Afobe) does he offer much else?

I have my own questions about his attitude and work rate, based on what I've seen on the pitch and wonder if he will turn out to be a bit of a dud signing.

Obviously got very good quality in picking a pass or peforming a slick piece of skill.

But only at his best in certain games/situations.

Sometimes hangs onto the ball far too long and tries tricks in dangerous positions.

Sort of player who could change a game from the bench though.

[Bar BS3]

I think his attitude is fine. His work rate is actually better than I’d expected, but he’s a typical “JET” type player. 
Brilliant when he’s good & on it, but a bit of a liability to the team when he’s not. 
A bit more consistency and he could be a star. Until then, it’s hard for LJ to trust him. 

[Unan]

Good attitude surely, could've stayed at Chelsea in London not getting much game time. He wanted a permanent move, to settle down with his young family. 

He definitely isn't a guaranteed starter, but nobody is excluding Brownhill, it seems from this season anyway. 

I think he just doesn't have the same fitness levels as some of our other players, I don't think you can fault this too much though as he seems to be in the gym doing cardio every day. 

He holds on to the ball too much at times but I think it's because he's looking for a forward pass rather than backwards. I'd rather lose the ball in their half 4/5 times if 1/5 is a dangerous through ball. 

I don't think the way we play suits him so I'm not entirely sure why we signed him. I think you need to play with one up top to be able to accommodate a flair player, something LJ doesn't want to do that often. 

[mozo]

His performances were inconsistent on loan, and after a promising start to this season, he seems to have gone back to that player that is too niche to fit into the team. He needs an all round game to justify regular inclusion otherwise he risks becoming an impact sub for the rest of his days. 

Whilst I appreciate Palmer's natural ability, it bothers me that we don't buy players for specific roles.

[Mr Popodopolous]

I always had a feeling that Palmer-Weimann would be an ideal combination but we've not really seen it get a proper run. We saw at it WBA in a 3-5-1-1, but he's skilful, he's direct- granted his defensive attributes need some work for a start.

I wonder if when basically all fit talking early 2019 except for Afobe, something like:

               Bentley

Hunt Kalas Moore DaSilva

Brownhill Nagy Massengo Eliasson

                Palmer

               Weimann

This gives him a bit more freedom knowing there is a central block of 3 behind, the freedom to create but also a bit of freedom to at times through his creativity, make mistakes- Brownhill tucking in during some phases, is a bit of an insurance policy.

Thought him and Weimann could be rather fluid but not yet necessarily...the higher line enabled by Kalas and Moore could also give that freedom, to help compress the space more, yet also technically able CB's- Kalas more conservative of the two. In other phases, a nice 4-4-1-1 out of possession, a lopsided fluid 4-3-3/4-2-3-1 in possession- both would give Palmer more freedom than what we saw at WBA IMO. With Palmer's creativity, he can or with a proper run of games, pick those early runs of Weimann better than a lot can.

[mozo]

1 minute ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

I always had a feeling that Palmer-Weimann would be an ideal combination but we've not really seen it get a proper run. We saw at it WBA in a 3-5-1-1, but he's skilful, he's direct- granted his defensive attributes need some work for a start.

I wonder if when basically all fit talking early 2019 except for Afobe, something like:

               Bentley

Hunt Kalas Moore DaSilva

Brownhill Nagy Massengo Eliasson

                Palmer

               Weimann

This gives him a bit more freedom knowing there is a central block of 3 behind, the freedom to create but also make mistakes. Thought him and Weimann could be rather fluid but not yet necessarily...the higher line enabled by Kalas and Moore could also give that freedom, to help compress the space more, yet also technically able CB's- Kalas more conservative of the two. In other phases, a nice 4-4-1-1 out of possession, a lopsided fluid 4-3-3/4-2-3-1 in possession- both would give Palmer more freedom than what we saw at WBA IMO. With Palmer's creativity, he can or with a proper run of games, pick those early runs of Weimann better than a lot can.

I think Johnson would consider that line up to be too lightweight, and very vulnerable defending set pieces.

[Mr Popodopolous]

2 minutes ago, mozo said:

I think Johnson would consider that line up to be too lightweight, and very vulnerable defending set pieces.

Well you could switch up one of the CB's then perhaps, and Diedhiou certainly has his uses- but the lightweight thing can be a bit less decisive with fairly condensed central areas- the setpieces, perhaps Baker or Williams for one of the CB's then.

[Prinny]

I echo the above, but he's also a victim of the strikers that we have.

When Andy Weimann is alternatively too slow and bouncing off West Brom players it's hard to play through balls to him.

If your job is to get the ball, turn, then play forwards, and there's nothing ahead of you, what do you do?

Well hopefully what we do is sign a player capable of playing on the last shoulder to get the best out of Kasey.

2 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

I always had a feeling that Palmer-Weimann would be an ideal combination but we've not really seen it get a proper run. We saw at it WBA in a 3-5-1-1, but he's skilful, he's direct- granted his defensive attributes need some work for a start.

I wonder if when basically all fit talking early 2019 except for Afobe, something like:

               Bentley

Hunt Kalas Moore DaSilva

Brownhill Nagy Massengo Eliasson

                Palmer

               Weimann

This gives him a bit more freedom knowing there is a central block of 3 behind, the freedom to create but also make mistakes. Thought him and Weimann could be rather fluid but not yet necessarily...the higher line enabled by Kalas and Moore could also give that freedom, to help compress the space more, yet also technically able CB's- Kalas more conservative of the two. In other phases, a nice 4-4-1-1 out of possession, a lopsided fluid 4-3-3/4-2-3-1 in possession- both would give Palmer more freedom than what we saw at WBA IMO. With Palmer's creativity, he can or with a proper run of games, pick those early runs of Weimann better than a lot can.

I think Weimann can do that vs lower teams. But he was physically outclassed at West Brom. And we cannot have a Baker type lumping it up to Weimann. Problem with Kasey is you have to construct the team around him, and with injuries and championship churn it's hard to do that with the current squad.

[Riaz]

I like him, but he's either quality or anonymous

[Cowshed]

5 minutes ago, Seneca the Younger said:

Good attitude surely, could've stayed at Chelsea in London not getting much game time. He wanted a permanent move, to settle down with his young family. 

He definitely isn't a guaranteed starter, but nobody is excluding Brownhill, it seems from this season anyway. 

I think he just doesn't have the same fitness levels as some of our other players, I don't think you can fault this too much though as he seems to be in the gym doing cardio every day. 

He holds on to the ball too much at times but I think it's because he's looking for a dangerous pass rather than backwards. I'd rather lose the ball in their half 4/5 times if 1/5 is a dangerous through ball. 

I don't think the way we play suits him so I'm not entirely sure why we signed him. I think you need to play with one up top to be able to accommodate a flair player, something LJ doesn't want to do that often. 

What you are highlighting is attitude. Mindset drives physical effort and understanding. Good? Well certainly in need of more focus.

 

[Mr Popodopolous]

8 minutes ago, Prinny said:

I echo the above, but he's also a victim of the strikers that we have.

When Andy Weimann is alternatively too slow and bouncing off West Brom players it's hard to play through balls to him.

If your job is to get the ball, turn, then play forwards, and there's nothing ahead of you, what do you do?

Well hopefully what we do is sign a player capable of playing on the last shoulder to get the best out of Kasey.

I think Weimann can do that vs lower teams. But he was physically outclassed at West Brom. And we cannot have a Baker type lumping it up to Weimann. Problem with Kasey is you have to construct the team around him, and with injuries and championship churn it's hard to do that with the current squad.

Think the shape didn't help- I'd have gone with a 4-4-1-1 possibly, Hunt and DaSilva are going to always be a better outlet than Pereira and Rowe would be, O'Dowda at LWB was an interesting idea but perhaps a wrong experiment at this time!

 Likewise, Wright-Baker-Williams- has its uses but isn't going to help a side to be proactive, to play a higher line. If you get hemmed in a bit with that sort of setup, you can be in trouble- and injuries absolutely play a role here, because say Moore-Kalas-Williams/Baker will instantly make a difference. As would a fit Hunt and DaSilva.

Didn't we just hit it fairly long to Weimann often in that one- did him and us no favours!

[Judda]

Don't forget he's still young and improvement will come. I think he'd have more plaudits if he came through our academy...

[OneTeamInBristol]

2 minutes ago, Judda said:

Don't forget he's still young and improvement will come. I think he'd have more plaudits if he came through our academy...

Correct, think people forget he's only 23 as it seems like he's been around the league for a while.

[Unan]

2 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

What you are highlighting is attitude. Mindset drives physical effort and understanding. Good? Well certainly in need of more focus.

 

It is attitude. They are mutually inclusive to an extent too.

I couldn't comment on his mindset as I don't know him personally, he's certainly not a stoic, but apart from that I don't know what he's thinking. 

[Major Isewater]

Palmer is one of , if not , the best footballers at the club .

We mustn’t forget that he is only 22 and this is his first full season at BS3 . He still has a lot to learn but the base is there and I am convinced that he has the character to be a big player for us in the near future.

He needs a run in the team full stop . He will improve with game time both in fitness and linking up with his teammates.

We should be building the future around him , Nagy and Massengo.

 

[OneTeamInBristol]

2 minutes ago, Major Isewater said:

Palmer is one of , if not , the best footballers at the club .

We mustn’t forget that he is only 22 and this is his first full season at BS3 . He still has a lot to learn but the base is there and I am convinced that he has the character to be a big player for us in the near future.

He needs a run in the team full stop . He will improve with game time both in fitness and linking up with his teammates.

We should be building the future around him , Nagy and Massengo.

 

*23

[JoeAman08]

Think it is as simple as he needs someone quick and on the shoulder in front of him. Weimann isn’t a threat in behind to most defences in this league. The loss of Afobe hit Palmer the hardest imo. Get Nketiah in on loan and we would see the best of Kasey again imo

[bcfcredandwhite]

Palmer and Afobe ‘clicked’ really well and had a very special footballing relationship going on. 

Sadly, since Afobe got injured, he (Palmer) hasn’t really ‘clicked’ with anyone else.  Like many have said, we get flashes of brilliance amongst the ‘meh’ .

Maybe IF Afobe returns then the partnership may resurface - or with a new striker if we land one in January, but until then he will just have to work with who we have - analyse WHY his partnership with Afobe worked so well and try to recreate it with Diedhiou and/or Weimann - or that Spanish bloke who’s name I’ve temporarily forgotten. Maybe it’s our strikers who need to adapt their game slightly when Palmer plays(?)

[Mr Popodopolous]

Is Weimann all that slow though?

Perhaps we need to at times, spring him a bit quicker. Remember last season when he made those excellent early runs but nobody picked him up- recurring theme!

Ball circulation can be improved with e.g. Moore-Kalas-DaSilva all back and fit again in the back 4- the speed of it certainly. Believe that Nagy and Massengo can move it on quickly- this in turn can help to release Palmer to spring Weimann earlier.

Do agree though that Nketiah, or if he returns with some decent sharpness, Afobe would enhance Palmer's- and our- effectiveness but I wonder if we're getting the optimum out of Palmer-Weimann as a combination e.g.

[phantom]

This is no way meant to be critical of the player as I really think Palmer is not far off being a real star for us

But his game was a bit iffy when he was with us on loan last season and we were told that was due to his fitness not being up to speed

Clearly now that wasn't / isn't the issue, but sometimes he tries the "Hollywood ball" when not needed 

His game was massively affected by the Afobe injury as they were always on the same wavelength with balls over the top / into the channel for Benik to run onto

[Cowshed]

25 minutes ago, Seneca the Younger said:

It is attitude. They are mutually inclusive to an extent too.

I couldn't comment on his mindset as I don't know him personally, he's certainly not a stoic, but apart from that I don't know what he's thinking. 

Attitude is good or bad.

You highlighted flaws - A growth mindset is a generally positive attitude to adopt for individuals looking to improve performance. 

[KingLear]

Personally i'm of the opinion of if Afobe didn't get injured, this would be an entirely different conversation about him as they seemed to be on a great wavelength together.

Honestly, i'm glad we've got someone in the squad who will try the 'hollywood pass' or something else creative in the final third. How often have we had to sit through the slow, monotonous build up play from midfield players who would pass sideways, backwards, sideways.

We've been crying out for a creative influence in that midfield for a LONG time. With a bit more consistency/run of games, I think he's got the potential to be a key player in the side.

[Unan]

11 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

Attitude is good or bad.

You highlighted flaws - A growth mindset is a generally positive attitude to adopt for individuals looking to improve performance. 

I don't think I highlighted flaws in his attitude. 

These days players see 'sports' psychologists regularly so we can both hope that all of our players have the right mindset. 

[downendcity]

27 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Is Weimann all that slow though?

Perhaps we need to at times, spring him a bit quicker. Remember last season when he made those excellent early runs but nobody picked him up- recurring theme!

Ball circulation can be improved with e.g. Moore-Kalas-DaSilva all back and fit again in the back 4- the speed of it certainly. Believe that Nagy and Massengo can move it on quickly- this in turn can help to release Palmer to spring Weimann earlier.

Do agree though that Nketiah, or if he returns with some decent sharpness, Afobe would enhance Palmer's- and our- effectiveness but I wonder if we're getting the optimum out of Palmer-Weimann as a combination e.g.

I think that Palmer has suffered more than most through Afobe's absence. At the time of BA's injury, Palmer seemed to be on the same wavelength as Weimann and Afobe, and we were starting to see shim at his best.

Since then, Palmer seems to have suffered as a result of LJ's chops and changes on formation and that with FD up front we do seem to play a different game.

Palmer has the pace, power and skill to get past defenders and the ability to pick out killer passes. Unfortunately, this type of player will have weaknesses ( otherwise they would be playing at the very top level) and missed passes or missed tackles will always be picked up by City fans much more than the game winning passes.

If we had full strength defence with Nagy in front of them and Afobe up top, I reckon we would then see the best of Palmer.Unfortunately, we've not been able to play them this season.

 

[LondonBristolian]

I don't think the issue is one of attitude or work rate so much as decision-making. To be the kind of player is he is, and be effective, means picking the right ball at the right time and things coming off. KP has all the talent and ability he needs to succeed but, with attacking players, not doing the right things at the right moments means players seem anonymous and it is no coincidence that young flair players come across as inconsistent and anonymous in the games where it does not come off.

My impression is that he is someone who wants to work and improve and, if that is the case, that decision-making will come with time. My hope is, in a couple of years, he will be making the right decisions on a regular basis and then we will see a Hell of a player. 

[dunsteral]

I agree with the major Kasey Palmer is one of the most skilful players we have got and we should be utilising

that skill for the benefit of the team.  When it is said that either Weimann or Dedhiou are n,t the best types of

player to play with Kasey, surely that is what training 5 days a week is all about. Why do our coaching staff

not mould KP and AW or FD in to a good partnership. Is that because we haven,t got a striker coach (as has

been said recently). You cant expect all players to gel with each other unless you work at it in training.

[Simon bristol]

At this point, it seems to me we have a choice of cod, elliasson and palmer for a starting spot, and at the moment elliasson is getting it!

[The Journalist]

Like Niclas Eliasson, he's just crying out for a proper run of games. Lee Johnson clearly doesn't fully trust either of them, else they wouldn't be scapegoated every time we chuck in a bad 30/45/60-minute performance.

I thought he was unlucky to be taken off at West Bromwich Albion.

[Phileas Fogg]

1 hour ago, reddogkev said:

On the whole, I'm mixed about Kasey Palmer and not sure exactly what his main strengths are, or whether he should be a guaranteed starter.

I know he can sometimes thread a delicious through ball, but if he doesn't have someone to link with (like Afobe) does he offer much else?

I have my own questions about his attitude and work rate, based on what I've seen on the pitch and wonder if he will turn out to be a bit of a dud signing.

He's an incredibly gifted player but seems that like similar players to his style (Tomlin/Noble/JET/Trundle) you need to be very clever with how you get the best out of him.

On form, he's one of the best attacking midfielders at this level who needs games in a settled team to show it. I think it's difficult for players like him to get a run of games because of his style. Compare that to someone like Tommy Rowe, Josh Brownhill or Adam Nagy who's style can be made to fit most team setups.

It's such a shame the Afobe injury happened when it did - those two clearly had a great understanding and a genuine friendship, as evidenced by Palmer's social media posts about the tragic Afobe news this weekend.

His main strengths are his passing range, creativity and vision, i'm surprised you were unsure about that because they're pretty obvious. They are all great attributes to have, and the type of attributes that are essential for our midfielders to possess in order to utilise the strengths of Afobe, Weimann, Eliasson etc. 

I don't know how you can question his attitude though, he seems genuinely nice guy who gives his best. Compare that to Tomlin who was obviously a total moron and a cancerous personality to have around the dressing room.

I imagine you're fishing somewhat as usual, I have to hand it to you - you know how to generate replies.