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One Team In Keynsham

Things Wrong With Modern Football

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6 minutes ago, lost black rat said:

having some steward stopping me going to my seat  insisting I show him my ticket even  though I am in the ground . what is the point of it and if it is important why is he not thare  the following game

 

IF it's the singing section then they need to make sure it doesn't go overcapacity- could be linked to licensing or somesuch?

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Things Wrong With Modern Football : middle and old aged blokes banging on about the football of their youth, oblivious to the probability that they are, instead, sad and grieving for their lost youth, for the days when they were 15/18/21, and everything was new and fresh and to be explored and experienced. And finding the young fellows of 15/18/21/25 around them in the crowd and out there on the pitch in 2019 difficult to warm to or understand.

It has ever been thus, at football. Mind you, that Downsey is a ****ing m***n and this whole Bristol Sport s**t gets on my ****ing ***s

 

 

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Another aspect of modern football.

Lack of loyalty and continuity between clubs and managers.

Tonight Mourinho returning to OT- within the next few weeks he'll be playing Chelsea- managerial sackings and returnings and so on really used to be quite rare.

Edited by Mr Popodopolous

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Just now, Mr Popodopolous said:

Lack of loyalty and continuity between clubs and managers.

Tonight Mourinho returning to OT- within the next few weeks he'll be playing Chelsea- managerial sackings and returnings and so on really used to be quite rare.

 

Money, then

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6 minutes ago, AppyDAZE said:

Money, then

In a way, yeah- suppose it boils down to that?

Another aspect of modern football.

Ron Greenwood was in charge of West Ham from 1961-1974. Became General Manager until 1977.

Our own Alan Dicks was in charge here between 1967 and 1980.

Revie at Leeds until 1974, began in 1961.

Clough at Nottingham Forest between 1975-1993- though he did have a few clubs of his own!

I'm sure if I look there are other examples- oh yeah, Busby- 1945-1969 and then returned for a season or half season or something in 1970-71.

Bill Nicholson, 1958-74 Tottenham.

Shankly, 1959-1974 at Liverpool.

Clubs didn't really sack managers all that much either though- as well as just money, going onto bigger and more lucrative jobs.

Edited by Mr Popodopolous
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14 minutes ago, Reigate Red said:

There is so much in this thread that I agree with that it's making me wonder why I still bother. Never thought I would say this but the 70's seem like a golden age :unsure:

They weren't though. Crowds were dwindling steadily throughout that decade, as violence - off and on the pitch - increasingly negative and cynical football (hence the back pass law and three points for a win in the early 80s), and abysmal facilities turned hundreds of thousands off. 

By the early 80s, the game was on its knees, the crowds were dire (huge unemployment contributed to this too,mind), and the nadir was fast approaching. 

Things happen for a reason and we have the game we have now, because of the way the game was before. 

As I mentioned earlier in this thread, being 15 - 25 is a "golden age" not the football particularly. Today's 15 to 25 years olds will, in 30 years time, be looking back on their own "golden age" of 2019/20, while youngsters about them roll their eyes and yawn

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6 hours ago, elhombrecito said:

What exactly is wrong with the second picture? Just appears to be a couple of fans taking pictures of the stadium before the game kicks off? :dunno:

I know you’re only joking - but when you see a player take a corner on MOTD and behind him you just see loads of people filming the corner kick on their phones and iPads, I don’t like that ....

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6 minutes ago, Moments of Pleasure said:

They weren't though. Crowds were dwindling steadily throughout that decade, as violence - off and on the pitch - increasingly negative and cynical football (hence the back pass law and three points for a win in the early 80s), and abysmal facilities turned hundreds of thousands off. 

By the early 80s, the game was on its knees, the crowds were dire (huge unemployment contributed to this too,mind), and the nadir was fast approaching. 

Things happen for a reason and we have the game we have now, because of the way the game was before. 

As I mentioned earlier in this thread, being 15 - 25 is a "golden age" not the football particularly. Today's 15 to 25 years olds will, in 30 years time, be looking back on their own "golden age" of 2019/20, while youngsters about them roll their eyes and yawn

This is an excellent point.

Still feel things have swung quite sharply the other way though- there were a lot of factors, attendances were down significantly, hooliganism as you say- but still 30 years on, no standing, even of the "safe"variety, no alcohol and yes pricing out- this is all bad.

Clearly things had to change and I'd even argue that some of the reforms at the time were an important part of this- but time to row back on a few now IMO.

Edited by Mr Popodopolous

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53 minutes ago, Moments of Pleasure said:

Things Wrong With Modern Football : middle and old aged blokes banging on about the football of their youth, oblivious to the probability that they are, instead, sad and grieving for their lost youth, for the days when they were 15/18/21, and everything was new and fresh and to be explored and experienced. And finding the young fellows of 15/18/21/25 around them in the crowd and out there on the pitch in 2019 difficult to warm to or understand.

It has ever been thus, at football. Mind you, that Downsey is a ****ing m***n and this whole Bristol Sport s**t gets on my ****ing ***s

Well that’s taken the mood down ... I now feel inclined to sit in a darkened room illuminated only by one pink lightbulb, listen to Jesus & Mary Chain b-sides and sip a mellow merlot while staring wistfully at the wall opposite  .... 🍷☹️

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1 hour ago, Moments of Pleasure said:

They weren't though. Crowds were dwindling steadily throughout that decade, as violence - off and on the pitch - increasingly negative and cynical football (hence the back pass law and three points for a win in the early 80s), and abysmal facilities turned hundreds of thousands off. 

By the early 80s, the game was on its knees, the crowds were dire (huge unemployment contributed to this too,mind), and the nadir was fast approaching. 

Things happen for a reason and we have the game we have now, because of the way the game was before. 

As I mentioned earlier in this thread, being 15 - 25 is a "golden age" not the football particularly. Today's 15 to 25 years olds will, in 30 years time, be looking back on their own "golden age" of 2019/20, while youngsters about them roll their eyes and yawn

The back pass law changed in 92.

Three points for a win changed? Teams became more focussed on scoring first and then became more focussed on defending leads due to the team being ahead not wanting to lose two points v one. Fouls and yellow cards increased significantly in the ten years post three point change.

Crowds were diminishing prior to the seventies and eighties. The reasons for dwindling crowds are complex beyond violence and facilities. Were facilities better in the forties? No.   

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2 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

IF it's the singing section then they need to make sure it doesn't go overcapacity- could be linked to licensing or somesuch?

lansdown stand but the bit that is really annoying is one game they insist on seeing your card and the  next game no one their 

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VAR

It’s completely wiped out the enjoyment for fans and players when it matters most - when a goal is scored and whether or not to celebrate.

What a shit experience that must be, not sure I’d want to go through all that tbh.

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Fans moaning about players salaries

Fans moaning that players can’t miss the first player at a corner, showing no understanding of what the player is trying to do

Footballs being taken from a plinth by the ref

Pre match handshakes

VAR

Fouling players on the break....the third player to do it for a team should be sent off 

 Being called a *** if you don’t sing 

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2 hours ago, Cowshed said:

The back pass law changed in 92.

Three points for a win changed? Teams became more focussed on scoring first and then became more focussed on defending leads due to the team being ahead not wanting to lose two points v one. Fouls and yellow cards increased significantly in the ten years post three point change.

Crowds were diminishing prior to the seventies and eighties. The reasons for dwindling crowds are complex beyond violence and facilities. Were facilities better in the forties? No.   

In some parts of the country, unemployment rose quite sharply- spiked a bit? Surely impacts!

In isolation I kind of agree with your point,  but violence,  rising unemployment in varied areas especially and yes facilities is a bit of a perfect storm.

Edited by Mr Popodopolous

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2 hours ago, lost black rat said:

lansdown stand but the bit that is really annoying is one game they insist on seeing your card and the  next game no one their 

I remember a while ago posts on here about checks for people sneaking across from South to Lansdown, especially in the corner of the 2 stands. Maybe the two are linked. 

Still doesn't explain the inconsistency however! From what you state,  it sounds a bit random, arbitrary?

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8 hours ago, Cowshed said:

The back pass law changed in 92.

Three points for a win changed? Teams became more focussed on scoring first and then became more focussed on defending leads due to the team being ahead not wanting to lose two points v one. Fouls and yellow cards increased significantly in the ten years post three point change.

Crowds were diminishing prior to the seventies and eighties. The reasons for dwindling crowds are complex beyond violence and facilities. Were facilities better in the forties? No.   

The football wasn't "great" or any sort of "golden age" in the 70s; being 15 to 25 is what lots of (now) overweight, middle aged blokes are remembering as a "golden age," without quite realising it. That's the point

Edited by Moments of Pleasure
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8 hours ago, Cowshed said:

The back pass law changed in 92.

Three points for a win changed? Teams became more focussed on scoring first and then became more focussed on defending leads due to the team being ahead not wanting to lose two points v one. Fouls and yellow cards increased significantly in the ten years post three point change.

Crowds were diminishing prior to the seventies and eighties. The reasons for dwindling crowds are complex beyond violence and facilities. Were facilities better in the forties? No.   

Those that went in the 40s, when we got to the top in the 70s, and drew large crowds, might, being 30 years older, have fancied a seat, for the view, the guaranteed spot, the roof over your head, a bit of comfort, and being away from the young people that chanted obscenities and fought with each other; only, in a 37,000 capacity, there were a mere 7000 seats, many already sold to season ticket holders.

So, if it was raining, you couldn't get a seat, what did you do? Many didn’t bother.

If you go back and read the programmes from 75 to 80, there's a lot of mention of crowd behaviour impacting attendances and improving "facilities," often in Alan Dicks words to supporters. What AD didn't mention was the standard of football but it is well documented elsewhere. Compared to the post war and 50s it was negative, cynical and too "professional."

 

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16 hours ago, Dave L said:

This: 

Ban them all for the rest of the season.

They shouldn't be allowed to return until they've served 10 games as a forward in amateur rugby. Simple 

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The normal smells.

Used to love standing in the East End as a kid, getting there early and then slowly seeing it fill with cidered wurzels stinking of last night's curry, booze, fags and god knows what else. It would make me wretch anywhere else, but at football it was a heady mix. Eau De East End was remarkable. 

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10 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

I remember a while ago posts on here about checks for people sneaking across from South to Lansdown, especially in the corner of the 2 stands. Maybe the two are linked. 

Still doesn't explain the inconsistency however! From what you state,  it sounds a bit random, arbitrary?

Tickets should be checked really.  Otherwise people will buy the cheapest ticket and sit anywhere they want.

I sit in upper Lansdown and move to south stand around 80 mins so I can be away quicker on the final whistle but at least I’m moving to the cheaper seats!

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19 hours ago, Bazooka Joe said:

Wprds and phrases like "Projects" and "one for the future"

However, good to see that Rovers are still playing in a ground with faclities that are far worse than those which existed in the 1920s.

OMG yes!!! the word "project" drives me insane.

Much the same way as Sky banging on about "the promised land" to the point that normal fans now parrot the line. F**ing ridiculous phrase that makes me want to strangle anyone who so much mutters it. 

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20 hours ago, ZiderEyed said:

- VAR

- Taking endless pictures at games

- Football tourists

- Half and Half Scarves

- Skyrocketing ticket prices

- Endless TV shows breaking down every single element of the game without making ONE sensible point

- Football twitter

- New kits every season

- Tat with the club badge printed on it going for 20 quid a go

- Club identities and cultures being diluted by health and safety, egomaniac owners, and rebuilt stadiums

- Hideous new-build bowl stadiums. It's a football ground not a ******* athletics stadium

- Phones out all game

- Social media posts about the fact you've been to a game. Nobody cares, its a desperate attempt to claim an identity.

- 12:00 Sunday kick offs

- Pre-match music

- Lack of places to stand, and standing being demonised. 

- Lack of local born players, and emphasis on money over loyalty to one club

- #MourinhoOut then #MourinhoIn

- Petulant children demanding instant success

- Sanitisation of the matchday experience and atmosphere

- Any contact being treated as a foul

- Americanisms

- Betting

- No alcohol drinking in view of the pitch

- Grown adults wearing a replica kit

....and breathe! I totally agree with everything on your list - I’d probably add playoffs though - it’s criminal that you can finish third in a division and not go up when a team finishing several places below you can waltz into the division above ...

I remember way back when Wolves were in the depths, they lost to Aldershot (who’d finished 6th) in the 4th division play offs when they ended the season quite a few points ahead of the Shots and had beaten them home and away that season ...

 

Edited by BS4 on Tour...
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44 minutes ago, RedDave said:

Tickets should be checked really.  Otherwise people will buy the cheapest ticket and sit anywhere they want.

I sit in upper Lansdown and move to south stand around 80 mins so I can be away quicker on the final whistle but at least I’m moving to the cheaper seats!

You leave the top tier of the lansdown, down all the steps, go back into the concourse, come back up into the south stand in order to go back down into the concourse to leave quicker at the end of the game? 🤔 

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I have a major problem with VAR, and that is apart from the fact of the numerous delays, referees not looking at the pitchside monitors and goalscorers being unable to spontaneously celebrate, due to having to wait two minutes!!    My problem is the unlevel playing field  (Was it EVER level?).   VAR should either exsist for the entire four divisions of the `professional football leagues, or NOT at all.   There is more than enough money sloshing around within football to provide it for everyone, but NO, only the Premiership get it.   It's like getting a speeding ticket if you own a Ford Mondeo.......but if you drive a Porsche, being let off.    Just to scratch the surface with one tiny example, WBA's 3rd and 4th goals would have been disallowed in our 4-1 defeat (sic) if it was a Premiership game. Come the end of the season, we miss out on the sixth play off spot by a 2 goal margin.  And this is a miniscule fraction of the goals that are given/not given in the lower leagues.........while the left wingers right hand testicle denys a winning goal in a Premiership match, by encroaching over the offside line?   

    It massively unbalances amd makes a mockery of the whole fairness of the pyramid system of Professional football, where the Premiership is played under a Microscope, yet the lower leagues depend on the vagaries of the match officials questionable decision making.   VAR should be scrapped, until it is available for all four divisions, or until the Premiership clubs, currently awash with SKY money, put their hands into their deep pockets and  finance the clubs lower down the pyramid of the English Football Leagues, or indeed, FIFA loosen the purse strings of their crammed vaults of money, to introduce some impartiality, rather than profiteering into the game? 😬😬

 

 

Edited by maxjak
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50 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

....and breathe! I totally agree with everything on your list - I’d probably add playoffs though - it’s criminal that you can finish third in a division and not go up when a team finishing several places below you can waltz into the division above ...

I remember way back when Wolves were in the depths, they lost to Aldershot (who’d finished 6th) in the 4th division play offs when they ended the season quite a few points ahead of the Shots and had beaten them home and away that season ...

 

Sorry........I understand your viewpoint, and the seemingly unfair element..............but the Playofffs completely revived excitement and interest in the game.   For all it's faults, it maintains drama and action right to the end of the season.  IMHO I believe it transformed promotion and relegation to new levels.

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11 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

In some parts of the country, unemployment rose quite sharply- spiked a bit? Surely impacts!

In isolation I kind of agree with your point,  but violence,  rising unemployment in varied areas especially and yes facilities is a bit of a perfect storm.

A perfect storm that did not exist during decades when crowd figures also dropped.

Football did have spikes where attendances nationally rose then dropped post 66 and 90 logically due to the national team.

There are lots of variables over decades. Across society other forms of leisure also experienced declining attendances over extended periods e.g. swimming pools and cinema. Its quite lazy to blame decade upon decade of declining attendance on facilities and hooliganism. Its clearly a far more complex picture than facilities and violence. 

5 hours ago, Moments of Pleasure said:

Those that went in the 40s, when we got to the top in the 70s, and drew large crowds, might, being 30 years older, have fancied a seat, for the view, the guaranteed spot, the roof over your head, a bit of comfort, and being away from the young people that chanted obscenities and fought with each other; only, in a 37,000 capacity, there were a mere 7000 seats, many already sold to season ticket holders.

So, if it was raining, you couldn't get a seat, what did you do? Many didn’t bother.

If you go back and read the programmes from 75 to 80, there's a lot of mention of crowd behaviour impacting attendances and improving "facilities," often in Alan Dicks words to supporters. What AD didn't mention was the standard of football but it is well documented elsewhere. Compared to the post war and 50s it was negative, cynical and too "professional."

 

I with respect cannot clearly understand the points you are making.

 

 

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52 minutes ago, OneTeamInBristol said:

You leave the top tier of the lansdown, down all the steps, go back into the concourse, come back up into the south stand in order to go back down into the concourse to leave quicker at the end of the game? 🤔 

I Leave the stadium through the south stand anyway. It takes me two minutes to get from one seat to the next. I sit near the exit in the south stand, there are always seats. 

Those two minutes mean I leave the ground 10 seconds after the final whistle and am away. Probably get home 30 minutes earlier than I would do if I just left my Lansdown seat on the final whistle. Which is good as I need to be home for 5:30 on match days 

Genius 

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5 minutes ago, maxjak said:

Sorry........I understand your viewpoint, and the seemingly unfair element..............but the Playofffs completely revived excitement and interest in the game.   For all it's faults, it maintains drama and action right to the end of the season.  IMHO I believe it transformed promotion and relegation to new levels.

Play offs is one of the best rule changes for sure. Imagine having nothing to aim for in February. How boring 

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3 minutes ago, RedDave said:

I Leave the stadium through the south stand anyway. It takes me two minutes to get from one seat to the next. I sit near the exit in the south stand, there are always seats. 

Those two minutes mean I leave the ground 10 seconds after the final whistle and am away. Probably get home 30 minutes earlier than I would do if I just left my Lansdown seat on the final whistle. Which is good as I need to be home for 5:30 on match days 

Genius 

Fair enough!

Just seems funny that you'd chance missing the action for a few minutes during often the most exciting and incident filled part of the game!

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24 minutes ago, maxjak said:

Sorry........I understand your viewpoint, and the seemingly unfair element..............but the Playofffs completely revived excitement and interest in the game.   For all it's faults, it maintains drama and action right to the end of the season.  IMHO I believe it transformed promotion and relegation to new levels.

No need to apologise - we just happen to have different opinions on the play offs. They are/were even more ridiculous in rugby union but I just don’t think they are fair in the football world - for a team in lower mid table to be in with a chance of promotion with a few games to go just isn’t right. If the table doesn’t lie then the top teams should go up automatically without having to prove themselves again (against teams they’ve already played) in a mini league.

If the play offs were reformed I’d feel better about them. I’ve said for years that if teams in 3rd to 6th go into the play offs then it should go like this:

5th plays at home to 6th

Then 4th plays at home against the winner of that game

Then 3rd plays the winner of that game at Wembley for a promotion place

This would mean that the team finishing 6th would have to work harder to go up via the play offs than the team finishing 3rd, they’d have to earn it

Just a thought ...

Edited by BS4 on Tour...
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29 minutes ago, OneTeamInBristol said:

Fair enough!

Just seems funny that you'd chance missing the action for a few minutes during often the most exciting and incident filled part of the game!

I am flexible as to when I do it so normally an injury or substitution. 

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58 minutes ago, RedDave said:

Play offs is one of the best rule changes for sure. Imagine having nothing to aim for in February. How boring 

Glad you have mentioned the upside there is so much great stuff as well.

European cup "leagues" mean much more football to watch between City games

The new goal kick rule is better

Multiple substitutions and bench sizes.

The pitches and training facilities (including backroom specialists / coaches)

Overseas players and managers - someone mentioned above the long tenure of UK managers in days gone by but we have seen what modern thinking can do - the "Wenger effect" and how more clubs can now challenge ie Blackburn, Leicester or even reach the Premier League (but perhaps not stay there)

Community projects and sponsorships

Edible food - how quickly we forget the greasy days gone by

No longer expecting to be pelted with coins and other objects at away games

No crushes in the East End 

Women in crowds

Being able to see the match if you are young / short

Scouting

Ball Control / Fitness / Athleticism  rather than fags at half time

Longer player careers

I'll take all that if it means putting up with a few halfwits looking at the phones all game

 

Edited by Dullmoan Tone

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2 hours ago, poland_exile said:

The normal smells.

Used to love standing in the East End as a kid, getting there early and then slowly seeing it fill with cidered wurzels stinking of last night's curry, booze, fags and god knows what else. It would make me wretch anywhere else, but at football it was a heady mix. Eau De East End was remarkable. 

For a while I used to stand in the enclosure next to the players’ tunnel. Oh, the luxurious smell of liniment wafting through the air as the players ran out. 

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Holding / wrestling at corners. It's a FOUL!! Yes, players have been impeded historically but a bear hug is a foul, end of. :angry:

When it changed I don't know but it's easily fixed yet isn't. Start penalising defenders for holding, sorted!!

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4 minutes ago, pongo88 said:

For a while I used to stand in the enclosure next to the players’ tunnel. Oh, the luxurious smell of liniment wafting through the air as the players ran out. 

It's amazing to think, but football genuinely used to have it's own very unique aroma: from passing the chippy by the Rising Sun and the pungent stench of the geezers flogging The Post Special, to the noxious poisons drifting from the breeze block urinals of the East End... It was... just fabulous!!! 

And Boxing Day was always hilarious to smell all the geezers wearing their overdose of dodgy Christmas aftershave :D 

 

Edited by poland_exile
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4 minutes ago, pongo88 said:

For a while I used to stand in the enclosure next to the players’ tunnel. Oh, the luxurious smell of liniment wafting through the air as the players ran out. 

Bovril, I miss the smell of bovril at games. :( Can you still get it at the Gate nowadays I wonder. 

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5 hours ago, poland_exile said:

It's amazing to think, but football genuinely used to have it's own very unique aroma: from passing the chippy by the Rising Sun and the pungent stench of the geezers flogging The Post Special, to the noxious poisons drifting from the breeze block urinals of the East End... It was... just fabulous!!! 

And Boxing Day was always hilarious to smell all the geezers wearing their overdose of dodgy Christmas aftershave :D 

 

Along with the smell of Slim Panatellas replacing Players No.6 for one day only!

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