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CyderInACan

Flares at Fulham

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16 minutes ago, Redinthehead said:

Do you even know what political correctness is? If so, how in the hell has that got anything to do with flares?

Reading the thread there is a moral outrage present, but it is also clear that theme is not present throughout all views. Some will be indifferent. Some fans clearly like pyrotechnics - Hundreds of fans at the flag day do not share this pyro is bad correct view. 

 

Edited by Cowshed
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7 minutes ago, poland_exile said:

the gaps to the side are segregation. Realize it's not everyone's cup of tea the continental way of doing things, but the point I'm trying to make is that there feels like a real element of panic mongering when we have threads about one sodding flare. No doubt i'll get torn a new one in a moment by the usual suspects on here but that really is the truth - no-one got hurt in the making of this picture! 

(sits back with pint and awaits the flak forthcoming)  

Legal there. Not legal here.

Can’t make it any simpler for you.

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7 minutes ago, poland_exile said:

the gaps to the side are segregation. Realize it's not everyone's cup of tea the continental way of doing things, but the point I'm trying to make is that there feels like a real element of panic mongering when we have threads about one sodding flare. No doubt i'll get torn a new one in a moment by the usual suspects on here but that really is the truth - no-one got hurt in the making of this picture! 

(sits back with pint and awaits the flak forthcoming)  

Was this little boy panic mongering about one sodding flare?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sportsnews/article-6923229/Young-Chelsea-supporter-left-needing-aid-treatment-Liverpool-fans-threw-smoke-bomb.html

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Just now, RumRed said:

Legal there. Not legal here.

Can’t make it any simpler for you.

well you can start by getting your facts right because you are talking totally out of your arse :D No it's not legal, can I make it any simpler for you? 

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7 minutes ago, poland_exile said:

the gaps to the side are segregation. Realize it's not everyone's cup of tea the continental way of doing things, but the point I'm trying to make is that there feels like a real element of panic mongering when we have threads about one sodding flare. No doubt i'll get torn a new one in a moment by the usual suspects on here but that really is the truth - no-one got hurt in the making of this picture! 

(sits back with pint and awaits the flak forthcoming)  

I’ll bite - the difference is everyone there will know that there’ll be flares and pyros so I doubt people with asthma etc would attend. 

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Just now, Up The City! said:

nice one, bring out the Daily Mail to support your cause :D not like them to make a story about red eyes and a cough. Oh wait... 

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1 minute ago, poland_exile said:

well you can start by getting your facts right because you are talking totally out of your arse :D No it's not legal, can I make it any simpler for you? 

Well in which case they’re more ******* stupid than I thought.

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Just now, RumRed said:

Well in which case they’re more ******* stupid than I thought.

I'd encourage you to attend a match and draw your conclusions then. Maybe you'd stick to your guns, fair play, but then again maybe not. 

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3 minutes ago, poland_exile said:

nice one, bring out the Daily Mail to support your cause :D not like them to make a story about red eyes and a cough. Oh wait... 

Nice one, use the Daily Mail as a way to distract away from the fact a 9 year old child required first aid.

 

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4 minutes ago, poland_exile said:

I'd encourage you to attend a match and draw your conclusions then. Maybe you'd stick to your guns, fair play, but then again maybe not. 

I was there on Saturday and I can say that:

A) the flare added nothing to the atmosphere, in fact in many respects detracted from it.

B) the flare stank and caused a couple of people around it to cough quite severely, now imagine if they’d had asthma or another lung condition that may have required first aid?

C) the guy got kicked out, missed a great game and will probably miss many more because of it, absolutely pointless reason to miss football imo. 

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5 minutes ago, Mr X said:

I’ll bite - the difference is everyone there will know that there’ll be flares and pyros so I doubt people with asthma etc would attend. 

 I don't see that as a bite, I see that as a perfectly sensible query to raise. From my experience, and I am a self-confessed storm-chaser when it comes to 'edgy' matches in Central Eastern Europe, one thing I'm convinced about is that if anything, the tifo shows and suchlike are a major drawer and part of the theater of football. It was common knowledge both teams were putting on a big 'show' today, and when the game was invariably held up for 20 mins or so, did people retreat into the safety of corporate or the canteens. No way! It was the biggest gate the home side has had for years, and the kids around me were in awe of what was going on - as all were. Frankly, the atmosphere was wonderful, and far better than the football! 

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1 hour ago, JulieH said:

Massive and incorrect assumption made .

the Male from Fulham is not part of Sec 82 .

 

How do you know that? Do they all have membership cards?

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3 minutes ago, poland_exile said:

 I don't see that as a bite, I see that as a perfectly sensible query to raise. From my experience, and I am a self-confessed storm-chaser when it comes to 'edgy' matches in Central Eastern Europe, one thing I'm convinced about is that if anything, the tifo shows and suchlike are a major drawer and part of the theater of football. It was common knowledge both teams were putting on a big 'show' today, and when the game was invariably held up for 20 mins or so, did people retreat into the safety of corporate or the canteens. No way! It was the biggest gate the home side has had for years, and the kids around me were in awe of what was going on - as all were. Frankly, the atmosphere was wonderful, and far better than the football! 

Fair point - I think the tifos are great and would love to see stuff like that at Ashton Gate! Pyros and flares are more part of the culture in Eastern Europe than here though so I doubt fans who have breathing difficulties would sit near the ultras whereas at away games in England you haven’t got a choice as to where you go.

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8 minutes ago, JBFC II said:

I was there on Saturday and I can say that:

A) the flare added nothing to the atmosphere, in fact in many respects detracted from it.

B) the flare stank and caused a couple of people around it to cough quite severely, now imagine if they’d had asthma or another lung condition that may have required first aid?

C) the guy got kicked out, missed a great game and will probably miss many more because of it, absolutely pointless reason to miss football imo. 

Fair enough, and I appreciate the measured response. I was sticking my head above the parapet as I acknowledged with my post. Exiting the convo with a tip of the hat to you. The two sides of the divide are not going to build a bridge to cross the issue. 

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2 hours ago, Mr X said:

Fans always go on about how great the atmosphere was in the 70s and 80s and fans didn’t have to resort to using pyros then! You can create a great atmosphere just with loud as **** chanting without risking other fans lives with flares if they have breathing conditions just to look hard! Use your brain ffs! 

Some of them don't have a brain!

 

Edited by Redtucks

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1 hour ago, poland_exile said:

I'd encourage you to attend a match and draw your conclusions then. Maybe you'd stick to your guns, fair play, but then again maybe not. 

I draw my conclusions from the fact it’s illegal.  That’s the only position I can hold.  And flares at football matches isn’t really important enough to start a revolution over.

I want safe standing in the UK, and be able to have a cider in view of the pitch.  The illegal pyro shit, for nothing, is an excuse for politicians not to address these issues.

If people want pyro then fine, campaign for it to be legal, but don’t **** up our chances of getting what the majority want  rather than the minority.

Also the difference here is that the pyro blokes haven’t got the balls to hold it like they do abroad so it’s lit and lobbed within a couple of seconds, not bright. Completely different to the photo you posted.

I hope you realise I’m not totally against the ‘idea’ of it but a random, with **** knows what, setting one off and throwing it into a packed crowd is ******* out of order.

 

Edited by RumRed
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6 minutes ago, RumRed said:

I draw my conclusions from the fact it’s illegal.  That’s the only position I can hold.  And flares at football matches isn’t really important enough to start a revolution over.

I want safe standing in the UK, and be able to have a cider in view of the pitch.  The illegal pyro shit, for nothing, is an excuse for politicians not to address these issues.

If people want pyro then fine, campaign for it to be legal, but don’t **** up our chances of getting what the majority want  rather than the minority.

Also difference here is that the pyro blokes haven’t got the balls to hold it like they do abroad so it’s lit and lobbed within a couple of seconds.  Completely different to the photo you posted.

 

Fair play Rum, I've run out of likes for the day so please take this response as one instead. 

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3 minutes ago, poland_exile said:

Fair play Rum, I've run out of likes for the day so please take this response as one instead. 

Thanks, I hope you understand my position.  I have edited my last post too so I hope my argument is a little better presented.

There are more swear words though!

Edited by RumRed

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54 minutes ago, JBFC II said:

I was there on Saturday and I can say that:

A) the flare added nothing to the atmosphere, in fact in many respects detracted from it.

B) the flare stank and caused a couple of people around it to cough quite severely, now imagine if they’d had asthma or another lung condition that may have required first aid?

C) the guy got kicked out, missed a great game and will probably miss many more because of it, absolutely pointless reason to miss football imo. 

I can confirm that one of the blokes that was right next to him does have quite bad asthma and he has no problems with it whatsoever. 

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46 minutes ago, 54-46 said:

How do you know that? Do they all have membership cards?

They are all season ticket holders and sit / stand in certain area of the ground. He is not from there 

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1 minute ago, lenred said:

I can confirm that one of the blokes that was right next to him does have quite bad asthma and he has no problems with it whatsoever. 

He was obviously lucky then, I could imagine they can do some damage

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Just now, JBFC II said:

He was obviously lucky then, I could imagine they can do some damage

It wasn’t the most pleasant of experiences but not sure why people get so very wound up about it tbh. Bloke who did it didn’t chuck it anywhere, it wasn’t dangerous at all from what I experienced. Far far worse things go on at football imho including yesterday. 

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1 minute ago, lenred said:

It wasn’t the most pleasant of experiences but not sure why people get so very wound up about it tbh. Bloke who did it didn’t chuck it anywhere, it wasn’t dangerous at all from what I experienced. Far far worse things go on at football imho including yesterday. 

He didn’t chuck it that’s true, the main problem is there have been isolated incidences of people getting injured by them and so there’s always that risk. 
 

Add to that the fact they don’t add anything to the atmosphere and they just seem like a waste of time to me

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8 minutes ago, JBFC II said:

He was obviously lucky then, I could imagine they can do some damage

Yep I have no respiratory issues (that I am aware of) and I find them suffocating. They smell, distort your view and it doesn't look intimidating in any way......if anything it makes the atmosphere shite.

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30 minutes ago, Bristol Rob said:

The only people letting off flares at City games are GASHEADS - determined to get City fined and docked points.

 

For a moment there I thought I was on Gaschat

 

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3 hours ago, pongo88 said:

Wrong. That might be what you’ve complained about, but others have complained about being asked to open their coats. 

But for what purpose are SOME fans being asked to open their coats? It clearly isn't to counter any serious threat as the smuggling of pyros has shown that to be utterly worthless?

There are folks in front of me each week who pipe up with the best part of a picnic hamper, silver foil wrapped sarnies and cake, flasks of tea et al. Small chance they get checked?

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1 hour ago, BTRFTG said:

But for what purpose are SOME fans being asked to open their coats? It clearly isn't to counter any serious threat as the smuggling of pyros has shown that to be utterly worthless?

There are folks in front of me each week who pipe up with the best part of a picnic hamper, silver foil wrapped sarnies and cake, flasks of tea et al. Small chance they get checked?

Your sound upset that he doesn’t share his picnic :laugh: go on ask he might let you have a sarnie or a bit cake if your lucky😂😂

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9 hours ago, poland_exile said:

 I don't see that as a bite, I see that as a perfectly sensible query to raise. From my experience, and I am a self-confessed storm-chaser when it comes to 'edgy' matches in Central Eastern Europe, one thing I'm convinced about is that if anything, the tifo shows and suchlike are a major drawer and part of the theater of football. It was common knowledge both teams were putting on a big 'show' today, and when the game was invariably held up for 20 mins or so, did people retreat into the safety of corporate or the canteens. No way! It was the biggest gate the home side has had for years, and the kids around me were in awe of what was going on - as all were. Frankly, the atmosphere was wonderful, and far better than the football! 

Why not just go to an empty stadium and do it? They’re obviously not interested in watching the game. 
I guess I’m not interested in watching the high jinx of other supporters, I’m only interested in the football 

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7 hours ago, BTRFTG said:

But for what purpose are SOME fans being asked to open their coats? It clearly isn't to counter any serious threat as the smuggling of pyros has shown that to be utterly worthless?

There are folks in front of me each week who pipe up with the best part of a picnic hamper, silver foil wrapped sarnies and cake, flasks of tea et al. Small chance they get checked?

Without an actual barrier and queueing system,  or placing the stewards right on the turnstiles themselves, it'd be near impossible to search everyone properly and thoroughly.

Edited by Mr Popodopolous

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36 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Without an actual barrier and queueing system,  or placing the stewards right on the turnstiles themselves, it'd be near impossible to search everyone properly and thoroughly.

It happened when we went to Man C.

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43 minutes ago, Drew Peacock said:

It happened when we went to Man C.

What did?

Believe it or not, walk fast and confidently and it is easy to get through unsearched at peak times at AG, dunno about away end but it's certainly possible in home ends.

Away fans tend to get searched more thoroughly as a general rule, based on what I've read anyway.

I expect one of the knock on effects of this will be more rigorous searching when we go away for a while.

In theory, there is scope or would be scope for a policy that says no search accepted, no entry.

Edited by Mr Popodopolous

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35 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

What did?

Believe it or not, walk fast and confidently and it is easy to get through unsearched at peak times at AG, dunno about away end but it's certainly possible in home ends.

Away fans tend to get searched more thoroughly as a general rule, based on what I've read anyway.

I expect one of the knock on effects of this will be more rigorous searching when we go away for a while.

In theory, there is scope or would be scope for a policy that says no search accepted, no entry.

A proper search did.

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16 minutes ago, Drew Peacock said:

A proper search did.

This convo feels fairly circular.

Put quickly and quite simply. Club have right to search, fans have the right to refuse search but if they refuse, club can in turn refuse entry. Quite plausible to slip through at peak time under current system!

Edited by Mr Popodopolous

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14 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

This convo feels fairly circular.

Put quickly and quite simply. Club have right to search, fans have the right to refuse search but if they refuse, club can in turn refuse entry. Quite plausible to slip through at peak time under current system!

I think I have been asked to open my jacket once. Bag searches are also sporadic to say the least. 

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9 minutes ago, CyderInACan said:

I think I have been asked to open my jacket once. Bag searches are also sporadic to say the least. 

Can depend which end you enter, or so I read on here.

Which is in itself curious.

Edited by Mr Popodopolous

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4 minutes ago, CyderInACan said:

I think I have been asked to open my jacket once. Bag searches are also sporadic to say the least. 

I always have my bag searched. Unhappy when it doesn't get tagged :laugh:

IMG_2512.JPG

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1 hour ago, exAtyeoMax said:

I always have my bag searched. Unhappy when it doesn't get tagged :laugh:

IMG_2512.JPG

Coming to ebay soon - a collection of Ashton Gate bag search tags.

Maybe NTTDS will want them to add to his collection of City items.

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Pretty childish really, Told not to do something but they do it anyway, reminds my of my 5 year old boy, Pathetic really.

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3 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Without an actual barrier and queueing system,  or placing the stewards right on the turnstiles themselves, it'd be near impossible to search everyone properly and thoroughly.

What, like Man City and numerous other events do? If the risk assessment requires searching then searching it must be for all, not the shambles AG operates.

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2 minutes ago, BTRFTG said:

What, like Man City and numerous other events do? If the risk assessment requires searching then searching it must be for all, not the shambles AG operates.

Did they have barriers/queuing system at Man City?

Agree, search should be at all entrances, otherwise it's quite pointless.

Edited by Mr Popodopolous

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1 minute ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Did they have barriers/queuing system at Man City?

Agree, search should be at all entrances, otherwise it's quite pointless.

They had metal detection with physical searching plus metal and taggant detection (dogs & wand.) Quick, well trained, thorough and absolutely no problem. And EVERYONE was searched.

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I was stood directly behind the smoke bomb. Wasn't pleasant - coughed half my lung up! We were so packed in, there was no way to escape it. The bloke that got ejected had a very distinctive hat on - quite how he thought he'd get away with it is beyond me

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6 hours ago, exAtyeoMax said:

Why not just go to an empty stadium and do it? They’re obviously not interested in watching the game. 
I guess I’m not interested in watching the high jinx of other supporters, I’m only interested in the football 

well by your logic, why don't you just stay at home and watch the football on TV? Better angles, it's nice and warm and you won't have any jostling and swearing.

I thought the whole point of going to football rather than sitting at home was for the thrills and excitement of the overall experience. 

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Just now, poland_exile said:

well by your logic, why don't you just stay at home and watch the football on TV? Better angles, it's nice and warm and you won't have any jostling and swearing.

I thought the whole point of going to football rather than sitting at home was for the thrills and excitement of the overall experience. 

No not at all. If I watch on TV I am governed by the what the TV company/producer/cameraman decides to let me see. I go to a game to watch all that I can see with my own eyes, chatting to friends and soaking up the atmosphere while I'm there. I don't like watching it on telly, especially with the dreadful commentary and awful editing.

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Just out of interest, those who seem to advocate ignoring the rules on flares being used inside the ground, what other rules do you think are just arbitrary and should be ignored? 

It will be interesting to see how many of the things on the list would result in the rest of us and/or the club suffering as a result, e.g. fines or points deductions or areas of the ground being closed. I stand in the Section 82 area and I would be really disappointed if something a group of idiots did, made that area inaccessible. 

 

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