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southvillekiddy

This is what always makes I wee about following City

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We beat the third placed team away then next game lose at home to a mid-table team. Unless we are able to stop doing this we do not deserve to be in the top flight. 

You would think this is a coaching issue? and a sports psychology issue? A good team can take the energy of an exciting win (at Fulham) and control it so as to avoid a banana skin in the next game

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40 minutes ago, wendyredredrobin said:

Indeed, the wonders of the championship. The best teams in the league don't blow hot and cold. Striker in January, keep the performance levels up and we might be in the playoff mix...

 

Hope you are right mate because we are in an even better position this season than when we bottled getting big signings at Christmas two years ago.

I wonder what Ashton and Sir Steve are planning

Please not consolidation, consolidation, consolidation again, again.

Edited by southvillekiddy
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17 hours ago, southvillekiddy said:

Hope you are right mate because we are in an even better position this season than when we bottled getting big signings at Christmas two years ago.

I wonder what Ashton and Sir Steve are planning

Please not consolidation, consolidation, consolidation again, again.

Too much consolidation leads to constipation.

And last night, some of them played like they had it.

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1 hour ago, Bazooka Joe said:

Too much consolidation leads to constipation.

And last night, some of them played like they had it.

That's what they say about syncopation - "a bowel condition brought on by playing too much jazz".

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6 minutes ago, southvillekiddy said:

That's what they say about syncopation - "a bowel condition brought on by playing too much jazz".

For me it's a bowel movement brought on by listening to Jazz

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21 hours ago, southvillekiddy said:

We beat the third placed team away then next game lose at home to a mid-table team. Unless we are able to stop doing this we do not deserve to be in the top flight. 

You would think this is a coaching issue? and a sports psychology issue? A good team can take the energy of an exciting win (at Fulham) and control it so as to avoid a banana skin in the next game

It has been a City habit for as long as I have watched them.

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31 minutes ago, Drew Peacock said:

It has been a City habit for as long as I have watched them.

Some would have Monk as boss but could we kick the habit?

i'll get me coat, umm habit

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22 hours ago, southvillekiddy said:

We beat the third placed team away then next game lose at home to a mid-table team. ..........

 

You make it sound as though Millwall is an average to poor team. Yes, the club is mid table but it’s only 5 points behind City. Millwall’s recent form under new manager Gary Rowett is better than City’s with 12 points from the last 6 matches. 

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10 minutes ago, pongo88 said:

You make it sound as though Millwall is an average to poor team. Yes, the club is mid table but it’s only 5 points behind City. Millwall’s recent form under new manager Gary Rowett is better than City’s with 12 points from the last 6 matches. 

Okay mate. I didn't make anything sound like anything. I didn't comment on Millwall's ability I said they were mid -table. There are no easy games in this League  but which was the more difficult game Fulham Away or Millwall at home?

Would you say Millwall are a better side than Fulham?

 

 

Edited by southvillekiddy

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9 minutes ago, pongo88 said:

You make it sound as though Millwall is an average to poor team. Yes, the club is mid table but it’s only 5 points behind City. Millwall’s recent form under new manager Gary Rowett is better than City’s with 12 points from the last 6 matches. 

So Millwall have had a right shot in the arm from their new manager and their form is better than ours with our plodding man in charge, we are however,some how, still clinging on to a play off place investment next month could easily give us that shot in the arm we need to make the play offs and win them. Jan could also see us fall away as we have done in the past after failing to kick on from a good position.

Not likely to go for it imo, just go with what we have already and then cash in on any assets at the end of the season and.....go around again.

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17 minutes ago, southvillekiddy said:

Okay mate. I didn't make anything sound like anything. I didn't comment on Millwall's ability I said they were mid -table. There are no easy games in this League  but which was the more difficult game Fulham Away or Millwall at home?

Would you say Millwall are a better side than Fulham?

 

 

Based on  current form Fulham and Millwall are equal, with both achieving 12 points from the last 6 matches. It’s current form that counts not league position 

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22 hours ago, southvillekiddy said:

We beat the third placed team away then next game lose at home to a mid-table team. Unless we are able to stop doing this we do not deserve to be in the top flight. 

You would think this is a coaching issue? and a sports psychology issue? A good team can take the energy of an exciting win (at Fulham) and control it so as to avoid a banana skin in the next game

To be fair Millwall were in good form, just as good as Fulham and us so I wasn’t surprised it was a tough game, and Millwall played very well, last 6 games form guide is this, so not getting easier with Blackburn to play Saturday!

1 West Bromwich Albion 6 +12 18
2 Leeds United 6 +11 18
3 Blackburn Rovers 6 +4 15
4 Cardiff City 6 +4 13
5 Fulham 6 +4 12
6 Millwall 6 +3 12
7 Bristol City 6 +1 10
8 Brentford 6 +8 9

 

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28 minutes ago, mozo said:

I do worry that if we lose to an in form Blackburn, that's 3 defeats in 5... a bruising scenario.

Not as bad as losing 4 in 5, and still in top 6.......  Preston?

Edited by StGeorge

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1 hour ago, pongo88 said:

Based on  current form Fulham and Millwall are equal, with both achieving 12 points from the last 6 matches. It’s current form that counts not league position 

How do you explain Leeds and West Brom being 1st and 2nd if League position isn't important? Their "current" form has been consistent for 21 games. That's my main point. We're inconsistent, brilliant away, poor at home. Why? Can you explain it please. Maybe I didn't emphasise this sufficiently but it's our home form that is so disappointing. Looking at the season so far we could have been at least clear 3rd or challenging for 2nd if we had not lost or drawn at home to teams beneath us? 

Draws with:

Brum

Swans

Wigan

Middlesborough

Loss to:

Hull City

that represents 11 points lost which would have put us on 46 points, 3rd place on goal difference and miles clear of 4th..

I imagine many on here would agree that City are frequently disappointing at Home. This is a major issue for the Club if we are to progress.

Edited by southvillekiddy

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To put things into context we are currently 4th in the Championship in case no one had noticed.

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14 hours ago, southvillekiddy said:

How do you explain Leeds and West Brom being 1st and 2nd if League position isn't important? Their "current" form has been consistent for 21 games. That's my main point. We're inconsistent, brilliant away, poor at home. Why? Can you explain it please. Maybe I didn't emphasise this sufficiently but it's our home form that is so disappointing. Looking at the season so far we could have been at least clear 3rd or challenging for 2nd if we had not lost or drawn at home to teams beneath us? 

Draws with:

Brum

Swans

Wigan

Middlesborough

Loss to:

Hull City

that represents 11 points lost which would have put us on 46 points, 3rd place on goal difference and miles clear of 4th..

I imagine many on here would agree that City are frequently disappointing at Home. This is a major issue for the Club if we are to progress.

Err...

Birmingham- this was away.

Hull? Won 3-1 there.

Additionally, if we're going down that road a bit- Leeds lost at home to Swansea. West Brom drew away to Wigan just last night! 

Football- Higher ranked side beats lesser side? Doesn't work like that- this League less than ever!

West Brom also drew at home to Millwall and Reading...Leeds lost at Millwall.

That 11 points looks a bit less now.

Edited by Mr Popodopolous

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I say this regularly.

Our players, on their day, are good but they don't perform at their top level every week so if a couple are on an "off" day the team plays badly and looses - pretty obvious.

My argument is this. If the bulk of our players performed at their best week in week out they would not be at Bristol City they would be playing in the Prem. Only the "big" teams in the championship can attract and hold onto players who regularly perform to the levels ours do when on there game. Like it or not we are not one of the "big" teams so we end up with talented but inconsistent players.

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2 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Err...

Birmingham- this was away.

Hull? Won 3-1 there.

Additionally, if we're going down that road a bit- Leeds lost at home to Swansea. West Brom drew away to Wigan just last night! 

Football- Higher ranked side beats lesser side? Doesn't work like that- this League less than ever!

West Brom also drew at home to Millwall and Reading...Leeds lost at Millwall.

That 11 points looks a bit less now.

Thing is mate you are not addressing the big picture. Why have we struggled to establish a Home advantage under LJ presently but also stretching back into the past? There is a problem?

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1 minute ago, southvillekiddy said:

Thing is mate you are not addressing the big picture. Why have we struggled to establish a Home advantage under LJ presently but also stretching back into the past? There is a problem?

Counterattacking styles will play a role with that- much easier to do this when you don't or your game plan isn't centred around control of the ball, the game. Not that it's a catchall solution but it can help!

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"This is what always makes I wee about following City"

Are you the bugger sitting two rows in front of me, with his half-hourly trips to the lavvy every match?

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18 hours ago, southvillekiddy said:

Okay mate. I didn't make anything sound like anything. I didn't comment on Millwall's ability I said they were mid -table. There are no easy games in this League  but which was the more difficult game Fulham Away or Millwall at home?

Would you say Millwall are a better side than Fulham?

 

 

The big problem is this league just doesn't work like that. Surely we've been in it long enough to know that?

This is not a Bristol City problem, it happens to pretty much everyone in this league. That's not making excuses for it, it's just really important to know it's not exclusive to us. I see that because I cover the entire division, not just follow Bristol City around.

Believe me, it's incredibly difficult to back up good results over and over again. Only West Bromwich Albion and Leeds United have been able to do it and they are, without doubt, the best in the division. 

I have to point out, too, that we've only suffered back-to-back losses twice in 13 months. Not bad considering the "streaky Johnson" tag and suggests we're way more consistent than we give our own team credit for.

Edited by The Journalist
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4 minutes ago, The Journalist said:

The big problem is this league just doesn't work like that. Surely we've been in it long enough to know that?

This is not a Bristol City problem, it happens to pretty much everyone in this league. That's not making excuses for it, it's just really important to know it's not exclusive to us. I see that because I cover the entire division, not just follow Bristol City around.

Believe me, it's incredibly difficult to back up good results over and over again. Only West Bromwich Albion and Leeds United have been able to do it and they are, without doubt, the best in the division. 

I have to point out, too, that we've only suffered back-to-back losses twice in 13 months. Not bad considering the "streaky Johnson" tag.

Quite right- and even they aren't infallible! Leeds lost to Charlton, Millwall and Swansea this season e.g.

West Brom drew with Wigan albeit away, as well as at home- yes at home- vs Reading, Millwall and Barnsley.

Nature of the League.

Edited by Mr Popodopolous

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On 10/12/2019 at 22:41, southvillekiddy said:

Hope you are right mate because we are in an even better position this season than when we bottled getting big signings at Christmas two years ago.

I wonder what Ashton and Sir Steve are planning

Please not consolidation, consolidation, consolidation again, again.

Oh dear.

This again. 

Could we have spent the money in January 2018 better? Very much so!

Would be interested to see the financial workings, in line with FFP and in the knowledge that at that time, there was the very real risk at that time of in-season points deductions, or demotions from top 2 or top 6 for breaches and especially significant ones!

Edited by Mr Popodopolous

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2 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Oh dear.

This again. 

Could we have spent the money in January 2018 better? Very much so!

Would be interested to see the financial workings, in line with FFP and in the knowledge that at that time, there was the very real risk at that time of in-season points deductions, or demotions from top 2 or top 6 for breaches and especially significant ones!

You got evidence to support that view mate?

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2 hours ago, Red-Robbo said:

"This is what always makes I wee about following City"

Are you the bugger sitting two rows in front of me, with his half-hourly trips to the lavvy every match?

Got  I in one. Doh!

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7 minutes ago, southvillekiddy said:

You got evidence to support that view mate?

EFL's own rules actually. Which they haven't enforced correctly!! With benefit of hindsight etc- but one hell of a gamble to take.

The reason clubs submit accounts in season 3, projected ones, is ostensibly so that the EFL can have Past Year 1- Real accounts, Past Year 2- Real Accounts and Year 3- ie current season, Projected Accounts as submitted by the club. The whole principle behind the idea was so that clubs could be punished if necessary in the season that it takes place- and prevent some of the past nonsense of enforcement or lack of in different Leagues.

http://www.financialfairplay.co.uk/financial-fair-play-explained.php

http://www.financialfairplay.co.uk/latest-news/-profit-and-sustainability-ffp-tests-in-championship-2016-17

rule%20overview%2024.jpg

Above graphic from one of those articles.

The fact the EFL have not yet enforced these correctly, does not detract from the situation- or perceived situation- at the time. I dare say clubs had similar views! With a proper CEO though, these might have been enforced correctly at the time.

The projected accounts thing is on the EFL website- the only unclear aspect is whether it's to setup for the next season, or for the existing one.

Edited by Mr Popodopolous

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2 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Oh dear.

This again. 

Could we have spent the money in January 2018 better? Very much so!

Would be interested to see the financial workings, in line with FFP and in the knowledge that at that time, there was the very real risk at that time of in-season points deductions, or demotions from top 2 or top 6 for breaches and especially significant ones!

Yes. This again. How many seasons does a Championship team, even an ex-Prem Championship team get a genuine chance at achieving Promotion. Leeds have been trying for 9 years. Do you see them not going for it, finding a way to spend as much as it takes to return to the Prem? 

If we do what we did two years ago we will have become a selling Club

 

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5 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

EFL's own rules actually. Which they haven't enforced correctly!! With benefit of hindsight etc- but one hell of a gamble to take.

The reason clubs submit accounts in season 3, projected ones, is ostensibly so that the EFL can have Past Year 1- Real accounts, Past Year 2- Real Accounts and Year 3- ie current season, Projected Accounts as submitted by the club. The whole principle behind the idea was so that clubs could be punished if necessary in the season that it takes place- and prevent some of the past nonsense of enforcement or lack of in different Leagues.

http://www.financialfairplay.co.uk/financial-fair-play-explained.php

http://www.financialfairplay.co.uk/latest-news/-profit-and-sustainability-ffp-tests-in-championship-2016-17

rule%20overview%2024.jpg

Above graphic from one of those articles.

The fact the EFL have not yet enforced these correctly, does not detract from the situation- or perceived situation- at the time. I dare say clubs had similar views! With a proper CEO though, these might have been enforced correctly at the time.

The projected accounts thing is on the EFL website- the only unclear aspect is whether it's to setup for the next season, or for the existing one.

What you haven't done is show the Bristol City FC figures in relation to the EFL rules. But like I've said before there's always a way round all this (Look at Manchester City) if there is a will to achieve.

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7 minutes ago, southvillekiddy said:

Yes. This again. How many seasons does a Championship team, even an ex-Prem Championship team get a genuine chance at achieving Promotion. Leeds have been trying for 9 years. Do you see them not going for it, finding a way to spend as much as it takes to return to the Prem? 

If we do what we did two years ago we will have become a selling Club

 

I just don't believe spending much more thasn we did in Jan 2018 was feasible- the accounts, combined with the regulations show this to be the case.

Leeds...they sell players regularly and have a turnover of £40m in most recent accounts- they're ahead of us in that respect. However this January I do believe that we can spend more freely! We can also hold onto our better players more readily- but we can't go nuts just yet.

In further answer to your other point, I refer you to the following- with some definitions as well.

T basically means the existing season- dunno why it's called T! Trade date?

Quote

1.1.12 T means the Club’s Accounting Reference Period ending in the year in which assessment pursuant to Rules 2.2 to 2.9 takes place, and:

(a) T-1 means the Club’s Accounting Reference Period immediately preceding T;

(b) T-2 means the Club’s Accounting Reference Period immediately preceding T-1;

(c) T+1 means the Club’s Accounting Reference Period immediately following T; and

(d) T+2 means the Club’s Accounting Reference Period immediately following T+1.

Quote

2 Profitability and Sustainability

2.1 Rules 2.2 to 2.9 shall apply with effect from Season 2016/17.

2.2 Each Club shall by 1 March in each Season submit to the Executive:

2.2.1 copies of its Annual Accounts for T-1 (and T-2 if these have not previously been submitted to the Executive) together with copies of the directors’ report(s) and auditor’s report(s) on those accounts;

2.2.2 its estimated profit and loss account and balance sheet for T which shall:

(a) be prepared in all material respects in a format similar to the Club’s Annual Accounts; and

(b) be based on the latest information available to the Club and be, to the best of the Club’s knowledge and belief, an accurate estimate as at the time of preparation of future financial performance; and

2.2.3 if Rule 2.5 applies to the Club, the calculation of its aggregated Adjusted Earnings Before Tax for T, T-1 and T-2 in a form approved by the Executive from time to time and which as at the date of these Rules is set out in Appendix 1.

 

Edited by Mr Popodopolous

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2 hours ago, The Journalist said:

The big problem is this league just doesn't work like that. Surely we've been in it long enough to know that?

This is not a Bristol City problem, it happens to pretty much everyone in this league. That's not making excuses for it, it's just really important to know it's not exclusive to us. I see that because I cover the entire division, not just follow Bristol City around.

Believe me, it's incredibly difficult to back up good results over and over again. Only West Bromwich Albion and Leeds United have been able to do it and they are, without doubt, the best in the division. 

I have to point out, too, that we've only suffered back-to-back losses twice in 13 months. Not bad considering the "streaky Johnson" tag and suggests we're way more consistent than we give our own team credit for.

Okay mate.But you would have thought we would have found a way to win regularly at home because we show we are a good side in our Away performance. I'm not saying it's easy. But we are the major Club in the 6th city

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3 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

I just don't believe spending much more thasn we did in Jan 2018 was feasible- the accounts, combined with the regulations show this to be the case.

Leeds...they sell players regularly and have a turnover of £40m in most recent accounts- they're ahead of us in that respect. However this January I do believe that we can spend more freely! We can also hold onto our better players more readily- but we can't go nuts just yet.

In further answer to your other point, I refer you to the following- with some definitions as well.

T basically means the existing season- dunno why it's called T! Trade date?

 

thanks mate. I really hope the Club follow what you have said is possible this time.

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5 minutes ago, southvillekiddy said:

What you haven't done is show the Bristol City FC figures in relation to the EFL rules. But like I've said before there's always a way round all this (Look at Manchester City) if there is a will to achieve.

Man City may yet get punished- I certainly  hope so. That is an old case reopened as opposed to live at the time.

Our figures...I'd have to dig them out but as per Kieran Maguire we were £2-3m off a breach. Then again, had the cash we spent in January been put towards one of the names we wanted who knows how it pans out!

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ANyway, back onto the football. LJ, as per Bristol Post.

Quote

"I feel like we enjoy playing at home, in terms of the crowd and atmosphere. I don’t feel like there’s any problem with that. Where that potentially comes into play is the opposition’s mindset. Probably us being more comfortable without the ball. You’ve got to remember we’ve had to recycle this team probably six or seven times. We are always losing an attribute then gaining an attribute. For example when you’ve got Webster in the side, you expect to control the ball.

"When we had Webster and Dasilva down that side we were statistically the best in the division in terms of keeping the ball down that channel. Therefore, a different game is suited to those attributes, to build the play, to take possession of the ball, because while you’ve got the ball the opposition can’t score.  Whereas if you look at the flip side of that going away to Fulham, you’ve got to go ‘okay they’ve probably got better individuals than us’ therefore our team structure becomes more important and we win the game without the ball.

"Where we dominated Fulham without the ball away from home, Millwall did exactly the same to us. When huddersfield tried that against us we blitzed them apart. Each individual games is tough.  Where it suits us away from home is the energy we have on the counter. It’s very hard to create a counter situation at home when teams are coming here and seeing a point as a good result.

"Obviously it’s the second loss of the season at home and we hope to turn that around again and start a new run at home. I know what you mean, it’s definitely not an anxiety from our point of view. It’s just a case of being better whether we upgrade the quality or improve in our ball possession."

I think he raises some good points, but I don#t fully agree of course. Absolutely agree that we need to improve the ball possession, especially at home!

Our possession stats at home though have not been fantastic for some time, taken as an average- so I'm not sure. However he is right in terms of the ball and control- playing away from home without is definitely easier than what we saw Tuesday! Assuming Sky stats are pretty accurate though and I don't think we were overall a dominant in possession side at home last season either- even with Webster and DaSilva- certainly was a mixed bag IMO. Point as good result? Yes they can do, but again mixed bag.

I make it 54.29% based on that average- which was good and certainly better than last season- but not quite mindblowing! More importantly, the narrative that teams come to park the bus at us is a bit shaky- some did, some had a mixed approach and some were surprisingly open!

Edited by Mr Popodopolous

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